Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:20 pm Post subject: Re: GJS for LSA
[quote="Gunnar";p="69768"]A release on D Day for this historical mod? [/quote]
Would be a great idea, since the 6th is the National Day here in my beloved Sweden, and I am free from work on Friday as well. Four days of playing cc seems like a great weekend to me.
Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:03 am Post subject: Re: GJS for LSA
The readme is incomplete and not exactly well-written. I don't know if I'll ever do a complete job on it, but here it is:
As of June 2013, GJS for LSA will be released in beta form. The BG composition is far from polished, but there is a good strategic challenge for a British and German player. There are a lot of niggling things to fix up, but thought it better to release for beta feedback. Thanks to all who have patiently waited and provided encouragement. Enjoy and please post any errors or issues you come across.
-Cathartes
June 6, 2013
Known issues:
1. Battlegroups need more balancing and detailed TO&E work.
2. Map magnifier graphic needs to be fixed.
3. More deployment room for Bieville map.
4. Entry beach location fix for Courselles-sur-Mer.
5. Fix Ranville entrance for June 6 evening turn and/or fix KG Luck BG.
6. BfPz IIIN unit icon needs fix.
7. 1.SS PzGr 25, no AT guns until June 8.
8. A number of unit icon fixes.
9. Medals and uniforms in soldier display need further fixing.
10. Vehicle and gun data needs additional polishing.
11. Not all BG commanders are available.
README:
SOUNDS
1. New sounds: Many weapon sounds replaced with actual recordings of the weapons near the muzzle. Some of these sounds were edited slightly to conform to volume and dynamic range of other weapons. A few new home-made explosion sounds, some home-made, background ambient sounds, and a historical, accurate aircraft engine (Napier-Sabre engine for the Hawker Typhoon). Distinguishing sounds between same types of MGs as to location they are firing from (coaxial tank MG34 vs. infantry carried variety, etc.). New groans, grunts, and death sounds.
GRAPHICS
1. New aircraft graphics to represent aircraft flying closer to the player, and to create a bigger screen presence. Air to ground was terrifying, it has to create an impact.
2. Old GJS screen unit graphics replaced with symbols from tLD/LSA games. Some graphic symbols custom made. Despite the fact that many hours were spent creating the old GJS unit graphics, the new symbols are much easier to recognize at a glance.
3. A handful of new weapon graphics.
4. A handful of new vehicle graphics.
5. Added French ranks and medals for French Commandos consistent with tLD.
6. Small soldiers mod, also fixed graphic size of many AT guns.
MAPS
1. The GJS strategic map has always been an abstract consideration of the Normandy landscape. Considering the large area covered and the detailed landscape that must be embraced, there are a number of geographical generalizations and untruths which must be tolerated in the context of only 46 maps.
2. The strategic map and connections from GJS 4.4 were largely preserved. A few map names were changed to better represent geographical reality. A handful of connections were realigned.
3. Some maps were retired/replaced with new maps.
4. A total of two additional maps were added to the strategic map.
5. Every map was exhaustively recoded to minimize and/or eliminate errors and maintain consistency. GJS 4.3 and 4.4 maps were coded by numerous individuals with varying interpretations of how maps should be represented. This resulted in wildly inconsistent results between certain maps along with some glaring errors. We all worked for free so what did you expect?
6. A number of maps have minor graphic adjustments, some pertaining to wider bridges (for new pathfinding in LSA) or more accurate reflection of building stories, etc. Some maps have new roads, hedgerows, etc.
7. “Under Bridge” coding employed on many bridges, but not all bridges on all maps. In some cases, passing under bridges triggers the “interior” of a roof file. The reason for the inconsistency: passing under a bridge presents a finicky coding situation, and it does not always work well with all vehicles and with certain map locations it behaves poorly to not at all.
8. Map .btds checked for location and VL spelling, etc. VLs added to many maps.
9. VLs moved to the extent possible, to minimize a player’s ability to take VLs with tanks or other AFVs. Boots on the ground matter.
10. Maps coded to maximize cover for infantry, especially in buildings. AFVs still dominate, but perhaps not like they did in original GJS.
11. Deleted hidden connection b/n Rauray and Lingevres where a player could hop over Tilly-sur-Seulles map. This no longer works so well with multiple BGs per strategic map.
12. All new and historically accurate Lebisey Woods and le Hamel map.
13. Campaign/op BTD messages rewritten, mostly with historic quotes from German, Canadian, and British generals, commanders, and soldiers who experienced the conflict and horror of the Normandy invasion first-hand.
