Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:02 pm Post subject: Heated religious discussions (caused by MF)
The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." (Psalms 14:1; 53:1)
The spiritually blind, the short sighted say: "show me God and i will believe"
Here is a parable:
There were millions of enzymes living in the stomach of an elephant.
An enlightenned enzyme said:
"We live inside an elephant, without it, we would not exist"
An extremely ignorant enzyme said to the others:
"I dont believe in this elephant, it is an imaginary creature, show it to me and i will believe"
The elephant is simply way to big for the enzyme to see, his universe is the elephant's stomach and he can see no further.
The truth is; that we exist within the confines of the Universe and, because God is infinte, the Universe exists only within God.
God, being infinite, has no outer boundary, therefore anything thats exists can only exist within.
God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us 'For in him we live and move and have our being.' .(Acts 17:27f).
@ MajorFrank
You started this thread to argue that Christians were insulting and hypocytical.
You last post has proved you to be the hypocrite, clearly your motivation is only to cause trouble by insulting people who believe in the reality of God
Get a life!
If you wake up to reality, you may even get an eternal life
Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:47 pm Post subject: Re: Heated religious discussions (caused by MF)
Quote:
When one person talks to imaginary creatures, we call that person crazy. When million people talk to the same imaginary creatures, we call that a religion.
You last post has proved you to be the hypocrite, clearly your motivation is only to cause trouble by insulting people who believe in the reality of God
AGS What the difference from what Major Frank said and what you said before:
The Catholic Church is not what Christianity is about, it has nothing to do with me or my faith and i have nothing to do with it.If you have a problem with Catholicism, thats fine, so do i, we are on the same side (kind of)
The Westburro baptist church are a hate cult and have no friends in the Australian Baptist Union of which my local church is a member.
You actually agrees with Major Frank, in all ways but one.
Your opinion seem to be that other people who have a religion are talking to imaginary creatures …. Or "belive" in Christ in the wrong way.
So the only difference with your opinions compared to MajorFranks, seem to be that MajorFrank reject 100% of religious beliefs as imaginary. While you rejects all religions and beliefs as imaginary, well, except you Baptist church, who got it right?
Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:31 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions
The Yankee founding-father Freemasons had it right. Politics and the State don't mix. The State has abused their power countless times in the name of "religion" to justify crimes against humanity or oppression of various peoples. People should be free to practice their particular religion as they wish. But don't try to base political policies or doctrine based on some Fundamentalist radical agenda.
Religious Fundamentalists are one of the main reasons why some parts of the world are stuck in the stone age...they refuse to accept any modern doctrines such as
Science, Education, or practice responsible birth control. Religious tolerance is completely absent. You either accept the State Religious rule or suffer the wraith of the totalitarian regime. Even the people are blood-thirsty mobs that relish the chance to enforce the Fundamentalist rules. They hate democracy, they hate freedom, they hate anyone that dares to have have any dissenting viewpoints.
Admittedly there are numerous factions even here in America that are stuck over a century in the past and would even like to turn the clock back further. Yes and it amazes me how Cult-like factions that hide behind tax-exempt status and call themselves righteous...when they advocate hate, violence or some other twisted agenda. One fundamentalist nut I know even told me that he thinks it is justified to kill political enemies and that "there will be blood". Nuts. I try to avoid these types at all costs.
If you look into it I'm sure you'll find out that the leaders of your religion actually co-operate with other religions. That's how it works on the 'macro' level. So it's not like you say, that your religion would be somehow opposed to, say, Jehova's Witnesses. They all co-operate.
i doubt if it is possible to explain it to you so that you could comprehend it
Impressive arguments.
Actually I don’t get it AGS.
You feel insulted when MajorFrank say ALL religious people talking to imaginary creatures.
He’s an atheist, as such he obviously sees no difference between the people who talk to an “imaginary” friend and the people who talks to imaginary gods. This is probably what defines an atheists beliefs, anything else would make no sense.
Why are you offended by this?
