Religion is a kind of a ancient ponzi scheme where wealth is taken from many and given to few.
Wrong again MF, religion has nothing to do with it.
The inherant human corruption is responsible for the fact that the wealth is taken from many and given to few.
It is extremely prevalent in secular societies.
Its called greed, that's spelled: G-R-E-E-D.
Greed is extremely common in humanity, particularly amongst those with no moral compass (the Bible ),
Our local church sends a much higher % of its budget in aid to the 3rd world than does our secular government.
As Christians, we take money from the few rich and give it to the many poor.
You only see what you want to see MF, you are brainwashed by the secular media, which will loudly report every negative thing it can find related to christianity and will totally ignore and keep silent about the huge, massive amount of good done by Christians.
But thats the media for you............, good news don't get ratings, or sell much
Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:55 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions
Qoute David: “”Age six is when I was walking home from school and I found a salamander in the ditch along the road. A kid passing the other direction saw what I had and said he would trade it for his knife. I said yes and gave the salamander to him, and then he said his knife was in the branch of the close by tree. After climbing the tree, I didn't find a knife. A valuable lesson in life I guess. To be honest there were many other things before that that clued me into how things work here on earth, but for some reason that story sticks out ...”” End Qoute.
No offence but the question is, what did you learn here?
1)That your easily fooled and naive?
2)That "good" people lies to get things from ye..
3)When a story is to good to be true, you should question it..
4)That people don’t store there knifes in trees?
5)That there are many trees and branches and you should have asked for a better description to exact what tree and what branch..
6)You should have brought a ladder?
7)That you should make a credit rating of an individual that you leave a credit to.
8)You should have made a legal contract saying that the salamander was yours until payment was fulfilled.
9)That the knife may have fallen down from its position and where in reality on the ground.. And he was telling the truth...
10)That you should not sell or trade things that are not yers to begin with, or did you really own the salamander? Thus:
11)You realized that crime don’t pay..
12)You realized how easy it was to make a criminal out of an unsuspecting kid. (I mean the other kid accepting the salamander was then handling stolen property!)
13)..
...
...
I hope it was atleast No. 10 and more.
See, there are many layers of things.
God bless ye David.
Last edited by AT_Stalky on Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:38 am; edited 2 times in total
So it is impossible for MajorFrank to be more wrong.
Maybe Hitler was not an atheist..................., because he believed that he was a god
Here is a page of quotes from various Nazi Leaders, Borman, Goebels etc, where they express their views on Christianity.
http://www.stephenhand.net/2010/09/adolph-hitler-hated-christianity-from.html
Their views sound remarkably like your views MF, so much so, they make excellent evidence to prove that you are indeed a Nazi Fascist.
I think that people should do more to fight the religion that is prevalent in their own region. We have arrived at this point in time from the past and unfortunately there are many institutions in our societies that are very outdated, mainly the religions. So far we haven't done away with these religions. It is time to do so, otherwise we will not develop as a society and as a species.
This quote from MF mirrors the opinions of many Nazi leaders.
The connection is obvious, Nazis are fascists and fascists, ideologically, are atheists.
Don't talk to me about the Vatican, it has nothing to do with my Christian faith.
Regarding your source of misinformation, i'm sure the truth has had a seriously painful stretching there
Especially as the Nazis planned to invade the Vatican and kidnap the Pope
http://www.stephenhand.net/2010/09/adolph-hitler-hated-christianity-from.html
(Halfway down the page)
Well, regarding MajorFrank's clumsily planned, blinkered research and irrational argument, aimed at villifying Christianity, by aligning it with the secular science based atheist ideaology of Nazi Fascism, it has already been said:
Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:18 am Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions
The shit is getting deeper by the second in this thread. The Europeans cant talk about anything for longer than 30 seconds without bringing up the Nazis.
But, just when you thought scientists couldn't find their asses with both hands, yet another explanation of the Big Bang Theroy has been given additonal caca. First they told us the Big Bang was an explosion, then they said it was just an expansion, and now they say this
Now, a team of physicists says the Big Bang should be modeled as a phase change: the moment when an amorphous, formless universe analogous to liquid water cooled and suddenly crystallized to form four-dimensional space-time, analogous to ice.
Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:03 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions
AGS,
nothing you posted there overules anything I posted earlier. The Christian church and it's various branches are very very rich, and they have gleaned this wealth over hundreds (thousands?) of years. Also the church often underpays it's workers, only giving them a very low wage because "faith is enough" etc. Missonaries etc. are religious fanatics in the dictionary sense of the word.
The link between the Nazis and Christianity is very strong and undisputed by historians.
Besides, weren't you a Baptist, you pick and choose when the things that the Catholic church has done suits you. I guess you won't take responsibility of what went on for example in the Jasenovac camp?
I see that the Baptists have had all kinds of 'crisis' and 'controversies' during their time as an active religion. Not perfect, I guess?
Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions
Let’s look at the history of the founding fathers of the Christian Churches.
Martin Luther was the “father” of the protestant branch of the Church. “Baptist churches are widely considered to be Protestant churches”.
I quote: “Unfortunately few popular books or television documentaries on Luther go into detail about Luther's anti-Jewishness, or even mention that he had a hatred for Jews at all. This has resulted in a biased outlook towards Martin Luther and Christianity. This unawareness of Luther's sinister side, while honoring his "righteousness" leads to a ratcheting promotion of Luther which supports a "good" public image while also transporting his Jewish beliefs to those who carry the seeds of anti-Semitism. This will present an unwanted dilemma for many Christians because Luther represents the birth of Protestant Christianity as well as the genesis of the special brand of Jewish hatred that flourished only in Germany.”
But Luther's 1543 book, "On the Jews and their lies" took Jewish hatred to a new level when he proposed to set fire to their synagogues and schools, to take away their homes, forbade them to pray or teach, or even to utter God's name. Luther wanted to "be rid of them" and requested that the government and ministers deal with the problem. He requested pastors and preachers to follow his example of issuing warnings against the Jews. He [Luther] goes so far as to claim that "We are at fault in not slaying them" ” /End
Hm... What the founding father of the protestant Church preached, Hitler carried through... Does that a good Protestant Christan make?
No offence but the question is, what did you learn here?
1)That your easily fooled and naive?
2)That "good" people lies to get things from ye..
3)When a story is to good to be true, you should question it..
4)That people don’t store there knifes in trees?
5)That there are many trees and branches and you should have asked for a better description to exact what tree and what branch..
6)You should have brought a ladder?
7)That you should make a credit rating of an individual that you leave a credit to.
8)You should have made a legal contract saying that the salamander was yours until payment was fulfilled.
9)That the knife may have fallen down from its position and where in reality on the ground.. And he was telling the truth...
10)That you should not sell or trade things that are not yers to begin with, or did you really own the salamander? Thus:
11)You realized that crime don’t pay..
12)You realized how easy it was to make a criminal out of an unsuspecting kid. (I mean the other kid accepting the salamander was then handling stolen property!)
13)..
...
...
I hope it was atleast No. 10 and more.
See, there are many layers of things.
God bless ye David.
lol ... quite the list, thanks for the humor Got a good laugh from number four.
Was talking with an elderly couple a while back and something one of them said could from been taken several different ways, but I knew the meaning from the person who spoke it was innocent. Later was thinking ... I thought it was foolish to be naive, but perhaps in a way it's really a treasure. Sure you may get fooled or laughed at, but at least your mind isn't contemplating the numerous devious alternatives.
Last edited by davidssfx on Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:20 am; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:48 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions
DING DINGDINGDING!!!
In this cornnnnner!
Let me PREzoom! (presume) for a mere moment!
The BOOK (of a religious sort ) that GETS the shape of the Earth best is the Wiener! sorry... Winner! ok ? sinner ? hmm rhymes!
As per MajorFrank... (i think ? ) Islam says it's EGG like.
Now the bible gets it more correct with ......
Isaiah 40:22 - It is He that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers, who stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in, <<< King James Version. (translation)
or
My current favorite translation ~ The Message...
God sits high above the round ball of earth.
The people look like mere ants.
He stretches out the skies like a canvas—
yes, like a tent canvas to live under.
