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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:22 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

"Very few humans knew that the earth was a sphere before modern times."
US Brake


I assume you mean "educated humans". If not, then why are you wasting everyone's time?
Stwa


The misconception that educated Europeans at the time of Columbus believed in a flat Earth, and that his voyages refuted that belief, has been referred to as the "Myth of the Flat Earth".[6]

The myth of the Flat Earth is the modern misconception that the prevailing cosmological view during the Middle Ages saw the Earth as flat, instead of spherical.[1]

Wiki


Here are the links  Arrow

Flat Earth Science
Myth of the Flat Earth
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:40 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

"Humanity took a big step forward after WWII in science."
US Brake


Science Marches On
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AT_Stalky

Rep: 27.4
votes: 10


PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:07 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

davidssfx wrote (View Post):
AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
Very intresting DJ.

The Bible:

i) Leviticus 20:13: "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."


ii) Romans 1:24-32: "Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other.
Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. ”

Hm, would have to be a sorcerer to make something benign out of that bible text.  
On the other hand, if one is a sorcerer one would face the bible god’s hate to:

Exodus 22:18 “Thou shalt not suffer a sorceress to live.”

Pitty the people who fallen victims to God and his Bible massages.
The victims makes a mighty pile, some 30 000 was burned for being witches alone..

The Bible God's gay victims are still beeing piled up ..

decided to post again :)

John 8
1 but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.

2 At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

11 “No one, sir,” she said.

“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”


i) Leviticus 20:13: "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."


ii) Romans 1:24-32: "Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other.
Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. ”


As I said David, you need to be a sorcerer to make something benign out of the Bible gay hate  text.   So, lets hope you did not succeed, or you would draw Gods hate on your self. U know, he hates sorcerers..  Wink

Lets see:

So, the woman had sinned…
Instead of stoning the woman as the bible suggest is appropriate for sinners, Jesus suggested that the sinner should be forgiven.
Now see, You must read it all:

John 8: “Jesus declared. Go now and leave your life of sin.”

He don’t say “go now and live your life in sin”… does he?
He say she should leave here life of sin and she be forgiven…


The bible God clearly say gay activity is a sin, punishable by death.

So, lets test your analogy and see if it is applicable on Gods gay hate..

1)IF a gay person leaves the gay life then the Jesus forgiving analogy would be applicable ..
Remember: “Jesus declared. Go now and leave your life of sin.” = A Gay person stops being gay, and he’s forgiven…  


2)IF a gay person lives his life as a gay. And he don’t have any plan of stopping his gay life… Then how can you apply what Jesus said: “Jesus declared. Go now and leave your life of sin.”

So "fortunately"  for you David, you failed here....


Just a question for you David. Don’t you think God is a grown up who can declare his gay morals/laws without you trying to put another meaning to what he thinks?  Wink Are you not afraid to anger him?

As many people who where burned by the church for being accuse of being witches, as many people was burned by the church for being accused of having sex with animals. … The church victims keep piling up.


Last edited by AT_Stalky on Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:43 pm; edited 4 times in total
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MajorFrank

Rep: 41.8
votes: 6


PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:57 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

dj wrote (View Post):

I personally can care less about a person's religious, political views or especially their Sexual beliefs.  All these issues are Wedge topics used to indoctrinate people and justify political support or agendas of Hate.  Actual both the Left and Right wings are obsessed over these issues.  Nobody cares.  Most people just want to be left alone and not have the Govt dictate what we have to believe or what we want to do as individuals.


I think that people should do more to fight the religion that is prevalent in their own region. We have arrived at this point in time from the past and unfortunately there are many institutions in our societies that are very outdated, mainly the religions. So far we haven't done away with these religions. It is time to do so, otherwise we will not develop as a society and as a species.
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southern_land

Rep: 150.9
votes: 14


PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:51 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

John 8
1 but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.

2 At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

11 “No one, sir,” she said.

