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sieterayos

Rep: 13.4


PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:01 am Post subject: Re: The Ukraine Reply with quote

dj wrote (View Post):
Siet you're making no sense man.  Just admit that Putin has an imperialist regime of his own - not even remotely close to the Socialist utopia you desire.

So you think the journalists were detained because they are fascist spies?  Or let me guess it was a conspiracy by the media to make believe journalists were detained.

Now Putin is offering citizenship to anyone in former USSR.  Much like what the Imperial Romans did.


Your head is scrambled with imperialist propaganda.

Just admit that Putin has an imperialist regime of his own
No, Putin is a capitalist leader of a country which is too economically retarded to have arrived at imperialism in the Marxist sense of the term, that is, one in which finance capital has achieved primacy over all other forms of capital, has saturated the domestic economy at the current productive technology, and is driven therefore to invest abroad in the search for profit. This process puts the competing capital of imperialist nations at odds with one another and led to the last century's world war part 1 and 2.

Therefore,

[and is] not even remotely close to the Socialis[m] you desire

Show me anywhere in the text of my posts where I say, imply or insinuate in any way that Putin and the Russian Federation are socialist? No you can't, and you say I do either because you don't bother to read them or you are too stupid to understand them. But please, be my guest and read them to verify my assertion. I haven't a pro RF of Putin cell in my body.

So you think the journalists were detained because they are fascist spies?

I don't know why the journalists were detained but in the current situation I can certainly think of a number of reasons why they might by strung up or shot. The crap you and your kind come out with is just one. Detention seems quite restrained, really, when you see how Goebbels Inc. is burying the truth and distorting what is happening in Ukraine.

 Or let me guess it was a conspiracy by the media to make believe journalists were detained.

One possibility, but not high on my list.

Now Putin is offering citizenship to anyone in former USSR.  Much like what the Imperial Romans did.

Another load of horse. Putin is making it easier for Russian speaking citizens and stateless people from places like Ukraine to live in the Russian Federation and become citizens. In other words, he's telling them "don't drag us into the war the US/EU is provoking, if you fear persecution come and live in RF." He's desperately looking for a way out.
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sieterayos

Rep: 13.4


PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:04 am Post subject: Re: The Ukraine Reply with quote

mooxe wrote (View Post):
Code:
alleged aggressive Russian interests


Seriously?


Once again, evading mention of the overt aggression of US/EU imperialism which has created and continues to drive this situation..
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pt11070

Rep: 15.6
votes: 1


PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:36 pm Post subject: Re: The Ukraine Reply with quote

I would be very surprised if Russia stays out of Ukraine. The question is the whole thing or just some parts. But judging by the experience from Georgia it will be parts.

I hope and pray it doesn't happen, but the world and it's ways are always based on power and lack of trust.
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mooxe

Rep: 170.8
votes: 23


PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:50 pm Post subject: Re: The Ukraine Reply with quote

sieterayos wrote (View Post):
mooxe wrote (View Post):
Code:
alleged aggressive Russian interests


Seriously?


Once again, evading mention of the overt aggression of US/EU imperialism which has created and continues to drive this situation..


Why would I need to mention it? The reality now is the Ukraine is getting pieced up and added to Russia.
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sample

Rep: 60
votes: 3


PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:27 pm Post subject: Re: The Ukraine Reply with quote

some elements in this developing story:
- it is reported by a polish newspaper (http://nie.com.pl/13-2014/tajemnica-stanu-tajemnica-majdanu) training was given to the most violent of the EuroMaidan activists. According to this source, in September 2013, Polish Foreign Minister Rados?aw Sikorski invited 86 members of the Right Sector (Sector Pravy), allegedly in the context of a university exchange program. In reality, the guests were not students, and many were over 40. Contrary to their official schedule, they did not go to the Warsaw University of Technology, but headed instead for the police training center in Legionowo, an hour’s drive from the capital. There, they received four weeks of intensive training in crowd management, person recognition, combat tactics, command skills, behavior in crisis situations, protection against gases used by police, erecting barricades, and especially shooting, including the handling of sniper rifles. Such training took place in September 2013, while the Maidan Square protests were allegedly triggered by a decree suspending preparations for the signing of the Ukraine-European Union Association Agreement, which was issued by Prime Minister Mykola Azarov on November 21, i.e. two months later.
- right from the outset, the "peaceful" protesters used slingshots (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a94mNfmZ1gc ) to combat the police in very similar as the syrian insurgency used similar makeshift weapons (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOll9QS7z_w); it is now widely accepted that fsa insurgents, and the other rebel factions are openly supported by western powers via Qatar and Saudi Arabia secret services (even TOW AT rockets surfaced in the hands of rebels in recent weeks - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_I7Z7Zkei6E)
- moreover, there is no doubt that the coup was sponsored by the United States, as evidenced by the telephone conversation between Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland and Ambassador Geoffrey R. Pyatt, see the infamous "fuck the UE" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QxZ8t3V_bk)
- further more, Estonian Foreign Minister Urmas Paet (http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/05/world/europe/ukraine-leaked-audio-recording/) raised question about the identity of maidan snipers, after a visit in Ukraine, when it was told that opponents of Ukraine's ousted President may have been responsible for deadly sniper fire.