The BOOK (of a religious sort ) that GETS the shape of the Earth best is the Wiener! sorry... Winner! ok ? sinner ? hmm rhymes!
As per MajorFrank... (i think ? ) Islam says it's EGG like.
Now the bible gets it more correct with ......
Isaiah 40:22 - It is He that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers, who stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in, <<< King James Version. (translation)
or
My current favorite translation ~ The Message...
God sits high above the round ball of earth.
The people look like mere ants.
He stretches out the skies like a canvas—
yes, like a tent canvas to live under.
Round BALL ! wins!
enjoy!
You realize that a circle is flat, right? The term used in Hebrew, [Edit: I can't post the Hebrew symbols here, it's Transliteration is 'chug'], basically means to make a circle, like with a compass (think math class). It does not imply a round ball despite what The Message--a "non literal translation, tending towards paraphrase"--says. It could be that Isaiah describes the appearance of the horizon surrounding a viewer; how the world vanishes from view as if it is a flat circle centered on the viewer.
Last edited by HogansHeros on Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:44 am; edited 1 time in total
Yes i have to agree with Stalky here and this and many more atrocities committed by Christian men is the reason i turn my back to it.
Hmm,
I'll never use a knife to prepare and eat my food, or use as a tool for work ... because some have used a knife to kill people.
I would think your knife of Christianity is closer to the sword of Damocles than the spear of Longinus,,, which in the long run has caused more damage ?
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions
Be careful of your reply David, if you remember the history of your fable that poor bastard had to live in a cave and be mauled by a lion every night until dawn when he was miraculously repaired , only to repeated again every night till the end of time.
Havent met him yet ,but i bet hes over it by now... an all this for following orders... well it dosnt seem to pay to be on the wrong side,, does it ? And i thought your Christ was a forgiving soul...
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:10 pm Post subject: amiable athiest/religious discussions
@ Stalky
You are 100% correct that Baptist churches are within the Protestant branch of Christian Churches.
Now with Luther....., it is not accurate to call him the "Father" of protestant churches.
Luther was, to put it accuraetly, merely the founder of the 1st Protestant denomination.
Under the influence of Roman culture, the Roman (catholic) Church theology, teaching and practices became increasingly corrupted with paganism and false doctrines.
This was the result of, what many atheist despise, the amalgamation of Church and State.
This union was not good for the Church because Roman state cultural traditions became institutionalised into the church
Martin Luther studied the Bible scriptures carefully and saw the huge casm of difference between its teaching and the teaching of the Catholic Church.
So Luther led the way in reforming the church, in what we now call the Reformation period.
The Lutherens began the work in removing the BS out of Christianity
But much more cleaning was needed
Even to this very day, theology is changing as understanding is attained and truth revealed.
Still to this very day, social culture is causing corruption within churches (i.e. ordination of gay pastors )
The sanctification of the individual is a process, so it is also for the churches of God
nothing you posted there overules anything I posted earlier.
Nothing overrules, rather, what i posted completely refutes all your notions that Christianity has anything in common with Nazism. My post refutes your notion that Christianity has anything to do with Nazism and refutes any notion that Nazism has anything to do with Christianity.
The 2 are intrinsically incompatible and all genuine Nazis and Christians would agree on that.
It is fundamentally impossible to be both a genuine Nazi and a genuine Christian, because to adhere fully to the statutes of one ideology requires the rejection of the statutes of the other.
It is also abundantly clear to all rational minds that Atheism and Nazism are quite compatible, especially having so much in common (rejection of the reality of God, truth measured by the limits of fallible human science and morals based on fallible humanist philosophy.
The Christian church and it's various branches are very very rich, and they have gleaned this wealth over hundreds (thousands?) of years.
Maybe the Catholic Church is very rich, in finacial terms.
Christianity has spiritual riches that are worth far more than all the material/financial riches within the temporal universe
Missonaries etc. are religious fanatics in the dictionary sense of the word.
As usual, you are incorrect.
Without exception, none of the missionaries that i have met (10-15) could be described as fanatics. They are more accurately described with words like: selfless, devoted, loving, dedicated, and passionate.
