Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:38 pm Post subject: Squad Number Limits Limits my Interest
As long as the 15 squad limits per round is removed, I would return to the CCV: Stalingrad mod.
DO u believe that in Grain Lev, such impoirtant point form stopping German from advancing, the Russians will only send 15*(what 7 or guys max. 190men to defend?
On Fallen Fighter's Square such open space, sad not having Russian massive infrantry charging............
Thats been one of my big beefs with this mod. The german teams are all maxed out on numbers, morale and attributes, while the russians get smaller numbers (why???) poor morale and attributes.
IMHO since you cannot change the number of teams the Russians should get bigger teams, mortar sections (2 tubes per section) machinegun sections etc.
yeah this is why i lost interest in this mod, that and how weak T-34s are, i mean if they can ram tiger tanks and damage them and come out ok how come they can't take a shell.
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:17 pm Post subject: Re: Squad Number Limits Limits my Interest
Blitzkaiser wrote:
As long as the 15 squad limits per round is removed, I would return to the CCV: Stalingrad mod.
DO u believe that in Grain Lev, such impoirtant point form stopping German from advancing, the Russians will only send 15*(what 7 or guys max. 190men to defend?
On Fallen Fighter's Square such open space, sad not having Russian massive infrantry charging............
Question: I sthe 15 squad limit hard-coded?
All maps in every mode is always seperated by zone we don't fight in...
And yes I think you can't make more than 15 squad, but there is no limite in the number of soldier in a team (I think)...
Increasing the number of men per team has alot of disadvantages. They do not deploy properly, during a run fast command they would get terribly split up. Once split up they are more suseptible to mortars, morale failing, hitting the dit and crawling.. and other side effects. A modder can answer it better than I can. The 15 team limit is hardcoded.
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Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 1:56 am Post subject: the challenge
is to defend in depth, bring panzers into range and fire on masse. 1 on 1 is unwinnable.
more like 3 on 1.
love the AT rifles close, side shots. ATGs are useless at range(apart from well trained 76mm and 85mm) , and need command behind them.Mk4's and mk3J's chop me to pieces, even my beloved KVs have trouble 1 on 1.
trick is to 'train' the tanks for 2 to 3 days(its bloody hard) to keep them in reserve, firing at nothing, but it works! i had the KV BG, i sent them agains mk4s as green units, they got hammered lost 6 to 1, then after 3 days of fighting the tide turned, my elite KVs choped mk4s to pieces 8 to 1. the aiming, and reload speed improved majorly.
yes T34s do suck , especially the unsighted cheap ones(150M max range bites) again, training in the rear, try to hold germans long enough for counter attack is difficult. just hearing 3 or 4 t34s firing in distance MAY make germans attackers pause long enough....(thats where massed infantry may help as close attackers, draw them in....)
LOVE stalingrad, yes there are quite a few 7 man Opelchensi russian units, with molotovs ( LMGs on some) as conscript, IF trained again with commanders in the rear fight well,take out tanks and soldiers,guns if used properly.
in brief, training and time is the key to russian success(and supply), speed and aggression is germans.
The german teams are all maxed out on numbers, morale and attributes, while the russians get smaller numbers (why???) poor morale and attributes.
1. German PzGren/Mot.Shuetzen Gruppe had 12men on paper in September 1942. Inf.Gruppe had 10men.
Same time RA rifle squad had 9men on paper.
2. By september 13th germans had ~2:1 advantage in men in Stalingrad. Main soviet forces were gathered in the north sector (Rynok,etc) outside the mod area.
3. 62A was reserve army so it didn't have combat experience except some units.
In same time 6A was virtually the most experienced unit by that time.
4. Units that cross Volga after September 13th have 7men Squads mostly and average/good training/morale as those were units after the rest/refit.
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IMHO since you cannot change the number of teams the Russians should get bigger teams, mortar sections (2 tubes per section) machinegun sections etc.
u can do it easily using QClone.
tho according history germans had more mortars, MGs and bigger squads .
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yeah this is why i lost interest in this mod, that and how weak T-34s are,
T-34 were weak till some mid 1943. Armour was of v low quality, so even if 75mm didn't pen. armour, it caused internal damage wounding/killing crew even from >1000m. Cast turret side/rear could be pen. by 2cm/3.7cm shells from up to 100m distances.
So it wasn't necessary to pen. T-34 armour to KO it.
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i mean if they can ram tiger tanks and damage them and come out ok how come they can't take a shell.
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i mean if they can ram tiger tanks and damage them and come out ok how come they can't take a shell.
urban legend.
Yes and no. During the battle of Kursk It is known that Russian tanks with useless guns or turrets due to battle damage or partially killed crew would ram german tanks in an effort to block the traverse of their turrets/barrel. This would give their comrades the momentum to get in close enough for the kill. But it was an ad-hoc tactic with damaged tanks and usually had no happy ending for the tank/crew that sacrified themselfs.
