Welcome to Close Combat Series
  Login or Register Home  ·  Downloads  ·  Forums  ·  Combat Camera  ·  Help  

  Survey
Do incapacitations count as a soldier's kills?

Yes
No



Results
Polls

Votes 1222
Comments: 1

  Shout Box!!

Only registered users can shout. Please login or create an account.

  Main Menu
Articles & News  
    Help
    Player`s News
    Site News
    Multiplayer
    Terrain Challenge
    Boot Camp
Community  
    Forums
    Downloads
    Combat Camera
    MOOXE @ Youtube
    Statistics
Members  
    Private Messages
    Your Account
    Logout

  Donations
Anonymous - $25.00
08/15/2022

Anonymous - $25.00
08/15/2022

Anonymous - $25.00
12/18/2021

Anonymous - $100.00
11/08/2021

Anonymous - $15.00
04/09/2021

Anonymous - $100.00
04/05/2021

Anonymous - $20.00
02/20/2021

Anonymous - $10.00
12/29/2020

Anonymous - $1.00
11/06/2020

ZAPPI4 - $20.00
10/10/2020

Find our site useful? Make a small donation to show your support.



Search for at
Close Combat Series Advanced Search

Search found 11 matches
Close Combat Series Forum Index
 
 
Author Message
  Topic: Historical realism mod :)
Jager

Replies: 166
Views: 228188

PostForum: Close Combat Gateway to Caen   Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:12 am   Subject: Re: Historical realism mod :)
Dima wrote (View Post):

looks like a drawing shows 135mm for these 6 screws?
normally I take the cast armor resistance as 15-25% less than the actual thickness depending on a country and time of production.


We should remember about that "cuff" of the sleeve which cover gun tube. Cuff is 30 mm thick but it is not applied to the mantlet it is pressed into it (see drawing 3). So one may assume that ring-shaped area around the gun tube is 135 mm.

I agree with your estimation of cast armour durability.

The toughest thing here is to calculate "effective mantlet thickness" cause it vary greatly. Do you have a trusted algorithm for such cases?
  Topic: Historical realism mod :)
Jager

Replies: 166
Views: 228188

PostForum: Close Combat Gateway to Caen   Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 3:10 pm   Subject: Re: Historical realism mod :)
Dima wrote (View Post):

Tiger didn't have cast armor and mantlet had up to 200mm thickness around a gun.


Can't agree here. This is common mistake routed from that people see the mantlet only from front side, but they don't realize how it looks from inside the turret. See pics applied. Mantlet is obviously cast. Hardest parts 150 mm are around coaxial MG port and bulb near sight ports. Main body is 140 and the weakest part is exactly around the gun (and scope).  Weakest because thinner edges are supported from behind by sloped 100 mm horisontal bars and vertical turret walls.

If we compare hull front, nose and turret front we will see that sloped hull front is about 102 mm, sloped nose plus spare tracks is about 115 mm and turret front differs totally from more than 200 mm on edges to 110 mm on sight port. Generally turret front is no less than 135 mm and if we summarize across whole area we'll get 140 mm " lowest average thickness". But this armor is cast and we should multiply to coefficient less than 1 to get the equivalent of rolled armour. This means that turret front vary from 120 mm (around gun) to 215 mm (on edges) in terms of rolled armour.
Maybe you need to recalculate tiger turret in the game according to this. But in sence of 6pdr penetration yes, turret is harder.
  Topic: Historical realism mod :)
Jager

Replies: 166
Views: 228188

PostForum: Close Combat Gateway to Caen   Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:37 pm   Subject: Re: Historical realism mod :)
Hi, Dima.

minimum chance vs Panther turret front at point blank range, no chance for hull armor.
minimum chance vs Tiger's hull front at point blank range, no chance for turret armor.

Do you mean both guns here?   Also rolled Tigers hull front seems to be more durable than cast mask with irregular thickness.
  Topic: Historical realism mod :)
Jager

Replies: 166
Views: 228188

PostForum: Close Combat Gateway to Caen   Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:28 pm   Subject: Re: Historical realism mod :)
Dima wrote (View Post):

17pdr - APC and APCBC as both were used that time because of different advantages and disadvantages.
6pdr - APCBC and APDS.


