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mooxe

Rep: 213
votes: 25


PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:30 pm Post subject: GJS Strategy Guide - Add Your Solutions Reply with quote

I prefer the German strategy of moving my BGs off the beaches out of range of naval bombardment. Once that is done I make a defensive line two units deep. A heavy unit up front with the weaker ones behind. As new BGs deploy, the weaker units get replaced.

Caen, which is behind the defensive line I always try to keep occupied with an elite infantry unit, or atleast an infantry unit with lots of infantry and AT weapons. I do this in case of any breakthroughs.

Bayeux always has an elite infantry unit with AT support. A unit with some tank killer may also be there, I must have panzerschreks whatever unit is there.

Hermanville is a mix of open fields, heavy bocage and buildings. Usually I will keep any unit here.

Thaon is a difficult map because of its size. A mobile unit is best here. Usually the enemy has to pick a smaller area to attack and commit there only. Mobile support units are useful to cover the infantry especially in the south sections where infantry cannot retreat with much cover.

Lebissey Woods needs a good unit with lots of ATG. Long lines of fire make it ideal.

Buron must have a unit heavy with ATGs atleast untill the battle enters the city. To relieve the unit in Buron is must be a motorized or tank unit, something to get you out of the fields as soon as possible.

Pegasus Bridge is a last stand for the unit that is there. Each battle I choose about 10 machine guns, three leaders, the last two spots are heavy support weapons. I keep that order up as long as possible. I treat Merville Batteries the same as Pegasus.

Ranville & Bois Du Bavent are always occupied by whatever unit can hold vs AB.

There are a few things I do to help my defense line from collapsing. I keep a count of how many leader units, support units and tank I kill. Knowing this will help you determine if you should attack or ambush. I also swap out my BGs when I know the enemy will move a new unit in. Its hard to know when they will, deployment zones and number of attack units they have left are the indicators.

Once the main defensive line begins to collapse I assess whether or not to just pull the line back one map. No matter thought I have to hold Caen and Bayeux. Losing either of those two maps as Germans and the game is over. Abbaye Ardenne, Buron, Carpiquette and Colombelles are also bad maps to lose. They are very difficult to attack into since they all have huge swaths of open ground.

So the general idea of my plan is to use heavy infantry in the two cities, Bayeux and Caen. Mobile units in the center. Last stands at Merville and Pegasus. Ambushing and tank hunting are the primary tactics untill the enemy BGs are worn down. Take advantage of meeting engagements when swapping out units and attacking from directions into maps which will put the enemy deployment at a severe disadvantage.

Anyways this should take you to atleast week two of the grand campaign assuming you hold the line.

So add your solutions for the Allies or a better German one.


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Last edited by mooxe on Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:46 am; edited 1 time in total
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bkp_mik

Rep: 3.6


PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:53 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

As for German solutions - I believe it would be better to use Rommels strategy. Holding allies in the beaches can give the best victory. I know its hard to make it with bgs that are present in the beaches on 6 June, but holding the allied advance allows to pull better bgs, 21 with tanks and 352 with schecks. Then they can be replaced with 12ss grens.
Navals are not what Germans are to fear, its given say 2 navals/day, which means they get worn out in the morning round. And still allies wont stand ss teams in the beaches, even with navals.
I agree your ideas for German defence, they are totally right and wise. However I believe if you let allies land and stay on the ground, you lose in the end of the gc. Allies can progress slowly, but its enough. They got refs, german bgs just get worn out and there is nothing to do about it. Even panters and tigers drop out one by one and soon they're gone.
I've won 1 gc playing germans like I wrote, another bg almost won, the opponent gone, but have panters in gold, juno mostly mine, sword with 26 ss grens, no chance on that beach for allies.
On the other hand I am having a gc as allies. For them the key is to press hard day 1 and 2, most of the ground i gained was due to quickly moving forward, not clearing the beach with 1 wave bgs, but moving them inland and letting 2 wave bgs clear beaches. Then its damn tough, schecks, ats, panters and tigers and so on. But slowly you can make it. Damaging german tanks make them eliminated after the round, some u kill during the fight. I believe you can make it obtaining better positions on some maps, making germans retreat back and on. Also advancing is possible both over and under the channel, wchich makes gers strech their defence line. Certainly attacking panters is almost a suicide, but if they sustain loses, its worth even with disbands. Since the only minus of a disband is that u get your bg back in the beach, its not much. Its not true they lose some teams due to disband, so its not much wrong with it.
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buuface

Rep: 56.4
votes: 1


PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 3:59 am Post subject: Reply with quote

This is something im trying for the first time at the moment as Germans playing Recruit/Recruit settings. H2H Grand Campaign(1)

Bring all hell to bare on the British Paras at the start of the Campaign,
With the ultimate goal of capturing:

Merville Batteries (which germans hold at the begginning of the campaign)
Pegasus Bridge (obviously very difficult to recapture but i believe it can be done with the early German Panzer BGs , the ones many with Mark 3s and old tanks which arrive near the start of the campaign or the heavier Panzers which can arrive a little later)
Ranville i usually attack this map in turn 1 with the panzergen unit adjacent
Benoville Can be held from near the start of the campaign
Oustreham may need to be retaken by gerry unless allies can be held at the southern beaches a while longer

Or press the paras hard untill an elite unit can be brought up to dislodge them.

