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schrecken

Rep: 195
votes: 15


PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:30 am Post subject: CCMT Walk through walls elements mod by thecaptain Reply with quote

Move and Shoot Through Walls mod for Close Combat: Modern Tactics

http://www.closecombatonline.com/CSO/index.php?name=CmodsDownload&file=index&req=viewsdownload&sid=239&orderby=dateD

by The Captain
steve.caires [at] gmail [dot] com

Last modified June 04, 2008

Description:
This modification allows infantry to move and shoot through walls like they could in Close Combat 3. It modifies the elements.txt file from CCMT, and uses replacement values from Close Combat 3 for walls.

I have played Close Combat 3 for a few years, quite enjoying the multiplayer aspect. I boguht CCMT to have a similar experience, but updated with modern equipment. The difficulties in urban combat surprised me, because my troops could not move or shoot through walls, but were also not smart enough to reliably seek openings from which to shoot or move through. This edited file re-enables that ability. While it is clearly unrealistic behavior in a literal sense, I believe that soldiers would be able to find or make openings in urban combat. This mod gives them that ability. Enjoy!

Thanks to:
-'Senior Drill' on the Matrix forums for saying that these factors were controlled by elements.txt
-CC3 developers for commenting their elements.txt file
-Strategy 3 Tactics and Matrix Games for an awesome new version of CC!
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:04 am Post subject: Re: CCMT Walk through walls elements mod by thecaptain Reply with quote

schrecken wrote:
Move and Shoot Through Walls mod for Close Combat: Modern Tactics

http://www.closecombatonline.com/CSO/index.php?name=CmodsDownload&file=index&req=viewsdownload&sid=239&orderby=dateD

by The Captain
steve.caires [at] gmail [dot] com

Last modified June 04, 2008

Description:
This modification allows infantry to move and shoot through walls like they could in Close Combat 3. It modifies the elements.txt file from CCMT, and uses replacement values from Close Combat 3 for walls.

I have played Close Combat 3 for a few years, quite enjoying the multiplayer aspect. I boguht CCMT to have a similar experience, but updated with modern equipment. The difficulties in urban combat surprised me, because my troops could not move or shoot through walls, but were also not smart enough to reliably seek openings from which to shoot or move through. This edited file re-enables that ability. While it is clearly unrealistic behavior in a literal sense, I believe that soldiers would be able to find or make openings in urban combat. This mod gives them that ability. Enjoy!

Thanks to:
-'Senior Drill' on the Matrix forums for saying that these factors were controlled by elements.txt
-CC3 developers for commenting their elements.txt file
-Strategy 3 Tactics and Matrix Games for an awesome new version of CC!


Now that I have a lot of CCMT games under my belt. I can seriously say that this element mod is really not needed. I found the ORIGINAL element file to be much more fun even in the Urban areas.
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schrecken

Rep: 195
votes: 15


PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:13 am Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree
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Therion

Rep: 27.4
votes: 4


PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:27 pm Post subject: Re: CCMT Walk through walls elements mod by thecaptain Reply with quote

Stwa wrote:
Now that I have a lot of CCMT games under my belt. I can seriously say that this element mod is really not needed. I found the ORIGINAL element file to be much more fun even in the Urban areas.

I would find it more fun if the AI would be more intelligent. If it could do things like putting MG by the window, not by the wall where it can't do anything.


Wonderland - my mod for Armored Brigade

Killing for peace is like fucking for orgasm.
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squadleader_id

Rep: 53.1
votes: 7


PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:57 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Really? In the urban maps?
Soldiers that abort movement when 'slightly' shot at...soldiers that can't find their way around walls...soldiers that can't find doors and windows...and then teams that get separated because half the personel is stuck outside a house looking for a way in. Real fun! Wink
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Therion

Rep: 27.4
votes: 4


PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:05 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, not getting lost in a single room house would be good too Very Happy .


