Close Combat Series :: View topic - 9/11 Nine Years Later

through

[^/[Print]\]

Close Combat Series -> The Mess

#1: 9/11 Nine Years Later Author: mooxe,

Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:55 pm
—
This event has probably affected in some way everyone at this forum.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5474006551011489413#

It's still unbelievable to watch. Knowing but not seeing that 3000 people are dieing before your eyes is disturbing.

#2: Re: 9/11 Nine Years Later Author: US_Brake, Location: USA

Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:09 pm
—
The NY Times has an article that helps shed light on the so called Ground Zero Mosque Controversy. As an American Vet I am proud that I served a country that has religious freedom. I find it an insult that Americans are attacking our citizens rights to worship God in Lower Manhattan or anywhere else.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/11/nyregion/11religion.html?ref=us

This war, like all wars is bad for everyone. It's frustrating to think, of how much better the world would be in 2010, if this war had never happened.

#3: Re: 9/11 Nine Years Later Author: Priapus,

Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:38 pm
—

US_Brake wrote (View Post):

This war, like all wars is bad for everyone. It's frustrating to think, of how much better the world would be in 2010, if this war had never happened.

I prefer a relatively Taliban free Afghanistan and a relatively democratic Iraq compared to the former regimes.

#4: Re: 9/11 Nine Years Later Author: vonB,

Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:40 am
—
Well, I remember to the second where I was and what I was doing when the news broke, and I suspect I always will.

I too would like a relatively free world, but I am not convinced we are any more free or safe as a result of the consequences and subsequent reactions. Quite the contrary. Would we be any safer if we had not invaded Iraq or Afghanistan? In my opinion, yes. Has it been worth the terror, bloodshed, and pain? Not in my opinion. Were there other ways? I believe so.

There are nutcases and extremists on both sides of the fence. An eye for an eye just makes people blind to paraphrase Ghandi, and you cannot justify your own behaviour on the basis of others' behaviour.

Freedom is something you have to give. You cannot 'take' it, only take it away.

So while we remember the horrors of that dreadful day, be careful not to fall into the trap of thinking that you have a divine right to judge others, and force them into situations which you in their place would object to.

Just as I refuse to condemn all Americans on the basis that some religious idiot wants to burn the Koran, I refuse to condemn all Muslims because of their equally idiotic and dangerous extremists. To do so would make me no better than them...

#5: Re: 9/11 Nine Years Later Author: Therion,

Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:04 am
—
What's wrong about burning Koran? It's not like there's any possibility of the world running out of copies of that book.

#6: Re: 9/11 Nine Years Later Author: US_Brake, Location: USA

Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:25 am
—
If Bin Laden had chosen to build hospitals in Afghanistan instead of sparking a third world war the Planet might be a better place. It bothers me that a small group of men could cause such a worldwide catastrophe.

John Patrick O'Neill (February 6, 1952 – September 11, 2001)

FBI Agent John O'Neill was the hot on the trail of Bin Laden after the Cole Bombing. He may have prevented or disrupted the 9/11 attacks, however, he was judged too aggressive in his job and was removed from the investigation by the Bush Administration. John O'Neill left the FBI and took the job of head of security at the WTC becouse he was convinced that Al Q was planning another attack. He's stayed in the building helping victims until the building fell, ending his remarkable life.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_P._O'Neill

#7: Re: 9/11 Nine Years Later Author: kawasaky, Location: Zagreb, Hrvatska

Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:35 pm
—

Therion wrote (View Post):

What's wrong about burning Koran? It's not like there's any possibility of the world running out of copies of that book.

What starts with the burning of books, usually finishes with the burning of people.

If I was an American I'd surely want that Islamic centre to be built near the G.0, as well as I'd like that the ridicilous bill of laws regarding the "natiojnal security", invoked after the 911 attack, ro be revoked.
For one reason only.
[Let's say for the sake of argument that the WHOLE 911 "job" was exclusively done by the I]slamic extemists who did the attack didn't strike only economic centre and the people working there, but the "western" civilization as a whole. Therefore introduction of any law that abrogates human and/or citizen's rights, or creation of the particular "atmosphere" by certain groups represents the victory for the architects of 911 crime.