so, the "peaceful" revolt was planed long time ago, and the consequences were predictable: Putin would not stand still and will act to protect the russian peoples;

on a bigger picture the same scenario applied in Syria which is now entering in the fourth year of civil war is put in practice in Ukraine, and today's events are only further proof of this; in Syria, an ally of Iran, the small anti Assad protests were transformed with the help of qatari and saudi intelligence into an open armed conflict with Damascus and in similar fashion, the Ukraine, a potential ally for Russia under Yanukovych is slowly dragged into a civil war.

regards,
m.
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sieterayos

Rep: 13.4


PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:16 pm Post subject: Re: The Ukraine Reply with quote

mooxe wrote (View Post):
sieterayos wrote (View Post):
mooxe wrote (View Post):
Code:
alleged aggressive Russian interests


Seriously?


Once again, evading mention of the overt aggression of US/EU imperialism which has created and continues to drive this situation..


Why would I need to mention it? The reality now is the Ukraine is getting pieced up and added to Russia.


No, the reality is that a neo-Nazi led coup has been prepared and executed by US/EU imperialism as part of a strategic aim to dismember and destroy the Russian Federation. You wouldn't want to mention US/EU aggression because it doesn't suit your false narrative.
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dgfred

Rep: 46.8


PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:55 pm Post subject: Re: The Ukraine Reply with quote

Of course each power/country will try to influence groups that oppose the opposite power/country.

Why would the US try to 'destroy/dismember' the Russian Federation? Maybe weaken.

A solid Russian Federation is much better than a volitile situation throughout the country IMO.


Sports Freak/ CC Commander/ Panzerblitz Commander
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sieterayos

Rep: 13.4


PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:50 pm Post subject: Re: The Ukraine Reply with quote

The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy And Its Geostrategic Imperatives

http://www.amazon.com/The-Grand-Chessboard-Geostrategic-Imperatives/dp/0465027261
 
Project for the new American Century

"The Project for the New American Century (PNAC) was an American think tank based in Washington, D.C. established in 1997 as a non-profit educational organization founded by William Kristol and Robert Kagan."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century

Robert Kagan

"He been a foreign policy advisor to several U.S. Republican presidential candidates as well as to Hillary Clinton, when she was Secretary of State under President Obama."

"Kagan is married to long-time career diplomat Victoria Nuland, who is currently serving as Assistant Secretary of European and Eurasian Affairs in the Barack Obama administration."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kagan

Victoria Nuland

""We’ve invested over $5 billion to assist Ukraine in these and other goals that will ensure a secure and prosperous and democratic Ukraine.""

"Nuland was discussing with Pyatt her plans for the role of the Ukrainian opposition leaders in the country’s coming government and the crises in Ukraine. Nuland said Vitali Klitschko should not be allowed into the government because he was too inexperienced, but that the coming PM should talk to him and to Svoboda "four times per week""

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Nuland
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Siwy899

Rep: 0.3


PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:11 pm Post subject: Re: The Ukraine Reply with quote

It all depends. For my country (Poland) it will be the best to dissolve as much Russian power as can be done, just like  fall of the Soviet Union. Russian politicians will be finding more and more excuses for regeining influences they have lost since 1991. No hard feelings to users from Russian Federation- it's just politics.
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sieterayos

Rep: 13.4


PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:27 pm Post subject: Re: The Ukraine Reply with quote

Siwy899 wrote (View Post):
It all depends. For my country (Poland) it will be the best to dissolve as much Russian power as can be done, just like  fall of the Soviet Union. Russian politicians will be finding more and more excuses for regeining influences they have lost since 1991. No hard feelings to users from Russian Federation- it's just politics.