“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and LIVE your life of sin.”

one word mistranslated from ancient Aramayic and the whoe scene takes on a different hue
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davidssfx

Rep: 16.8
votes: 8


PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:36 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
As I said David, you need to be a sorcerer to make something benign out of the Bible gay hate  text.   So, lets hope you did not succeed, or you would draw Gods hate on your self. U know, he hates sorcerers..  Wink

By posting John 8:1-11, I wasn't arguing that God doesn't hate sin, or that God doesn't punish sin ... I was only suggesting that there is more to the story Smile

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
He don’t say “go now and live your life in sin”… does he?
He say she should leave here life of sin and she be forgiven…

you were correct until you added these extra words ... "and she be forgiven…"

The woman being forgiven is not dependent on her leaving her life of sin.
Jesus said, “Then neither do I condemn you,”
This infers that Jesus forgives her and then offers advice to her that would be her best course of action ... that being to "leaving her life of sin"
If the woman decided to stop sinning (or sincerely made an effort to not sin) ... that would be the result of a changed heart (the innermost part, the commanding part).

the stream can't be sweet unless the spring is so

If she continued living a sinful life ... then she would require further forgiveness.
The problem though, of living a sinful life is ... it can be systemic, self perpetuating, blinding. The Bible teaches that the wages of sin is death.

Romans 6:16 Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey--whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?

A person could dispute the effects of gravity, but if you jump out of an airplane without a parachute ... you may regret that decision (or not be able to).



AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
Are you not afraid to anger him?

yes
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davidssfx

Rep: 16.8
votes: 8


PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:56 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
We have arrived at this point in time from the past and unfortunately there are many institutions in our societies that are very outdated, mainly the religions. So far we haven't done away with these religions. It is time to do so, otherwise we will not develop as a society and as a species.


Perhaps you should read "The Gulag Archipelago" by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn ... there are some interesting insights about how humans behave in conditions you claim to desire Smile
And it all happened less than a hundred years ago!
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AT_Stalky

Rep: 27.4
votes: 10


PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:18 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

davidssfx wrote (View Post):
The woman being forgiven is not dependent on her leaving her life of sin. Jesus said, “Then neither do I condemn you,”



davidssfx wrote (View Post):
you were correct until you added these extra words ... "and she be forgiven…"  



Defenition of Condem:
to express an unfavorable or adverse judgment on; indicate strong disapproval of; censure.
to pronounce to be guilty; sentence to punishment: to condemn a murderer to life imprisonment.
to give grounds or reason for convicting or censuring: His acts condemn him.
to judge or pronounce to be unfit for use or service: to condemn an old building.
U.S. Law . to acquire ownership of for a public purpose, under the right of eminent domain: The city condemned the property.
to force into a specific state or activity: His lack of education condemned him to a life of menial jobs.



Definition of Forgive:
Synonyms: condone, forgive, pardon, excuse,
These verbs mean to refrain from imposing punishment on an offender or demanding satisfaction for an offense. The first three can be used as conventional ways of offering apology. More strictly, to forgive is to grant pardon without harboring resentment: "Children begin by loving their parents; as they grow older they judge them; sometimes they forgive them" (Oscar Wilde).
Pardon more strongly implies release from the liability for or penalty entailed by an offense: After the revolution all political prisoners were pardoned.
To excuse is to pass over a mistake or fault without demanding punishment or redress: "There are some acts of injustice which no national interest can excuse" (J.A. Froude).
To condone is to overlook an offense, usually a serious one, and often suggests tacit forgiveness: Failure to protest the policy may imply a willingness to condone it.

So when Jesus said “Then neither do I condemn you,”  he implicitly said the “extra words” that I added, as in: “she be forgiven”………………………  

davidssfx wrote (View Post):
If she continued living a sinful life ... then she would require further forgiveness.


Ahhha, so she would require further FORGIVENESS… MMm…. So you actually understood the definition after all…


davidssfx wrote (View Post):
The problem though, of living a sinful life is ... it can be systemic, self perpetuating, blinding. The Bible teaches that the wages of sin is death.


Mmmm


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Blackstump

Rep: 24.5
votes: 1


PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:20 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

From memory the passage is "go and sin no more". At least in the King James version of the fable.
Of course the " let ye who is without sin cast the first stone" passage would infer that those who would, would have broken the law, as it wasnt Roman law that adultery was punishable by death.
So they would have been charged with murder, much as our laws are now, and thank god for that(excuse the pun).


"percute et percute velociter"
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AT_Stalky

Rep: 27.4
votes: 10


PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:27 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

Thanx Blackstump.

You remember right, I just shecked it.