#8: Re: 9/11 Nine Years Later Author: vonB,

Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:54 pm
—

Quote:

What's wrong about burning Koran?

Perhaps nothing, if you burn your own private copy in the privacy of your own home, in private, but better to read it and gain more knowledge which you can then use to improve your understanding.

But why broadcast the intention to burn the Koran? What do you think he was trying achieve? Global peace and understanding?

#9: Re: 9/11 Nine Years Later Author: US_Brake, Location: USA

Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:59 pm
—
Parallels can be drawn on the Chalie Manson Family Murders in 1969. Manson wanted to spark a race war. He used his minions to do the dirty work. After murdering their victims they smeared black panther slogans with the victims blood.

Did Mansen get his wish? No, No Race war happened. However, after that, the people who already dislike the counter-culture now associated the counter-culture with Manson. The anti-hippies now had a hippy poster child, Charles Manson, and the war on drugs (war on counter-culture) driven by fear and hysteria was on.

#10: Re: 9/11 Nine Years Later Author: dj,

Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:34 am
—

Priapus wrote (View Post):

US_Brake wrote (View Post):

This war, like all wars is bad for everyone. It's frustrating to think, of how much better the world would be in 2010, if this war had never happened.

I prefer a relatively Taliban free Afghanistan and a relatively democratic Iraq compared to the former regimes.

Remember, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11...no matter how many times Bush/Cheney kept trying to spin it around. Their former cabinet said they were trying to make a case for war with Iraq almost immediately after taking office.

Not worth it considering Bush took his eye off the ball and Osama escaped, then only kept a tiny force in Afganistan as they got ready for invading Iraq instead.

#11: Re: 9/11 Nine Years Later Author: US_Brake, Location: USA

Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:00 am
—
Iraq was not responsible for 9/11, but the invasion of Iraq in 2003 could not have happened without 9/11.

If 9/11 would not have happened, Bush would not have had public support to Invade Iraq. Bush fueled Americans' fear and anger then created a false crisis "WMD" along with all the other lies, to justify his invasion.

#12: Re: 9/11 Nine Years Later Author: vonB,

Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:29 am
—

Quote:

but the invasion of Iraq in 2003 could not have happened without 9/11.

Nor the intimidating "homeland Security" Agenda. If you have not noticed how significant the move towards adjusting what was generally considered to be public 'rights', then you should take a careful look, and question the establishment justifications (which you should always do anyway in order to try and preserve your 'freedoms'). Once you can be detained indefinately without evidence based on the opinion(s) of whatever 'security' services the State has at its disposal, you are on the way to totalitarianism. You think Democracy is an unassailable right? Think again, especially at the history of how Democracy was achieved.

I know there are plenty of Conspiracy Theories around, and I as a rule am sceptical of Conspiracy Theories (as they are by definition difficult or impossible to substantiate), but reviewing the reportage of the events of 9/11 and the surrounding intelligence, there are some things which do not seem to add up in my opinion, and the 'Authorities' seem to be remarkably reluctant to provide compelling answers, even to the point of witholding or destroying information and evidence. Do you think the 'Media' made open, unbiased reportage? I am not convinced.

Is anyone here satisfied that the authorities have told the 'truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth'? If not, then you have no alternative but to ask, why not?...

#13: Re: 9/11 Nine Years Later Author: Stwa,

Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:53 am
—
The Koran is not number 1 on my burn list. But it is still on the list.

But, if I do burn it, it won't be in private, I will probably burn it on the courthouse steps. After all, if the Mexicans can burn American flags down there, then surely burning a Koran, is no beeg deal, if you know what I mean.

Its amazing to me, how some people sugar coat the fact that they are actually 'truthers'.

Regarding the wars, I wonder if we could have a poll that would enumerate a list of reasons why these wars are being conducted.

We could include the previous Gulf War as well. Does anyone have what they believe is solid reason for US involvement. I might be beneficial to review the bidding. For instance, I doubt seriously, these wars, are simply being fought to test out the new weapons systems and methods. But you never know. Sometimes I think GW just wanted to kick some ass.

