[Tejszd]

With the more powerful computers today and the higher res video cards/monitors available CC needs the maps and vehicles to be done with more pixels per meter which would let them be more detailed.

At minimum both maps and vehicles should be at 10 pixels per meter to match (closer) the soldiers (10 to 12 depending on the pose). Or maps should be at 10 pixels per meter and soldiers/vehicles at 15?

[CSO_Sbufkle]

I never liked angled view buildings or vehicles. Its a top down game after all.

Yes it does take alot of extra work to do angles, but thats not why I dont like them, becuase then everything on a map should be realisitically angled..

[mooxe]

[schrecken]

Funny wobbly tanks does not a quality visual experience make....

Nor does some  weird buildings with random walls sticking out...


I live on a hill, using google earth I see the top of my car not the back....


You probably think your wife is beautiful whereas I think she runs second to mine.

[vonB]

It's an artificial top down anyway.  There's no perspective or parallax.  If you are looking down on the middle, then you should start to see the sides facing you as the distances regress.  It's really a virtual Map made to come alive with representational graphics.

I remember when I got EYSA.  I liked the game, but interestingly ended up playing it a la CC, that is zooming out to the birds eye view to play from there, even though you could get down to ground level.  For me, it's the closest so far to a CC experience in another game, and I put that down to the Mad Bunny.  You know, I might even wield it out again sometime just for a small diversion...

[mooxe]

The debate is not about why these graphics have been omitted. We already know, its a shortcut. They were not omitted because CC is better off without them. If the vehicle graphics seem wobbly then its because the change in graphics are not subtle enough. These were features that added more depth to the decision making of the tactical phase.

Should you know the state of a tanks angle without clicking on it?

Do you want to know where the doors are on the west and south sides of a building before entering without clicking on it?

In the remakes, many of the original tanks kept the tilted images. So really, if it detracted from the game why werent they removed? It sounds like they were not removed because they are better than a single flat top view. The reason for not making the new tanks with the titled image set was because its too hard and takes too long - but in case that reason isnt good enough throw "its not realistic" or something in there as well.

I know that SL can stamp out maps pretty quick, and the guys drawing the vehicles are very good at that to. There is certainly a comfort zone there and a feeling that the work is good enough. It is good but it can get better. Besides drawing more interesting looking houses, maps or vehicles the only graphics update this game can see with its current engine is going back to what Atomic did with the tilted/angle graphics.

[schrecken]

Personally I see it as a non-issue.

The graphics you describe neither add nor subtract from the game, in my opinion.

Whether they are there or not is just a curiosity.

[southern_land]

Okay take the other view then, asthetics aside (and thats debateable) what gaming value does tilted graphics provide?  It doesn't give you a better indication of building height that the floor numbers stamped on the roof.

"Do you want to know where the doors are on the west and south sides of a building before entering without clicking on it? "

Thats a misleading statement in many ways too as it neglects entry points on the northern and eastern sides of a structure.  If the graphics ned to show this then they should show it on all sides.  Best way of sgowing entry points to a lot of buildings is by adding doorstels, paths of worn trails to those entries

Even in cc5 titled buildings aren't used exclusively I've just popped Acequvlle open and of the 16 buildings 5 have no discernable tilt, even two story structures.

probably also need to ask the question if Cc could have buildings of 10 floors should we see 10 floors worth of tilt or would that just look silly?

[CSO_Linebacker]

First off, nice discussion...lots of responses in only 3+ days.

When RTBTool came out, I made a keyframe sequence for LW that would render the 17 different tilted images for vehicles.  This was based on the 17 keyframes that Atomic originally used when rendering their 3d models in 3DS.  I've never used it beyond testing for a couple of reasons.

1. I had never before noticed the tilting in the game, so it obviously didn't add that much to the game for me.
2. The lack of detail that comes with rendering vehicles at the CC scale with the animation was not worth it to me. I found that I preferred the higher detail over the animation...with pt#1 above being the main reason.  Now, if the standard scale was the zoom scale of CC3 then perhaps my attitude might change.
3. The terrain doesn't actually have an effect on the animation.  It is a straight 17 frame animation.  You can being driving down a flat road, and you still see the tilting/rocking/rolling animation.



For the 'floating' issue...that can be addressed with Mafi's VehShadEdit tool...if a person wants to take the time to make the shadow as good as possible.

For buildings, well, that's obviously up to the mapmakers.  I like to render the buildings and as many structures as possible on my maps in LW, in order to give them the slight 3d effect...but the main reason I do it that way is to provide them with accurate shadowing.

[Pzt_Kanov]

[vonB]

[schrecken]

In CCMT the delay in reaching the fourth floor was modelled by

1. Buildings could only be accessed by Doors and Windows.

2. Each new level of access  eg Wood Door level 2  had an ever increasing movement rate penalty

This avoided the instantaneous teleporting of earlier versions of CC

[CSO_Linebacker]

You may see it, but what I was saying, is that it is just a typical animation loop like any other in CC, whether the terrain is coded the same elevation or not. When you run that sherman on a road where the elevation is all the same, you still see the tilting/rocking/rolling

[Pzt_Kanov]

[Tejszd]

Have to disagree CSO_Linebacker.... I once selected 15 of the same tank and CC5 selected the right graphic for the elevation change based on the ground I sat the tank on during the deployment phase.