Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 3:15 pm Post subject: Afghanistan?
What are we really doing in Afghanistan? I'm starting to believe Bin-Laden is a computer generated person. If he is real, then the best way to catch hime would be to leave Afghanistan and then let him to resurface and nab him with covert ops.
In contrast to the Iraq war, Afghanistan is the place were intervention WAS justified. The Taliban were/are an international threat and the real perps behind 9/11. Saddam on the other hand, was a limp puppet, but he hated terrorists.
All things said and done, we have a problem now. Is it really an option to leave Iraq and/or Afghanistan in the middle of these operations? In the end, it has to be done, or else Vietnam 2 is on the way.
I hope the US diverts attention to the Taliban bastards in Afghanistan who terrorize the locals ,and probably pose an international threat. Leave Iraq, and hope things turn to 'normal', cause the presence of the US is the main reason for terror acts anyway.
Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 6:39 pm Post subject: Re: Afghanistan?
Pz_Meyer wrote:
What are we really doing in Afghanistan? I'm starting to believe Bin-Laden is a computer generated person. If he is real, then the best way to catch hime would be to leave Afghanistan and then let him to resurface and nab him with covert ops.
Islam is a sect that "we" have to consider as a religion
Thus, those who want to kill our civilisation have only one choice: Separate the "good" and the "bad". THe bad are islamists. And they have a chief called Bin Laden.
The "goods" ....just belong to a sect that free people have to fight. THe sect, not the people who are just ill.
Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 4:58 pm Post subject: Re: Afghanistan?
pzjager wrote:
Pz_Meyer wrote:
What are we really doing in Afghanistan? I'm starting to believe Bin-Laden is a computer generated person. If he is real, then the best way to catch hime would be to leave Afghanistan and then let him to resurface and nab him with covert ops.
Islam is a sect that "we" have to consider as a religion
Thus, those who want to kill our civilisation have only one choice: Separate the "good" and the "bad". THe bad are islamists. And they have a chief called Bin Laden.
The "goods" ....just belong to a sect that free people have to fight. THe sect, not the people who are just ill.
Cheers
Don't take this the wrong way, but I'm always curious to get a French man's opinion on religious topics. I've read some of France's policies concerning religion, and it's not always open minded anymore. Some religions getting taxed heavily.
On the whole, Europeans don't go to church anymore. I think England is down to 10% active churchgoers. American polls show 25% but people lie as to attending church once a week so the numbers are actually lower.
PJ
Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 6:15 pm Post subject: Re: Afghanistan?
Pz_Meyer wrote:
pzjager wrote:
Pz_Meyer wrote:
What are we really doing in Afghanistan? I'm starting to believe Bin-Laden is a computer generated person. If he is real, then the best way to catch hime would be to leave Afghanistan and then let him to resurface and nab him with covert ops.
Islam is a sect that "we" have to consider as a religion
Thus, those who want to kill our civilisation have only one choice: Separate the "good" and the "bad". THe bad are islamists. And they have a chief called Bin Laden.
The "goods" ....just belong to a sect that free people have to fight. THe sect, not the people who are just ill.
Cheers
Don't take this the wrong way, but I'm always curious to get a French man's opinion on religious topics. I've read some of France's policies concerning religion, and it's not always open minded anymore. Some religions getting taxed heavily.
On the whole, Europeans don't go to church anymore. I think England is down to 10% active churchgoers. American polls show 25% but people lie as to attending church once a week so the numbers are actually lower.
PJ
Hi,
What arer "Frenchs"? What you see in your newspapers or on the TV or what???
with no offense Pzjager, but, why do u call it a "sect", Islam is the second largest religion in the world (1 billion people), just after christianity (1.5 billion). So.. it s not a sect.and even that way, you should consider that christianity is splited betwen a large number of "sects" like catolics, anglicans, ...
What;s happening in Iraq is largely "sectarian" violence, meaning Muslims of different sects fighting each other. N Ireland was similar with catholics fighting protestants, both claiming to be christians.
Look at it this way, in both world wars we had Enlish and Germans, both predominantly catholic but killing each other in the name of the same god!!
Many governments are getting fed up with religion, they see most every conflict as one started by one religion against another, and always trying to play the political card at the same time. On top of that they think they are above reprehension due to their political ties and even their fame, they love being in the lime light!
France is one of the nations that see the trend and has done some political maneuvering and implementing of policies to keep religions in check. Most likely bacause of feeling some sort of threat.
with no offense Pzjager, but, why do u call it a "sect", Islam is the second largest religion in the world (1 billion people), just after christianity (1.5 billion). So.. it s not a sect.and even that way, you should consider that christianity is splited betwen a large number of "sects" like catolics, anglicans, ...
Hi,
Sorry, but I stay on my position. Islam is a sect for a lot of reasons but at least two are even more obvious:
1) In Islam, there is no separation butween the spiritual and all the other aspects of the life.
2) In Islam, if you quit your religion, you are condamned to death.
If this is not a sect, so what it is??
Cheers
PJ
P.S. The fact that they are 1 billion does not change anything
Sorry, but I stay on my position. Islam is a sect for a lot of reasons but at least two are even more obvious:
1) In Islam, there is no separation butween the spiritual and all the other aspects of the life.
2) In Islam, if you quit your religion, you are condamned to death.
If this is not a sect, so what it is??
Cheers
PJ
P.S. The fact that they are 1 billion does not change anything
Are you sure about those 2 points, PJ?