What disadvantages you mean? I know about APC crashes striking hard armour plate with high Brinnel number set up with some slope.
  Topic: Historical realism mod :)
Jager

Replies: 166
Views: 228188

PostForum: Close Combat Gateway to Caen   Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 5:36 pm   Subject: Re: Historical realism mod :)
Great!  Seems, most of technical aspects already implemented in right way. Waiting for you finishing the work.
What type of AP ammunition do you simulate for 17 Pounder APC or APCBC and why? AND for 6pdr also.
  Topic: Historical realism mod :)
Jager

Replies: 166
Views: 228188

PostForum: Close Combat Gateway to Caen   Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 1:51 pm   Subject: Re: Historical realism mod :)
Dima wrote (View Post):

It might a myth but I can't picture crew moving pak40 like that in CC Smile :
http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/540259-4/Pak+40
so it will remain immobile for me.


PaK40 is sitting on the line between mobile and immobile. If there is intended way to move it by crew, I will make it mobile for my playing. Hystorical realism Smile  BTW, will it be possible to tow it? Seems not.

Quote:

no, mortars still kill moving/running infantry reliably and you just need more bombs to kill guns and proned soldiers. 81mm mortar bombs didn't have enough HE to affect proned soldiers like artlllery shells, their main advantages were numbers and trajectory.


OK with this.

Quote:

?


The idea of my suggestion was that you should remember Tiger is far more vulnerable to 17pdr in frontal than Panther. Not only hull, but gun mask also but not so far. Hope you've done it this way. What type of ammo do you simulate for 17pdr,  APC or APCBC?

Quote:

there is no APDS for 17pdr in mod, why?
6pdr APDS were issued prior to Invasion.


Want to support you in that APDS dispersion discussion. All that I know about poor results for 17pdr APDS should be translated to the small brother. 6pdr  should demonstrate great dispersion for just moderate distances.
A very interesting testing results for 17pdr
http://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/us-firefly-17-pounder-vs-90mm-vs-76mm.285284/
  Topic: Historical realism mod :)
Jager

Replies: 166
Views: 228188

PostForum: Close Combat Gateway to Caen   Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 1:00 am   Subject: Re: Historical realism mod :)
Hi all!
It's great to see modding and rework on just released game! At one side this means that there are some points to improve))
To make it more realistic historically is an obvious way of improvement. I used to change Stalingrad Operation Circle, great mod but lacking of information about Russian BGs and other stuff. My work has been finished but hasn't been published though)))

Back to this mod, I have several suggestions.
1. Immobile PaK40 due to trails buried into a soil. Strongly convinced this is a myth, started by one of Russian authors and popular at VIF2NE, for example. Among lots of pictured gun positions I've never seen any with gun trails completely dug in. But there are a lot of pictures with PaK40 firing standing on a plain ground supported only by its own weight and two crew numbers hanging on trails. Or fired without trail tails placed into soil properly. Anyway, crews are able to solve the problem putting logs or something like under trail tails to prevent digging in. The gun with carriage isn't a feather though, but it could be replaced by crew members compared to 17-pounder that could not.

2. Don't you think that diminishing power of mortars isn't real historical improvement? Of course something should be done, because it's very frustrating to see my only ATG spotted after killing it's first tank and being put out of action by 4-5 "bombs" of miserable 2inch. But gun crew is still vulnerable to shells blasting behind and aside of the gun shield. Also in reality mortars were effective infantry instrument to slow and stop enemy infantry advance. So, mortar bombs should kill soldiers effectively.
I don't have the plan how to rebalance mortars to stop them being super antitank and antipersonnel weapon but facts above should be taken in account somehow.

3. 17 pounder story. Without any doubts this is most capable Allied gun in terms of armor piercing. With APCBC it is capable to deal with Panther at standard CC ranges ~200-300 meters in frontal projection also. And Tiger is more vulnerable here. I was surprised to receive burning tank after 2 shots from Firefly. Tiger stood at 40 degrees angle to the opponent. But after some investigation, I've realized that there is nothing strange here. And this difference between two German heavies should be reflected IMHO.