Fanatic is a word that is more aptly used when describing Fascists and Marxists, or Islamic suicide bombers
The link between the Nazis and Christianity is very strong and undisputed by historians.
There is absolutely no link between Nazis and Christianity.
You have utterly failed to come close to showing any evidence of such a thing.
Unless you mean that the link between Nazis and Christianity is humanity.
Humanity is a link between every ideology, race, religion
Now, the best you could possibly prove, is that the Nazis, using considerable coercion, in most cases, had dealings with particular church groups in Germany and Italy.
, you pick and choose when the things that the Catholic church has done suits you.
Nope, so you are wrong again (you must be getting used to that by now ).
Not wanting to offend the Catholics out there, i wont list the numerous complaints (protests) that this Protestant Christian has against the Catholic Church's theology and practices.
God's word, as it is given in the Bible, is the only measure by which any Church can be judged.
I guess you won't take responsibility of what went on for example in the Jasenovac camp?
How could i possibly take responsibility for that?
Especially since i was not born until 1959
You should take responsability for all the war crimes committed in Europe, after all, you are a European.
Also,your people were allies of the Nazis, therefore, YOU should take responsibility for what went on in the Jasenovac camp
See, there are VERY STRONG links between the evil muderous German atheist Nazis and the Finnish fascist atheists.
Obviously you did not read that section at all did you
Quote:
Baptists have faced many controversies in their 400-year history, controversies of the level of crises. Baptist historian Walter Shurden says the word "crisis" comes from the Greek word meaning "to decide."
Quote:
Shurden writes that contrary to the presumed negative view of crises, some controversies that reach a crisis level may actually be "positive and highly productive." He claims that even schism, though never ideal, has often produced positive results.
Quote:
In his opinion crises among Baptists each have become decision-moments that shaped their future.[45] Some controversies that have shaped Baptists include the "missions crisis", the "slavery crisis", the "landmark crisis", and the "modernist crisis".
So, these controversies and crisises were all good things
Hey, if you had the sense to ask me, before shooting your keyboard off, i would have told you that, no Church denomination, nor any individual Christians, are perfect.
On the other hand, MajorFranks views, regarding science, religion and social developement, are not only compatible with Nazism, but appear identical
Just fess up now MF and admit that you are a closet Nazi......................, a Major Fascist
Thank you for your honesty in not denying your fascism.
Despite the fact you are promulgating so many lies, i believe that you are an honest man who actualy believes the stuff you post, simply due to irrational reasoning and naivity.
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:49 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions
AGS,
I'm not interested in your subjective opinions, don't you even get that? Try to stick with facts, the fairy tales that you've convinced yourself do not interest me. They are a part of your own personal lunacy. Nothing you wrote overruled anything I wrote earlier. How about quoting reputable historians, that at least would be a beginning, eh?
Yes it seems like your specific branch of religion isn't perfect at all, and the history of Christianity in Australia is full of stuff like stealing children from the Aboriginals and force baptizing them into Christianity. That's right and proper?
Btw you're a Christian, you're supposed to forgive and turn the other cheek, remember? What happened to all that, or are you like the WBC in that you preach hatred?
I'm beginning to see Australia as a true backwoods, a place where there is no civilization, only religious zealots forcing their brand of religion on others.
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions
I don’t believe u think Australia is backwoods MF. I understand that it cant be fun to be called a Fascist etc time after time..
But, remember that blackstump, southernland, tack, lord4w, and grunt are all Anzac, men who all have shown very high degree of integrity over the years... Don’t judge a nation by your experience from one or a few persons only.
Please
Last edited by AT_Stalky on Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:59 pm Post subject: Re: Heated political/religious discussions
AGS,
I do understand that diff churches have different doctrine.
Though here in Sweden, all Churches use the same Bible, the yer 2000 bible, the translations was made by a commission representing most churches and theologise. Catholics has the 2000 ver to, but changed some chapters.. dont know what or why.. ..
The only Churches that im aware of that are not using them new year 2000 bible are the Jehovah, and the Mormon Church.
I don’t believe u think Australia is backwoods MF. I understand that it cant be fun to be called a Fascist etc time after time..