At the same time:
You your self has dismissed all path to god as imaginary if one don’t accept Jesus as god’s son and all that. That means that in your view Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hindu’s, Stalkys and all other religion are just imaginary or do not lead to god. Thus they are just imaginary paths to god or just simply imaginary gods.
Further more: In this thread alone you have also claimed that “Catholic Church is not what Christianity is about” and that Jehovah Witnesses and WB Baptists and other gropes are “blasphemous teachings” and cults.
What puzzles me is that You felt offended by MajorFranks thought that all gods are imaginary, but at the same time...
If we look at what Major Frank say, he rejects 100% of religions as imaginary.
In this regard, the only difference between you and Major frank seems to be the percent level of rejection.
You reject more or less the vast majority of religious believers in the same way as MajorFrank does.
If you look into it I'm sure you'll find out that the leaders of your religion actually co-operate with other religions. That's how it works on the 'macro' level. So it's not like you say, that your religion would be somehow opposed to, say, Jehova's Witnesses. They all co-operate.
So, MF, you are one of conspiracy theorists guys
Well, they don't "all co-operate" that is just your imaginary friend telling you that ;)
AGS What the difference from what Major Frank said and what you said before:
umm, i didn't say anything about anybody talking to imaginary creatures
Lets look at how you say i agree with MF:
MF says there is no God and that God is an imaginary creature
AGS totally refutes what MF says, because AGS believes that there is a God and agrees in the reality of God with, 13.4 million Jews, 1.6 billion Muslims and approximately 2.2 billion Christians, which even includes the Westburro Baptist Church (AGS disagrees with some of the WBC's contraversial, unChristian doctrines)
You feel insulted when MajorFrank say ALL religious people talking to imaginary creatures.
He’s an atheist, as such he obviously sees no difference between the people who talk to an “imaginary” friend and the people who talks to imaginary gods. This is probably what defines an atheists beliefs, anything else would make no sense.
Why are you offended by this?
Who said i felt insulted, or was offended?
Maybe some readers, who were just simply too shocked to react and did not respond were, offended or felt insulted.
Pretty sure those people probably thought:
"If i ignore the troll, it may just go away"
Myself, i thought i would just let MF know that i saw him for what he was:
somebody who is looking for a heated political/religious discussion.
in your view Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hindu’s, Stalkys and all other religion are just imaginary
No, i don't think those religions are imaginary, with one exception, they are all real religions
(actually, i think the Stalkys religion is a bit suspect)
You actually agrees with Major Frank, in all ways but one
Correct,we agree that the sky is blue, we agree that there are 24 hours in a day, we agree that politics & religion dont mix, we agree that Close Combat games are fun, but MF says there is no God and i say there is a God.
While you rejects all religions and beliefs as imaginary, well, except your Baptist church,
Actually, I dont reject everybody except my Baptist church.
For example, i believe that there will be millions of Catholics in heaven.
Yes, i dont want to be mistaken for a catholic, nor do i want criticisms of the Catholic church to be aimed at me.
In fact i agree with 90-99% of the doctrine of all Christian churches.
Not all false doctrines will impede salvation.
If you look into it I'm sure you'll find out that the leaders of your religion actually co-operate with other religions. That's how it works on the 'macro' level. So it's not like you say, that your religion would be somehow opposed to, say, Jehova's Witnesses. They all co-operate.
So, MF, you are one of conspiracy theorists guys
Well, they don't "all co-operate" that is just your imaginary friend telling you that ;)
cheers
AGS
It's not a conspiracy theory, it's a fact. Don't take my word for it, just look into the matter, for example the leaders of your religion.
All Abrahamic religions co-operate very closely and even the more distant religions co-operate in some way.
And "Rev Dr John Beasy" is the 'leader' of your religion?
And btw, why do you talk about "god" all the time? This "god" - figure isn't the only supernatural creature in your religion. So it's not only about a "belief in god" but a belief in the whole religion that has all kinds of weird supernatural creatures in it. And for your reference, I'm certainly not the only one who doesn't believe in that jazz.
