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Do incapacitations count as a soldier's kills?

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gunsofbrixton

Rep: 6.1


PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:04 pm Post subject: Panthers In the Fog Game Lobby horrible (patch it!) Reply with quote

I would like to get anybody interested in PITF to ask Matrix to add the OPTION to direct connect in multiplayer instead of using their built in lobby by contacting them here:
http://www.matrixgames.com/support/

I just found out about the game lobby after playing some single player. This is seriously a horrible idea, not to mention damaging to the community.

1. You're dependent 100 per cent on THEIR servers all the time, so if it is even down momentarily you CANNOT play with someone else. Even temporary issues will destroy multiplayer. At least if you can connect directly via IP, you can circumvent any issues with the lobby or other applications like Gameranger, should it not work.  

2. Matrix/Slitherine might not care but most CC games are played well into the future after they're released. 10 years or more. This keeps the community alive, even if its small. If their servers are not around or supporting the games anymore, PITF is useless for us. You will not be able to play multiplayer. They are not Valve, this isn't Steam... it's unlikely they're going to keep a computer somewhere dedicated to this game running forever! Even Microsoft, a huge company, abandoned CC2 and their gaming lobby system called Microsoft Zone years ago.

3. It is reportedly affecting performance and making the game slower and laggy over the network. This is not an issue with direct connections! IF you can connect then you have to worry about the game being slow and unplayable.

4. There is no LAN play as far as I know? If you have no internet and are on a network with someone locally that you want to play with, you cannot.

Most people want to play with others and Matrix is making this extremely hard. We are not getting what we pay for. They're charging almost the same amount as other major games out there that actually require loads of production money, but this isn't Total War or Company of Heroes. On top of that, it might not even work half the time!

You're taking an age old formula that kept the series alive and just throwing it out to help people who are having NAT issues with their routers? And also, I assume, to stop piracy (as I'm sure you cannot use duplicate serials on their servers).

Is it worth it? I say no. Please patch your game, Matrix, and make it possible to direct connect BY CHOICE!

I, for one, will be asking them to include this in a future patch at http://www.matrixgames.com/support/
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:44 pm Post subject: Re: Panthers In the Fog Game Lobby horrible (patch it!) Reply with quote

Hi,

Some of the uppers here at CCS can update you on the current status of direct network connections using PitF.

In the meantime, I would like to comment as follows:  Arrow

It is entirely possible that Matrix/Slitherene might not be able to patch CC titles in a timley fashion. That has been the observation of many forumites over an extended period of time involving several re-released titles.

Patches, games fixes, or anything percieved as additional features, might be withheld, and just included or addressed in the release of a subsequent title. This may be part of the reason why you purhcased PitF instead of WaR or TLD.  Question

Now, that being said, WaR, TLD, and LSA, have been patched several times, but it has become apparent to moi, that said patches are forthcoming only if Matrix/Slitherene anticipates additional sales due to the patch.

For instance, people may have forgotton about the famous re-release of the re-releases. A repeat re-release, or a re-re-release.  Laughing

This condition of patches for sales, is futher demonstrated with the current LSA game, which has NOT been viable or usable for an extended period of time, but its latest patches correspond with the re-release of the GJS mod for the re-released LSA "platform". This was probably their intention from the beginning, and may account for why Cathartes shifted the GJS mod from TLD to LSA.

In the end, its all about money (sales), even the mods, patches notwithstanding.  Shocked


Last edited by Stwa on Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mooxe

Rep: 221.1
votes: 25


PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:56 pm Post subject: Re: Panthers In the Fog Game Lobby horrible (patch it!) Reply with quote

Yeah we brought up the exact same points.

When we brought the points up Matrix/Slitherine did not ignore them.

They were disregarded.


Join Discord for technical support and online games.
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gunsofbrixton

Rep: 6.1


PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:53 am Post subject: Re: Panthers In the Fog Game Lobby horrible (patch it!) Reply with quote

mooxe wrote (View Post):

When we brought the points up Matrix/Slitherine did not ignore them.

They were disregarded.


Wait, did they ignore/disregard you or not?

If they choose to ignore us, fine, but they are ignoring the very small consumer base they have. Perhaps their business is failing and they're taking one last hail mary?  