Wonderland - my mod for Armored Brigade

Killing for peace is like fucking for orgasm.
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:57 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Idea


Last edited by Stwa on Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:10 am; edited 2 times in total
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:08 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Idea


Last edited by Stwa on Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:15 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Idea


Last edited by Stwa on Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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schrecken

Rep: 195
votes: 15


PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:30 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Stwa

I like the cut of your jib.

I find troops rarely , if ever, get lost, they always find their way to their team.

I find entering a building through a door and maybe a window strangely normal.

I like improved, realistic, paths taken by infantry to move from point A to point B... maybe even running around a house rather than through it... sort of like I do when i want to go form the front to the back of my place when in a hurry.

The non see through wall aren't without their problems eg knocking out a spy hole etc, but I find it more realistic than earlier versions of CC.

Funny how some C5 maps have no doors or windows... I had to code plenty in in some of the converted maps.
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squadleader_id

Rep: 53.1
votes: 7


PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:33 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Well...I suppose if you like to play without any time limits set...you can tolerate the 10-15 minutes troops need figuring out how to enter a house and setup their equipment Wink

Seriously...this is the 10+ year old CC engine with some minor tweaks we're talking about. Without major overhaul of the codes...CC soldiers are just gonna struggle with solid walls.
Realistic...sure...but fun...different strokes for different folks Smile

As for the "Girlie Soldiers(TM)" AI...sure this is more realistic...but for gameplay sakes...it's a pain to have to keep clicking and re-issuing orders when your troops go to ground.
Maybe if the code is re-written so that when the girls abort movement...you can then give them new movement orders that don't get cancelled out again every few seconds when they get shot at or see enemy girls. The new movement orders/waypoints should stay in place...the girls won't immediately move...they should cower and try to find cover before moving...or maybe just freeze in terror...but players should not have to keep clicking to get them to move...that's just bad game design (and it eventually wears down your mouse buttons Very Happy).

The CC engine has its limitations and abstractions. If you really must have solid walls...then why do you still put up with the abstractions of CC building levels and how soldiers automatically occupy upper floors through see through stairs? Wink
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:57 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Idea


Last edited by Stwa on Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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squadleader_id

Rep: 53.1
votes: 7


PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:13 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Stwa wrote:


squadleader_id wrote:
Seriously...this is the 10+ year old CC engine with some minor tweaks we're talking about. Without major overhaul of the codes...CC soldiers are just gonna struggle with solid walls.


I am NOT seeing soldiers "struggle" will solid walls in my game. Be sure any custom map is using elements supported by CCMT.


Most little CC soldiers are confused when they suddenly find that walls are now solid entities Wink
Try the urban maps with lots of buildings close together Wink

Quote:

squadleader_id wrote:
but players should not have to keep clicking to get them to move...that's just bad game design (and it eventually wears down your mouse buttons Very Happy).


NO ITS NOT. Be sure you give good waypoints to your movement order, so that troops won't come under immediate fire when they start moving. BTW, my mouse buttons are fine.


Try retreating out of harms way...say to the back of a house while under fire...see how many clicks it takes to move the girls Wink

Quote:

squadleader_id wrote:
then why do you still put up with the abstractions of CC building levels and how soldiers automatically occupy upper floors through see through stairs? Wink


No Problem with that here. Are you having a beeg problem with that too. Maybe you should try some other games. Idea


No probs here...no probs with non solid walls here either Wink
And I am already busy with other games...they're called CC3, CC4, CC5 and sometimes also CoI and CCWAR (=girlie soldiers galore...but walls are thankfully not solid Wink).
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squadleader_id

Rep: 53.1
votes: 7


PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:25 am Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW...a bit more about units aborting movement when slightly under fire or seeing enemy girls.
Don't you find it a bit annoying that vehicles quickly stop moving when fired at...and loose their designated complex waypoints?
If the developers wanted the game to implement this 'more realistic behaviour'...then at least make changes in the AI so vehicles automatically reverse to find cover instead of stopping and presenting a solitary target to enemy AT girl teams Smile
At least the girlie soldiers try to crawl into cover after aborting movement orders...
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ANZAC_Lord4war

