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MF_Church

Rep: 26


PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:55 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

Perish ~ the thought !

Either 'Way' hell or nothingness means No Bliss for all eternity.  <Kinda sounds hellish-like ?

In my 35 yr out of 57 yrs of being 'born again' I must confess that my opinion --- of an actual place for the doomed & damned and then that place being tossed into a literal lake of fire forever did start to wane in strength.  God's Goodness and Love & Grace over those 3 and 1/2 decades made me sway my 'belief' away from those horrible thoughts.

But recently, i've changed back.  

I can see God allowing a 'place' for completely & totally Evil beings we call demons / fallen angels & Satan / Devil.  But humans?  Even humans that reject God's RESCUE (Jesus's death on the cross) attempt from our own 'fallenNess'

But stories of near death experiness & alleged Trips to heaven & hell via UnFallen Angels & Jesus have a terrible 'ring' of truth to them.  :(

If individuals have had their God 'antennas restored and the gift of eternal Life (the Holy Spirit) placed within their spirits then He (the Spirit of Truth) mission to lead that individual into All truth will Witness to those above stories etc.

I ask--- is the unpardonable sin -  denying the Truth revealed by that Spirit? of Truth.

So be careful people.  And don't react or decide too quickly or out of hand.  Take and give time for the truth to sink.. in.

On another note.  

Take the letter 'H' from the beginning of the word  heart
And place it at the end.

The word 'heart' has 2 words within it.  

Hear

ear

And the peoples on this planet are called  ' ear thlings

Jesus is called the 'Word' of God.

And He said, "To those who have 'ears' to hear."

Listen.  And be still b4 God.  And tell Him what you start to feel.  You maybe surprised to find that He is waiting and listening.

:)
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MF_Church

Rep: 26


PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:43 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

I've enjoyed ArmeeGS input tremendously.

On a much lighter note, i'd like to draw attention to a Utube clip of Star Trek starting at 17sec. into it till about 2mins 40secs.  :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okFCpE2Li9s&feature=relmfu

well, Enjoy! Everyone.

;)  :D

Please Forgive for the opening passionate kiss scene of about 16 secs.

Tks! and again... pause and move forward about 17secs. !
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MajorFrank

Rep: 41.8
votes: 6


PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

AGS,

ok first you go on a rant about "muslimification" or whatever and then you go on a fantastical and completely nutty diatribe about imaginary stuff. I wonder if you have any way of understanding how absurd and farcical that is at the same time.

As I've said before, you're welcome to stop co-operating with the Muslims through your religion whenever you feel like it.

And btw, wasn't Australia orginally populated by the aboriginals? And you guys came over as...oh yea, immigrants. Some even as prisoners, uuh. Some moral high horse you have there.

MF_Church,

do you think it's because a person is advanced in age that they begin to worry about the possibility of hell etc.? That's one way that religions target the weak, they go after the old and the infirm in hopes of gleaning some money out of them.

- MajorFrank, Your Friendly Neighbourhood Non-believer
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MF_Church

Rep: 26


PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:25 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

Well, I was 22 yrs old when I had an empirical knowledge of God/Jesus/Holy Spirit.

Still hadn't been in a 'church' either.

I had never even met a born again christian.

A friend (that Finnish buddy) had become a believer.  He never spoke a single word from the bible to me or for that matter anything on the subject.  I did ask what changed his mind cuz he had been anti christian b4 and gave me a pocketbook about a P K.'s personal testimony.  (P=preacher K=kid)

Apparently, some P.K. are very angry at God etc.  Made for a great read.

I then asked my friend if he had a bible.  I had never read one and thought later how strange that was cuz I had read every other so called holy book(s) out there & spiritual subject I ran across.  Cept the bible.

I skipped to the last 'book' Revelation in the bible and was floored.  Powerful.  But more than that... had a ring of truth to every part of it.  

Went to a book store to get a copy of P.K. story and ended up with another book and saying a small prayer in the back of the store.  

I left that store 6 ft high !  Light and happy.  Christ was real to me!  