It's fun (pitf) but I'm not getting my friends to buy it because it's really rather pointless to do so: I don't want a game to play temporarily. It's an investment to me, something we can play long term. And that's IF it is playable at the moment
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mooxe

Rep: 221.1
votes: 25


PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:07 am Post subject: Re: Panthers In the Fog Game Lobby horrible (patch it!) Reply with quote

They must of had very good reason to make the game playable via their own server lobby. One reason was there was no need to configure your firewall... Another reason is nobody can play multiplayer with a pirated version. They also said it was too much work to code direct connection option back in.

There's nothing we can do. Even not buying it wont sway their opinion. They pump these recycled versions out and forget about them. Passive income from the suckers that buy them.


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Tejszd

Rep: 133.6
votes: 19


PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:31 am Post subject: Re: Panthers In the Fog Game Lobby horrible (patch it!) Reply with quote

gunsofbrixton,

Best to post in the Matrix forum as I would bet nobody from Matrix is checking here. If you do post there I wouldn't hold your breath for them to change it as many already complained but it might influence what they do next time.....
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 10:43 pm Post subject: Re: Panthers In the Fog Game Lobby horrible (patch it!) Reply with quote

mooxe wrote (View Post):
There's nothing we can do. Even not buying it wont sway their opinion. They pump these recycled versions out and forget about them. Passive income from the suckers that buy them.


No doubt, and I believe most people have figured that out. It could be that gunsofbrixton has figured that out too, so he purchased the latest and "greatest" title, PitF, instead of perhaps WaR or TLD, and in so doing he won't consider himself a sucker until he desparately needs or wants a patch.   Laughing
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TheImperatorKnight

Rep: 30.4
votes: 1


PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:01 am Post subject: Re: Panthers In the Fog Game Lobby horrible (patch it!) Reply with quote

I know I'm going against the grain here, but I don't think it's as bad as some make it out to be. The server system is best for new players or players (like me) who don't want to mess around with IP addresses or connection problems. The only problem is finding a player. Once you've found a player though, it connects really easily and I've not experienced any major problems so far.


I have a Close Combat Youtube Channel

My Small Maps Mod for Close Combat: Gateway to Caen. Install guide and discussion
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CC_CO

Rep: 32.1
votes: 3


PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:36 am Post subject: Re: Panthers In the Fog Game Lobby horrible (patch it!) Reply with quote

I think the game-owned server is a beneficial solution. It simply reduce the risk of cheaters and pirate copies in use.

Cheaters in game communities have always had a negative impact on both the games and their related communities. However, it often takes a long time before an impact can be measured in for instance-a reduced player base, or a decrease in sale, so doing what you can against cheating is in fact really important.

Perhaps in the future, players from the CC community could rent / buy dedicated servers, signing code of conducts and what have you, in order to increase the amount of servers in use; should the multi player player base be increased.

Only remaining fundamental problem with the new CC games, is that they are not sold out in the shops and supermarkets any more. The digital sale-strategy has reduced the visibility of the game for the average consumer. A solution of some kind, perhaps marketing with other game companies, could be the answer to increase the sale and the player base in the multi player communities?
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Tejszd

Rep: 133.6
votes: 19


PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: Panthers In the Fog Game Lobby horrible (patch it!) Reply with quote

I do not have an issue with them adding/trying something to make it easier for newer or less technical players but do have a concern that they removed something that worked for the last 15 years  and could work for the next 15 years unlike the lobby/server solution they implemented.
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CC_CO

Rep: 32.1
votes: 3


PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: Panthers In the Fog Game Lobby horrible (patch it!) Reply with quote

In order to understand their decision-making (the new CC developers) you need to see it from their perspective; they spend money on every activity they make and those spendings have to generate money. Positive business.

Money is their fundamental perspective in everything they do. So for instance threatening with not buying their games wont work, unless that is, your threat represent the majority of their consumer base. Otherwise they couldent care any less. Their aim is to earn money and only that.

Hence, the new approach this CC community need to take with the new developers, is the so to speak How-can-they-make-money-on-our-suggestions approach. Any other approach will probably lead nowhere.

So when something has worked greatly for the community the last 15 years, it really doesn't matter. I don't mean to sound disrespectful here, I'm just trying to explain how they think.

This community therefore should emphasize no more talk about pirate copies and torrent downloads. As an absolutely minimum that is. Because otherwise they will continue to perceive this community as a potential money-drainer, a negativity, not being part of their positive segment in their market-analysis.