Seriously, when you make such broad claims, statements and accusations in online forums, i would not be the least bit surprised that some people may have questioned your intelectual capabilities in somewhat sarcastic or demeaning ways
etc..
Seems like comments by a person who is insulted and feel offended?
Muslims say God's existance is a reality Catholics say God's existance is a reality Jews say God's existance is a reality WBC says God's existance is a reality AGS says God's existance is a reality
If we are for God, we will accept His Son Jesus the Christ and then its all good
etc..
So the path to god through other religion are just imaginary according to you, so...
As I can see, the only diff between what you say and MF say is thus the percentage level of rejection.
Maybe some readers, who were just simply too shocked to react and did not respond
So you belive that readers are shocked and paralyzed after reading MajorFranks statement that god is imagenary !?!!!? Who in this world would be shocked when an atheist say god is imaginary??????! I don’t really know what to say. ... ..
Maybe some readers, who were just simply too shocked to react and did not respond were, offended or felt insulted. Pretty sure those people probably thought: "If i ignore the troll, it may just go away"
Ever thought about how a a Jew, or Hindu, or Buddhist, Catholic, WB Baptist, Scientology or Jehovah’s or any other religion you have issues with will react to what you say?!
I believe that most moderate/tolerant believers of any religion would have more problem listen to a hardcore fundamentalist belonging to there own religion than listen to an atheist.
Seems like comments by a person who is insulted and feel offended
LOOK HERE, i will answer only your very 1st piece of trollop
After that 1st bit, i decided not to bother reading the rest of the post because it would be an utter waste of my time.
Now i am utterly wasting my time by answering the just the beginning of Stalky's post
your motivation is only to cause trouble by insulting people who believe in the reality of God
See, i was right, it is a total waste of my time trying explain anything to you because you seem completely unable to comprehend even simple things
now i will spell it out to you
I WAS POINTING OUT THAT HIS MOTIVATION WAS ONLY TO CAUSE TROUBLE BY INSULTING PEOPLE
CLEARLY I DID NOT SAY: that "i FELT INSULTED", or"I WAS OFFENDED",IN THE QUOTE
So your quote of me was only evidence of your lack of,...,hmm, lets say,.. wisdom (could have put many words there, but i opted for the least offensive)
You are just insulting your own intelligence by making foolish assumptions thus making a fool of yourself publically.
The question was rhetorical (get a dictionary and look it up)
OK, now that i have established your last post began with utter #@%&*$@# and having experienced enough of Stalky's trollop before, i was convinced the rest of the post would be more #@%&*$@#, so i chose not to continue reading any further as it would be a total uttter waste of my time reading more trollop, just as it would also be a total, uttter waste of my time to contemplate answerring it.
@ Stalky
If you make a short post with just one question, an intelligent question, i will answer it, if, i have the time.
Stalky, is your goal/aim just to annoy me?
(please dont jump to the foolish assumption that you have suceeded yet, you are just becoming tiresome)
AGS
P.S. please reread my previous post to you 1000 times, maybe then, you will "get it"
Seems like comments by a person who is insulted and feel offended
LOOK HERE, i will answer only your very 1st piece of trollop
After that 1st bit, i decided not to bother reading the rest of the post because it would be an utter waste of my time.
Now i am utterly wasting my time by answering the just the beginning of Stalky's post
your motivation is only to cause trouble by insulting people who believe in the reality of God
See, i was right, it is a total waste of my time trying explain anything to you because you seem completely unable to comprehend even simple things
now i will spell it out to you
I WAS POINTING OUT THAT HIS MOTIVATION WAS ONLY TO CAUSE TROUBLE BY INSULTING PEOPLE
CLEARLY I DID NOT SAY: that "i FELT INSULTED", or"I WAS OFFENDED",IN THE QUOTE
So your quote of me was only evidence of your lack of,...,hmm, lets say,.. wisdom (could have put many words there, but i opted for the least offensive)
You are just insulting your own intelligence by making foolish assumptions thus making a fool of yourself publically.