Next morning i woke up and instantly thought, was it 'real'?  Did i imagine it all?

And sensed His presence still there within me.  And every day since.  35 yrs.

:)
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ArmeeGruppeSud

Rep: 9.5
votes: 7


PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:04 pm Post subject: MajorFlamer seeks Heated religious discussions Reply with quote

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
ok first you go on a rant about "muslimification" or whatever
 LOL
{1}If it were happenning in Finland like it is here, you  certainly would not be attacking the Christians anymore!
You would be asking why your Government is spending 10 times as much money (or more) on each illegal Muslim immigrant to make them happy, than it spends on each Finnish born citizen.

{2}One sentence does not a "rant" make. Get a dictionary and use English correctly MajorFlamer.
(You dont see me missusing the Finnish language)  Wink

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
then you go on a fantastical and completely nutty diatribe about imaginary stuff.
{3} Now to correct you once again:
The following 2 quotes actually are genuine examples of fantastical and completely nutty diatribe about imaginary stuff
MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
If you look into it I'm sure you'll find out that the leaders of your religion actually co-operate with other religions. That's how it works on the 'macro' level. So it's not like you say, that your religion would be somehow opposed to, say, Jehova's Witnesses. They all co-operate.
MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
All Abrahamic religions co-operate very closely and even the more distant religions co-operate in some way.


wonder if you have any way of understanding how absurd and farcical that is at the same time.

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
As I've said before, you're welcome to stop co-operating with the Muslims through your religion whenever you feel like it.
PMSL

And you are welcome to stop dancing with the fairies whenever you feel like it



MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
And btw, wasn't Australia orginally populated by the aboriginals? And you guys came over as...oh yea, immigrants. Some even as prisoners, uuh.
Yes and i would rather our government spend the MILLIONS of dollars on making the lives of the Aboriginals better
INSTEAD of making sure that the ILLEGAL muslim immigrants have: every modern convenience, Flat screen digital TVs, mobile phones, broadband internet access, free medical and psychological counselling services.

ALL THIS!, while many Aboriginies (Australian citizens) dont even have basic amenities!

What really makes you trying to use the Aboriginies as a comparison, even more absurd and farcical, is that the Aboriginies have never payed taxes to pay for our luxuries.

It appears that your ignorance of relevant facts is only overshadowed by your delusions about religions colluding and conspiring together plotting how they can join forces to get all MajorFlamer's money  Shocked

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
Some moral high horse you have there.
OH MajorFlamer  Surprised

It is YOU who are sitting in the seat of JUDGMENTALNESS  Rolling Eyes

If only you would climb down off your moral high horse, go see an optometrist and then you would realise that the person that you see on that judgemental moral high horse is your own reflection in a mirror
Rolling Eyes   Wink

cheers

AGS

P.S. From a Psychoanalytical view, you appear to have a problem with "Projecting"  Very Happy

.


@ AT_Stalky, do you WANT, or NEED, islamic influence in your society?

This question is NOT Rhetorical!

STILL WAITING FOR YOUR ANSWER
.
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MajorFrank

Rep: 41.8
votes: 6


PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

AGS,

by rant I meant everything you wrote after the "edit" - part. Bunch of fantastical baloney.

As for the Muslim immigration issue, tough. I guess you don't have a problem with immigration in general, or even imperialist politics that contain the genocidal destruction of native populations.

As for the religions cooperating - issue, it's true especially for the big religions. Smaller sects like Jehowa's Witnesses etc. try to get a 'market share' from the bigger religions. They all work against their common enemy which is global secularisation.

About modern psychoanalytics, I doubt you actually meant what you said. Because if you truly subscribe to the teachings of your quite extreme religion, then it would be completely impossible for you to agree with modern psychology. So, that's that.

Ta ta.

- MF
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ArmeeGruppeSud

Rep: 9.5
votes: 7


PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:09 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
by rant I meant everything you wrote after the "edit" - part. Bunch of fantastical baloney.
Well you brought up the topic of HELL, so, being a congenial and transparent person, i let you know what my personal view of HELL was.