Umm...let's just get back to just enjoying our fave CC shall we
Sorry, but I stay on my position. Islam is a sect for a lot of reasons but at least two are even more obvious:
1) In Islam, there is no separation butween the spiritual and all the other aspects of the life.
2) In Islam, if you quit your religion, you are condamned to death.
If this is not a sect, so what it is??
Cheers
PJ
P.S. The fact that they are 1 billion does not change anything
Are you sure about those 2 points, PJ?
Umm...let's just get back to just enjoying our fave CC shall we
All religions have people taking stuff way to serious in one way or the other.
Atleast Taliban are honest and clear about their ideas and intentions
But than there is the question, who or what are the Taliban
Chef- " I just wanted to learn how to fucking cook man!"
Last edited by Pzt_Coyote on Sun May 11, 2008 11:21 am; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 11:11 am Post subject: Re: Afghanistan?
Pz_Meyer wrote:
What are we really doing in Afghanistan? I'm starting to believe Bin-Laden is a computer generated person. If he is real, then the best way to catch hime would be to leave Afghanistan and then let him to resurface and nab him with covert ops.
On October 4, 2001, it is believed that the Taliban covertly offered to turn bin Laden over to Pakistan for trial in an international tribunal that operated according to Islamic Sharia law. Just a reminder, bin Laden is a saudi citizen and also Saudi Arabia, Pakistan are close allies to USA.
Also Hamid Karzai was reported for his supposed consultant work for the infamous Union Oil Company of California aka Unocal a now defunct oil company; Unocal was one of the key players in the CentGas consortium, an attempt to build the Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline to run from the Caspian area, through Afghanistan and probably Pakistan, to the Indian Ocean. Another consultant to Unocal at that time was Zalmay Khalilzad, former US ambassador to Afghanistan then to Iraq and currently to the UN. In the 1980s CIA chief Bill Casey had revived the agency's practise of gaining intelligence from traveling businessmen. Marty Miller, one of Unocal's top executives, conducted negotiations in several Central Asian countries from 1995, and voluntarily provided information gained on these trips to the CIA's Houston station. In 1996 Unocal opened an office in Kandahar,
Afghanistan, while the Taliban were in the process of taking control of the country. Unocal seems to have had a deeper role. Intelligence "whistleblower" Julie Sirrs claimed that anti-Taliban leader Ahmad Shah Massoud told her he had "proof that Unocal had provided money
that helped the Taliban take Kabul [in 1996]". And French journalist Richard Labeviere said, referring to the later 1990s, "The CIA and Unocal's security forces ... provided military weapons and instructors to several Taleban militia[s]"
I think there are pre-requisites other than those mentioned in main stream media in understanding "what really is going on"
Afghanistan is the prototype of future Hegemonic housekeeping and out of area operations for NATO. It is also a testing ground for hybrid civilian-military forms of counterinsurgency. Also it is a test run, how to maintain peace with the most limited troop number imaginable.
Sorry, but I stay on my position. Islam is a sect for a lot of reasons but at least two are even more obvious:
1) In Islam, there is no separation butween the spiritual and all the other aspects of the life.
2) In Islam, if you quit your religion, you are condamned to death.
Same was with Catholicism before the separation of the church and the state was created.
pzjager wrote:
If this is not a sect, so what it is??
The difference between a sect and organised religion is that calling an organised religion sect offends more people .
In Islam, there is no separation butween the spiritual and all the other aspects of the life.
Is it sunday today? well, why dont we work?
I get your point, but the majority of islamic countires is secular like the rest of the world. Only because feudalism-like religion abuse exists, does not make all of them theocratic.
pzjager wrote:
2) In Islam, if you quit your religion, you are condamned to death.
wrong. But it is has become common practice by misinterpretation of the Koran.
pzjager wrote:
If this is not a sect, so what it is??
The third book-based religion in the line along with judaism and christianity.
pzjager wrote:
P.S. The fact that they are 1 billion does not change anything
not the quantity is important but the qualitiy of religion participation.
In christian countries we have mostly less than 40% religiously active people.
Also there is a drift between participation and christian wings. Accroding to Eurostat the participation rate is following this hierarchy orthodox, then catholic than protestant.( Note that without Poland, catholicism would fall to lower participation rate.) Ergo all are world religions and islam is arguably the strongest.
p.s. religious questions have little to do with the state Afghanistan is in.
Afghanistan is the prototype of future Hegemonic housekeeping and out of area operations for NATO. It is also a testing ground for hybrid civilian-military forms of counterinsurgency. Also it is a test run, how to maintain peace with the most limited troop number imaginable.
it's been said that in actuality that a oil pipe line running from iraq thru Ghanistan to the caspain is more the reason for being there.
it's been said that in actuality that a oil pipe line running from iraq thru Ghanistan to the caspain is more the reason for being there.
well according to this line of argument, any war is based on the MIK* theory of Eisenhower and the ressources doctrine of Kissinger. (i.e. " the oil in the middle east is too important to leave it in the hands of the Arabs)
*MIK = military industrial complex
--------
the only problem with this argument is that i cannot account for peacekeeping operations all over the world and most recently the KFOR and SFOR operations in the balkans. Don't forget that Afghanistan now is an UN issue.
I'm beginning to believe the pipe line theory is the real reason, especially with the history in the Persian Gulf.
Just like historians love to say the American Civil war wasn't over slaves but over other issues, so the middles east isn't over oil but Wmd's and terrorism. I say bull crap, the American civil War was over nothing but slaves and everything in the middle east is over oil. everything else is politics and maneuvering
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