4. Available ammunition for guns. For 17 pounder APDS based on the 6pdr APDS design was made available in June 1944 with the first ammunition being filled for service in July. During 1944 only 37000 APDS had been produced compared to 510000 APCBC and 679000 APC (and 1,6 mln APC and APCBC on stock after 1943). Are you sure APDS should be available for every Firefly in July?  The same for 6pdr.
  Topic: Questions for pzjager about mod
Jager

Replies: 8
Views: 10988

PostForum: CC5 Stalingrad Operation Circle   Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:24 am   Subject: Re: Questions for pzjager about mod
Sapa, thanx for pix.

But would you explain next:
after hard ass-kicking enemy Battlegroup one day has zeroes in force pool almost for every team. I start feel myself very fine and wait for total enemy BG defeat. But next game turn surprisingly that @dead@ enemy BG has a lot of tanks, inf and gunz again!
And I never press them "Reinforce", cause there is no button "Reinforce".
How AI does decide how many units add to reinforce battlegroup?

And does it mean that there is no possibility to destroy any enemy BG at all?
  Topic: Questions for pzjager about mod
Jager

Replies: 8
Views: 10988

PostForum: CC5 Stalingrad Operation Circle   Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:44 pm   Subject: Re: Questions for pzjager about mod
Yes, I use this tool.
But there is only wich and how many units will be in pool if u start at specified date and difficulty level.

Maybe, I dont understand how does automatic reinforce work...
  Topic: Questions for pzjager about mod
Jager

Replies: 8
Views: 10988

PostForum: CC5 Stalingrad Operation Circle   Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:43 am   Subject: Questions for pzjager about mod
Hello, pzjager.

First of all big thanx for the work U did, seems it was a lot of.
Very interesting mod and the graphics is outstanding.

Have some questions.

1. In SOC I found some Bgroups from Soviet side, which never took part in that operation. I mean, for example, 16 Tank korps and some other. In reality there are other tank units and you can easily change uncorrect by changing names and BG icons.
Also I have data on types and amounts of tanks in Soviet armies. And there are some stranges in mod. Some tank BG are very strong, some have uncorrect tanks (Lees, Shermans). To my mind, changes in force pools for better historical realism will not affect on gameplay.
What do You think of it?

2. In both your mods there is no Reinforce buttons. But after hard chit-chat enemy battlegroup surprisingly apeears with fresh force pool instead of zeros. So all my work to weaken enemy unit was useless.
So how do AI decide when reinforce and how many teams add to weakened battlegroup. Wich adb file must be searched?
  Topic: Para tehnicheskih voprosov
Jager

Replies: 1
Views: 3681

PostForum: Russian Forum   Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:21 am   Subject: Para tehnicheskih voprosov
Hello, countrymen.

Need your professional advise.
Palying different mods, I used to meke some small "corrections", connetcted with historical part of the mod mostly.

So, I met some difficulties with Screen Graphics changing.
Explain, please, where to find number of picture of Bgroup commander "face". Seems that there is no column in Bgroups file with such number.

Second, on the campaign map screen on the top we can see the name of selected Bgroup. I change names in Bgroups.adb, but there is no changes in the game screen, all names still like before any changes. May be this names made as picture, but no the text, but I can't find pictures with Bgroup names in ScrnGadget file.

And maybe  different question. If I cannot reinforce come units (no such button) after some hard fightings AI perform reinforcing of exhausted units himself. How do AI decide the number of teams for reinforcing?
 
 
 
Page 1 of 1
Time synchronized with your computer time
Jump to:  




Forums ©





In August of 2004, Zappi, Homba, Bambam887, RedScorpion and MOOXE all pitched
in to create this Close Combat site. I would to thank all the people who have visited and
found this site to thier liking. I hope you had time to check out some of the great Close Combat
mods and our forums. I'd also like to thank all the members of our volunteer staff that have
helped over the years, and all our users that contributed to this site!