After that, i fullfilled my Christian duty/responsability in Proclaiming the Good news of salvation to you and to all other readers.

Now if you don't accept God's offer, your eternal loss is entirely on your own head..., not mine.
God won't say to me;
"They/he could have been saved if you had told them".

for "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in?
And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard?
And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?
(Romans 10:13-14)

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
As for the Muslim immigration issue, tough. I guess you don't have a problem with immigration in general, or even imperialist politics that contain the genocidal destruction of native populations.
Well the Imperialism we had here was a little before my time. Yes, our forebares were a little mean to the original inhabitants of Australia (not my fault).
The aboriginals, have more rights and benefits than the rest of the Australian population
(except, of course, the illegal immigrants)

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
About modern psychoanalytics, I doubt you actually meant what you said. Because if you truly subscribe to the teachings of your quite extreme religion, then it would be completely impossible for you to agree with modern psychology.
Actually, when i was at Bible college studying a degree in "Christian Counselling" we studied all the various disciplines of Counselling Psychology, among them: Rogerian, Freud, Jung, Family Sytems therapy, and my personal favourite: Albert Ellis'es Rational Emotive Therapy (RET) along with a swathe of other Cognitive Behavioural therapies .
Of course we also studied the work of notable Christian Counsellors such as Dr. Lawrence Crabb, David Seamunds, Jay E. Adams, Gary R.Colins, and of course Selwyn Hughes.

Modern Christian Counselling is very eklectic.

Of course we cannot agree with EVERYTHING that modern psychology says about every topic.

Modern psychology, like most sciences, had its begginings within Christian institutions  Very Happy

Both modern secular psychology and modern christian psychology learn from one another and both benefit from one another's research.

Yes, Projecting, IS, a recognised dysfunctional behaviour within Christian Psychology Very Happy SO THERE!  Razz

CHEERS

AGS


@ AT_Stalky, do you WANT, or NEED, islamic influence in your society?

This question is NOT Rhetorical!

STILL WAITING FOR YOUR ANSWER
.
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MF_Church

Rep: 26


PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:27 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

Finally some Good News!  for  America.

A born again Jew & a born again Arab!

Watch and ENJOY!  :D

http://www.sidroth.org/site/News2?abbr=tv_&page=NewsArticle&id=11647
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MF_Church

Rep: 26


PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:40 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

I heard something nice the other day about... Jesus.

Back in the old testament 'days' a person would bring a lamb to the priest.

The priest wouldn't look at the person.  He knew why they were there...   Did something wrong - sinned.

Instead he would examine the lamb for imperfections, blemishes or spots etc.

When we come to God today it's the same.   He knows why you are there...  Goofed or some mistake and all round just plain fall short of God's (best) Glory.

But God doesn't look at you.  He looks at Jesus our RIGHTEOUSNESS.   The perfect 'Lamb of GOD' that takes away the sin(S) of the whole world said, John the Baptiser.

To as many as RECEIVE Him to those gave He the power (Holy Spirit) to become children of God - new creatures, new creation by His transforming Spirit in ours said the other John (apostle).

Remember, if and when we come before God one day ~ either Jesus is our sin offering or we are.

Our God is a consuming fire wrote apostle Paul.  

And when sin comes before God the Father He must destroy that completely.  :(

So know that your sins are all forgiven at the cross.   Except one.  

Not believing - that they were.

Receive the gracious Gift of eternal Life of His Spirit.

He / She who has the Son, has life.
He / She who doesn't ~ have the Son
doesn't.   quote- Jesus C.

Enjoy!
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MajorFrank

Rep: 41.8
votes: 6


PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:43 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

"Lalli is an apocryphal character from Finnish history. According to legend, he killed Bishop Henry on the ice of lake Köyliönjärvi in Finland on January 20, 1156."

The Swedish bishop was trying to bring christianity to Finland. Not particularily wise, he was beheaded.

Here's a painting of the incident.

"In the television series Suuret suomalaiset – the Finnish version of 100 Greatest Britons – Lalli was chosen as the 14th greatest Finn."