Rep: 3.5


PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:27 am Post subject: mmm Reply with quote

in regards to the solid walls
i have been playing this style for a few years now and cannot and will not go back to the shoot thru run thru walls style.
use heavy weapons to knock em down (provided walls have good coding)
even tnt that can be used against terrain(walls).
with game u r mentioning did map coders bother to code windows in correctly?
quite sensible to have a wider doorway coded in as well on ground floors
i dont code doors on 2 story or higher buildings it gives too good a los into the building.
just use 2nd floor windows and code them slower to cross this can replicate having to use imaginary stairwell or ropes to get in
also stops u rushing a large team in and overwhelming defence with unrealistic attack,with narrow windows the troops have to get in 1 or 2 at a time.
its murder if a 2man team defending building with smg is just sitting there waiting for you
u need to use a ground and pound type offense then rush in when there shellshocked.
same with assaulting out of a 2 story building the team cannot rush out quickly.
i usually blow one half of building out to get in
then when i want to keep assaulting run out of rear of building (the way i came in) run around building and into next,as team will stay together more easily as well as have cover of 2 story building and they can rush next building as a complete squad,provided u have made a good entrance into next building with ur tanks or even a bazooka can achieve this aim for u.
when coded correctly u knock the 2nd floor walls,windows down u will get better los to more members of the enemy team.


Forget words,actions will show your true ambitions!The Battlefield,In many cases, the terrain of a battlefield can be the best resource a commander has. A clump of trees, an abandoned house, or a drainage ditch can all be powerful tools in the right hands
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:39 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Idea


Last edited by Stwa on Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:12 am; edited 2 times in total
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squadleader_id

Rep: 53.1
votes: 7


PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:40 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, ANZAC_Lord4war!
Good to hear from you again...I though you were MIA!

I must admit I haven't tried your D-Day Utah Sector mod with solid walls coding...so I'm as much of a rookie at this as my beloved tiny CC soldiers at finding doors and windows Smile
But my experience with CCMT solid walls left me with a sour after taste Wink
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squadleader_id

Rep: 53.1
votes: 7


PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:51 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Stwa wrote:


All we have done with all this posting is establish the fact that YOU DONT LIKE solid walls.


How did you figure that out? Wink
And I think we can also establish the fact that you're one of the 3 people that love CCMT to death? Wink

Quote:

But troops are NOT CONFUSED or LOST, NOT STUGGLING, THEY DONT take fifteen minutes in and out of structures, and TANK movment is fine. The game is basically for COIN missions, so use tanks accordingly.


Try the Gazwah (spl?) map...
And it's cool that you don't find tank movement to be a problem...maybe I'm just to lazy to keep trying to reset waypoints for these tanks with lady drivers.

Quote:

Besides, as I mentioned in another thread, I have coded AI tanks to mortar halftracks, because I can.


So that makes them hang around in the back so that our tanks can move about without too many aborts because they never run into enemy tanks? Smile
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ANZAC_Lord4war

Rep: 3.5


PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:51 am Post subject: mmm Reply with quote

CCMT would not be suiting to hiding in a building with the weapons they have nowadays.
they would just destroy the building from some distance if a single gunshot came out of it.
P.S To find terrain details hoover mouse over wall of house,u need to know before attacking as u wouldnt run thru a known minefield.
When coding done properly u can physically see the wall has been knocked down.
Dont fret not playing my old mod,i havent played this one lol.
Just enjoy the ones u like.


Forget words,actions will show your true ambitions!The Battlefield,In many cases, the terrain of a battlefield can be the best resource a commander has. A clump of trees, an abandoned house, or a drainage ditch can all be powerful tools in the right hands
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:01 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Idea


Last edited by Stwa on Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:13 am; edited 1 time in total
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