The litteral translation (Youngs Litteral Bible) is:

John 8: and she said, `No one, Sir;' and Jesus said to her, `Neither do I pass sentence on thee; be going on, and no more sin.'
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ArmeeGruppeSud

Rep: 9.5
votes: 7


PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:17 am Post subject: very amicable religious discussions Reply with quote

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
remember, if you divorce, you go straight to hell!
Even without passing GO   Question

OH NO  Shocked

This must be hell here and now........

Because i am divorced  Surprised

Laughing  Where do you get such rubbish from MF?

Thats not in the Bible either...

Maybe thats your whole problem with Christianity, you believe all the falsehoods that are spread about Christianity.....

Methinks that you ODed on gullability  Wink



MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
I'll just leave these here.

Ta ta,

MF]
MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
1st i am guessing that you think the 2nd image from the left is supposed to be Jesus  Laughing

Well, i am VERY impressed that 7 million Californians realised that the image of Jesus having a european appearance is a myth  Rolling Eyes
Of course Jesus did not have blue eyes and fair hair  Wink

2ndly, if the far right image is supposed to be Satan, then that image is also mythical.

Satan would not be seen dead in a cheap suit like that, Lucifer only wears Gucci   Wink


MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

Well, thats sad that 2 million of my cousins will miss out on eternity  Sad

The good news is that 3 million God fearing Scotts will enjoy an eternity of joy  Very Happy

CHEERS

AGS

.


RIP

http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=10576


Last edited by ArmeeGruppeSud on Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:38 pm; edited 2 times in total
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ArmeeGruppeSud

Rep: 9.5
votes: 7


PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:33 am Post subject: Not so heated religious discussions Reply with quote

dj wrote (View Post):
There is a very large Church down the way from me which is famous in U.S.  On paper they seem reasonable, not appearing to be a radical fundamentalist denomination.  However the Pastor made headline news when it was discovered that he along with his staff supported a Dictatorship in Africa that openly advocated State-sanctioned Murder of Gays.  The Pastor came-up with all sorts of creative justifications but in the end there was proof he along with his Political allies provided support, met in face-to-face meetings and even encouraged this type of Gestapo-like policy.

Yes the militant Islams are known to pitch radical beliefs.  Are these fundamentalists any different than many of the radical fundamentalist "Christian" groups in the West?  I don't think so.  We even call these radical Right-Wing groups that advocate violence towards Gays or even Liberals the American Talibans.  Make no mistake there is a huge contingent of these groups...I call them Cults...that are virtually the same as the Radical Muslim groups.  How dare they even call themselves Christians...they don't deserve that honor.  Or what about the Nuts that show-up at our own Military funerals with signs stating Soldiers deserve to die because we have Gays in our country?  Make no mistake we have plenty of our own Fruit Loop pyschopath's in the West that masquerade as religious groups.

Would that be the dreaded Westborro Baptist Church?

The Westborro Baptist Church preaches:
HATE, HATE, HATE & CONDEMNATION  Mad Shocked  

Unlike true Christianity which preaches:
LOVE, LOVE, LOVE & FORGIVENESS  Very Happy

Pretty sure that God Hates the Westborro Baptist Church  Wink


CHEERS

AGS

.


RIP

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ArmeeGruppeSud

Rep: 9.5
votes: 7


PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:38 am Post subject: religious study and discussion group Reply with quote

southern_land wrote (View Post):
John 8
1 but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.

2 At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

11 “No one, sir,” she said.

“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and LIVE your life of sin.”

one word mistranslated from ancient Aramayic and the whoe scene takes on a different hue
Blackstump wrote (View Post):
From memory the passage is "go and sin no more". At least in the King James version of the fable.
Of course the " let ye who is without sin cast the first stone" passage would infer that those who would, would have broken the law, as it wasnt Roman law that adultery was punishable by death.
So they would have been charged with murder, much as our laws are now, and thank god for that(excuse the pun).
AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
The litteral translation (Youngs Litteral Bible) is:

John 8: and she said, `No one, Sir;' and Jesus said to her, `Neither do I pass sentence on thee; be going on, and no more sin.'
Well Praise GOD!!!!  Very Happy

If nothing else, this thread has got you guys studying scripture, there's hope for you guys yet  Very Happy

CHEERS

AGS

.


