[southern_land]

In my continuing mission to improve CC I have decided to start a thread where the rerelease haters can assemble and plot their positive contributions to Close combat.

So what i'd expect is a roll call first I guess, who's going to get off their arses and do something... anything.

Next you'll need an idea, something to mod Cc into, there are still lots of ideas left so don't worry.

Then you need the get up and go to start. big big step. Organize your graphics teams and data teams.

OK on your marks... get set... go... I wait eager to applaude but frankly i doubt I'll see a damned thing!

[Sapa]

I am no rereleaise hater Shane! Just got real dissapointed in the changes in WaR compared to modding CC5

Mats

[AT_Stalky]

Strange thread SL,
This is the third post in this "style" in as many days:
http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=5755&start=20
http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=5787&start=10

I just looked up "Haters" (C) Copyright by S3T, its a name they used for people that in public dare to say what they observe, and are not blindly shearing on whatever is done to CC. The "haters" do point out good things developed but they don’t back of putting finger on things that need more attention, or improvement. But always remember, the “haters” are evil in any form or character.

Ok, is it an excuse your after, have your feelings been hurt?
Here you have one excuse, Im really sorry for point out the strategy tool was a good thing for CC5 and making the strat map. Ohh here is one more excuse, Im really sorry for pointing out that the BGedit tool that is so userfrindly to make Forcepool isnt supported in WaR (thease are facts). Ohh im bubbeling of confessions, here is another excuse, Im really sorry for not like the soldier modelling turning from manly soldiers to girly soldiers (that’s a opinion). I cant stop my self, here come another excuse, Im really sorry for point out that the weapon data in CCMT is v poor (that’s an understatement). Im a human avelanch of excuses, Im really sorry for point out the broken tracks in WaR is caused by humangus errors in the data file. Ohh theres more excuses, im really sorry for say why the Sherman’s can knock out Panthers in the front and how to and not to correct that. (theas are also facts and advices) Ohhh I almost forgot, noghty me, Im really sorry for saying that WaR H2H craches just as much any other CC5 mod. And, theres more, Im truly sorry for bringing up that H2H connection isnt exacly trubble free in WaR. (thease are also facts) Upz, theres more apologizing in the pipline, Im really sorry for posting screens on the "knocked out teathes" that "dint excist in WaR forcepool", but they did. (thats a fact proven with images)
Anything else?
Come on Sothernland and S3T team, if your feelings is hurt beyond that, get it of yer chest, and Im eager to deliver one excuse after the other, and if others who have pointed out flaws in yer product YOU SOLD for MONEY isn’t making there own excuse, hell, im prepared to make excuses for em.

I have contributed to to continuation of CC with 50$ plus 30$ plus 40$.. Some of that is now hopfully in yer pockets (its not like you made a mod right), what MORE DO YOU WHANT FROM the CONSUMER.

Btw, now that Im reformed, does that qualify me to aply to be a shearleader in S3T? (and thats a joke)

Edit I just cant spell, I do try but.. And I excuse for that to, and I also appologize for my english grama its so terrible. (thats a fact) And not to say, im also sorry for the global warming. (and thats argeble a grater disatser then this thread)

[AT_Stalky]

When Im at it, Im also apologizing for the post a bow, and I alos apologize for this post that shold have been a part of the post a bow. (and thats sarcasm with some irony)

[AT_Stalky]

I shold probly apologize for the last post abow, specialy the last part, but there is only so much apologazion I can manage for one day, so I will have to apologize for that tomorrow, so I apologize for the delay of the apologize that will come on a later date. Im so sorry.

[CSO_Sbufkle]

Shane, your maps and the fact 20 more maps are on strat map are the only good things about WAR. Without that, its simply a patch, as many seem to agree.

Having turned down worlking on this project (when the idea of adding ABTF mod to it was thrown to the wind) it was because i had stepped up and worked with those involved. I was too busy with other gigs including games graphoics gigs where I actually saw that soemtimes the grass is greener on the other side. But of course, thats an opinion.

I think the saddest part of whats happened, is the only staunch defenders of rereleases are those who worked on it. The CSO has become a private club where people in 3T belittle any of its clients or potential clients opinion if its not gold.

Even Schrecken who i still hold in highest regard, is not that great at any pr, but has had the balls to try to defend a luke warm product. Flamethrower as a tester has probably caused the most damage at making the CSO a fat cat club and when he talks in a thread is rude and immediatly discredits the side he takes.

Working with other games companies now, i seriously cant believe how badly 3T talks to its community.-ts unprecidented.

I understand 3T is made largely of guys who were simply modders not long ago, and who have done great work as modders. But the product is sinply a mod now, with someone figuring out how to add more maps.

The whole argument about modding tools and how proven ones no longer work, the community was told to "use excel" thats insulting. Were being treated like were stupid...

Schreck recently hinted these rereleases are stand alone versions! Really? Would 3T really like us to think that? Same engine, same theatre, extra maps, and tweaks on weaknesses... Sorry its a patch or mod.

