I just started my first campaign with this mod (so maybe I should not reply yet .
Since you are working on new version, I wil give my opinion as a CC lover.
It seems sometimes that it is not possible to hide in a building. The enemy can see and shoot right through the building. Even when you're totally on the other side of the building you're not hidden. This is necasary to ambush tanks.
I also don't know how to stop the never ending stream of KV-1's, because there's hardly any unit with AT capability. It takes a flamethrower 5 bursts to destroy KV-1. The time it needs to turn it's turret towards you. PAC-40 cannot even destroy them from the side (close range).
Also T34 seems to be at the advantage. With the enemy russians on Elite the still see 14 KV-1's in a unit (what can you do?). Cut off their supply?
I like the agressiveness, but I need something to work with. Out in the flat you have no chance of survival.
One time I lost almost all my men and the russians a vew. Didn't even scratch a tank with two PAc-40's, one 12.5 cm IG and one flamethrower attack of three bursts.
On the other hand, if you can stop a breakthrough (normally only the ones without tanks) you can easily take the whole battle map in the end.
Maybe it will get better later. I do not have Panzer yet . Sturmgeschutz cannot do much.
Thanks for your suggestions. The mod is not perfect, I know these. Anyway I hope that sometime you enjoy with it.
Speaking in general, the mod need a better "historical" work on the power of the guns in relation to their various range, and some rework on armour of the tanks. So many of your considerations are true.
KV tanks: I had already reworked KV armour for v.1.1. (but I can assure you that playing in past I have destroyed many of them. Even 3.7cm from time to time can do it at close range: black target means from 0 to 9% chance to hit).
7.5cm pak40 is one of the new weapons of v1.1, in v.1.0 there isn't. 7.62cm have the problem that can't destroy KV from the side (I think you refer to it): I have already a little bit reworked it.
More in general, I have already reworked few others guns, KV armour, T-34 armour, PZIV armour for v.1.1 some months ago.
Heavy inf guns are strong but have few precision (and for me is good in this way): a veteran heavy gun has better precision and can be a hell against all type of russian tanks.
About flamethrower for me is good that rarely destroy KV at first shot. About Stugs: the stugIII can't do much against KV and for me is good in this way. Stug40 worked enough well against them (and in v.1.1 works better).
Drizzt,
Thanks for your reply. I really apreciate any modder and also your work. I didn't want to be harsh.
As I read about the KV's a little bit and they were kind of indestructable in the beginning. So it might be realistic. I didn't go up against them with heavy AT guns (88mm) yet.
I actually destroyed some and you'll have to use buildings to ambush them with flamethrower. T34's are easier to destroy. Also some maps have area's were they cannot come, so that helps.
Two russian tank units on the East ran out of supply after the first turn. That also helped. Who knows they might be stoppable through maneuvering them out of supply on the strategic map.
I read that the germans were able to destroy them with air-attack, Flack 88 and 120mm howitzers (is that the Hvy Inf Gun in the mod?).
My AT guns were indeed PAK 38's, not PAK 40's (wished I had them).
I don't know why it seems that there is less protection in/behind buildings then in other mods or CC games.
Don't worry, I have take your post in the right way: suggestions are welcomed.
About KV tanks, the general feeling (I mean too many black target) that there is in v.1.0, in v.1.1 there will be only against KV1(e). Standard KV tank, in v1.1, has a little bit less armour: they remain strong, but some more yellow target you will have against them.
Also I have reworked 5cm german guns (tanks guns and AT guns) because sometime they were really too strong at medium-long range.
And there are some others changements in AT guns, and armours of some tanks (I have recently reworked also PZIII armours).
In the mod, the german heavy and medium infantry guns are captured russian guns (they are arty guns). I have used them to represent the big losses of material suffered by russians in summer-fall 1941. German infantry divisions, in the mod, always have one type of them.
About the cover in buildings in some maps, it's possible that can be some errors: for now I don't have planned to work on maps.
I've come much further in the historical campaign now. It's quiet a challenge against these russians (that is good, since AI seems to be always in disadvantage in CC). I have both of us play at elite, but there seems to be no difference between elite or recruit for the AI russian player. They have endless amounts of KV-1's (I hoped by letting the russians play on elite they would have less KV-1's to destroy , T-34's are hard enough).
At the moment my first tanks brigades are coming in play and I will have to see how they will do against russians tanks. The captured russian T34's seem to do better then PzIV's. That's just from one battle.
What I noticed is that the StuG40's have a hard time destroying BA-10's even tho they have only 15mm armour (I believe) and StuG40's have 7.5cm guns. BA-10's can destroy StuG40's from the extra armoured front side with there 45mm guns in a few shots it seems and I cannot destroy a single one in 10 shots. I thought StuG's should be superior. Overall BA-10 performs really (too) good against any german AT gun or armour. The weakness seems to be against infantry. If they come close to german infantry they are destroyed or abandoning their vehicle after a volley of hand grenades.
