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southern_land

Rep: 155.2
votes: 14


PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:54 am Post subject: Re: Warning to New Close Combat Players Reply with quote

I see lost temple (hey its probably fucking hiding from him) is talking about us 'orrible Matrix "employees" creating fake names to post... Anyone else picked up that Lost temple only joined on the 18th of january this year... anyone else wonder who the ignorant Troll was prior to that?  


Sorry for making my response black on white, normal size, not even bolded.  I hope you can all read it.   hahahahaha  God save us from Fuckwits
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:31 am Post subject: Re: Warning to New Close Combat Players Reply with quote

So that would be about the time you retired, right   Question   Laughing

Dont sit that close to your CRT, it will make you sterile.

Move back and try bolding instead, or get an LCD/LED like the rest of us.
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Andreus

Rep: 16.8


PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:14 am Post subject: Re: Warning to New Close Combat Players Reply with quote

Blah blah blah matrix games bad, blah blah blah remakes bad, blah blah blah originals rule, over and over again.

Know what, matrix/cso simtek are the only ones that have put time and money into Close Combat, wich is the strategy games series I (and supposedly we) love, after Atomic dropped it. I have the remakes and the boxed originals (well, at least CCV) and enjoy them all with their bugs and mistakes.
So what's the point of all this crap? If rereleasing the classics is the way to CC6, fine, go for it. If it's just about the dirty money and there won't be no CC6, fine again, we got the games running stable under newer OS. Thanks atomic for the originals, simtek for the remakes, mooxe for the site and modders for the mods.

Amen  Wink


You know, I'm just a normal guy like everyone else. Why, my friends say, "Andreus you're just so cool because you're normal just like everyone else." Yep, normal that's me. - Fallout 2
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Dundradal

Rep: 27.9
votes: 4


PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:26 pm Post subject: Re: Warning to New Close Combat Players Reply with quote

Stwa wrote (View Post):


Who would actually wait patiently 10 years for a computer game...   Question



Duke Nuke'em Forever.


"To you, we are deeply grateful, and release what little hold we might, as Durandal, have had on your soul.
Go."
- Final Terminal Message, Marathon Infinity
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general_solomon

Rep: 22.7
votes: 1


PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: Warning to New Close Combat Players Reply with quote

how difficult would it be for a company to purchase the men of war game engine. then code in the time tested cc morale system and waala you have yourself cc6 with improved graphics that would take the gaming world by storm.

also, include a game editor to that creates maps for ease of use.

why dont we stop wishing for this game and just make it ourselves. I am willing to put in 20k. who is up for this?

I dont know programming but can market and sell beachfront homes in Arizona like yesterday's news.

we just need one good programmer who believes in this project and we are ready to go.

who's with me.
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vonB

Rep: 32.6
votes: 5


PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:50 pm Post subject: Re: Warning to New Close Combat Players Reply with quote

QM wrote (View Post):
Hoogley wrote (View Post):

.....
vonB's comments have me intrigued.  I hope to see the memoirs.  Wink


Ya me three.  I know a fair bit but the rest is vague.


Ho hum.  I can give an insiders' view from the beginning of both CSO and CSO Simtek, after all, I did co-found and co-own them both.  There is only one other person who could legitimately challenge that, and I would be happy to stand in open court and argue that toss, but like I said, in terms of real life importance, it comes pretty low in the food chain.  The issues that concerned me are probably much narrower than many might think, especially the conspiracy theorists.  If I were a lesser being, I would already have spouted mountains of drivel, rant, and invective, but there are already those who delight in that anyway.  Passes the time I suppose.

However, a small note about CC6.  During my time at CSO Simtek (as Director and Head of Operations), I initiated the Project for CC6 formally.  I guess there are many(?) that might remember when the first Topics started appearing on closecombat.org?  At that time, it was an intention, and I guess it still is just that.

The situation was probably the same as it is now.  There was no free money available to put into development, which in my opinion, would take a six figure sum to accomplish commercially and do a good job.  That in itself did not put us off, as we were in it for the long haul.  In a nutshell, any financing of development would have had to come from the CSO Simtek coffers, the revenue for which was coming exclusively from Military (USMC/RAF Regt) sources for the development of CC for them (CCM, CCRAFRegt, CCAT, etc).  I am not going to go into commercial specifics, but suffice to say, that did not provide sufficient funds for speculative development such as CC6.  Much would still have to be done charitably, but there were committed people prepared to take it on, at least get something started.

Soon after CoI was released, I left CSO Simtek (early 2007), therefore cannot comment on anything from the 'inside' after that.

Most of the comments regarding the why's and wherefore's of the re-releases are in the right ball park, and you don't need to be very intelligent to understand.  There's no revelation here.  It is the easiest way to make some extra money on a meagre budget, using free contribution as much as possible.  If we did anything wrong at CSO Simtek, it was spending CSO Simtek money on the development of CoI.  We did because we were committed, in it for the long haul, and any revenues would help to offset the development costs and help towards developing CC6.  We were not expecting a lot, but everything helped.