During the battle of Kursk It is known that Russian tanks with useless guns or turrets due to battle damage or partially killed crew would ram german tanks in an effort to block the traverse of their turrets/barrel.
well, theoretically it is possible to damage tank that is of same or lesser weight than yers.
Practically that's virtually impossible to ram mobile tank.
Imo T-34 wouldnt really be able to do significant damage i.e. jam turret, immobilize PzVI as it was almost 2 times lighter. Plus most of germans tanx could avoid collision as they were faster offroad than T-34.
Btw do u have any sources that prove mass cases of ramming during the battle of Kursk? As i did't c any realiable proves but soviet propaganda.[/url]
well, theoretically it is possible to damage tank that is of same or lesser weight than yers.
Practically that's virtually impossible to ram mobile tank.
Imo T-34 wouldnt really be able to do significant damage i.e. jam turret, immobilize PzVI as it was almost 2 times lighter. Plus most of germans tanx could avoid collision as they were faster offroad than T-34.
Btw do u have any sources that prove mass cases of ramming during the battle of Kursk? As i did't c any realiable proves but soviet propaganda
You forget the Tiger was most valuable stationary as a stable gunplatform taking out targets at long range. While moving it was usually protected by a wig of lighter tanks like PzKpfwIV`s driving in front and to the sides of the Tiger. I`m talking about ad hoc actions by individual tankers. i never said it was a massively used tactic now did i?
And you really didn`t just say that German tanks are faster offroad then a T34 now did you? You DO know why the Germans build the Panther right?
I`m talking about ad hoc actions by individual tankers. i never said it was a massively used tactic now did i?
just wondered if anyone has any valid info about it. As no report from Kursk i;ve read mentioned it.
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And you really didn`t just say that German tanks are faster offroad then a T34 now did you?
i DO know that most of german tanx were faster offroad (especially in summer time) than T-34. And they DID have greater crusing range than T-34.
Things chnged slightly in mid-late 1943 when T-34 got new gearbox. That allowed it to have pretty same offroad speed as PzIII/IV had.
If u take Tiger or Panther in particulary, Panther was faster and Tiger had same offroad speed as T-34 with old gearbox.
just wondered if anyone has any valid info about it. As no report from Kursk i;ve read mentioned it.
All i remember it was a quote from a SS tankcommander who noticed it during a tankclash at or near Prochorovka.
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i DO know that most of german tanx were faster offroad (especially in summer time) than T-34. And they DID have greater crusing range than T-34.
Things chnged slightly in mid-late 1943 when T-34 got new gearbox. That allowed it to have pretty same offroad speed as PzIII/IV had.
If u take Tiger or Panther in particulary, Panther was faster and Tiger had same offroad speed as T-34 with old gearbox.
Tests were carried out in 1941-1943 with all the german, soviet and LL tanx. They were tested according same criterias and on same training grounds so average results r v objective.
Btw road speeds will be in favor to germans mostly as well if u compare T-34 with old gearbox.
thnx.
Still alot of propaganda and v few facts.
Btw of those few PzVIE destroyed during Kursk none felt victim to ramming. Same for PzVD.
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(Ramming have been a part of war for thousands of years (naval / etc) 31 Ton of steel coming at speed is a mighty mighty mighty projectile...
v true.
But with even 18km/h speed T-34 couldn't inflict much damage to PzVI.
It's like ramming Mercedes G-klasse with Mercedes E-klasse on 18km/h speed.
Quote:
"Characteristics of the T34.
The T-34 is faster, more maneuverable, has better cross-country mobility than our Pz.Kpfw.lll and IV.
Kubinka Polygon (summer 1941). Comparison tests of PzIIIG and T-34.
(T-34/PzIIIG).
"...1. Calculated max speed 51 / 55
2. Tests, max speed 48,5 / 69,4
3. Average offroad speed 14,5 / 20,8
5. Hill climbed 30* / 30
6. Ford 720 / 800
* - T-34 couldn't climb 30 degrees hill after the rain..."
If we take into account that by May 26 1942 simplified T-34 obr.41 was in production data can be in favor to PzIII even more.
So imo statement that T-34 is faster,blah,blah is at least doubtfull.
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The penetrating ability of its 7.62 cm cannon is superior to our 5 cm KwK. and the 7.5 cm KwK40.
i just can't understand this part.
KwK40 had far superior AP capabilities.
What 5cm KwK does he mean - L/42 or L/60? As L/60 had better AP rating than F-34 IIRC.
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Combating the T-34 with the 5 cm KwK tank gun is possible only at short ranges from the flank or rear, where it is important to achieve a hit as perpendicular to the surface as possible.
Quotation from german report after operation 'Blau':
"...B. Ammunition used and AP capabilities of shells.
...3. AP capabilities of long barreled 5-cm KwK L/60:
Panzergranate 38 (armor piercing model 3 vs Т-34:
Turret side and turret ring — up to 400m.