Look at COI and MT threads in here and youll see promises of new products and patches that have yet to materialize. If you post them at the CSO, Flamethrower will be rude and others on payroll will drown you out. Youll get rude PMS, its like dealing with kids, not professionals.

Wheres the dozens or hundreds of newly hooked players? How many of the newbies stuck? Why are these number non favourable for CC community?

I dont need to step up because I have and frankly with Shane you have the best mapper out there. I do know other companies I now work for find my input and work valuable, and their communties are bigger and the developpers and thier cheerleaders dont bash thier clients.

WAR is supposed to be a professional product, can its developpers stop acting like modders doing it for free with thin skins?

Lets line up long serving CC community members. Lets see if they like WAR as a stand alone or not. Then see whos on 3T payroll or team and then look at same list. Lets see if they are involved insome of these discussions and know how some are treated.

When a quiet guy like Sapa is pissed... Come on! The client is not happy!

I am not targetting this to Shane, im suprised hes taken his stand,his work is the only thing that makes this WAR worth anything beyond a 10 minute mod dl.

Yes alot of work went by developpers to make WAR, like any other mod...

Shreck... Wheres the NEW releases? Where are the indevelopment patches? In an excel file somewhere?

[AT_Stalky]

This is so tiresome, its probly the most …… thread in CCS, my eyes just go round and round and round…

Non argues the improved things in WaR, if SL what to present that angle then do so, nothing to debate there.

Has WaR got things improved over CC5, yes, 64 maps, number BGs, etc. Good.
Is it a new game or a re-relise, its obviously a re-relise the game even say so in it.
Has more changes been made from CC5->WaR then from CC4->CC5, yes.
If it was a new scenario in it, and not bulge, could it had the name CC6, still a old game and it has not.
Is WaR the most modeble CC ever, Ohh yes.
Is WaR the most user-friendly in modding ever, Ohh NO.
Is Girly Soldiers good or bad? It can be debated it’s an opinion, but who dare to debate it, if we debate it we are "haters".
Is the data good in WaR, well, NO, but a new patch is in the pipline, we see that later.


WaR is IMO not the best CC ever, however It might be the best CC ever sometime in the future, but only if people are allowed to bring the less good things forward, and put that finger on it.
Now, HOW does that make me and other “haters”..

[ZombieZamboni]

you tell them CSO_Sbufkle

I'm your biggest fan I love to play computer games and hockey but I hate stupid war games that is why I love your Jethro mod it is so cool and fun to play and not like the stupid war games and I can't wait for your new Zombie mod i will be the first to play it just please don't make it very much about war just like the jethro mod and you should be president of 3T or some game company how come you are not and why is your name CSO?

[Polemarchos]

[Cpt_JB_Mac]

guys, you got to be able to handle critisism. i think alot of it is constructive, although sometimes it is'nt sugar coated.

overall i like WAR. there are a few things i would like to see different. but i find that in any vesrion off cc or mod.

be nice to use those cc5 modding tools tho. especially BGedit.

i am glad that there is someone moving cc forward.

it takes money to do anything in this world now a days. same goes for cc. the guys doing new versions of the older games need to be financially supported if they are to be able to keep working. and them continuing to work is how we will get cc6 or cc7 or what ever.

and it was no secret that war was a enhanced re release. you knew what your were spending your money on. $50 bucks, big deal. it takes that to take my wife out for a simple meal. think of the hours of entertainment you've gotten from cc over the years, and how many $ has it cost you?

cpt jb mac

[CSO_Sbufkle]

[pvt_Grunt]

John, I’m Only Dancing

[AA_Megadeth]

I am glad that people are interested in developing professional level re-releases of CC. CCIV was picked probably because it was an SSI game and therefore an available license, meanwhile CC5 is still owned by microsoft so no one can touch the code for a commercial re-release. I am a die hard fan of CC and a HUGE fan of the modding community which has done more for my enjoyment of this game for free than all the professional releases put together. Its an incredible thing to be still playing a game that is over 10 years old, but thats the strength of PC games for you.

I did not buy WaR because, I have already played that game. Sure its got lots of enhancements, very good ones, BUT its still a CCIV mod. For a full priced game I expect something completely new as a setting. If you had put it in any other setting (Borneo, Solomons, Abyssian Campaign, Italy, Crimea, there are hundreds of operations in WWII that are far more interesting and deserving than the Bulge). I realize this means lots more money and greater risk, but thats how you make money in this industry, and I know because I work in this industry.

I see WaR as a missed opportunity to really add a new CC game to the mix and re-invigorate the genre.

[CSO_Sbufkle]

[Stwa]

Along the way, I knew I did not wan't the re-release of CC3 or CC4. I probably will not want the re-release of CC5 when it comes out.

Oddly enough, I am very happy with CCMT. I would be more active in striving for change in that release, but I think most of the improvements would have to be with the game's code. (i.e. not maps or data, since Therion's data mod).

