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#1: Russian Uniform Colours Author: Sapa,

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:59 am
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Hi!

I have a question to this picture, i suppose that the Russian(Sovjet) army of 1944 used brown uniforms.On this picture there is an elitunit in Viborg June 1944 (some kind of Recon-Assault team) and i think this uniform could be some kind of green colour.Is there any kind soul who could confirm that?

Cheers Mats

#2: Author: Antifa,

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:06 pm
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I found this:

apparently they had green wool officer kitels

it was on this page:

http://www.tridentmilitary.com/Reproduction-uniforms/Soviet-uniforms.html

#3: Author: Dima,

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:38 pm
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they r recons wearing Summer Camo Dot suit(issued from 1943). At least one of them (foreground-rite) wears bast-type Summer Camo suit(issued from 1941).

picture is not of good quality but u can still notice PPSh and PPS SMGs.The guy in the second line(most rite) carries MP.40.

clips r diferent as well. At least one still carry PPSh with drum(second from rite).
it looks like other prefer SMGs with mags.

#4: Author: Sapa,

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:32 am
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...and the question is still...is the camo uniform green?

Mats Rolling Eyes

#5: Author: Dima,

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:37 am
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Quote:

i suppose that the Russian(Sovjet) army of 1944 used brown uniforms

RA never used brown uniform. There was 2 types of uniforms. Before 1943 and after 1943. Both of them were khaki.

Sapa wrote:

...and the question is still...is the camo uniform green?
Mats Rolling Eyes

They wear standart Red Army uniform and green pattern camo suits on top of it. Such suits were issueds to recon battalions. Sometimes snipers and forward observers used them as well tho there was special sniper camo suit.

Assault units of Special Assault Brigades wore diferent camo suits. So they r not

Quote:

some kind of Recon-Assault team

but normal divisional recoinassance squad.

#6: Author: kwp,

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:51 pm
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I found this color plate........

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#7: Author: Sapa,

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:00 am
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THANKYOU!

Mats Smile

#8: Author: Sokol, Location: Pietari :-)

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 12:37 pm
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I found the same photo, but with better quality (from Military chronicle series book "Assaulting on Karelian Wall")
Seems these recons wear some derivative of such summer camouflage dress: http://www.rkka.ru/uniform/files/arm9.htm

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#9: Author: Dima,

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:03 pm
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much better:).

1st guy from left carries something that looks pretty much like StG.44.
2nd guy from left carries PPS-43.
same as 4th from left.
rite man in 2nd row doesn't carry MP.40 but it looks more like PPS-42.

#10: Author: Sokol, Location: Pietari :-)

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:25 pm
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Dima wrote:

1st guy from left carries something that looks pretty much like StG.44.

Looks like a Sturmgewehr. But looks quite small for StG, isn't it?:

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#11: Author: Dima,

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:28 pm
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Quote:

Looks like a Sturmgewehr. But looks quite small for StG, isn't it?:

yes, at lest smaller than StG.44 but definetly bigger than PPS;).

Maybe it was early versions like MKb-42 or so...

#12: Author: Sokol, Location: Pietari :-)

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:57 pm
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Don't hear about combat using of Mkb-42 at Eastern front. Is it possible in theory?

Also found additional two shots from mentioned book, both taken at Viipuri (Vyborg)

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#13: Author: Dima,

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:08 pm
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Quote:

Don't hear about combat using of Mkb-42 at Eastern front. Is it possible in theory?

i've read that they were issued to SS units in Leningrad area.

very interesting photos.

Interesting to c proportion of PPS and PPSh smgs...Other fronts had contrary proportion:).
And u c they still use only drums for PPSh. Can't c any PPSh with magazin.

#14: Author: Sapa,

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 3:03 pm
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Sokol wrote:

Don't hear about combat using of Mkb-42 at Eastern front. Is it possible in theory?

Also found additional two shots from mentioned book, both taken at Viipuri (Vyborg)

Thankyou! Got the same book (if you can call 64 pages a book) but my scanner crashed trying to scan the pictures, great pictures btw!