DATA
Allied
1. Added new Canadian armor teams to match voice files and icons.
2. Assault pioneer units were removed. The British and Commonwealth Armies did not use pioneers in the same manner that the German Army did. Engineers and pioneers were used for breaching obstacles on the beaches of Normandy and did occasionally participate in combat, but they were not typically deployed in front-line close assault roles throwing satchel charges, etc.
3. Added multiple Churchill tank variants for 31 Tank Bde battlegroup.
4. Added Sherman II DD tank, and Sherman II DD tank command.
5. Added Daimler Armoured Car (2nd Derbyshire Yeomanry, 51st Highland Division).
6. Added additional Commando and RM Commando infantry units.
German
1. Added a fixed 50mm PAK gun emplacement unit. The unit can be placed in bunkers and buildings, but it can’t move once the game begins. Players might suggest a house rule where these units can only be placed in beach fortification (bunkers, weapon pits).
2. Added SdKfz: 221, 222, and other miscellaneous small armoured units.
Battlegroups/Forcepools
This is not GJS a la CC5. The LSA engine offers more interesting options when representing forcepools and battlegroups. Changes are profound. Static BGs offer a new and interesting way to represent elements of the 716. “Bodenständigen”
Infanterie Division. Static BGs are numerous and 1-2 maps deep along the coast, but they are weak. Germans will be hard pressed to significantly delay the Allied onslaught, yet the Allied player will have to work for every map along the Normandy coastline. Game settings (force morale on or off) and skill will determine how successful the German player is at delaying his opponent. Full-strength German battlegroups on the map at the beginning of the campaign will be frozen for a turn simulating the surprise and confusion that plagued the German command from the earliest hours of June 6.
Both Allied and German players receive reinforcements somewhat parallel to historical availability. Most reinforcements are pre-determined by the forcepool and entrance of battlegroups. Player-determined reinforcement is very limited and exists only for a handful of Allied battlegroups—notably the independent armoured brigades. All battlegroups have a larger number of units in them then the original release of GJS. The 6th Airborne Division battlegroups begin the campaign weak on the first night turn, but quickly gain strength in the following turns—regardless of their supply situation. Beach assault groups also quickly gain strength in the turns immediately following the morning of June 6. A few German battlegroups start out the early phase of the campaign weaker due to the rushed march to the front and the delayed arrival of support units.
Nearly every BG has some dimension of combined arms and an innate ability to properly defend or reasonably attack any map. The exceptions to this are the one-dimensional vehicle/tank heavy BGs of the Allied independent armoured brigades and Germany’s s.SS-Pz.Abt. 101. These Armoured BGs are best used in tandem with other supporting BGs, or they can be merged with weaker BGs.
All BGs have their strengths and weaknesses. These become more pronounced as battle fatigue, and attrition accumulate. Overall, there is much more flexibility in German BGs due to their desperate, defensive stance in Normandy, and their historical/doctrinal proclivity to counterattack and form kampfgruppes.
Now that BGs can be stacked and/or combined, there are more pathways to strategic success and frustration. Along with the more detailed turn resolution in the arrival of BGs (BGs can now arrive on individual turns within a day, and are not limited to the beginning of a day as in CC5), a player is offered a more realistic situation within the context of the first several days of the Normandy campaign.
Some historical notes on Battlegroups:
KG 716. Infanterie
Even though 716. Infanterie was largely destroyed within the first 24 hours of D-Day, some elements survived in disarray. This KG represents those elements and remnants. Notably Pionier-Battalion 716 and Panzerjager-Abteilung 716 are incorporated.
1. Revised default battlegroup organization and added a couple new type categories to present more varied presentation of teams.
2. 8.8cm PaK in 26 / 12 SS and 25 / 12 SS Pzgr. Rgts replaced with elements of SS Flak Abteilung 12 (8.8cm Flak 36 and 3.7cm Flak).
3. JagdPanzer IV/48s removed from 26 / 12 SS and 25 / 12 SS panzergrenadier battlegroups. Evidence suggests they were not present or did not arrive at partial strength until later in the Normandy campaign (elements of SS Panzerjäger Abteilung 12). In their place are a handful of 15cm sIG33 (Sf) Ausf H “Grille” assault guns. They have limited anti-tank capability, but they are potent against infantry and fortified defenses. Grille Ausf H carry limited ammunition.
4. 25/12.SS has a handful of Mk IVs and 26/12.SS has a handful of Mk Vs.