My guess, is no matter what the list of reasons, the items are probably all good reasons to go to war, all things considered.

#14: Re: 9/11 Nine Years Later Author: Therion,

Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:07 pm
—
I think WBC is a pretty cool guy. eh burns koarn and doesnt afraid of anything

#15: Re: 9/11 Nine Years Later Author: vonB,

Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:14 pm
—
I thought twice about posting this, but somebody has to put the points...

Quote:

After all, if the Mexicans can burn American flags down there, then surely burning a Koran, is no beeg deal, if you know what I mean.

Nope, I don't know what you mean. Justifying your own actions based on what others do is suspect logic. Obviously many disagree. On that logic, you are 'free' to commit any crimes you like. In my opinion, it is just an immature testosterone driven retaliation motivation which has more to do with posturing than achieving anything constructive. Nothing to do with reason.

Example: on 9/11, a bunch of nutters flew planes into the WTC buildings, and rubbed out thousands of innocent people. Does that give you the justification to take a couple of planes and fly them into some buildings and rub out thousands of innocent people in return? That's the logic. Eye for an eye and all that.

So some nutters burn the American Flag. Give them more American Flags to burn. Let them burn British Flags, or all the Flags of the world. I really don't care. They are just Flags. Bits of painted material.

And when has starting a war ever been right? You have to be very careful of your justifications.

Take Iraq. There can be no question that the suffering and death caused by the war was immensely larger than would have been experienced if we had not, to combatants and non combatants alike. So how do you justify such slaughter, for slaughter is what it was. We slaughtered them in their thousands, probably hundreds of thousands.

Ah, it was to 'free' the Iraqi's. Well, that is reasonably compelling as an argument, but unfortunately, what can never be reconciled is whether alternatives could have been used (and they were proposed) which would achieved a similar intent, without the slaughter. That you have to live with. Just say to the Iraqi families whose children were maimed and killed that it was 'for their own good', and pat yourselves on the back for being the 'good guys'.

I accept that the situation in Iraq in terms of freedom from oppressive regimes is better than it was. Does that justify the war? Well, it might, IF it was the only way to achieve it. Was it? We will never know, but I accuse those who went to war for not trying, and I am satisfied they are consequently criminals.

So, I'm sorry, but some of you are not going to like the criticism. Tough shit. Is the world a safer or more dangerous place as a result of the actions we have taken? Not the actions they have taken, but what we have done. We are responsible for that, not them. To try and place the blame on them is back to the same broken logic.

It seems that the species either cannot, or refuses to learn from history. Did America achieve Independance because some foreign power intervened? No, it was the Americans (white settlers for the most part) who made it happen (we won't go into the issue of the native Americans). Should we help others to achieve 'freedom'? Of course. That's not the issue. It's all in the how. That is what we have to justify.

Do the ends justify the means, or the means justify the ends? Or is it neither? Ultimately, what we do defines us, not what others do.

#16: Re: 9/11 Nine Years Later Author: papa_whisky,

Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:56 pm
—
All good points VonB, sadly others just don't get it.

They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up.

Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984)

#17: Re: 9/11 Nine Years Later Author: Therion,

Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:50 pm
—

vonB wrote (View Post):

I thought twice about posting this, but somebody has to put the points...

Quote:

After all, if the Mexicans can burn American flags down there, then surely burning a Koran, is no beeg deal, if you know what I mean.

Actually, the mere fact that people get seriously butthurt about burning a special magical item or drawing a cartoon, is a good reason to do it as often as possible.

vonB wrote (View Post):

And when has starting a war ever been right? You have to be very careful of your justifications.

Take Iraq. There can be no question that the suffering and death caused by the war was immensely larger than would have been experienced if we had not, to combatants and non combatants alike. So how do you justify such slaughter, for slaughter is what it was. We slaughtered them in their thousands, probably hundreds of thousands.

Ah, it was to 'free' the Iraqi's. Well, that is reasonably compelling as an argument, but unfortunately, what can never be reconciled is whether alternatives could have been used (and they were proposed) which would achieved a similar intent, without the slaughter. That you have to live with. Just say to the Iraqi families whose children were maimed and killed that it was 'for their own good', and pat yourselves on the back for being the 'good guys'.