I realise its not an easy task, or to hold the line elsewhere while taking these maps

But i believe its worth the effort because once taken and the supply line established from the depot in Merville Batteries i think this area will be very hard to re-take by the allies if well garrisoned by the Germans and provides some great opportunities for counter attacks from the south onto the beaches and the second row of maps from Benoville and Ouestreham potentially cutting off the allies supply.

I am in the process of trying this in 2 of my GJS GCs whch are in within first few days still.



In scope of the entire grand campaign i think the British Paras are one of the weaker allied BGs, yet they start in one of the most valuable areas of the campaign map. this is why i think its worth trying to disband them as early as possible.

thoughts?

Do you think this plan could work? or do you think its not worth it?
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VonVolks

Rep: 6.6


PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:44 am Post subject: Reply with quote

why do you play on recruit?

we usually use elite level for H2H GC's?


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buuface

Rep: 56.4
votes: 1


PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:49 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

VonVolks wrote:
why do you play on recruit?

we usually use elite level for H2H GC's?



who is we ?

All force settings are playable I think GJS is balanced for all of them.

On Recruit/Recruit both sides get more troops and more unit variety so the campaign goes a little longer at full strength rather then very quickly becoming a battle of attrition.
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mikwarleo

Rep: 38.5
votes: 2


PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:37 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

recruit/recruit is bad in gjs imho... realism is the order of the day for any GC I play, so for me it's line/line always. recruit = king tigers and jagpanthers which can easily take out 10-20 tanks each before finally going down.

strategy wise, hit hard and fast early always. Heavy losses mean much few losses later on assuming you're achieving your objectives. Those objectives are simple, for allies get off the beaches on first battle so you get reinforcements immediately. For Gerry, as you would expect your objective is opposite. Stop them from getting off the beaches! Delay delay delay! If the allied advance is stopped in any signficant way for more than a day or so german reinforcements mean they're not going anywhere.

Courseulles in particular can be held for many days with that infantry BG that starts on the map. Once your heavy tanks arrive if you manage to get them to the landing beaches that's the end of the story within a few days. Alternatively as allies, if you get off straight away you'll have your early elite BGs facing mostly infantry. Hit hard and fast and don't worry about losing tanks. Break the line and blitz as hard as possible. Dont worry about clearing maps in most cases, exit and move inland first chance you get. Taking maps for free is a BIG gift and early on chances are you'll be advancing into open territory. Once the GC moves a long a few days you'll be fighting (and taking losses) for every inch of ground. Also if you're advancing inland fast you might end up out of supply for a while, but german BGs you've left behind will also be out of supply, so you can use your follow up units to consolidate your position while holding a preliminary line which is much further inland (much closer to your ultimate victory).

After the first few days if the result for either side is indecisive it simply becomes a long, laborous slug fest especially for allies. As either side, if things go the way you want early on you'll have the initiative and victory is more or less assured unless you goof up.


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mooxe

Rep: 213
votes: 25


PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:49 am Post subject: Reply with quote

Another good tactic is to not disband units on a supply depot. Leave them a few survivors in a tiny deployment zone. This way will delay reinforcements and if they dont disband manually, they may use thier one reinforce to break out of the small deploy.


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buuface

Rep: 56.4
votes: 1


PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:11 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

I have met a lot of people recently, expereienced cc5 players who refuse to play GJS because they think the Allies have no chance of winning when both players are evenly skilled.

What do you guys think about that?
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Lt_2nd

Rep: 15.6


PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:26 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the Allies have a good opportunity of winning a GC, it definitely takes longer and is more difficult against a skilled player, but the Fpools in the long term are in the Allies favor, as stated in some of the above threads and in my experience the middle of the campaign becomes a slogging match/battle of attrition on the middle line of maps generally running along the line north from caen up to Tilly. Though, by the the 18-23 of June (depending on the skill of the players), the German BGs should become worn down and will be less capable of preventing a British breakthrough. It takes along time to get to this point in the GC, which some people dont want to invest, but in my experience the results of the GC will be historically similiar.
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Volksjager_cn

Rep: 47.5


PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 3:25 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

The GJS GC, if the players are evenly skilled or experienced. The GC will be decided within the first 2 days. That is if the frist 2 waves of Allied BGs can get off the beach and be able to rout a few weaker German initial BGs. A lots of ifs.