RIP

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AT_Stalky

Rep: 27.4
votes: 10


PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:52 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

Thanks AGS.

It’s an interesting thread, questions often dwelled over by middle age men like my self. 44+
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ArmeeGruppeSud

Rep: 9.5
votes: 7


PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:54 am Post subject: Re: Luke warm political/religious discussions Reply with quote

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
I think that people should do more to fight the religion that is prevalent in their own region. We have arrived at this point in time from the past and unfortunately there are many institutions in our societies that are very outdated, mainly the religions. So far we haven't done away with these religions. It is time to do so, otherwise we will not develop as a society and as a species.
Hmmm, MF are you a Marxist or a Nazi?

You are against democratic freedom of speech and religion as you want to destroy them both just as the Nazis and Communists tried to.

It seems you must be one or the other as those 2 ideologies are ultimately the result of humanist thinking.

Your kind of thinking leads down the exact same road...............

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
It is time to do so, otherwise we will not develop as a society and as a species.
Humanist society is exactly what 1940s Nazi society was and is also what the Marxists aspired to.

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
It is time to do so, otherwise we will not develop as .. a species.
Yes, the Nazis wanted to perfect the human species by selective breeding and by exterminating the untermenschen.

Oh, yes, i think we have a match here ........

HEIL MF!! (M........ Fuhrer)

CHEERS

AGS

>


RIP

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Last edited by ArmeeGruppeSud on Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:13 pm; edited 2 times in total
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ArmeeGruppeSud

Rep: 9.5
votes: 7


PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:41 pm Post subject: Extremely congenial religious discussion Reply with quote

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
Since this thread has long since degenerated into a slugfest between 'religion' and 'non-religion'
Seems not  Confused

Despite your most ardent attempts to turn this thread into a: "slugfest", you have failed miserably  Sad  

You have used mockery, false accusations, strawman arguments and straight out insults, and all to no avail

The thread has regenerated into an intelectual discussion that is so amiable that it is verging on a utopian peacefullness  Wink

Very Happy  Peace and Love to all CCers  Very Happy

CHEERS

AGS

P.S.May the peace be restricted to all areas of your life outside yr PC, but may hostility be most furious within yr CC games .


RIP

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Fiestita

Rep: 6.2
votes: 2


PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:48 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

Well maybe I'm so good and peaceful that I'm rare.
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davidssfx

Rep: 16.8
votes: 8


PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:36 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

Blackstump wrote (View Post):
From memory the passage is "go and sin no more". At least in the King James version of the fable.
Of course the " let ye who is without sin cast the first stone" passage would infer that those who would, would have broken the law, as it wasnt Roman law that adultery was punishable by death.
So they would have been charged with murder, much as our laws are now, and thank god for that(excuse the pun).


The law referred to in this passage is the Law Moses commanded
"5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?"

The reason they brought this woman to Jesus was to try and trick Him in His words so that they could accuse Him.
"6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him." "

The reason for their attempt to accuse Jesus was probably due to:

Matthew 23
13 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. [14] [b]

15 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.

16 “Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gold of the temple is bound by that oath.’ 17 You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18 You also say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gift on the altar is bound by that oath.’ 19 You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 Therefore, anyone who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21 And anyone who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22 And anyone who swears by heaven swears by God’s throne and by the one who sits on it.

23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

25 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

27 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

29 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30 And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!

33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.


When Jesus said ... “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” ... he was challenging the woman's accusers to judge themselves with the same measure by which they judged the woman, that being the law of Moses (Ten Commandments, morale laws, social laws, etc).
When the accusers honestly evaluated themselves, they found themselves guilty of sin... and therefore could not cast a stone at her.

law of Moses info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Moses

Also, some info about what Jesus might have been writing in the ground:
http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/faq/ground.html
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AT_Stalky

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:57 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):
We have arrived at this point in time from the past and unfortunately there are many institutions in our societies that are very outdated, mainly the religions. So far we haven't done away with these religions. It is time to do so, otherwise we will not develop as a society and as a species.

davidssfx wrote (View Post):
Perhaps you should read "The Gulag Archipelago" by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn ... there are some interesting insights about how humans behave in conditions you claim to desire Smile
And it all happened less than a hundred years ago!