I accept that the situation in Iraq in terms of freedom from oppressive regimes is better than it was. Does that justify the war? Well, it might, IF it was the only way to achieve it. Was it? We will never know, but I accuse those who went to war for not trying, and I am satisfied they are consequently criminals.

The guys that did the whole Iraq war thing should spend rest of their lives in prison. But no, politicians, judges, leaders of big companies, all that powergrabbing scum don't have to be held accountable for their actions.

#18: Re: 9/11 Nine Years Later Author: Sapa,

Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:23 pm
—
And i feel for the people in Afghanistan who had to pay the price for this tragedy....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_of_the_War_in_Afghanistan_(2001%E2%80%93present)

#19: Re: 9/11 Nine Years Later Author: Sapa,

Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:34 pm
—
And if this statistics is acurate..well..i really dont know what to say... Crying or Very sad

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/

#20: Re: 9/11 Nine Years Later Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:31 pm
—

vonB wrote (View Post):

Well, I remember to the second where I was and what I was doing when the news broke, and I suspect I always will.

Freedom is something you have to give. You cannot 'take' it, only take it away.

I find that to be completely inaccurate or am I misunderstanding the point?

Freedom is something you have to want in order for it to be achieved.
Democracy will never work in Iraq because most people don't want it and the others wont fight for it.

I say burn the Koran and I like the proposed law in France to ban Muslim Veils.

As for Sapa's poor body count I can't have any remorse for so called innocent people who died when these are the same people who won't stand up to Terrorists or the government who either supports it,or just can't grasp the idea of making life better for their own people.

#21: Re: 9/11 Nine Years Later Author: Andreus,

Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:52 pm
—
Better life from our point of view.
Did we asked them if they wanted that? It's just like when missionaires went to the newly discovered America to spread the word...
Playing God and deciding what is better or not should be reserved to God itself, if it exists...

#22: Re: 9/11 Nine Years Later Author: Sapa,

Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:58 pm
—
Poor body count?...is the children in Afghanistan / Iraq responsible for the 9/11 attack!!?? Shocked

#23: Re: 9/11 Nine Years Later Author: Therion,

Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:15 pm
—

platoon_michael wrote (View Post):

As for Sapa's poor body count I can't have any remorse for so called innocent people who died when these are the same people who won't stand up to Terrorists or the government who either supports it,or just can't grasp the idea of making life better for their own people.

How is it different from the rest of the world? People can't stand up to their government even when it's in countries where risk of having any serious trouble for doing that is minimal.
Also, let's not forget that the mess that is Iraq is a result of removing their government. Maybe they had a very good reason to not be interested in toppling Saddam?

#24: Re: 9/11 Nine Years Later Author: Stwa,

Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:18 pm
—
It's a multinational forum, so I really do understand. Most people don't realize that setting stuff on fire down and the courthouse is part of your 1st ammendment right to free speech here in the good ole USA. The Supreme Court has ruled on this many times down through the centuries.

So if Mexicans light up a few flags, they are just expressing themselves. (i.e. ITS NOT A CRIME). By the same token, if someone wants to light up the Koran, or the Bible, or an autographed picture of Lady Gaga, its OK. Have fun with it.

War is ineveitable, so the trick is, (and I am sure everyone will agree), is to be sure the war is fought somewhere else. While no one wants innocent people to suffer, there are plenty on non-innocents around to take the credit. The civil wars in Iraq are in themselves a case in point. Had they all just burnt the Koran down at the courthouse instead of burning each other, the outcome would have been a whole lot cleaner. But, they just couldn't find it in themselves to do that, could they.

#25: Re: 9/11 Nine Years Later Author: Andreus,

Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:29 pm
—

Stwa wrote (View Post):

So if Mexicans light up a few flags, they are just expressing themselves. (i.e. ITS NOT A CRIME). By the same token, if someone wants to light up the Koran, or the Bible, or an autographed picture of Lady Gaga, its OK. Have fun with it.

LOL
Can't stop laughing dude, great point!