The question was rhetorical (get a dictionary and look it up)
OK, now that i have established your last post began with utter #@%&*$@# and having experienced enough of Stalky's trollop before, i was convinced the rest of the post would be more #@%&*$@#, so i chose not to continue reading any further as it would be a total uttter waste of my time reading more trollop, just as it would also be a total, uttter waste of my time to contemplate answerring it.
@ Stalky
If you make a short post with just one question, an intelligent question, i will answer it, if, i have the time.
Stalky, is your goal/aim just to annoy me?
(please dont jump to the foolish assumption that you have suceeded yet, you are just becoming tiresome)
AGS
P.S. please reread my previous post to you 1000 times, maybe then, you will "get it"
Mate, when reading what you say here in this thread, you come across to me as insulted and offended and heated up.
Quote:
@ Stalky
If you make a short post with just one question, an intelligent question, i will answer it, if, i have the time.
So you allow me to ask you one more question. Thank you.
Actually I pass on that offer, your last post pretty much say it all and thus answer most of my questions, in a way.
Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:54 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions
Stalk if your running a book on this ( here we call it sp... starting price... were do i get on ?) some good odds there but will need to collect before mid December as my god said so.... is that ok? just need to cover all contingencies. you know, rather have that in my pocket come the rapture and all...
Mate, when reading what you say here in this thread, you come across to me as insulted and offended and heated up.
If believing that makes you happy, then go ahead and believe that.
It takes a LOT more than the stuff in this thread to insult me, or get me "heated up"....
Why?
Because i work in an abbatoir, where as a Christian, i cop truckloads of verbal abuse every day.
For me, some of the worst insults are like "water slipping off a duck's back" (ducks are waterproof)
Also, i have an extrordinarily long temper. (Sometimes i wish it was shorter).
But neither do i bottle up stress, i let it out when the need be.
So sorry to dissappoint you, but just go on believing whatever you wish.
So you allow me to ask you one more question. Thank you.
Actually I pass on that offer.
Thankyou, that is pleasing news
This great, because now this means i can devote more time to productive activities like modding,
Oh, i will answer majorFrank's last post because it deserves an answer, despite its basis in conspiracist theorum
your last post pretty much say it all and thus answer most of my questions, in a way.
Like i said before, just go on believing whatever you wish.
Your posts have led me to believe it is a waste of time answering your many questions, because, you will continue to believe whatever suits you to believe regardless.........
All Abrahamic religions co-operate very closely and even the more distant religions co-operate in some way. .
Hmmm, yes, if you call the Israeli-Arab wars 1949-1973 co-operation .
Yes, they agreed to fight and kill each other.
The Jewish soldier co-operated with the Muslim soldier by falling down dead when the muslim shot him
Or maybe you speak of the Bahai faith which tries to amalgamate all religions.
Yes, at various times different religions do actually try to get along
Well, i don't regard my faith as religion par se as religion is defined as:
Man's efforts to reach God,
Whereas true Christianity is:
recognition of God's successfull reaching down to man through Jesus Christ.
But, yes, that is the organisation that the church i attend is a member of.
And "Rev Dr John Beasy" is the 'leader' of your religion?.
No, Rev Dr John Beasy would just be the head administrator of the Union of Australian Baptist Churches.
God, is the ultimate leader of my/our faith. Particularly it is Jesus, who is the author and perfecter of our faith, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. (Hebrews 12:2)
So it's not like you say, that your religion would be somehow opposed to, say, Jehova's Witnesses. They all co-operate.
Actually, we do not co-operate with the Jehova's Witnesses. If they come and knock on our doors, we can talk to them, but we are not to invite them into our homes (don't ask, its a long storey 2John1:7-11)
And btw, why do you talk about "god" all the time? This "god" - figure isn't the only supernatural creature in your religion.
Correct, God is just the only eternal spiritual being. The only infinite being.
All other spiritual/supernatural beings were created by Him.
There are, at least, millions, if not billions of them, maybe even trillions!
The 2nd most powerful spiritual/supernatural being is, of course, Lucifer/Satan (the devil).