CCMT now has several nice addon mods. CC5, Marines, and Vietnam. Since I am no longer really interested in campaigns per-se, this is the best fit for moi. So I quess, my old CC4 and CC5 games I no-longer need or want, and they are for sale, if anyone want's em.

About all I am hankering for now-days, are the RTB maps (can't find em anywhere), and a few improvements in the CCMT code line which I know Schrecken should be aware of.

[AA_Megadeth]

Personally I dont like Matrix games, they are stuck in the past with all these turned based hex wargames that they churn out. Wargames are a niche because people like David (CEO of Matrix) are still stuck in this mentality. If you want to play a real wargame get a copy of Highway to the Reich or even better Conquest of the Aegean by Panther Games, trully something NEW and an excellent recreation of operational level WWII combat.

Destineer really dropped the ball with their "interpretation" of Close Combat, FTF. What a waste of time that was. To think I almost took a job there, dodged that bullet!
If Matrix wanted to trully own the strategy game genre, they should stop screwing around , lay our some cash and get a professional team to make a really new Close Combat game, not these mods that are passed off as full version games. DAVE IF YOU ARE READING THIS STOP SCREWING AROUND AND SPEND A GOOD AMOUNT ON A VIRTUAL TEAM AND MAKE A RELEASE WORTHY OF A FULL PRICED GAME! I know you work out of your house and the whole company is virtual, but seriously, get some balls and take a chance.

The modding community is putting you to shame, they create entirely new subjects and release it for free meanwhile you are just releasing the same game with a few extra features and some new graphics, and charge full price. Get serious.

[CSO_Sbufkle]

[CSO_Sbufkle]

[ZombieZamboni]

[platoon_michael]

Edited many times over:
I don't know how much of your post is accurate Buf,but it seems to make a lot of sense.
I knew the re-releases were just that.One day I defend the game one day I bash the game.

I wont be pruchasing anymore of the re-releases.Theres just not enough there to warrent the price.I can get an XBOX game for 10-20 bucks more.
The biggest dissapointment (and there are many) is I feel like all I did was pay 50 bucks to beta test the game.
The Gc which inmho is the best part of CCIV and CCV is still currently unplayable.I know the patch is comming,but I just can't see how that one went unnoticed.

Sometimes you cant help but to wonder if CC has pretty much run it's course.Most people (especially kids)seem to be more into the console games like Gears of War,Halo,Resident Evil or any other title that has massivly sweet graphics.Kids are your largest market.
The online game play of the console games also makes it much easier to hook up with.And I can download demos,which is totally cool in trying to detrmine if you want to buy a game.(blockbuster is still the best bet for trying them out though)
Since Xmas I have been very impressed with how the XBOX360 online game play is.I don't need anything but a game to hook up and play in a matter of minutes,no TS or any other stand alone download to use.
Yes It costs money for the XBOX LIVE experiance but it was the same price of WAR and lasts for one year and provides so much more. Most people seem more eager to spend the money for a new console system rather than a new Whammin Jammin computer that will support a high end game.Not to mention there are way more games for console systems than computers these days.
Even the Madden games from EA Sports dropped their online server fo PC users and even dropped making the games for PC's period.(that alone tells you PC games arent making companys money)
Thats the single most sold game in the ihistory of the gamming industry too.
You can pretty much conclude that the PC games are a thing of the past.Maybe in a few more years when MS has the means of a true online software that support streaming TV shows/movies and Hi-Def TV's come more down in price.Maybe then more people would hook up a computer to their TV.Who wants to play a game on a 18/21 or 24" monitor when theres probably a 42 -52" TV in another room?Also the price of a Dell XPS starts a $1000-$3000 and goes up, for only a few worthy game titles.Jump up to the Extreme gamming Desktops and the price can go has high as $4000 .The game consoles start at around 2-$300 and have a ton more titles.
MS is headed in that direction (atleast it seems to be) with the XBOX 360 you can hook a PC up to it (needs windows Vista or Windows Media) from there you can use the XBOX as a DVR and you can use it to watch TV in 2 different rooms while still recording a show/movie.
Or something like that.And you can watch media files from your PC (worthless) and view all your pictures (also worthless,i'm old school,break out the ole photo albums when it comes to pictures)
I have 3 computers but only one has Vista the other 2 are XP.I have one Hi-Def TV but the other 3 are all the old TV's.I cant use the laptop(which has Vista,although I paid for it,it's not mine) and I dont know yet if or how to get the signal to the other TV's via wireless.
But when the day comes I do see a PC hooked up to my TV if not TV's.
I'm almost sure all were waiting on is better software and enough $$$ from MS to put a few satellites in space.When that day comes there will be no more cable TV.
Even after all that it's going to take one BRAVE Company to take the time and risk and effort to create a new PC game that could attract a huge audiance and offer more than what the then current console gammers can play.

Think about it,
it's not that hard to figure out.