Now that Matrix drives the agenda commercially (unless anyone can detail otherwise?), you are unlikely to get CC6, at least in the terms I was intending, that is a major reworking, even from the ground up.  The sums are simple.  Who is going to pay for it?  There are many things that can be done for free, but not for an intention like that.  Re-releasing is all that is viable in the circumstances.  Destineer and Matrix (though they would have access to sufficient funds) are never going to spend it on CC6 ever, UNLESS you could provide a compelling argument that the product would not only recover the investment, but a lot more besides.  The executive of Destineer is as ruthless as they come, likewise Matrix Games.  It's just business.

That brings a final comment.  This is all based on my own vision of what CC6 could/should be.  Others may have a different vision.  It was based on a ground up development of the engine and presentation, using the logic that supports the CC game, in particular the psychological model.  Heck it works brilliantly, so why not use it again.

Anyone who has any understanding of what the development effort for something like that is, will appreciate just how big that is.  I will admit at the time I wondered whether it would ever see the light of day, but again, that did not stop us wanting to try.

So it's not rocket science to understand why we have what we have.  The only real issue is whether you like it or not, and most of the contra's tend to fall in the I don't like community, but then there are those that are happy to play CC using stolen copies.

I'll end with this observation;  in all the sectors I have worked, I have never found so many air heads, dick heads, wasters, idiots, and other dysfunctional types as there are compressed into the 'games' sector, most of them thinking that they were something, and probably still do.  I spent 10 years working in Oil and Gas.  Most of the idiots would shit a brick if they were to try to survive in that sector.  I'd give them a day.  On the other hand, there are some absolutely top notch, A1, first class, amazing and wonderful people, whom I have been privilged to know and work with.  Funny old world.

However, I think I was just being whimsical when I said I might one day write my memoirs.  There's nothing interesting enough to justify boring people with.  But I may be tempted to publish all the documentation and correspondence relevant at the time, and people can make up their own mind.  But not yet...

If anyone has any specific question they would like to ask, then ask away, but I can't promise I will reply...

Fairy Nuff?
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Hoogley

Rep: 15.7
votes: 4


PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:47 pm Post subject: Re: Warning to New Close Combat Players Reply with quote

vonB - I hope my comments show to clearly be fence-sitting.  I'm just saying that there's good points and bad points to the current CC situation, and it would be nice to have this game move into the present, but that is a Utopian dream.

It's a shame really; people who've never played CC don't know what they're missing out on, and we are all missing out on a modern CC experience.  Close Combat is the best RTS experience outside of Total War.  Actually, maybe the Creative Assembly will move into the WWI & then WWII eras for their next couple of games.  After all, they've pretty much gone back over the old material again so there's not much room left in the ancient world for another TW game.  That would do me just fine.


"I have come here to kick ass and chew bubblegum... and I'm all out of bubblegum." - They Live
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:13 am Post subject: Re: Warning to New Close Combat Players Reply with quote

RGR That Hoogley  Exclamation

As most of you know, I really like CCMT, even with its remaining bugs. I find it challenging, and fun, and right now, I am using it a lot more than Rome Total War.

I think I have fallen into the vonB and USBrake camp, the CSO Simtek games, and I may give COI another look, to see if there is anything I can do with that game.

By that I mean importing all the old CC5 and CC4 maps, etc, so there can be a WF and EF.
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ZAPPI4

Rep: 33.3
votes: 2


PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:41 pm Post subject: Re: Warning to New Close Combat Players Reply with quote

lol very good post LostTemple...

I dont agree about the matrix employees who came on CCS to trying to make money...

I think they dont come for that Smile they just come to show us that CCS isnt the proper place
for forum, archive and download. The right place seem to be at matrix place.

Whatever, all i see that CCS been, once we created it, the most popular site online about CC.
Why that?
Simply because it's an active site. User play online, site maker too. A lot or maybe all moder
are active on CCS. And if i dont make mistake, this is not Matrix who keep CC series alive.
They just made remake of older opus to try to make CC6. Well, in fact all the money sended
to their remake would be nice part of CC6 making price.
In fact, when someone make a game, they dont try to get money from player before and during
the game development. They just put "the money" and will try to make it good enought to get back their
money when the game is released.
Imagine... You wanted to buy a car what will be released at the end of this year. A special carn new concept
based on older best model... But to buy it, you have before to buy some older model. Just to get the developper
enought money to bring on the new concept car of your dream...
hehe, what a non sense.

For me, CC6 will never come. And if it come it will be always too late!