Still very popular.
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Blackstump

Rep: 24.5
votes: 1


PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:43 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

pvt_Grunt wrote (View Post):
I try to think twice, or three times before going into these topics, luckilly though, I'm ALWAYS right, so that helps  Wink

I thought i was wrong once... but i was only "mistaken"...


"percute et percute velociter"
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Fiestita

Rep: 6.2
votes: 2


PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:07 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

I live in a Christian catholic country and my family is fierce catholic believer, and they forced me to receive communion at age of 10. I also live in a country that despite the fact that Catholicism is it's main religion, allows it's people to believe whatever they want unless they decide to take part in any political charge. Then it is common here to have muslims and jews living next door without throwing grenades each other like television shows us that happen in Israel and Palestine.

As I grew up, decided to not believe in anything. You may ask why?

Well, let's see. First of all there are more chinese in the world than any other people, and China has also its own variety of religions. Then you have black africans, that also have a lot of religions and believes, also very different from each other. Finally there are quite a lot of muslims and arabs, probably more than christians. So who's right?

Christians burned Galileo Galilei and Jean D'arc. Muslims cut off women' clitoris. Arabs cut thieves' hands and drown cheating housewives and chinese or hindu surely have their own atrocities to humand kind.

None of these believes are based in some sort of divine word in my opinion. They've been all thought and planned to take advantage of mass handling like Marx wrote once.

If any of these religions were right, well, there would be A LOT of wrong people, and that may be impossible, or is there anyone who denies the spherical form of earth?

Think about all these things, it then make sense not to believe in anything.

Then I do believe in good and evil and that there HAS TO BE some kind of code of laws or regulations between humans, because that's what keep us from chaos. Put two people in a small room with an only knife and await what happens: sooner or later one of them will cut the other's throat.
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Blackstump

Rep: 24.5
votes: 1


PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:50 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

Well said Fiestita..
There are at least two of us with the same philosophy in this world.
Strange how we seem to still have the same morals of live and let live, without a "guiding light" showing us a "path".
I like to think that i'm as decent as any righteous religious individual, without any Muppet telling me what i need to do to find salvation.


"percute et percute velociter"
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Panzermayer

Rep: 12


PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 10:14 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

Probaly most people, , at least in the civilized part of the world, that call themself religious understand that they are part of a massive entity that defaces themselves and people with other views, beliefs or thoughts. BUT religious people always makes it right in there own head. They make there own reality in which religous believes makes them whole as a person and makes them function as part of society. Even if the religion clearly has a negative impact on society. They will not, and cannot, be shaken from there own narrow minded views. And if you want to leave your religion, you get a death warrent like in the religion of peace islam.
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dj

Rep: 118.5
votes: 7


PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:17 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

America's Freemasons, yes Freemasons, founding fathers had it right. That's one of the main reasons why so many fled to the New World.  Virtually all the founding fathers were non-religious Freemasons...including the "Father" himself George Washington.  Yet various factions in America constantly try to reinvent history and make believe their own facts.  We are indoctrinated into thinking the "Christian" Puritans and other sects were the founding fathers, when in reality they were just one of numerous settlers.  

Meanwhile we have the Mormon Mitt Romney managing to stick the proverbial foot in mouth traveling to London.  Mitt has a special way with people, managing to disrespect the London officials.  Prompting a cynical response from the Mayor.  Allegedly the Mormons believe the "holy land" is not Jerusalem but in Utah, they believe "heaven" is a specific distant planet inhabited by Joe Smith himself, among other controversial beliefs.  Not trying to be a hater...just trying to make sense of what many claim is a Cult.  Are Freemasons a Cult or is Mormonism?  I am not to judge but the difference is that Freemason believed in the principle of separation of Church / State whereas Joe Smith advocated the opposite with ideal of "theodemocratic" Kingdom of God.