Out of the frying pan and into the fire. You are now slaves to the EU and will doubtless be counted upon to provide the cannon fodder in the coming war 'cos not enough people in the West will fight. Very few I'd bet.

Enjoy Smile
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Siwy899

Rep: 0.3


PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: The Ukraine Reply with quote

I'm not saying EU is super great, my country holds minor position (but growing because of the latest events) in oposition to Germany or France. Poland is no more amongst leading powers, as it were in XVI ct., we have to join bigger political body to survive. You know, if I had to choose I choose West- at least our economy is growing because of UE dotations, in times of soviet occupation (1945-1991) my countryman suffered horrid poverty, people were dying because they were singing religious songs, I'm happy that time is gone and hope it will never come again. So, we have two points of view, but I'm not the one who swings the saber and eagerly wants to crush with foreign powers. I'm not saying either  that USA actions on the whole world are great, but I'd rather live under the influence of USA/EU than East.
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AT_Stalky

Rep: 27.4
votes: 10


PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:37 pm Post subject: Re: The Ukraine Reply with quote

Thanx Siet and others for the posts.

I’m very critical to US/West/NATO actions in Arab world as well as the Ukraine..  

But, I fear the Russians and what have stated to move now. I understand what Siwy say here, because for the last 300+ years, Sweden has the same experience….  If there is a problem, we just have to scratch the surface and there’s a Russian tsar [et al] popping out…

But, I do understand the Russians actions up to now, as being reactions rather than actions… But what will follow, does putin think we are to accept Baltic States to be russified to, then he will make a mistake that may take the world to WW3…?
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AT_Stalky

Rep: 27.4
votes: 10


PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:45 pm Post subject: Re: The Ukraine Reply with quote

And BTW, EU sux, and EURO sux even more…

I have no idea what we are trying to spread to the world here, more “suck” to the world?

Who will leave the EURO first, the weaker, Greece or any of the PIGS? History tells us it’s the stronger that leaves the currency union first, that would suggest Germany…

Then what…?

EU as a project… costs for ppl that don’t really contribute to any progress… What’s is it good for?


Nothing…

Absolutley nothing
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sieterayos

Rep: 13.4


PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:24 pm Post subject: Re: The Ukraine Reply with quote

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
Thanx Siet and others for the posts.

I’m very critical to US/West/NATO actions in Arab world as well as the Ukraine..  

But, I fear the Russians and what have stated to move now. I understand what Siwy say here, because for the last 300+ years, Sweden has the same experience….  If there is a problem, we just have to scratch the surface and there’s a Russian tsar [et al] popping out…

But, I do understand the Russians actions up to now, as being reactions rather than actions… But what will follow, does putin think we are to accept Baltic States to be russified to, then he will make a mistake that may take the world to WW3…?

Yes, I'm also sympathetic to Siwy989, I'd only wish Stalinist Great Russian nationalism on my worst enemies. The US/EU is exploiting half a century of "good will" it has generated in the ex-Soviet bloc but my enemy's enemy is not always my friend. This is the fate of small countries. As he also points out small nations can seldom take an independent road. That said, while a doubt many workers who backed Solidarnosc are anything less than disillusioned, the bill for NATO/EU protection has still to be paid in full.

I suspect that Poland is kept afloat more by money sent home by emigrant workers than by EU donations. In so far as its domestic economy is expanding it is because it has a relatively skilled workforce which works for much less and accepts much worse conditions than Western workers. Its growth is at the expense of higher paid workers in Germany particularly, and its taking work from countries where workers are used to better conditions represents part of the global "race to the bottom," the destruction of working class living standards won over generations of struggle in the period of nationally regulated economies.

This dynamic is mirrored here in the UK, where not just the traditional far right blame Polish workers for the need of capitalism to destroy workers pay and conditions. This need to blame a "foreign" section of workers for the systemic failure of capitalism is leading to worse conditions for immigrant workers here, including reduced access to health care and other benefits. As the "race to the bottom" continues, immigrant workers here will increasingly face victimisation and a squeeze on their already very poor pay. EU membership offers no long term solution to the problems of ex Soviet bloc workers.

Poland is in the front line of the war the US is now provoking. The US is doubtless counting on countries like Poland and the Baltic States to provide the cannon fodder in a war of attrition with the RF which will doubtless escalate to the use of tactical if not also strategic nuclear weapons.