Tout est possible ... il faut juste connaitre quand.
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:04 pm Post subject: Re: Warning to New Close Combat Players Reply with quote

Good post ZAPPI4  Exclamation

Sometimes, I think, that the new producers and developers, were are too willing to try and obsolete the vast number of mods that were here in the first place.

mooxe reminded us the other day, what life might have been like, had Matrix, just patched CC5 and called it a nightmare.

I cant help but agree, their would have been a lot more new users, and the climate around here alot nicer.
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LostTemple

Rep: 59.2
votes: 7


PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:49 am Post subject: Re: Warning to New Close Combat Players Reply with quote

vonB, your post has been the most insightful and intelligent so far.

My problem with Matrix Games is either put up or shut up.  Either make CC6 already or stop lying to us and telling us you will.

A lot of us here are sick of being dicked around.

But I think the truth is Matrix Games simply CAN'T develop CC6.  After so many years of their lies and subterfuge, it should be clear that any other company would have produced it already.  In which case, sell off the franchise already so we can get the game and never have to deal with these clowns.
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Hoogley

Rep: 15.7
votes: 4


PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:53 am Post subject: Re: Warning to New Close Combat Players Reply with quote

LostTemple wrote (View Post):
In which case, sell off the franchise already so we can get the game and never have to deal with these clowns.


Again, I am just sitting here on the fence playing devil's advocate:  would somebody else pick it up?  Can you be so sure?  I know we all love it, but is there really a big developer - or even a medium sized developer - waiting in the wings to snatch up the franchise?  What if this is it?  What if it doesn't get any better than this, and this slow "death by Matrix", if I can put my tongue squarely in my cheek here, is all that's left for the good ol' Close Combat IP?

I'm seriously NOT trying to argue the case of, "beggers can't be choosers".  I'm just saying that, well, the Roman Empire isn't around anymore.  Hanna-Barbera isn't around anymore.  Sega consoles aren't around anymore.  Firefly isn't around anymore.  Some things die, even with a seemingly solid fanbase.

So, sure, the current situation isn't perfect; there's a number of things I want in CC that still aren't here - but is it really the frontline, in the trenches, cloak and dagger, theft and betrayal, War And Peace epic flame-war I sit here and read day after day?  Like I said, I always seem to find myself in here somewhere - I guess I love the writing practice - but is it possible to keep some semblance of perspective?  Why the hell do we need the call for jihad, bold claim postings?  Jesus, you make out like Matrix is freaking illuminati or something.

I fell out of touch with CC after Invasion Normandy because I thought the franchise was dead.  I gather that Matrix pissed off a lot of y'all in the time I wasn't around to read about (or honestly care enough about to fish into archives for).  Fair enough, I can't say you have any reason not to be pissed off.  So, my suggestion is do what the Aliens comic book fans did in response to every sequel movie after number 2: write it off as a dream, and pretend it never happened.  Don't buy the Matrix games; don't listen to Matrix press releases, don't talk about Matrix at home or in public, ignore posts from Matrix employees.  Pretend like they never existed, and keep to the original games, or just let them live on in joyous memories of golden days past.

Ok, and now I'm making a promise to myself that no matter how ridiculously over-dramatised and phlem spittled these flame-outs get, I'm just going to sit back, shake my head, and not try to argue up hill.

Peace.


"I have come here to kick ass and chew bubblegum... and I'm all out of bubblegum." - They Live
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platoon_michael

Rep: 47.6
votes: 25


PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:47 am Post subject: Re: Warning to New Close Combat Players Reply with quote

I don't think I've ever posted "Don't buy the game" to anyone.(I hope not)

And I don't recall any promises by Matrix for CCVI,where is that thread?

But the lack of support for correcting many of the errors created by Matrix in the re-releases and the carry over of bugs in the previous version leaves me wondering "What the Fuck"

I.E. Deployment bug when removing a BG from a map and then having another enter that same map from a different side of the map.
I.E. Correcting the display of 10 men teams.(Or lack of)
I.E. No Tigers for the Germans in WAR,WTF?,doesn't anyone remember the 1000's of post by players asking that in CCIV and now we get them again for WAR?
No real additional features that fans really wanted
I.E. No Digging in,
I.E. No 5on5 H2H
I.E. No Troop Transport
I.E. No direct hook-up online through the game,like the Zone.(Couldn't add your BHQ to that?)
I.E. No MMCCIII for WAR,tLD or LSA to promote more online games.

They gave Beta Testers a free game but yet I don't see anything in the mail for me for all the bugs I've found in WAR  Idea
I wish I had kept a record of all the ones I posted and mentioned through MSN.
I'm more than willing to bet my total is higher than any of the Beta testers.
Instead I get Black-Balled by some and labeled as a whiner by the others.

They say they can't fix some or any of these errors but yet they are able to make HUGE changes like in LSA?
How does anyone expect me to accept that?

Is it betrayal?
I don't think so nor do I have any idea on that.