#26: Re: 9/11 Nine Years Later Author: Stwa,

Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:55 pm
—
Oh, I almost forgot ... I am still hoping folks will try to put that list together of the reasons the USA has gone to war in Iraq (twice) and Afghanastan.

You don't need to list the obvious reasons, that are force fed to the public. Wars are generally started for much simpler reasons, and my guess is these wars are no exception.

Remember the Trojan War, or the Spanish Armada, or any of the Wars of Reformation. Or anytime Serbia mentions a consolidated new country in the Balkans, or how about the War of Spanish Succession, that was a doozy, eh?

GW Bush was from Texas. I too am a native Texan, even though I live in Arizona now. Being a southern State, many Texans, like many Southerners, try their best to identify with the old 19th century mindset. Many still have the outrageous accents, they handle firearms on a daily basis, and if you THREATEN THEIR FAMILY, then you are asking for it. You see, its really pretty simple.

#27: Re: 9/11 Nine Years Later Author: Therion,

Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:05 pm
—

Stwa wrote (View Post):

War is ineveitable, so the trick is, (and I am sure everyone will agree), is to be sure the war is fought somewhere else. While no one wants innocent people to suffer, there are plenty on non-innocents around to take the credit. The civil wars in Iraq are in themselves a case in point. Had they all just burnt the Koran down at the courthouse instead of burning each other, the outcome would have been a whole lot cleaner. But, they just couldn't find it in themselves to do that, could they.

They wouldn't kill each other if USA wouldn't remove the government that was stopping them from doing that.
Anyway, I'd love to see all that people who make that kind of decisions - decisions that innocents have to be sacrificed, lead by example and kill themselves. If they decide that their life is an acceptable price for the cause, I can accept their decision.

#28: Re: 9/11 Nine Years Later Author: CC_CO,

Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:37 pm
—
Yes it is very disturbing indeed.

Also, the fact that so many people afterwise have had to pay with their lives; NY, iraq, afghanistan, pakistan...soldiers, rebells and civilians. Perhaps more than one million lives has been lost after 911, as a direct consequence of that sad event. Just sad and stupidity of humanity.

Personally I dont beliefe the official story, -that being anti-american or not to others, dont want to sound anti-american, but there it is, just dont belive the story. Simply too many things in it that dosent make any sense at all.

I have seen a video on youtube where the firefighters from NY -are building a case in order to get some of the closed files opened...trying to use the freedom of information-act -or something like that?

911 and the wars created after it - is just sad and stupid.

Oh, I also hope that the workers who cleaned up ground zero, are treated with the best mediccare as possible. Looks like some of them was not helped that much at all. In my opinion these people deserve help the rest of their lives.

#29: Re: 9/11 Nine Years Later Author: Sapa,

Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:52 am
—
30 Norwegians is blowing up the Swedish parlament with 3000 people , the leader Trond from Narvik (Norway), has the command post in Åbo, Finland. The Swedes, supported by Nato and EU is bombing the hell out of Finland for 9 Years, but Trond is still hiding in the deep forrest.

The Swedish army (whats left of it) invades Denmark because the father of the leader of Sweden didnt want to finnish the war when Denmark invades (Skåne) a part of Sweden, 10 years earlier, because of the huge stocks of beer, but never found any....

Haaalleeeluljaaa!

Mats

#30: Re: 9/11 Nine Years Later Author: Sapa,

Posted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:15 am
—
and at home the Swedes has problems with their new leader because he wants the people of his country to have healthcare payed buy the goverment...

I think he is a communist....

#31: Re: 9/11 Nine Years Later Author: dj,

Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:20 pm
—

US_Brake wrote (View Post):

Iraq was not responsible for 9/11, but the invasion of Iraq in 2003 could not have happened without 9/11.

If 9/11 would not have happened, Bush would not have had public support to Invade Iraq. Bush fueled Americans' fear and anger then created a false crisis "WMD" along with all the other lies, to justify his invasion.

Yes precisely. Bush/Cheney and their cronies were peddling a pack of lies to justify the invasion. ClusterFux "News" 24/7 tried to link Iraqi intelligence for planning 9/11 and a host of other propaganda. Then after they got exposed for the WMD issue and the uranium powder from Niger being a hoax as well...they spun it around to being a war against terror instead.