5. Bodenständige (Static) Battlegroups: 716th Infanterie Division was strung out along the Norman coastline and inland from the Orne Estuary to Port-en-Bessin, elements of 21. Panzer Div. were also in the region. The static BGs icons “716. Inf-Div Bodenst” loosely represent these units. They are not strong units, but they are capable, in the hands of a good player, of holding out a turn or two depending on the game settings. The German player will be hard pressed to hold the beaches beyond June 6. The Allied player will not be able to roll through the coastal maps without hitting pockets of resistance. The question is: how fast can the Allies push inland and make progress before the powerful, mobile German BGs arrive to offer significant resistance and counterattack? “Recruit” setting will make a slightly more powerful beach and Orne Bridgehead defense on June 6.
6. 915/352 replaced with KG Meyer/352. This battlegroup represents the remaining units after it was split to reinforce the defense against the Americans at Omaha. Remaining are Stab/GR 915, I/GR 9156, Fus Btl 352, and the 10 Stug IIIs of 1/PzJg Abtl 352. This BG is part theoretical and part historical.
7. Revised Canadian 3 Infantry Division, confirmed presence of and included British 62 AT Regiment RA. RM Commandos removed from 7 Brigade and included in 8 Brigade in early days of campaign. DD tanks of 2 Cdn Arm. Bde. present in both 7 and 8 Brigade.
8. Added a number of new allied battlegroups.
9. Dramatically revised representation of 716th Infanterie-Div. with static battlegroups and remnant battlegroups that appear.
Elements
1. Customized elements file for GJS adapted from the LSA element file.
2. Small hedgerows, stone walls (previously stone fences), tall walls, and trees all provide a chance to bog and immobilize tracked vehicles. Avoid these and your tanks will be fine, try to push through them and you risk parking your tank for the rest of the battle. There is a very significant risk of immobilization when crashing tanks through tall walls of which some maps have in abundance.
3. Tall wall size reduced to “6”, but blocks all LOS through (except for units adjacent). Tanks may attempt to move through a tall wall but with a significant chance of bogging down and/or throwing a track. Don’t drink and drive. If you clip a tall wall along a road, you might get immobilized. Live by waypoints, stay off the calvados when operating heavy machinery.
4. Large hedgerows are impassable to all vehicles, but AT guns can be placed in them.
5. Bunker walls block all movement and LOS. It’s necessary to micromanage troops moving in and out of bunkers via bunker doors and windows.
6. Bocage pit and weapon pit walls modified to enable use by infantry and large caliber guns. These are good hiding places and may only receive area fire if a unit is located by the enemy.
7. The maps in GJS are coded to provide more cover and protection for infantry inside buildings along with straightforward movement through buildings. This is strict departure from how all other CC maps are coded. The elements file in GJS is also specially designed to work in consort with GJS maps.
8. Courtyards: there are more courtyard areas in the maps in order to keep vehicles out of where they would not be able to travel.
Names
1. Created Canadian names to over 2,200 historically and culturally relevant names.
2. Revised British names for a better representation of historically/culturally relevant British names, (over 4,300 names represented).
3. Expanded German names to over 900, added roughly 300 historically/culturally relevant names.
Soldiers
1. Removed grenades from tank crews as this would not be something they would typically take time to grab on the way out of a hit/burning tank—tank crews now run for the rear lines in LSA and no longer participate in combat.
2. Reduced number of German soldiers carrying Schiessbechers.
3. A number of other changes.
Vehicles
1. Thoroughly overhauled amour values for all vehicles and guns. Values researched and calculated as per requirements and formulas required by LSA engine.
2. Revised, corrected vehicle/gun movement speed and sizes.
3. Turret traverse rates thoroughly researched and fixed. In some cases reasonable compromises had to be made between maximum and minimum traverse rates based on engine rpm (e.g. Panther and Tiger). Where manual traverse turret speeds were unknown, appropriate comparisons were made with other known, manual traverse rates. Given the above, turret rotation rates were slowed for all tanks consistently. The CC engine does not consider that the gunner had to elevate the gun and sight target after rotating the turret. This is factored into, and reflected in slightly slower turret rotation rates across the board.
4. Added 4” smoke discharger to certain vehicles.
5. Adjusted .50cal AA fire arc for M-10 and M-10 IIc to side and rear. Even this adjustment may be generous since this weapon was primarily an AA weapon and required considerable crew exposure outside of turret to fire in any direction except rear arc. There were times this weapon was mounted in the front of the turret, but sources suggest this was rare. Given the very slow manual turret traverse of these vehicles, this seemed like a reasonable compromise in its favor.