What will the Revolution Change? - Youth Brigade
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Fiestita

Rep: 6.2
votes: 2


PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:31 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

What I never understood if why if muslims, christians and jews hate each other so much to kill each other in other parts of the world, that doesn't happen in Argentina. Also here there is no discrimination at all between blacks and whites. Maybe it's due to the essence of the country conceived as a full immigration packages, that did not put any restrictions in who and from where came to live. We have other problems like poverty but no religion wars or apartheids.
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southern_land

Rep: 140.2
votes: 14


PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:20 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

Fiestita wrote (View Post):
What I never understood if why if muslims, christians and jews hate each other so much to kill each other in other parts of the world.


thats easy, its because religion is the ultimate team blood sport, they all wear funny team costumes, the rules change frequently, its televised and they all think their team is best and one day it will win the championship.
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ArmeeGruppeSud

Rep: 9.5
votes: 7


PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:50 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

Blackstump wrote (View Post):
I like to think that i'm as decent as any righteous religious individual, without any Muppet telling me what i need to do to find salvation.
3 points

1st you said: "I like to think that i'm .. decent"

If judgement is left to the individual, then we could all be judged as perfect.

Even mass murderers, such as the Norwegian crazyman, Anders Behring Breivik, just like many other maniacs, judge themselves as "descent" citizens.

So self judgement will just never do....., sorry  Sad

As a Christian, whom you incorrectly label as: "self-righteous", i judge myself as less than perfect (=sinful) and strive for continual self improvement with God's help.

My only righteousness, is not my own, but rather, it is Jesus Christ's righteoussness, which is credited to me, as a gift, of God's grace (thanks Jesus).

2ndly what muppet?

The muppets are actually a secular movement, they preach evolution and believe they evovled from socks, without the influence, design, or imagination of any other creative being (making them just as ignorant, naive and gullable as the humanist secular evolutionists).

3rdly
No matter how good you judge yourself to be, IF, a muppet could point you in the right direction, to gain eternal salvation, you would be prudent and wise to listen to it  Smile   Wink

CHEERS

AGS

.


@ AT_Stalky, do you WANT, or NEED, islamic influence in your society?

This question is NOT Rhetorical!

STILL WAITING FOR YOUR ANSWER
.


Last edited by ArmeeGruppeSud on Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:29 am; edited 2 times in total
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ArmeeGruppeSud

Rep: 9.5
votes: 7


PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:01 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

Realy Panzermayer, it would be very hard for you to be more wrong  Confused

Panzermayer wrote (View Post):
Probaly most people, , at least in the civilized part of the world, that call themself religious understand that they are part of a massive entity that defaces themselves and people with other views, beliefs or thoughts.
THE TRUTH: Secular atheism is a massive entity that defaces themselves and other people with their views, beliefs or thoughts.

Panzermayer wrote (View Post):
BUT religious people always makes it right in there own head. They make there own reality in which religous believes makes them whole as a person and makes them function as part of society.
THE TRUTH: Secular atheists always makes it right in their own head. They make their own reality in which secular beliefs makes them whole as a person and make them function as part of society

Panzermayer wrote (View Post):
Even if the religion clearly has a negative impact on society.
Now this is clearly the wrongest thing you have written.
The evidence against that statement could fill an encyclopedia.

Modern western culture owes virtually everything it has achieved in the last millenium to its Christian foundations.

examples:

The universtity system has its foundation in Christian monastries which saved all the books during the Dark ages.

The Christian monastries were the original centres of learning the very foundation of of modern education.

Even modern western science owes its very existance to Christianity

Western societies were built on the solid foundation of Christian morality.

The politically incorrect atheistic secular movement is responsible for the present moral decline and destruction of the modern family system.

Christianity made a strong healthy society, secular atheism is destroying the very fabric of this society.

THE TRUTH: Secular atheism clearly has a negative impact on society.


There would be no problem with your statement if you had specified the islamic religion.

Just heard how a 13yo girl was strangled by her parents because she was "too westernised"
Grrr @ stupid muslims, if they dont like our western culture, why then did the parents make the family illegally migrate to a western country? DUH!