I can't believe people actually believed the Sh*t they were peddling.

It's about hearts and minds, and propaganda. Even the threat of burning Korans made international news and was a recruitment bonanza for fundamentalists. There is a pool of 1 billion Muslims. The West can not and should not get baited into a war of religion because that's what the fundamentalists want. They still use the Crusades as an anti-Western talking point to help drive recruitment. So it's asinine to assume burning the Koran will somehow extract revenge for Muslims building a Mosque near Ground Zero or for 9/11 itself. The people that attacked us were civilian militants...not a sovereign nation, not even an official religious sect. The hijackers were not welcome in their own country.

The righties are hell-bent on exploiting the anti-Muslim and xenophobist sheep out there to score political points. Even Newt whom complained about Bill Clinton getting a bj from Lewinski...while he himself was cheating on his wife...said that Democrats are as dangerous to America as terrorists.

#32: Re: 9/11 Nine Years Later Author: Stwa,

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:58 pm
—
Yet another post, that goes the mile to point out all the BS the Bush Aministration was spewing for justifying the wars to the American people.

I want posters like this to step up to plate and enumerate the real reasons we went to war. Since, most people, seem to have a keen sense of the BS and the propaganda and can point out why we did not go to war. (i.e. WMD's).

Please, enlighten us, WHY DID the US go to war with Iraq (twice) and Afghanastan?

Surely, there is some underlying reason?

#33: Re: 9/11 Nine Years Later Author: 7A_Woulf, Location: Sweden

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:11 pm
—
Oil....................

#34: Re: 9/11 Nine Years Later Author: Stwa,

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 4:29 pm
—
Well, I am no expert, but I am glad we have at least one reason on the table ... OIL ... hmm ...

OIL, I think, might explain the first Gulf War, but I am not sure if it explains the second Gulf War, or the war in Afghanistan. But I could be wrong.

I know shortly after the conclusion of the first Gulf War, gasoline at the pump in my town, was less than a buck a gallon. Milk cost more than gasoline then, but milk costs more than gasoline now.

Shortly after the first Gulf War, SUV production and sales just boomed across America. Its not like anyone really needs a 4 ton vehicle to pick up groceries, or drop their kids at a soccer game. Besides SUV sales continue, even now, with Mercedes and BMW, joining the fray.

If OIL, is a reason, it sounds like a good reason to me. But I still think, it is a complicated reason, and I feel that people here can scratch their heads, and arrive at much simpler, and easier to understand reasons for these wars.

#35: Re: 9/11 Nine Years Later Author: kawasaky, Location: Zagreb, Hrvatska

Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:18 pm
—

Quote:

In 1998, Dick Cheney, now US vice-president but then chief executive of a major oil services company, remarked: "I cannot think of a time when we have had a region emerge as suddenly to become as strategically significant as the Caspian." But the oil and gas there is worthless until it is moved. The only route which makes both political and economic sense is through Afghanistan.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/oil.html

#36: Re: 9/11 Nine Years Later Author: Stwa,

Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:19 pm
—
Hmm ... another voice for OIL ... good article too ... very interesting.

Its always an amazement to me that people are genuinely astonished that they have "discovered" a link between Texas politicians and the OIL business. YouTube is littered, and I mean littered to the max, with such discoveries. As it stands now there are probably more maps of the future Middle East as their are of future Arizona.

It is all very interesting, and there are more pipeline projects than you can count on both hands. The Russians, Chinese, Indians, Iranians, Turks, Georgians, Pakistans, and Khazistans; my Gosh, what a complicated morass, of plot, theater, and characters.

Its only a guess, but I will bet a paycheck, GW Bush did not pay attention during most of those meetings with the Pentagon and the Cabinet. GW doesn't have the attention span for all this planning, despite how fun it must be for everyone.

Furthermore, describing the evolving geo-politcal landscape as it releates to the earths natural resources (over the past 3 decades), does not in itself answer why these wars were started in the first place. After all Clinton did not start anything, did he, nor did Reagan.