6. Adjusted ammunition load-outs for M-10 and M-10 IIc.
7. Removed Nahverteidigungswaffe from many German tanks that did not have this installed at time of Normandy campaign.
8. Fixed Nahverteidigungswaffe to smoke-only (removed its mythological mortar-like, anti-personnel characteristics).
9. Removed AA MG 34 from PzIVH.
10. Fixed crew size in Sherman Flail.
11. Added new vehicles:
a. 5cm Kampfwagenkanone
b. mSPW S303(f)
c. leSPW U304(f)
d. 3.7cm PaK leSPW U304(f)
e. 7.5cm PaK 40 mSPW S307(f)
f. 15cm sFH 13 auf Lorraine
g. 15cm sIG33 (Sf) Ausf H
h. 15cm sIG33 (Sf) Ausf M
i. Daimler Armoured Car (Mk. I /II combined as one vehicle type, and historically present with 2nd Derbyshire Yeomanry, 51st Highland Div.)
j. Humber Scout Car
k. SdKfz 221 with 2.8cm Pzbchs (Pz.Aufkl.Abt.21)
l. SdKfz 222
m. SdKfz 251/7
n. SdKfz 250/5
Weapons
1. Completely overhauled large caliber gun penetration values, accuracy, and ranges. Values researched and calculated as per new requirements of the LSA engine. With LSA the engine coding skewers how data is employed by certain weapons under certain circumstances. For example, HE shells are hard coded to be less accurate due to a different muzzle velocity, and their behavior only respond partially to changes in the data. Understanding and interpreting this is part art, and part science as historically accurate data does not always behave so with the way the game engine is coded, and the way the LSA .exe has evolved from previous versions.
2. Cleaned up a number of small errors in the original v4.4 data.
3. Completely overhauled large caliber gun range, penetration, and blast value data to improve accuracy and work smoothly with new coding in LSA .exe.
4. Revised and standardized rifle data.
5. British 2 inch mortar unit sizes were changed from two men to three men as was the organizational/paper practice by 1944 (except for motor battalions). Whether this was the practice in combat situations in Normandy is not well documented. Due to combat situation of British Airborne units in Normandy, left these units as 2-man teams, with fewer shells at their disposal.
6. Sniper weapons toned down and now have same killing power (penetration) as their non-sniper counterparts. Even so, snipers remain very effective at killing and suppressing entire teams.
7. Reduced accuracy values for all AFV MGs firing from inside tanks.
8. AVRE Petard/290mm spigot mortar: minimum range 30m, maximum range adjusted to 90 m, 10 m more than the effective range specifically mentioned in Vanguard of Victory: The 79th Armoured Division. Allied player now has only 60m window of employment. Additional effective range was added for gameplay/practical employment considerations. Player needs to carefully use AVRE for it to be effective.
9. Time to fire rates adjusted for many guns in order to reflect a more realistic flight time for mortar shells, charges, and large caliber guns, based on muzzle velocity. A mortar shell will actually travel for a more realistic flight time, though nowhere near the long flight time it actually took.
10. Fixed firing and flight time of Schiessbechers.
11. 4” smoke discharger: added to certain Commonwealth vehicles. Decision made to limit these fixtures to just two rounds since crews would have to reload from the outside during close combat, also due to limitations with CC/LSA exe which doesn’t allow for logical simulation of these smoke throwers on turrets and in vehicles with small crews. Reloading smoke dischargers, for example, can take priority over a move order for your vehicle. Keeping these dischargers restricted to the 2 rounds in chamber is a reasonable compromise. They can be manually fired, or the crew may fire independently for protection.
CONCLUSION
Like every CC version and mod, GJS is a game, not an accurate historical simulation. Game balance matters and so does history. Balancing both is the perpetual challenge. Historical purists, hard-core CC fans, and data zealots may find fault. More could always be done to satisfy both ends of the spectrum, but there would be no end to the tinkering, and the mod would never be released. As of June 2013, the mod is in BETA form. There are a host of know small issues with incomplete data, a few mismatched icons, and currently there is only a first draft of battlegroup composition. Every effort was made to get this out for beta testing. There is no set of single player battles, only the grand campaign which is designed for H2H.
Finally, as with the original release of GJS, this modification was designed with two human players in mind. This is where the CC series excels. If you are looking for a challenging game against the AI, you will be disappointed. The tactical movements of the AI will always frustrate, and tactical movement is the key to a fun and immersive experience in GJS. Find a human opponent!
Sample listing of some of the sources used for GJS-LSA:
Bird, Lorrin Rexford and Livingston, Robert D. (2001). World War II Ballistics: Armor and Gunnery. Albany, New York: Overmatch Press.
Carell, Paul. (1995). Invasion! They’re Coming! Atglen, PA: Schifffer Military History.
Chamberlain, Peter and Doyle, Hilary. (1999). Encyclopedia of German Tanks of World War Two. London: Butler and Tanner, Ltd., Frome & London.