Now, even here in Australia, we had a muslim man throw acid in a woman's face because she would not marry him (a common practice in islamic nations).

We dont want/need islamic influene on our western (Christian) society.

If you wanna live here, either become like us, or GO BACK WHERE YOU CAME FROM!

Either they convert to christianity or just joyfully embrace and adopt our culture, or they should just stay in their Muslim countries instead of coming here and using stupid secular political correctness to make our wonderfull Christian foundationed society into a hellhole like the muslim culture they risked their lives to escape.

When they set out from Indonesia, the illegal immigrant boats send distress signals to the Australian Navy before they are out of sight of land. The Indonesian (Muslim) Navy does not care if they drown, so the Australian Navy must leave Australian waters, cross international waters and enter Indonesian waters, to rescue the illegals.

Really, regarding these illegal immigrant boat people (incorrectly labelled "Asylum seeking refugees")we should just sink their boats, and let the swim back to shore. they would soon stop coming.

Just 2 naval sinkings would be enough to send a clear and effective message.
Of course we would make sure they all have life jackets for the swim.

THis would save their lives too.
10-20% of them already drown as most of their boats are unseaworthy and many boats sink, often with no survivors (because people smugglers do not include life jackets in the $5,000 fee).

Then, finally, the genuine Asylum seekers could start getting processed.

At present, our immigration staff have no time to process the genuine Asylum seekers because they are too busy, being swamped with work processing all the FAKE Asylum seekers who are really just illegal economic immigrants.

Any 3rd world person who can afford to pay the people smugglers the $5,000USD/person, is no poor, penniless regugee, they are just wealthy people buying their way into our welfare system where they get treated better than our legitimate citizens (GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR)  Mad
 
You cant call me a racist, my wife ,who i adore, is 100% asian  Razz

Panzermayer wrote (View Post):
They will not, and cannot, be shaken from there own narrow minded views.
If only you were talking about the secular athesists, then you would have got one statement right.

0/4

Your scored poorly as everything you wrote was totally opposite to the facts/truth

No offense is meant  Very Happy

You are human, therefore prone to make mistakes, hey, i was an atheists once too  Smile


Cheers

AGS

.


@ AT_Stalky, do you WANT, or NEED, islamic influence in your society?

This question is NOT Rhetorical!

STILL WAITING FOR YOUR ANSWER
.


Last edited by ArmeeGruppeSud on Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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MF_Church

Rep: 26


PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

Smile @ above post.  

1]  God hates religion.  Or what man has done with 'it'.

2]   If we all struggle with evil tendencies inside of us...  Does that make us ~ evil???   * Reading all of the recent posts above (almost all) certainly has my vote to the 'fallen' ~ human race and biblical views as such.

3]   Bible view also states, the 'god' (little 'g') of this world / earth is a fallen angel.  (satan) < and he is pure evil and he loves our false religions.
Again, reading the above posts gives ample evidence that that biblical view is also correct.  Fallen angels & fallen man.  We don't need satan to make us do anything.  If he did only he would get the blame.  No, he just puts a small question mark in our minds.  We willingly do the rest.

4]   Why do you think Jesus was killed?   His message!   "You being evil, know how to give Good gifts to your children."  And men sent by God as prophets to Israel were almost all destroyed.  Hence, they too were removed from that land twice for the land soak up the blood of believers.

5]   Jesus came for one reason.  To rescue those who want to be.  Most don't.
Why?  They have a pet... sin that they love.  And instead hide in the 'dark' spiritually, instead of coming to God's light that would expose it for what it really is.   Our hearts are our greatest enemy.  Deceitful, and wicked.   :(

6]   By the way.  If you think that you aren't that bad.   Remember.  It only takes one tiny sin to keep us out of heaven.  So comparing yourself to others who are not really any worse or better than you is foolish.  

Peter the apostle said,  " If the 'righteous' (jesus's followers received His righteousness) are barely saved (rescued) what shall the un godly do?"
Hey ArmeeGruppeSud

I love this saying.... i recently heard.

Pray til you ~~~~~~~~~~ pray!    Smile
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