#37: Re: 9/11 Nine Years Later Author: Treeburst,

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:37 am
—
Nine years later the truth is still there in front of everyone who wants to look. The US is not ultimately governed by people and parties interested in the US people, but by a select group of generationally rich who owe allegience to no country, only see the world as a pool of resources for their exploitation, and 'ordinary' people as stupid slaves, who sweat and toil to keep them rich. It isn't 'Right' or 'Left', 'Republican' vs 'Democrat' etc., it's the Elites and the slaves.

9/11 was a set-up, orchestrated to further the interests of the nameless faces behind Wall Street, the Bank of England and a handful of people who would become even more mega-rich by starting a war that could never end - the 'War on Terror'. How ridiculous. You might as well declare a 'War on Deception'. 'Terrorism' is a word first coined by Hitler to justify the militarism that resulted in WWII, and was used after the burning of the Reichstag - a 'false flag' attack blamed on a jewish 'terrorist'.

How sad that most people have swallowed the lies hook, line and sinker. The world is now entering the worst depression, and soon, the worst and longest World War in history, which will result in the greatest transfer of wealth from the world's people to the richest 0.1%. Just like what happened in WWI.

Just to a short study on the history of the families who are becoming richer by the second as a result of both the 'War on Terror' and the 'Greatest Depression'. Think about families such as the Clintons, Bushes, Harrimans, Soros', Morgans etc. etc. etc.

Wars are all about fights over who owns and gets to profit from resources and people's labor. They are very rarely honorable, and always hideously costly to ordinary folks who pay with their blood and labor. The most recent 'honorable war' was WWII, and only from the Allies point of view. It is obvious that Hitler and Tojo et al needed to be stopped. But follow the money and you come back to the same families who funded, and profited from it!

If you believe that a bunch of muslim fanatics who had very rudimentary flight training were able to hijack 3 airliners and fly them into three of the most important buildings in the US, which involved some of the most demanding flying skills, without being intercepted by the (normally) most vigilant and technologically advanced military in the world, when they had been known to be off their designated flight paths for an hour with no communication, especially when the attack was anticipated years in advance and a response plan developed for, you are more gullible than you ought to be.

I am so sad that 3000 people died in 9/11, I am just as sad at the over 1 million people who have died in Iraq and Afghanistan since, and the hundreds of thousands of ruined young lives of military people from the (so called) 'Coallition of the Willing' as a result.

But I reserve the right and responsibility to think clearly and soberly about the reasons behind it and the results from it.

#38: Re: 9/11 Nine Years Later Author: southern_land,

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:39 pm
—

Treeburst wrote (View Post):

Nine years later the truth is still there in front of everyone who wants to look. The US is not ultimately governed by people and parties interested in the US people, but by a select group of generationally rich who owe allegience to no country, only see the world as a pool of resources for their exploitation, and 'ordinary' people as stupid slaves, who sweat and toil to keep them rich. It isn't 'Right' or 'Left', 'Republican' vs 'Democrat' etc., it's the Elites and the slaves.

9/11 was a set-up, orchestrated to further the interests of the nameless faces behind Wall Street, the Bank of England and a handful of people who would become even more mega-rich by starting a war that could never end - the 'War on Terror'. How ridiculous. You might as well declare a 'War on Deception'. 'Terrorism' is a word first coined by Hitler to justify the militarism that resulted in WWII, and was used after the burning of the Reichstag - a 'false flag' attack blamed on a jewish 'terrorist'.

How sad that most people have swallowed the lies hook, line and sinker. The world is now entering the worst depression, and soon, the worst and longest World War in history, which will result in the greatest transfer of wealth from the world's people to the richest 0.1%. Just like what happened in WWI.

Just to a short study on the history of the families who are becoming richer by the second as a result of both the 'War on Terror' and the 'Greatest Depression'. Think about families such as the Clintons, Bushes, Harrimans, Soros', Morgans etc. etc. etc.