Chamberlain, Peter and Ellis, Chris. (1967). Armour in Profile: Light Tank Mk. VII Tetrarch. London: Gothic Press.
D’Este, Carlo. (1983). Decision in Normandy. New York: Harper Perennial.
Fletcher, D. (1984). Vanguard of Victory: The 79th Armoured Division. London: Her Majesty’s Stationary Office.
Flint, Keith. (2004). Airborne Armour: Tetrarch, Locust, Hamilcar and the 6th Airborne Armoured Reconnaissance Regiment 1938-50. Solihull, West Midlands: Helion & Company Ltd.
Foulds, Tony. (1998). In Support of the Canadians: A British Anti-Tank Regiment’s first five weeks in Normandy. Canadian Military History, 7(2), 71-78.
Hastings, Max. (1999). Overlord: D-Day and the Battle for Normandy 1944. London: Pan Macmillan Ltd.
Kershaw, Robert. (1993). D-Day: Piercing the Atlantic Wall. Hersham, Surrey: Ian Allan Publishing Ltd.
McAndrews, Bill and Graves, Donald E. and Whitby, Michael. (1994). Normandy 1944: The Canadian Summer. Montreal: Éditions Art Global.
McKee, Alexander. (1984). Caen: Anvil of Victory. New York: Dorset Press.
Office of the Chief of Ordinance. (1944). Terminal Ballistic Data, Volume II, Artillery Fire. Washington, D.C.
Saunders, Tim. (2001). Hill 112: Battles of the Odon—1944. Barnsley, South Yorkshire: Pen & Sword Books Ltd.
Spielberger, Walter J. (1993). Sturmgeschütz & Its Variants. Atglen, PA: Schiffer Publishing, Ltd.
Steinhardt, Dr. Frederick P. (2008). Panzer Lehr Division 1944-45. Solihull, West Midlands: Helion & Company Ltd.
Számvéber, Norbert. (2012). Waffen-SS Armour in Normand: The Combat History of SS-Panzer Regiment 12 and SS-Panzerjäger Abteilung 12, Normandy 1944, Based on their Original War Diaries. Solihull, West Midlands: Helion & Company Ltd.
Von Luck, Hans. (1989). Panzer Commander: The Memoirs of Colonel Hans Von Luck. New York: Dell Publishing.
Zetterling, Niklas. (2000). Normandy 1944: German Military Organization, Combat Power and Organizational Effectiveness. Winnipeg: JJ Fedorowicz Publishing, Inc.
Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:57 am Post subject: Re: GJS for LSA
Hi all,
having trouble uploading. not sure why or how, but waiting to coordinate with Mooxe acrosss multiple timezones to resolve. stay tuned and sorry for the delay.
Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:25 pm Post subject: Re: GJS for LSA
No i actually ment the fact that i can bring a certain bg in the map where i wanted, for example drop an airborne bg somewhere to assist * para's or a tank bg coming in from a friendly area of supply depot, but i can choose when it comes in like dropping supply .. but thats still future stuff i think
I had 2 more questions, they are also important to gjs - lsa because its related. thats why i post them here
I ve been playing LSA campaign with adjudant kro.
- first when a frontline battlegroup is resting and there is another friendly bg under it (the reserve bg) and that reserve bg is not resting.
And a enemy bg comes in to the map does the frontline bg activate or does the reserve bg take over the job?
and what happens when both are resting does only the frontline bg wake up to fight, or do they both fight ?
- second thing i couldnt find in the manual.. if a german bg takes over maps with bridges can they still blow them up again?
thank you for the answers
Part of being a commander is knowing when to smile, make the troops happy
even if it is the last thing in the world you want to do
Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:12 am Post subject: Re: GJS for LSA
Lots of trouble trying to upload a half a gig installer. Have tried about 8 times using different methods--wetransfer, ftp, etc. I think the problem lies with my local ISP killing the connection after a certain amount of time. The failure is too consistent. No way to resume a download with this either--think the file is too compressed. I live in an area with a mediocre/medieval rural connection. Pain in the ass.
So, uploading all the maps and individual pieces. Someone else will have to make the installer on your end. This path is taking a lot more time and attention, hence the delay. Stay tuned, may be a couple more days until all is uploaded. Will keep you posted.
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In August of 2004, Zappi, Homba, Bambam887, RedScorpion and MOOXE all pitched
in to create this Close Combat site. I would to thank all the people who have visited
and found this site to thier liking. I hope you had time to check out some
of the great Close Combat mods and our forums. I'd also like to thank
all the members of our volunteer staff that have helped over
the years, and all our users that contributed to this site!
my man, thank you
but thats still future stuff i think