Develope as a state and spicies that dont mix with having slaves and inhumane systems.. Thats what you mean, right.. Human behaves bad without the Christian Church seem to be your main driving point here David… Right?  


Are you implying that the GULAG was a result of a state without Church? By the way, the Soviet state reinstated the Church during the war…Was the GULAG demolished when the church was reinstated? The GULAG continued until the deStalinization …
So was Nikita a priest, I mean he demolished the GULAG system!
Did you know that Stalin amongst many others of the leading figures in the Soviet state was in the GULAGS them selves? When the revolution started in 1917, Stalin was in the GULAGS as a prisoner, but they was not run by the Stalinists at that time...
So the GULAG idea was a product by the Christian Tsar… So there from came the GULAG systems.  
To sum this up: The GULAG was created by a christan Tsar with a powerfull Church and the GULAGS was demolished by an god-less Communist...
So your theory fails here David.

Lets test your theory a bit further just to be sure,
If there’s a church there should not be any repressive regimes that are making slaves of the population… Right…

Hm, should we go back to the church after the Roman empire fall, and the middle ages? The priest did either rule directly or they were allied with the rulers by that time. Slaves was ok, the whole society was feudal in nature. Yeh, it was called the “dark ages”…Btw did you know that the christian russian tsars alowed Sufdom, in 1825 more than half of the factory workers was propertys of the factory owners.. The Serfdom was alowerd up to 1860th and in some regions up to 1892...  Did you know that the Christian Tsar and the church allowed surfdom in Georgia just 7 years before Stalin was born! !!!  
It seems you theory fails here..

Lets move forward a bit, what about when the Spanish and Portuguese colonized the Americas? The states and rulers were very religious, the churches had grate power in them states. Yet the natives was turned into slaves in many regions by the Christian rulers.
So again your theory fails here to..

Lets see, lets move forward a bit and into the European sugar industry in the 1600-1800 th. It was run with slaves, and the death toll was horrific. The new slaves from Africa had a small chance of living even a year under these conditions.. So, how come? I mean, the countries that owned them slaves had a powerful church…  
So your theory fails again.  

Your own country, the USA… Allowed slaves less than 150 years ago.. Was there no church in USA? “In god we trust”… Tell me about the situation for the Africans-America people in the South of USA in, say the 1940 th…  Or why not in the 1960 th..? That’s less than 50 years ago..
So your theory fails again…

Shall we look at the Christian Europeans and the Africans.. Lets take Belgian Congo as an example.
The Belgians was Christians. The King was Christian and the priests in Congo was Christians..
Between 3 millions (lower estimates) and up to 30 million (upper estimates) Africans was killed there during year 1885 – 1908 in Belgian Congo. Yes, they were slaves in all but name. See, here the Christian priests was instruments of the King, in there monasteries the priests formed young children who was kidnapped from there parents. The young were turned into terror instruments of the regime committing horrible acts on behalf of the Christian King. (Remember, Stalin was also “educated” by the priests… what did they do to him?)  Look at these people, they all miss something… I leave it up to you to fined out what and how that happened and who did it and who created them who did it, and on whos behalf they did it, and at what scale. Open your eyes David..



So your theory fails yet again and again and..


Last edited by AT_Stalky on Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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Blackstump

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:24 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions Reply with quote

Yes i have to agree with Stalky here and this and many more atrocities committed by Christian men is the reason i turn my back to it.
This is why i say my philosophy is better then theirs.
Your religion is tainted by it.
No doubt i will here that this is not Christs teachings as I've heard many a time before, but what i see from your churches is the real blasphemy.
The way they treat those that are not theirs and even how they treat those that are.. i call these the blind. This is the real abomination, it is no better than the nazis or the communists, or dictatorships.
To belong to such a group would make me feel filthy.
Do not get me wrong AGS or David, if Christ had wrote the new testament then we would have a clearer picture of his meaning. But he didn't, others did.
Versions of hearsay are what you base your life's on.
Paul was a Roman turn coat, this is a basis of Roman catholicism?
The church of England was formed by a self serving king?
Other churches have their own basis in lies. do you belong to a lie ?
Sorry AGS but i have studied Christian religion and the whiff of corruption has still not left my nose.


"percute et percute velociter"
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