Wars are all about fights over who owns and gets to profit from resources and people's labor. They are very rarely honorable, and always hideously costly to ordinary folks who pay with their blood and labor. The most recent 'honorable war' was WWII, and only from the Allies point of view. It is obvious that Hitler and Tojo et al needed to be stopped. But follow the money and you come back to the same families who funded, and profited from it!

If you believe that a bunch of muslim fanatics who had very rudimentary flight training were able to hijack 3 airliners and fly them into three of the most important buildings in the US, which involved some of the most demanding flying skills, without being intercepted by the (normally) most vigilant and technologically advanced military in the world, when they had been known to be off their designated flight paths for an hour with no communication, especially when the attack was anticipated years in advance and a response plan developed for, you are more gullible than you ought to be.

I am so sad that 3000 people died in 9/11, I am just as sad at the over 1 million people who have died in Iraq and Afghanistan since, and the hundreds of thousands of ruined young lives of military people from the (so called) 'Coallition of the Willing' as a result.

But I reserve the right and responsibility to think clearly and soberly about the reasons behind it and the results from it.

Yep, we have left the age of democracy and are transiting to Feudal corpocracy

"I hereby declare, on oath,

that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, national state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen;

that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of Coca cola against all enemies, foreign, domestic and corporate; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same;

that I will bear arms on behalf of the CocaCola when required by the my superiors;

that I will perform full combatant service in the Armed Forces of the corporation when required;

that I will perform work of corporate importance under mid level management direction when required; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me C.E.O."

#39: Re: 9/11 Nine Years Later Author: vonB,

Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 12:51 am
—
There's no money for the sick,
there's no money for the old.
There's no money for the unemployed, at least that what we're told.
But there's money enough for rich men to play their money games,
and there's money enough for distant wars, with very distant names

Money God we worship you again...

Maybe a tad poetic, but it illustrates a truth.

How is it that Banks have crashed (playing with your money), and bailed out (with yet more of your money). Nations say they are short of money, so where is all this money coming from that the IMF have to bail out Nations? Billions and billions and billions of it readily available to lend at extortionate rates of interest, payed for by your taxes while Services and Welfare have to be cut. How did they get all this money? No shortage of trillions to pay for wars and military machines. Now you (in the USA) can be detained indefinately without evidence, without legal representation or recourse to the law, because they 'think' you might be a terrorist, and it's not much better in the UK. Mmmm...

Why invade Iraq? Simple. Power. Power to improve global well being?

What they do not want is an educated, enlightened, and free thinking population who are prepared to think and question, as the scam they are perpetrating would collapse like a house of cards. Ignore it at your peril. There is plenty of intelligence available to those that seek, but they are very good at the business of propoganda and misdirection.

There are evil people who are prepared to sacrifice the lives of anyone in their 'cause', but do you for a moment believe that you, or your Nation's integrity, security, or sovereignty are in any way threatened by these people? if you do, then you have fallen for the lie, and will hand over your liberty on the back of it. The crime of the century is being played out before your eyes, but you have to look away from your TV, iPod, Or whatever distraction that fills up your waking hours in order to have a chance to see it.

No bloody revolution is needed. All you have to do is reject the lies. You cannot overturn them overnight, but their agenda is based on passive acquiescence. All you have to do is ignore it and buy into the propganda, and they will continue to get thier way.

Is it all doom and gloom? No, I do not think so. There are too many of us with intelligence, and more and more all the time. Could they ultimately win? Again, I do not think so, though it could be a very painful priocess. They do not care about your pain, only their gain. It is as old as time, only the instruments of power have changed, but they are not stupid, but very very subtle.

As to war? It's the biggest money making exploit known to man, and that is all they are interested in. Selling arms to both sides proves that it is not about right and wrong. Just power. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. It's a defect of Homo Sapiens. That's all.

#40: Re: 9/11 Nine Years Later Author: CC_CO,

Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:48 pm
—
Veterans Today
Tuesday, March 13th, 2012
9/11: The Official Account of the Pentagon Attack is a Fantasy

An article that is worth reading. Videos are worth watching.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/03/13/911-the-official-account-of-the-pentagon-attack-is-a-fantasy/

Close Combat Series -> The Mess

output generated using printer-friendly topic mod. All times are GMT

Page 1 of 1