The problem for me is that it is in Russian, will try to ask a nice lady at my work to translate some of it.If you could maybe fix picture 68 on page 37 (with the IS-2 tanks) i will be real happy! Smile

Cheers Mats

#15: Author: Sokol, Location: Pietari :-)

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:37 pm
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No probs, i have whole book (or magazine? no matter... Smile

) scanned in quite good quality. So if you really need translation, i can made OCR from scans, then using auto-translator program done rough english translation. Furthermore is not so hard to make corrections in text. Just say, what information you need.
I put IS-2 photo, what you requested, here (in max. quality, 684 Kb):

http://sokol-2000.hotbox.ru/is-2.jpg

P.S.. I found this great site only couple weeks ago, and now really enjoyed to play some mods. Many thanks for Karelia mod - really greatest stuff : Cool

#16: Author: Sapa,

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:07 am
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Sokol wrote:

No probs, i have whole book (or magazine? no matter... Smile

Many thanks for this! I have seen that these books is an whole serie of different battles and it is a real shame they havent done it in English.

If you are so kind offering your help (thankyou) there is one more thing...on page 13, there is a list of the units starting the offensive on June 10, from the 21st Army, if you have the time i would really have it translated so i can compare it with my Battlegroups made for Karelia 2.You dont have to do it, just asking...

Many many thanks!

Cheers Mats Smile

#17: Author: Sokol, Location: Pietari :-)

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:14 pm
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This is table of distribution and grouping artillery of 21 Army. Wait a bit, i will translate it for you.
Maybe you need another extraction from the text with the names and equipment of 21 Army units at beginning of operation? I think this will be usefully.

#18: Author: Sapa,

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:56 pm
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Yes Please! I dont think the Artillery info is to any big use for me.(Just a bunch of guns trowing hundreds of grenades at the Finns)

Thanks for your help!

Mats Smile

#19: Author: Sokol, Location: Pietari :-)

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:16 pm
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Ok, here is unit's list of 21 and 23 Army, involved in combat 9-10 june 1944:

21 Army:

Infantry:

30 gv.sk (45 gv.sd, 63 gv.sd, 64 gv.sd)
97 sk (178 sd, 358 sd, 381 sd)
109 sk (72 sd, 108 sd, 286 sd)

22 UR + reinforce units

Armor:

31 otd.gv.ttpp
260 otd.gv.ttpp (KV-1, KV-1s)
185 otp (T-34/76)
226 otp (T-34/76)
98 otp (T-34/76)
185 tp
351 gv.tsap (SU-152)
396 gv.tsap (ISU-152)
1222 sap (SU-76M)
------------------------
Total 157 tanks and assault guns (43 heavy tanks, 62 medium tanks, 31 heavy assault guns, 21 light assault guns)

23 Army:

Infantry:

115 sk (10 sd, 92 sd, 142 sd)
98 sk (177 sd, 281 sd, 372 sd)

17 UR + reinforce units

Armor:

46 otd.gv.ttpp (KV-1, KV-1s, Mk.IV Churchill IV) - 21 heavy tanks
98 sap (SU-76M) - 21 light assault guns

Main armor fist was in reserve, here list of units, which involved in battles during first days of operation:

1st Red Banner tbr (T-34/76 + ?)
220 tbr (T-26)
152 tbr
27 tp (T-34)
26 gv.ttpp (IS-2)
27 gv.ttpp (IS-2)
394 otd.gv.tsap (SU-152 or ISU-152)
397 otd.gv.tsap (SU-152 or ISU-152)
952 sap (SU-76M)
1235 sap (SU-76M)
--------------------------
Total 200 tanks (42 heavy, 90 medium, 68 light) and 96 assault guns (42 heavy, 54 light)

Abbreviations:
sk - strelkoviy korpus - rifle korps
sd - strelkovaya diviziya - rifle division
ur - strongpoint region
tp - tankoviy polk - tank regiment
otp - otdel'niy tankoviy polk - separate tank regiment
gv.ttpp - gvardeyskiy tyazheliy tankoviy polk proryva - guards heavy tank regiment of breaktrough
otd.gv.ttpp - otdel'niy gvardeyskiy tyazheliy tankoviy polk proryva - separate guards heavy tank regiment of breaktrough
tbr - tankovaya brigada - tank brigade
sap - samokhodno-artilleriyskiy polk - self-propelled artillery regiment
tsap - tyazheliy samokhodno-artilleriyskiy polk - heavy self-propelled artillery regiment
otd.gv.tsap - otdel'niy gvardeyskiy tyazheliy samokhodno-artilleriyskiy polk - separate guards heavy self-propelled artillery regiment

#20: Author: Dima,

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:59 pm
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Quote:

31 otd.gv.ttpp

KV-85.

Quote:

26 gv.ttpp (IS-2)

not correct.
had KV-1S and Churchills.

Quote:

220 tbr (T-26)

T-26 and T-34.

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