In their point of view this website is most probably just another market-channel out there. And since it is not a channel they make money on, or control, it is not an important channel. Perhaps to a certain degree, this channel is an inspiration in relation to game-related ideas and solutions, how modders approach the game, different types of user experiences, new and old gamer tendencies and so forth. But as it stand this channel is not important and naturally shouldn't be. It would be a poor market-analysis making a channel like this important. Cause no money is made on it, as developer you don't control it and some of its users openly use pirate copies, not to mention the self perception this channel has; no vision about allying with the developers, expressing its own position on the map.    

Therefore the challenge for this community, as I see it - Respectfully, is to figure out how to position it self in this new landscape now carved up by the new owners of the game. The owner of this website can not do it alone, nor can a few old modders. It has to be a major part of the community that somehow align internally and reposition externally.  

Its almost like when your playing Close Combat it self and your now facing that Mg bunker 100 meters in front of you on the flat and open map. Terrible map, terrible situation. Unfair. And you have no tank-support, no arty, no air, no sniper, no rocket, no flame or explosives, almost no nothing except a few rifles and a few hand grenades. So the 15 rounds of ammo and weapons that worked so well for you the last 15 minutes of battle has now been used up. So Now its about being creative again, and somehow flank that bunker 100 meters in front of you. Cause the extra ammo, the food and all the supplies are on the far side of that bunker.

You need to reorganize and rethink. Otherwise your stuck.

I hope my tone is not too harsh, or sound arrogant, I don't mean it so, its just my picture of the overall situation, after the game got new owners.
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Schmal_Turm

Rep: 60.4
votes: 1


PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:07 pm Post subject: Re: Panthers In the Fog Game Lobby horrible (patch it!) Reply with quote

CC_CO

I think that is a very intelligent and succinct way of putting our dilemma. I agree with many of the gamers that it would be great to have more games based on the Eastern Front. Why Matrix doesn't make those I don't know; maybe someone needs to ask them that if they haven't already. I for one am grateful for ALL of the games and plan on showing my support by buying any that come out, except maybe for 3D which I am not sure will work that well anyway. I am especially grateful that there is a continuous line of new CC games as they are about the only ones I play anyway and I can't seem to find a lot of agreement with most of the complaints that issue from this forum of what I consider many trivial issues. I never really understood, for instance, the problem that bothers many of you that the men are too big to fit into a tank. As I have said a couple of times now, these are simulations at best. When I still played with miniatures I am sure that the scale we used was not accurate for the size of the miniatures used. So what! It was a simulation.

It has bothered me, also, with some talk from time to time of pirating which doesn't do the gamer maker any good, namely no revenue coming in, and I am sure they are not too happy to hear such talk from probably the best CC site available. It is like my son who claims that the money the music artists generate from sales of CDs is nothing as they get their money from concerts so it is alright to use pirated music. I am sure they all agree with that comment - especially the ones that don't give concerts.



"No plan ever survives first contact with the enemy." Moltke
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Tejszd

Rep: 133.6
votes: 19


PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:07 am Post subject: Re: Panthers In the Fog Game Lobby horrible (patch it!) Reply with quote

Like many situations there are extremes on both sides that go to far and the real situation is somewhere in between.

Matrix has to make money, no doubt they are a business. I own all re-releases to support them and like you haven't found a game that can yet replace CC. But as fan and mod maker it can be hard to understand the features added (and taken away) and the lack of testing/patches.

The community has a lot of great ideas and kept CC alive when nobody wanted to release games so how can we influence Matrix???

To patch some outstanding bugs?
To put direct connection back in so we can play when they are gone?
To go to areas the game has not been (France, N. Africa, Italy, etc.)?
To add features without removing old features?
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:20 am Post subject: Re: Panthers In the Fog Game Lobby horrible (patch it!) Reply with quote

You gotta figure over the years, we have had plenty of forumites (the ones who could not control themselves  Laughing ), come into the site, and flagrantly, and without warning, use the P WORD, to slam GAMERS.  Exclamation

This site, at its inception was probably intended for fans, and primarily intended to feature CC5 and its mods that had come into existence by 2004.

The entire CCS member database (the small amount currently active, and the vast remainder inactive), are less than those just connected to and just shopping at Matrix on a single day or two in December.

Of the currently active fans, there are probably 2 dozen or so lifers, that post on a regular basis. Their commentary regarding CC5 are mostly supportive of that title. Other commentary, simply reflects the sheer astonishment that a single game title (CC5), that would otherwise be very successful, was in fact, outrageously mismanaged by every responsible producer since the year 2000.

MEDIA PIRATES come in many shapes and sizes. Periodically, dolts come in, and sling the P WORD around, generally accusing gamers. A closer examination of the issue, might provide clues to the REAL pirates among us.