Neither Moscow nor Washington offer the world's population a way forward. Russian nationalism in the Ukraine, however working class its social base, is no solution either. The Donbas workers can only move society forward by uniting with Ukrainian speaking workers against all the oligarchs in Kiev and Moscow and for a united socialist future based upon the equality of nations. The enemy of the working class is capitalism, whatever national costume it wears or language it speaks.
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:17 pm Post subject: Re: The Ukraine Reply with quote

I would be interested in any software tool that could count the occurance of a single word in all the posts of a thread.

Perhaps, we could count words, like fascist, neo-nazi, socialist, communist, oligarch, etc. It generally happens when there is more than 1 European posting in a thread.  Laughing

Well, no matter what Ukraine becomes in the future, me thinks Russia is doomed anyway.  Arrow  


Link
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:29 pm Post subject: Re: The Ukraine Reply with quote

I have no idea what we are trying to spread to the world here, more “suck” to the world? -AT_Stalky

I'm clueless.  Question  Arrow


Link
[/quote]
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Siwy899

Rep: 0.3


PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:33 pm Post subject: Re: The Ukraine Reply with quote

My friend's mother was born in USSR, now she lives in Silesia province, all do the repatriation process, shown in the map (she was moved from territory near Lwow- in Poland's border befaure World War II to proximity of Wroclaw- new gained lands after the war). We all laugh that Putin should send her Russian passport and then bring troops to protect Russian minority Wink


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dj

Rep: 123.9
votes: 7


PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:02 pm Post subject: Re: The Ukraine Reply with quote

sieterayos wrote (View Post):
The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy And Its Geostrategic Imperatives

http://www.amazon.com/The-Grand-Chessboard-Geostrategic-Imperatives/dp/0465027261
 
Project for the new American Century

"The Project for the New American Century (PNAC) was an American think tank based in Washington, D.C. established in 1997 as a non-profit educational organization founded by William Kristol and Robert Kagan."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century

Robert Kagan

"He been a foreign policy advisor to several U.S. Republican presidential candidates as well as to Hillary Clinton, when she was Secretary of State under President Obama."

"Kagan is married to long-time career diplomat Victoria Nuland, who is currently serving as Assistant Secretary of European and Eurasian Affairs in the Barack Obama administration."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kagan

Victoria Nuland

""We’ve invested over $5 billion to assist Ukraine in these and other goals that will ensure a secure and prosperous and democratic Ukraine.""

"Nuland was discussing with Pyatt her plans for the role of the Ukrainian opposition leaders in the country’s coming government and the crises in Ukraine. Nuland said Vitali Klitschko should not be allowed into the government because he was too inexperienced, but that the coming PM should talk to him and to Svoboda "four times per week""

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Nuland


You keep repeating the same BOGUS conspiracy theory accusations that don't have a single shred of actual facts or real evidence.  Where is the actual proof that US/EU is starting to provoke Russia?  Complete rubbish.  President Obama was a university student of the very same author of the book you cite as your sacred "evidence".

By the way - Neither true Capitalism nor Socialism exist any where in the world.  Not a single nation has this as their exclusive form of ideology.  Every nation has a hybrid.  If any nation tried to have a purity test by eliminating one of the other, it would cease to exist.  Some form of capitalism and socialism must co-exist.  All the Partisan fringes love to accuse either of other of being puppets for Nazi's or Commies...then our Politicians love to label Social Programmes as Socialism or Communism is just Partisan grandstanding.
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AT_Stalky

Rep: 27.4
votes: 10


PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:05 pm Post subject: Re: The Ukraine Reply with quote

Stwa for you:

Hidden: 
This thread has run for 19 pages without troll and derailing, unto now.

You’re perhaps trying to be funny…. But none is laughing… As usual.

Taking serious things as child pornography and using it for your rant or troll in this debate (or any debate for that matter)… This is so low.

Shame on you.


This thread:

The situation at the moment is the most serious since the end of the cold war, maybe even since the Cuban crisis.
People here at CCS, share there thoughts and angles of what happens. We can get a better idea how this crisis is presented in different parts of the world. Not only through our own often “bias” media.  Thus perhaps getting a better picture of what’s going on.
 
but...

Not that you actually cares.
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AT_Stalky

Rep: 27.4
votes: 10


PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:22 pm Post subject: Re: The Ukraine Reply with quote

Siwy899 wrote (View Post):
We all laugh that Putin should send her Russian passport and then bring troops to protect Russian minority Wink


Yeh, its absurd.

However…. I doubt the Baltic states laugh at Putins Russian passports, given there Russian populations.. And the history of the Russian and Balts..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russians_in_the_Baltic_states
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