One third of these spiritual/supernatural beings are under Satans command (evil spirits/demons)
I don't think the Arab-Israeli wars were necessarily wars of religion. I'd say that even during those wars the 'elders' of Islam and Judaism were probably still communicating and dealing with each other. I think nationalism was the main issue and driving force during those conflicts, and still is.
Interesting you guys still preach about Lucifer, hell, etc. I think in ev. lut. faith that I was in, hell hasn't really been a part of the sermons etc. for a long time. Preaching about hell kinda makes the difference between the more extreme and less extreme forms of Christianity.
AT_Stalky,
personally I don't really care much or really at all what religious people think. I used to belong to the ev. lut. church of Finland when I was a kid, only left officially in 2000.
I've been a part of an organisation called Freethinkers, not an official member but I've contributed to their site etc. I enjoy discussing about non-religion with non-religious people, I rarely have disagreements with them.
I don't think the Arab-Israeli wars were necessarily wars of religion. I'd say that even during those wars the 'elders' of Islam and Judaism were probably still communicating and dealing with each other. I think nationalism was the main issue and driving force during those conflicts, and still is.
Maybe it could be nationalism to some small extent, but if the israelis were muslims, do you really think the Islamic neighbors would still be making such a fuss?
Just look at Syria!
The Muslim nations a just sitting around doing bugger all, while the Syrian government slaughters more muslims every day that the Jewish Israelis kill Palestinians in a year!
They just say: "Stop that, don't be so naughty".
The Jews and Muslims only co-operate in mutual destruction
Obviously Finland has not got a significant growing islamic invasion happenning yet.
In Australia, our secular (atheist) government is co-operating with the islamic illegal immigrants and is bending over and allowing them to islamify Australia because of "Political Correctness" which mean that minorites have extra rights and special treatment that the rest of us don't get.
Interesting you guys still preach about Lucifer, hell, etc. I think in ev. lut. faith that I was in, hell hasn't really been a part of the sermons etc. for a long time. Preaching about hell kinda makes the difference between the more extreme and less extreme forms of Christianity.
Who preaches Hell?
Personally, i only preach about eternal life
Also, personally i don't adhere to the outdated TORMENT doctrine of HELL which involves eternal torment in hell for those who reject God's generous offer of eternal life.
Rather, i accept the PERISH doctrine of HELL, where atheists will eventually get what they now already expect, a big nothing!,
But only after discovering that they could have had eternal life had they listenned to the people they ridiculed.
There is an abundance of scriptural evidence that supports the PERISH doctrine.
Matthew 10:28; Luke 13:3; John 3:16; John 10:28; Romans 2:12; 1Corinthians 1:18; 2Corinthians 4:3; Galalatians 6:8; 2Thessalonians 2:3,10; 2 Peter 3:9;
cheers
AGS
EDIT
Sorry, i never actually finished this post. Got a call from my darling wife and just posted this post without finishing it, with the intension of completing it after we got back last night
OOPS
OK, back to hell
Yes, i believe in a dimension (not so much a place) which is Hell/Hades and yes, the unGodly do end up staying there, in torment, for a period , that must seem like an eternity, as they await..
JUDGEMENT DAY
During the Great White Throne Judgement (Revelations20) they will have a short reprieve before being reinstalled into hell where they will finally perish
So, i think of Hell being much like the Recycle Bin on your PC.
After Judgement Day (this is figurative of course), God uses his mouse to click on the Recycle Bin icon, then (because He likes using the keyboard), He presses the keys:
ALT - F - B - Y
Then all the atheists and all the other eternal losers will be gone.....
FOREVER!
(thats like permanently man)
The moral of this story is...........................
DONT BE AN ETERNAL LOSER!
ACCEPT GOD'S GENEROUS OFFER
ADMIT YOU ARE NOT PERFECT
ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST'S VICARIOUS SACRIFICE ON YOUR BEHALF
THATS PAYS FOR ALL YOUR FAILINGS AND IMPERFECTIONS
THEN CELEBRATE THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE LIFE TO THE FULLEST
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