In the US, the software industry has been wrapped in a succession of government regulation, that allows game producers and developers to abuse consumers at every level. That abuse continues apace and unabated.

The REAL Media Pirates


Last edited by Stwa on Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 6:27 pm Post subject: Re: Panthers In the Fog Game Lobby horrible (patch it!) Reply with quote

BUT ...

No matter how bad the Media Predators get, it could always be worse.

Be sure to turn the volume down at 2:50.  Idea

Warning (some language may offend), and does this guy look like a pirate to anyone.  Question


Link
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mooxe

Rep: 221.1
votes: 25


PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:06 pm Post subject: Re: Panthers In the Fog Game Lobby horrible (patch it!) Reply with quote

CC_CO wrote (View Post):
I hope my tone is not too harsh, or sound arrogant, I don't mean it so, its just my picture of the overall situation, after the game got new owners.


Your picture is pretty accurate.


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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:53 am Post subject: Re: Panthers In the Fog Game Lobby horrible (patch it!) Reply with quote

Cheaters in game communities have always had a negative impact on both the games and their related communities. However, it often takes a long time before an impact can be measured in for instance-a reduced player base, or a decrease in sale, so doing what you can against cheating is in fact really important.

Perhaps in the future, players from the CC community could rent / buy dedicated servers, signing code of conducts and what have you, in order to increase the amount of servers in use; should the multi player player base be increased. -CC_CO


Yes, I agree about cheating, but Novalogic, did exactly this to absolutey no avail. CC market is so thin, that it is hard to round up players for the existing servers (lobbies), much less create even more servers and lobbies.
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:21 am Post subject: Re: Panthers In the Fog Game Lobby horrible (patch it!) Reply with quote

Only remaining fundamental problem with the new CC games, is that they are not sold out in the shops and supermarkets any more. The digital sale-strategy has reduced the visibility of the game for the average consumer. A solution of some kind, perhaps marketing with other game companies, could be the answer to increase the sale and the player base in the multi player communities? -CC_CO

Perhaps, but consider the following articles. They seem to imply that Brick and Mortar sales represent the Stone Age.  Arrow

There are over one billion PC gamers in the world now, and DFC expects the industry to grow to $25.7 billion by 2016. As Matt Ployhar, PCGA president pointed out at a press conference yesterday, "you need to add three consoles to get close to that figure.

Report: PC gaming software sales reached $20 billion in 2012

Electronic Arts has announced its preliminary financial results [PDF] from the fiscal quarter ending on June 30th, reporting "solid" performance propped up by a robust increase in digital net revenue.

EA's digital revenues outpace brick-and-mortar sales
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:35 am Post subject: Re: Panthers In the Fog Game Lobby horrible (patch it!) Reply with quote

This community therefore should emphasize no more talk about pirate copies and torrent downloads. As an absolutely minimum that is. Because otherwise they will continue to perceive this community as a potential money-drainer, a negativity, not being part of their positive segment in their market-analysis. -CC_CO

I am not sure to what extent this community has ever emphasized TALK about pirate copies and torrent downloads.

In this modern time, either a consumer has a valid lawful license to use the software or NOT. If true (a valid license), then how the software was obtained has less meaning.
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:23 am Post subject: Re: Panthers In the Fog Game Lobby horrible (patch it!) Reply with quote

But as it stand this channel [CCS] is not important and naturally shouldn't be. It would be a poor market-analysis making a channel like this important. Cause no money is made on it, as developer you don't control it and some of its users openly use pirate copies, not to mention the self perception this channel has; no vision about allying with the developers, expressing its own position on the map.  -CC_CO

OK, you keep saying how you are being respectful just before you blow the heavy accusations. And I saw what mooxe said too. But here is my equally respectful response.

I would bet a paycheck that the Matrix registered (active or inactive) database contains a lot more individuals that have used (openly?) pirate copies of software. It's just statistics. CCS has what around 30,000 or less (?), whereas the Matrix database has gazillions more.

Your comments regarding the allying with the developers doesn't seem accurate to me either. Do you realize how many registered CCS users have functioned partially or completely on the various Matrix project teams that brought some of the re-releases to market.

And do you realize that these project teams (developers notwithstanding) are subject to a NDA (non disclosure agreement)? What that means is the developers themselves CANNOT collaborate (speak) with ANYONE outside of the project team (CCS forumites included) about ANYTHING related to the development project.
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