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Close Combat Series -> Close Combat Wacht am Rhein

#21: Author: ANZAC_Tack, Location: Australia

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:40 am
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I agree in hindsight, Mr tank here, thanks for the email explaining your actions, is not totally to blame, the tester who leaked information AND beta copies is to blame, that person has f*^%ed my life. Mr tank mearly posted it to make it public(a silly thing, similar to something i did with desktop,so i underastand ok)

I sincerly hope that tester,or even worse...has legal action taken against them. Not since IgotMilk(correct me if i got wrong name,was it mikex5?) posted Assino's map from CCIV beta have i seen such uproah. everything is gone...GONE... months of effort of mine, all lost....

some may say, i told u so, but i think its that type of person who joined S3T Just to do this Crime. its nothing but a crime literally, its copy right.

yeah im pissed, more then i ever have been.somebody's got to pay.

#22: Author: Mr_Tank,

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:03 pm
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Therion wrote:

Yeah, but on the other hand, downloading a leaked beta and then posting about it publicly instead of quietly notifying the company is very, very, very wrong too.

I'm pretty sure the company knew about the leak before I did.
I'm not advertising for everybody to go get the beta version. You probably wont like it at the present stage. I has returned to CCV (which I like CoI and CCIV do have a perfectly legal version of).
What I wanted were to inform a group of hard core CC players that the game were on it's way. Until my post not many were sure of that.
Same reason I havent shared my version with anybody.
That being said I do feel bad for the many people who now are under suspicion.

#23: Author: flick,

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:43 pm
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If they can't get the AI right, I'm not interested. It's 2008 for god's sake!

edit : Whoops, didn't read the other posts.

#24: Author: Therion,

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:26 pm
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Speaking of 2008...
I'm not playing many modern games, so I have a question:
Do many modern games have a decent AI - i.e. one that can actually use tactics?

#25: Author: Mr_Tank,

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:52 pm
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Therion wrote:

Speaking of 2008...
I'm not playing many modern games, so I have a question:
Do many modern games have a decent AI - i.e. one that can actually use tactics?

I played most versions of the Command & Conquer and Age of Empires series. I have never had any problems defeating a single ai opponent. So I normally play against severel ai controlled players at once, or in some cases give the ai an advantage of some kind. A human player is almost always more challenging.
I think an ai's biggest problem is that it can't adapt to its opponent's style, it always plays its own game, this even goes for the very best chess computers.
If anyone has examples of other, please correct me.

#26: Author: Therion,

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:18 pm
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IMO the main problem with CC AI is that it usually doesn't use even basic tactics presented in bootcamps which leads to ineffective defence and complete destruction in attack.

#27: Author: flick,

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:00 pm
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The best AI/vetbmod I ever played, was the vetmod for basic CCV. Double the enemy squads, double the mortar.

And the squads were (in non-urban levels) were coded as tanks and such.

As for AI, I found the old panzer general games, very tough. But I still think it's a joke, that they want us to pay 30/40/50 quid for a game where, enemy tanks get confused by bridges!!!!

*face palm smack*

#28: Author: Therion,

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:33 pm
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flick wrote:

The best AI/vetbmod I ever played, was the vetmod for basic CCV. Double the enemy squads, double the mortar.

Double the enemy squads? In what way?

#29: Author: flick,

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:08 pm
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1.There seemed to be atleast double the number of men, in every type of squad and motar team

2. They were super agressive, you could suddenly have 40 or so, soldats CHARGE you from out of knowhere.

3. If you didn't have prepared MG positions, you'd just be SWAMPED and end up being chopped up in close combat...because the 'crawl of death' didn't work on them, unless you had serious fire-power being thrown at them.

In maps with few houses, the vehical coded infantry really give you a harf time..when was the last time you heard the above examples against the AI?!

Lord knows, how cool this vetmod would be, if grafted onto the stalingrad mods.

#30: Author: Therion,

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:42 pm
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flick wrote:

1.There seemed to be atleast double the number of men, in every type of squad and motar team

So, basically, the enemy was cheating?

flick wrote:

2. They were super agressive, you could suddenly have 40 or so, soldats CHARGE you from out of knowhere.

Is it Eastern Front or what? 2/3 of these soldiers should be giving suppressive fire, while the rest should approach the target in cover in order to assault.

flick wrote:

I wonder what's the deal with that 'crawl of death'. It seems that the AI is focusing on short term self-preservation of soldiers instead of doing the duty.
IMO there should be more versatile AI with varying approaches of individual soldiers and squads.

flick wrote:

In maps with few houses, the vehical coded infantry really give you a harf time..when was the last time you heard the above examples against the AI?!

Never. And I prefer to not see them in CC, because they sound like they were taken from a cheap RTS game.

#31: Author: flick,

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:16 am
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Hey, I was just reporting what I played.

I do agree mind, it's a cheap bolt-on of a mod, but it makes it unrealistic in a totally new way, lol.