Is it Sloppy?
You bet it is!

The argument by some here that Mods from CCV should NOT be ported to the re-releases is just down right stupid.
I want those Mods with the new features.
I just hope those doing it are able and willing to do so.
I.E. New maps and BG's for the expanded slots.Even if it means borrowing a few maps to fill it for the time being.
Lots of work I know and NO I don't expect it to be done quickly but if over time can be done than WOW I like it.
It's NOT that freaking hard to name the new downloads so others don't get confused OR MAYBE,maybe even put them in a new section for download! Huh wow look at that idea,yes,yes very special over here aren't I?  Laughing
Uh Hu,Uh Hu

What is a cluster Fuck INMHO is are we using Bernard's Mod installer or ModSwap?
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AT_Stalky

Rep: 27.4
votes: 10


PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:28 pm Post subject: Re: Warning to New Close Combat Players Reply with quote

Hi there

Funny, I always thought they would make CC6, but I never expected much of it though. I dint expect it to be no more than a pale mod of CC5/TLD/etc, with some new opus.

platoon_michael wrote (View Post):
And I don't recall any promises by Matrix for CCVI,where is that thread?


They have done that many times:

Qoute of Sulla - Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:28 pm ::
Hia Guys,

Ok, the for and against on any re-release has been gone over ad-nauseum. Simple, vote with you wallet ;)

CC6 is happening and is already underway! This will be a bigger advance than seen in any previous version jump before. Much bigger than CC2 to 3 or 4 to 5. This is not only off the drawing board but underway. Not giving too much away, but it will have 5 seperate campaigns and a whole raft of new stuff.

Work will also be starting on what will effectively be CC7. New engine, but CC to the core!

On any testers etc, you all know who you are and NDA's are there for a reason guys! Tak and all of the testers do a very good job and I am bloody sure will have fun testing CC6.

Sulla

/end quote

This is not the only post, far from it.
Funny, 4 years ago in 2007 Sulla said that CC6 was of the drawingbord and on the way, and CC6 game testing was on the table.
Seem they also work on CC7... ... ... .... Maybe we even will have CC7 before CC6... .. .. ... .. .. . .
Or was that all just a ..... ?

for thouse of you who dont know who Sulla is:
http://www.linkedin.com/in/shaunwallace
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/showProfile.asp?memid=2777
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:21 pm Post subject: Re: Warning to New Close Combat Players Reply with quote

In every day Software development, teams usually encounter a pure porting project of one kind or another. Generally an application is being ported from one operating system to another, or environment if you will. During these projects, the programmers, always start recommending that NEW FEATURES, be included in the otherwise fairly straight forwad port project.

The re-releases are classic examples, where the additional scope creep of NEW FEATURES, kinda messed up the fairly simple port project.

Now that the new features exist, of course, we need to port the other mods to the new re-release, of course.

But, it would have been much simpler, and almost as good, had CC5 just been patched, and made to work with the new Direct X. The mods would still not be compatible with that version of CC5, because any changes in the Direct X function calls, would have caused different locations for the (up to then), hacked variables internal to the exe file.

Nevertheless, the entire arrangement, could have been accomplished within a year. And bringing the mods over a NO BRAINER. But MATRIX, like most going concerns, was just as interested, in applying their business model, to the CC games. So PROFIT was a consideration. I do not doubt, Sulla, had the best of intentions regarding CC6 or CC7.  Laughing

The one constant, with this game, its been a decade of dissapointment. I got CCMT, but you could almost argue, it was not a re-release.  Question
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Sapa

Rep: 76.3
votes: 8


PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: Warning to New Close Combat Players Reply with quote

Its nice to have found other interests in life...was a pain to leave it but now it feels rather good...
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schrecken

Rep: 195
votes: 15


PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:10 pm Post subject: Re: Warning to New Close Combat Players Reply with quote

Quote:
was a pain to leave it



No, you are still here.

You were just in remission
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US_Brake

Rep: 24.2
votes: 22


PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:20 pm Post subject: Re: Warning to New Close Combat Players Reply with quote

Perfecting KZ's Masterpiece?

The obsessive quest for the perfect Close Combat Game?

Poison, Madness, and Vanity.

I prefer the elusive search for the quality online game experience.




Close Combat's most infamous SOB
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Sapa

Rep: 76.3
votes: 8


PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:37 pm Post subject: Re: Warning to New Close Combat Players Reply with quote

schrecken wrote (View Post):
Quote:
was a pain to leave it



No, you are still here.

You were just in remission


ahh thought i heard a bzzz sound....maybe it was the cockroach off the close combat commuity,  i wish it was summer and i could find one and step on it...
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schrecken

Rep: 195
votes: 15


PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:12 am Post subject: Re: Warning to New Close Combat Players Reply with quote

It is Summer!
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