Failing to do that, it is very difficult for Allies to win. For Germans, just like mikwarleo said, delay at all cost so that the panzer BGs can either form a defense line or even better, wipe out the Allies beachheads with rolling panzers. ROAR Smile
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Atilla

Rep: 2.5
votes: 1


PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 6:33 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting discussion.

I'll add a bit from my own experience, which is also a bit the 'designers' perspective Wink

I played a few H2H GC's. The AI of CC is not very competative to start with, which is why we balanced the GC for H2H play.

When one compares the strength of the two sides, the Germans obviously have a very mixed bag of battlegroups. Some very weak - like the Ost BG's - a fair number of average-strength BG's and a number of elite ones, especially the Panzers. The armor is pretty much concentrated in a few elite BG's.
The Allies on the other hand have mostly average strength BG's, with the advantage that all BG's have a fair amount of armor.

My strategy with the Germans is to hold on to the beaches as long as possible - the battlegroups deployed there are expendable in the first place. Once you're driven inland, those weak Ost-BG's are not of much use holding any point in a defensive line. However if you can confine the first wave of Allied BG's to the beach for the first turn, the second wave of Allied BG's will be delayed for another two turns. Which buy's you valuable time to deploy stronger BG's closer to the coast. The next objective is to keep the frontline as short as possible. That way you can maximize the effect of the better BG's. So I'll always try to dislodge the airborne BG's around Pegasus; if you can get a strong BG on the Pegasus map that will shorten the frontline considerably. Driving the Allies back into the sea is gonna be a hard battle though, I never succeeded in that.

The strategy for the Allies is to go inland as quickly as possible. Clearing the beaches is a job for the second or third wave of BG's. The further you can get inland the first few turns, the more room for reinforcements, and the harder it will be for the Germans to drive you back into the sea.
During the next phase in one H2H campaign I played I relieved the airborne BG's around Pegasus and replaced them with heavier BG's. I kept up the pressure in the centre, while not advancing more than two maps there. I did advance on the flanks however, taking Tilly on the left flank and Colombelles on the right flank. From Tilly I rotated the axis of advance into the direction of Carpiquet. Two weeks into the GC I moved one BG onto Carpiquet, and on the other side of the map I advanced into Caen. Which basically left around 8 strong German BG's (Lehr, 12th SS) in the centre out of supply! Rather sadly we didn't finish the GC, however the battle of attricion at that point surely went my way. (on a sidenote: encircling Caen was one of Monty's ideas)

About winning the grand campaign; sure it's hard to win as Allies. With equally skilled players it's probably impossible to actually conquer the whole strategic map, either as Germans or as Allies. The GC at some point usually turns into a battle of attricion. Still, as I described above, it's quite possible to implement a good deal of strategy to this attricion.
Apart from that, in reality the Allies didn't advance beyond the line Caen-Tilly during the timeframe of GJS. So if the Allied player does manage to advance beyond that line, I considder that a victory.
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ActionJacksonDX

Rep: 15.5
votes: 1


PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:03 pm Post subject: Re: GJS Strategy Guide - Add Your Solutions Reply with quote

i think that balance is strongly based on player skill. imo with two equally weak players, germans should win, while with two equally strong players, allies should win. this is because an unorganized attack loses to an unorganized defence. weak players spread their forces too much, and also have troubles playing against atgs and panzerschrecks.
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bkp_mik

Rep: 3.6


PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:48 pm Post subject: Re: GJS Strategy Guide - Add Your Solutions Reply with quote

That would be true if you assume Germans would not attack from the very begining. But if they did, especialy commanded by a good player trying to push allies back to the sea at all cost? I'd say it is possible to sustain allies in the coast. If you gain back sword beach and the coast around it, not even taking gold and juno, alles are left little space to gather bgs. It's mainly the scale of fighting that allows allies win. If they are able to organize a front from top to down strat map it makes gerries use a lot of bgs to fight them and atritt. But if germans take even limited offensive steps and keep half of the coast, winning with allies would be tough.
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DAK_E_Rommel

Rep: 0.1


PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:07 pm Post subject: Re: GJS Strategy Guide - Add Your Solutions Reply with quote

ActionJacksonDX wrote (View Post):
i think that balance is strongly based on player skill. imo with two equally weak players, germans should win, while with two equally strong players, allies should win. this is because an unorganized attack loses to an unorganized defence. weak players spread their forces too much, and also have troubles playing against atgs and panzerschrecks.


Really i´m agreed with action. I started several gjs gc´s and always more important is player skill, not tactic or strat.


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