Quote:

flick wrote:
2. They were super agressive, you could suddenly have 40 or so, soldats CHARGE you from out of knowhere.

Is it Eastern Front or what? 2/3 of these soldiers should be giving suppressive fire, while the rest should approach the target in cover in order to assault.

I agree.

flick wrote:

Quote:

3. If you didn't have prepared MG positions, you'd just be SWAMPED and end up being chopped up in close combat...because the 'crawl of death' didn't work on them, unless you had serious fire-power being thrown at them.

I wonder what's the deal with that 'crawl of death'. It seems that the AI is focusing on short term self-preservation of soldiers instead of doing the duty.
IMO there should be more versatile AI with varying approaches of individual soldiers and squads.

It seems they hit the ground far too quickly, letting our guys run rings around them.

I'll try and find the mod, it's set in standard ccv campaign, would make more sense if it was the russian front.

#32: Author: flick,

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:24 am
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Have a go with it, it's been ages since I have, and may of gone over the top, with my praise/drunken rants

http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=4011

Description: Quoted from readme.txt, "Using the excellent editing tools from Sgt_Wilson, Cpl_Filth and The Blood!, 6th-Army and I have made three mods for Close Combat 5. Two of these, GermVeteran and USVeteran are especially for Human player against the AI. The third is intended for Multiplayer combined with Sgt_Wilson's CCReq editor (highly recommended). The purpose of the AI mods is to make the AI a tougher opponent, without "cheating" with historical facts. The purpose of the multiplayer mod is to make all the new vehicles available for multiplayer. " Unzip these files into your /Config Manager/Plugins folder to play.
Version: Filesize: 9.90 MB
Added on: 21-Mar-2008 Downloads: 524

#33: Author: squadleader_id, Location: Soerabaja

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:17 am
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Therion wrote:

Speaking of 2008...
I'm not playing many modern games, so I have a question:
Do many modern games have a decent AI - i.e. one that can actually use tactics?

Some AI of modern games perform much better and realistically because besides rushing for designated VLs or defending designated VLs...some scripted action is also thrown in. So sometimes you see better tank-infantry coordination, flanking attacks, decent fighting withdrawal tactics etc.

With CC, besides the obvious VLs as objectives...the scripted thing is missing. So if say a platoon of Infantry (controlled by the AI) sees a VL...it just rushes in...sometimes piece meal!
With a scripted behaviour...they would execute the attack better (1-2 squads laying down suppressing fire while the other squad attempting a flanking move on the VL maybe). Same with tanks...it lacks scripted AI behaviour.

With Vetmods...it's a bit harder to beat because the numerically boosted infantry coded as vehicles Infantry will usually run to a VL together...and not suicide piece meal attacks.

BTW, flick...the problem with Infantry coded as vehicles is in urban areas...vetmods code Infantry as vehicles for both urban and rural maps...you can't switch back and forth this coding.

#34: Author: Therion,

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:00 am
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squadleader_id wrote:

So, basically a working CC AI would need:
1. Scripted behaviour.
2. Enchanced morale with taking in account various approaches to combat (like self-preservation, contempt for death, etc.).
3. Working pathing.

#35: Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:12 am
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AI, take a look at this:
http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2848

There are more such threads, I have not time to fined em now, -> exit to beach

Edit, back: here is one more about what CC AI may be capable of: http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2932

Last edited by AT_Stalky on Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:15 pm; edited 1 time in total

#36: Author: CSO_Linebacker,

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:01 am
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Just thinking that another consequence of this is likely to be that people in the community will likely not get invited to participate in the future releases...including the new engine. The bastard that leaked this has painted the entire community as people of low character and un-trustworthy. The developers will likely never take the chance of involving community members again.

#37: Author: RD_Thomas_Ross, Location: Pontiac Illinois

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:10 am
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CSO_Linebacker wrote:

Just thinking that another consequence of this is likely to be that people in the community will likely not get invited to participate in the future releases...including the new engine. The bastard that leaked this has painted the entire community as people of low character and un-trustworthy. The developers will likely never take the chance of involving community members again.

Absolutely right....I do this for the joy of being part of the team...not money...not recognition...nothing else....

You know who you are...come clean so the rest of us to get back to testing so we can get a quality product to the community.

#38: Author: Sapa,

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:15 am
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RD_Thomas_Ross wrote:

CSO_Linebacker wrote:

I agree about everything.So it means that we will have a lot of unpaid time to mode the games in the future.

Glad to see that you are back Mr Ross!! Razz

Mats

#39: Author: pvt_Grunt, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:17 am
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RD_Thomas_Ross wrote:

Absolutely right....I do this for the joy of being part of the team...not money...not recognition...nothing else....

Well not money... Crying or Very sad

but certainly recognition from us, thanks for your work, I just hope it's not for nothing Evil or Very Mad

Close Combat Series -> Close Combat Wacht am Rhein

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