I think there seems to be a good balance between both sides overall. You can hold bridges against superior power and I have held the train station on Belgorod since the beginning againt superior oponent.
I also have isolated some russian tank brigades and they have to fight me out of supply. That means I cannot destroy them and they cannot destroy me and I have to wait till they totally run out of infantry and ammunition (hehe).
Your maps are great and full of adventure.
I'll let you know how I fare with my tank brigades against the russian ones :tank :tank2 .
I have my Panzers involved now against BA-10's.
I thought let's bring up 8 PzIV's with 7.5 cm guns against all these BA-10's and see what happens. I thought that would be easy win.
But my PzIV's had a very hard time destroying them. One BA-10 disabled the main gun of two of my Panzers and destroyed another one and I could not destroy that one BA-10 with four PzIV's.
The BA-10's seem to perform like medium tanks.
Also in another battle I could not destroy a KV-1 with a captured T34. The KV-1 had lost it's main gun and I kept pounding it with my T34. It never blew up. I gave up after 25 rounds against the front armour.
Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 2:20 pm Post subject: Re: Working on version 1.1
Fun mod, i really enjoy this eastern front style mod, and its nice to have one set in summer\spring. I thought i would leave a few comments for when you have the opportunity someday to resume modding.
My biggest issue lies with the experience\moral levels of both sides. Many of these russian troops are fresh conscipts and that goes for the tank crews as well, and many eastern mods(Battle of berlin, stalingrad, etc) have soviet infantry that will buckle pretty easily and surrenders somewhat common. However, these infantry are fighting pretty hard and no morale problems seen so far.
Various sources also mention the poor training of t-34 crews and personal accounts ive read from either side certainly support that. But it seems the t-34\kv-1 is on level ground with pzIV in this regard, meaning soviets have total tank dominance. We all know t-34 is better then pzIV however historically the germans have better tanker crews at this point and after all the attack did fail resulting in loss of tons of t-34 so its fair to say they shouldnt mop the flour with germans here.
For a mod covering a battle that the germans won(and such a decisive victory) the balance of forces are pretty clearly in favor of soviets. This means the mod is unsuitable for multiplayer which is a very unfortunate. It seems to me if the germans had more veteran troops overall, and soviets bumped down across the board, it would not only be more accurate historically but more balanced for multiplayer.
I highly advocate reducing vehicle\tank machine gun effectiveness vs infantry, also. Im no expert on the topic but reading through tanker accounts, they cannot actually rack up 100+ infantry kills like they easily can ingame. This is a common problem with all CC games\mods though...
Personally, i would remove 6-12 of the most western maps and replace those maps into the middle of the eastern edge of the map, to increase the distance between both attacking armies. Right now i feel its to easy for the soviets to link up, so when german armour attacks from the south it has little effect. Most human players would surely resign by the time kharkov falls, so these maps seem unlikely to play a part.
I have had no problems with instability on any map with any BG, so thumbs up in that regard.
Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:58 am Post subject: Re: Working on version 1.1
Hi to all, soon I think to release Kharkov v. 1.2. Basically this is the old work in progress version 1.1 with some more adjustements that I have done from time to time through the last years. One of my purpose was to do a new stratmap, but I haven't found the time to do it. So I would release this version that, even without a new stratmap, is a good improvement.
Here the new things:
Changements in v. 1.2 (v. 1.1 included)
- 1 operation added.
- New color interface when you play in the maps (game.gadg file reworked).
- 2 campaigns reworked.
- 2 operations lightly reworked.
- 11 battles lightly reworked.
- reinforcement button restored and russian BGs a bit reduced about number of tanks. (Against the IA, in my opinion is better in this way because if you hide the button working on his graphic, IA use it anyway; and if you hide the button with an hex editor, again IA use it anyway. Finally, historically in this offensive the russians had the double of men towards germans, but not the double of tanks).
- 13 Bgs names reworked/corrected.
- removed german motorized division BG type because the two in my mod weren't motorised. Now many german infantry divisions have a mixed Battlegroup formed by divisional aufklarungs Abteilung plus divisional panzerjager Abteilung.
- all wrong german BGs generals photo and name have been corrected to respect mod timeline.
- 1 tank and 1 vehicle in tank.azp lightly reworked.
- 1 map preview and 1 map image in stratmap corrected.
- 5 btd map files lightly reworked.
- 36 tga graphics files in scrn.gadg file reworked/corrected.
- 18 tga units images changed/corrected.
- 2 weapons added.
- 22 weapons reworked.
- 2 team added.
- 18 teams reworked.
- 19 BGs lightly reworked.
- Number of crews of some vehicles corrected.
- various minor corrections in adb files.
Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:37 pm Post subject: Re: Working on version 1.1
to Southern land: unfortunately, as I have written, for now I don't have time for "deep modding", but of course I thought about the possibility to port the mod to TLD. When (and if) will be the time, I will do a new stratmap more historical and "professional" (hoping strat edit tool will works with TLD): this is for me a priority before porting the mod.
A quick reply to some old considerations (I don't have seen the forum for years) about maps west and south-west kharkov: for me a real total victory is not only take the city, but secure it against german counterattack reaching for example Palvograd, so, in my opinion, maps south-west and west Kharkov, in this sense, are usefull.
About all other comments, the new and the very old, thanks for the support and the suggestions.
Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: Working on version 1.1
Further modifications that are in version 1.2:
- further 21 Bgs names-icons-patch reworked/corrected (now all russians and germans Bgs are historical corrected)
- all wrong russian BGs generals photo and name have been corrected.
- added few Bgs of 1st Tank Army and some more of 17th Army.
- About Armies deplyement, all german and russian Bgs are now in the correct strat-map position (of course considering my stratmap limits).
- 7 maps names changed, 3 maps name have a new stratmap position (you don't need to re-download maps).
- many btd map files lightly reworked.
- morale and experience of many russian teams and of some german teams reworked.
- 1 tank in tank.azp graphically changed.
- further tga graphics files in scrn.gadg file reworked/corrected.
- All campaigns, operations and battles remaded (I need to test a little bit here)
Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:24 am Post subject: Re: Working on version 1.1
Hi Drizzt good to see you. in Kharkov 1.0 when I play round 2 , allways show 0x0050bf79 ?????0x00cf2000?????????read?why? other geys find this?
[img]http://[/img]
Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:08 pm Post subject: Re: Working on version 1.1
to hit951202: Hi, please be more specific in future when you report a problem/bug about mods: "second round" of which operation/campaign? Anyway, I say "in future" because for now it's useless for me reistall v 1.0 because v 1.2 will be ready for download soon.
Moreover, nobody in these years have reported the same error that you report so for sure it's not a mod problem, but a problem of your installation/configuration of CC5 and/or the mod. I try to help you: try to uninstall all (CC5 and the mod). After uninstall, check if some CC5 folders are still there and manually delete them even if empty, finally reinstall all: in this way you will try a totally clean new istallation. I hope can help.
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:16 pm Post subject: Re: Working on version 1.1
Hi to all,
I have always tried to make all the possible changes in both versions (CC5 and TLD): for this reason I need more time (I hope only a week) to convert my last Data work also for the CC5 version.
For now, here the final list of the changes of CC5 v 1.2 of the mod:
- All campaigns, operations and battles remade.
- 1 operation added.
- 11 maps names changed
- 4 (old) maps names have a new stratmap position.
- 1 map preview and 1 map image in stratmap corrected.
- many btd map files lightly reworked.
- corrected multiplayer screen.
- 32 Bgs names-icons-patch reworked/corrected (now all russians and germans Bgs are historically corrected).
- 10 men squads fully supported in the battle interface.
- new Bgs icons.
- new medals for russians.
- removed german motorized division BG type because the two in the mod weren't motorized. Now many german infantry divisions have a mixed battlegroup formed by divisional aufklarungs Abteilung plus divisional panzerjager Abteilung.
- added some Bgs of 1st Tank Army and some more of 17th Army.
- About Armies deployment, all german and russian Bgs are now in the correct stratmap position (of course considering my stratmap limits).
- all wrong german and russian BGs general photos and names have been corrected.
- 2 tanks and 1 vehicle in Tanks.azp lightly reworked.
- 1 gun in Guns.azp lightly reworked, 1 gun in Guns.azp heavily reworked and 1 gun added.
- 1 tank in tank.azp graphically changed (Matilda), 1 Stug added.
- many tga graphics files in scrngadg.gdg and ccimages.pix reworked/corrected.
- New color interface when you play in the maps (gamegadg.gdg file reworked).
- 22 tga unit images changed/corrected.
- 2 weapons added.
- 23 weapons reworked.
- 5 teams added.
- 36 teams reworked.
- morale and experience of all russian teams and of some german teams reworked.
- Number of crews of some vehicles corrected.
- reinforcement button restored.
- 1 video added.
- new Music.sfx file.
- russian forcepools deeply reworked; german forcepools reworked.
- various minor corrections in adb files.
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In August of 2004, Zappi, Homba, Bambam887, RedScorpion and MOOXE all pitched
in to create this Close Combat site. I would to thank all the people who have visited
and found this site to thier liking. I hope you had time to check out some
of the great Close Combat mods and our forums. I'd also like to thank
all the members of our volunteer staff that have helped over
the years, and all our users that contributed to this site!
.
. Sturmgeschutz cannot do much.