But, remember that blackstump, southernland, tack, lord4w, and grunt are all Anzac, men who all have shown very high degree of integrity over the years... Don’t judge a nation by your experience from one or a few persons only.
Please
I think that all non-religious people of the world should co-operate, not necessarily to form some organisation but there should be co-operation. The religious organisations that we oppose co-operate and work across national borders. It's difficult to oppose any kind of organisation, let alone one that has operated without restraint for thousands of years, has dedicated parties in the parliaments of big European nations, has probably trillions of dollars/euros of wealth, has a hand in the creation of laws and legislations in nations around the world, etc. etc. No small feat to make all that vanish, might be too big for one person alone.
But that only motivates me more, I'm not scared of the bullying of 'bigger' guys, tyrants who pray on the weak, I fight back and eventually I win. That's how I operate.
However I think that non-religious, atheists etc. should do their best to oppose the religious in their own nation. So I hope that the non-believers/atheists of Australia will be able to do something about religious fanatics in their nation.
Let’s look at the history of the founding fathers of the Christian Churches.
Martin Luther was the “father” of the protestant branch of the Church. “Baptist churches are widely considered to be Protestant churches”.
I quote: “Unfortunately few popular books or television documentaries on Luther go into detail about Luther's anti-Jewishness, or even mention that he had a hatred for Jews at all. This has resulted in a biased outlook towards Martin Luther and Christianity. This unawareness of Luther's sinister side, while honoring his "righteousness" leads to a ratcheting promotion of Luther which supports a "good" public image while also transporting his Jewish beliefs to those who carry the seeds of anti-Semitism. This will present an unwanted dilemma for many Christians because Luther represents the birth of Protestant Christianity as well as the genesis of the special brand of Jewish hatred that flourished only in Germany.”
But Luther's 1543 book, "On the Jews and their lies" took Jewish hatred to a new level when he proposed to set fire to their synagogues and schools, to take away their homes, forbade them to pray or teach, or even to utter God's name. Luther wanted to "be rid of them" and requested that the government and ministers deal with the problem. He requested pastors and preachers to follow his example of issuing warnings against the Jews. He [Luther] goes so far as to claim that "We are at fault in not slaying them" ” /End
Hm... What the founding father of the protestant Church preached, Hitler carried through... Does that a good Protestant Christan make?
Unlike true Christianity which preaches: LOVE, LOVE, LOVE & FORGIVENESS .
Begs the question, was not Martin Luther, the founder of the protestant Church a true Christian?
God, Im confused...
I wasn't aware of that ...
while looking for info about this, some other related info came to view which I've for some time been interested in ... so thanks for making the connection, albeit in an unintentional way
Also, I've decided to read the book to see what was on his mind.
I do understand that diff churches have different doctrine.
Though here in Sweden, all Churches use the same Bible, the yer 2000 bible, the translations was made by a commission representing most churches and theologise. Catholics has the 2000 ver to, but changed some chapters.. dont know what or why.. ..
The only Churches that im aware of that are not using them new year 2000 bible are the Jehovah, and the Mormon Church.
Supose they use there own translations.
/S
Ok, i never knew those facts re Swedish Bibles.
Yes, the Catholic Bible contains several more books than the protestant Bibles which included 66 books.
The extra books in the Catholic Bible are called the Apochrapha which the Protestants do not accept.
Mormon and Jehovah Witnesses use their own Translations because their wording is very very different
In English there are more versions than i could possible remember.
The Bible program on my PC has just 6 which i have synchronised so i can view a single verse in 6 versions at one time.
The English Language is constantly changing, so it is nescesary to revise Bible's language to current language.
There are dozens of versions especially written for certain subcultures that express the meanings in the subculture's slang i.e. the "Surfer's Bible".
I understand that it cant be fun to be called a Fascist etc time after time..
Yeah, MF's continual accusations of Nazis being Christians and of Christians being Nazi fascists is quite tiresome and not fun at all
Its especially absurd when it comes from somebody who's belief system actually has so much in common with the Nazis.
In particarlar MF and the Nazis shares these:
Atheism; Human science as a source of social, species and political direction; A hate for religion with a passion for the extermination of religions.
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