Turret front — up to 400m.
Hull front — ineffective, in some cases can penetrate drivers hatchet..."
Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 4:15 pm Post subject: Yeeeee
Ramming…
Basic Human Reaktions…
Law enforcement may ramm other cars in desperation to stop a “mad” driver or a bank robber or so, basic reaction to a desperate situation.
Mad drivers or desperate driver’s may ram to get away from Law enforcements, basic reaction when one is cornered.
Desperation, that not common in war is it… ?
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Qoute Dima:
v true.
But with even 18km/h speed T-34 couldn't inflict much damage to PzVI.
It's like ramming Mercedes G-klasse with Mercedes E-klasse on 18km/h speed.
End Qoute
Answer: Simple equation and mathematics really, a less mass (weight) may have more “weight” as it’s moving, and in this case at this speed the T34 “weight” is much much hevier then a VI…
At 7.5 km/h a T34 have the same "weight" as a Tiger 2 that stand still.....
Hit a T34 in VI side at 18 km/h .... No damage? Really?
Stalk
PS: Wonder how that Merceds woud look when hit in side btw, by 1 ton at 18 km/h. No Damage u say?? Really?
i'd say to survive is basic human reaction.
So imho crew would leave its damaged tank immediatly after damaged was sustained. After they bailed out and found out that tank didn't catch fire they could return back.
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Answer: Simple equation and mathematics really, a less mass may have more “weight” as it’s moving, and in this case at this speed the T34 “weight” is much much more then a VI…
That's physics actually. But yes from elementary course. And I guess u've meant 'impulse' by 'weight'.
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At 7.5 km/h a T34 have the same "weight" as a Tiger 2 that stand still.....
ok impulses r 232.5kN vs 231kN
Looks fine for now. So when T-34 moving at 7.5km/h speed collides with standing KT, it will just stop and KT will get 3.3km/h speed for moment of the collision.
But how to determine damages both vehicles sustain?
yes,
F1=k1x1.
F2=K2x2.
Now we just need to know KTs material and it's properties so we can determine deformation according collision speed and properties of T-34 material .
And something telling me that T-34 armour would just deform backward (like u know when car collides at stone wall) or crack.
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PS: Wonder how that Merceds woud look when hit in side btw, by 1 ton at 18 km/h. No Damage u say?? Really?
F=kx.
how one of my teachers liked to tell "every complicated problem has simple, obvious to everyone but in same time wrong solution"...
Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 7:59 pm Post subject: LOL
LOL!
Qoute Dima
Quote:
ok impulses r 232.5kN vs 231kN
Ye, so dint u know this when u start talk in this thread? Why did u say them things u have said if u know that?
(its not right figurs by the way, but... should be an impact energy value...)
Btw, that was 7.5 km/h, as the energy "weight" increases in square by speed, maybe you can ask your friend to do the math for 18 km/h, LOL and maybe he can tell you how that would turn out... No Damage? Really? Plz come back and "verify" this with an insult throghn in my face again... Pretending to have know it all along, and now marking my use of words..
Look here:
Dima:
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DIMA: Imo T-34 wouldnt really be able to do significant damage i.e. jam turret, immobilize PzVI as it was almost 2 times lighter.
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DIMA: During the battle of Kursk It is known that Russian tanks with useless guns or turrets due to battle damage or partially killed crew would ram german tanks in an effort to block the traverse of their turrets/barrel.
DIMA: well, theoretically it is possible to damage tank that is of same or lesser weight than yers.
1. So why did u wright that? If u had known the basic physics invoulved?
2. And WHAT THEORY WOULD THAT BE?
3. What about the mercedes? No damage? 1 ton at 18 km/h in the side? Ask you friend to calculate that for you... Guess you would not have witten that if u had known this before, But that funktion "F=kx." isnt the answer is it....
So if u know this from the start of this thread, what have u been blabbering about through out this thread? (have u got a little help maybe in physics? from someone??) Seen the light maybe? Opeend a book maybe?
I am truly happy for that, maybe now u can stop this noncens.
Yes, another 360.... faster then any tank turret can do it...
Stalky,
PS:
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Answer: Simple equation and mathematics really, a less mass may have more “weight” as it’s moving, and in this case at this speed the T34 “weight” is much much more then a VI…
Dima: That's physics actually. But yes from elementary course. And I guess u've meant 'impulse' by 'weight'.
PS LOL, Ohhh no I dint know... Not that it matters, but when u talk about weight or mass as it moves its NOT "impulse", its kinetic energy, ie: the energy it represent when a mass moves... But as I dont whant to look like a smart ass, I prefer to talk normal and say "weight" with the sitation marks around it.. Is that OK?
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In August of 2004, Zappi, Homba, Bambam887, RedScorpion and MOOXE all pitched
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guys max. 190men to defend?
.
.... No damage? Really?
