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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:39 pm Post subject: Re: Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK Reply with quote

Used by units of the 79th Armoured Division in concert with the Churchill AVRE, and other Funnies, the Crocodile was an effective assault weapon whose threat could induce enemy troops to retreat or surrender. The Crocodile was a specialised weapon limited by the short range of its flamethrower. -wiki

Churchill Crocodile
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:46 pm Post subject: Re: Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK Reply with quote

Quote:
Used by units of the 79th Armoured Division in concert with the Churchill AVRE, and other Funnies, the Crocodile was an effective assault weapon whose threat could induce enemy troops to retreat or surrender. The Crocodile was a specialised weapon limited by the short range of its flamethrower. -wiki

yes, in comparison to a main gun or even MGs Wink.
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pt11070

Rep: 15.6
votes: 1


PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:59 pm Post subject: Re: Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK Reply with quote

Played couple online games. Other guys hosted so I ended up being Alies both times.

Pro:
Familiar outline and look of the game
Awesome explosions
Nice improvement on with strat map movement

I did get all beat up by the German side. Allied tanks lost a lot, infantry gets overrun very easy. But overall I love it. Nothing like CC.

Compared to graphics of explosions the maps seem like they need to be sharper or more detailed.

Pt
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:14 pm Post subject: Re: Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK Reply with quote

Dima wrote (View Post):
Quote:
Used by units of the 79th Armoured Division in concert with the Churchill AVRE, and other Funnies, the Crocodile was an effective assault weapon whose threat could induce enemy troops to retreat or surrender. The Crocodile was a specialised weapon limited by the short range of its flamethrower. -wiki

yes, in comparison to a main gun or even MGs Wink.



Uh huh  Exclamation  [impersonating Barney the Purple Dinosaur]

Your last statement makes no sense, because the Crocodile was ALSO equiped with a 75mm gun.

Nice try.  Razz

The flamethrower equipment was produced as a kit that REME workshops could fit in the field, converting any available Churchill Mk VII. The conversion kit consisted of the trailer, an armoured pipe fitted along the underside of the tank, and the projector, which replaced the hull mounted Besa machine gun. The Crocodile was therefore still able to function as a gun tank with its turret mounted Ordnance QF 75 mm gun. -wiki

And to use it as a flame tank, I thought the article said the Crocodile had to tow a beeg fuel trailer, so I am wondering if the in-game version does the same. Otherwise (in the game) to stop it (the Crocodile) from flaming, you have to kill the tank. Not very realistic, eh?

Maybe the Panzerfaust guys might try a shot at the trailer first, just for fun.

Churchill Crocodile
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Cathartes

Rep: 101.3
votes: 15


PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:58 pm Post subject: Re: Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK Reply with quote

might have been possible to do a trailer for graphics, but not possible to accurately model the fuel trailer in the data without major code rewrites.

Also, oddly enough, in diaries and reports, very few fuel trailers were ever destroyed or disabled by Germans--they were relatively small and heavily armored, and for some reason, did not become a specific target in and of themselves.  A lot of user reported that one of the limiting factors was running out of fuel.
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:33 am Post subject: Re: Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK Reply with quote

Cathartes wrote (View Post):
Also, oddly enough, in diaries and reports, very few fuel trailers were ever destroyed or disabled by Germans...


That's probably due to the fact that there is hardly a consensus in the on-line literature that Crocodile VII (flame varient) was even used in Overlord (Normandy).  Question This source left me with the impression that the AVREs (mine rollers) were present at Normandy but the flame varients appeared in Market Garden.

79th Armoured Division
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:03 am Post subject: Re: Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK Reply with quote

Cathartes wrote (View Post):
might have been possible to do a trailer for graphics, but not possible to accurately model the fuel trailer in the data without major code rewrites.


Why is that? Can't you just add the weight of the trailer to the weight of the tank? Or does CC not use weight? If not, can't you make the Churchill move slower because of the trailer and its fuel?  Question

400 imperial gallons (1,800 l) of fuel and the compressed nitrogen propellant, enough for eighty one-second bursts, were stored in a 6½ ton detachable armoured trailer towed by the Crocodile. The trailer, connected to the tank by a three way armoured coupling, could be jettisoned from within the tank if necessary. -wiki

So, the trailer weighs 6.5 tons and the fuel weighs 1,800 lbs.  Question That's 400 gallons of fuel. Ordinary gasoline weighs 7.29 lbs. / imperial gallon or 2916 lbs. And all of this is supported by 2 tires (of magic).

So, the Churchill IV weighs 38.5 tons, and a Mk VII fuel trailer weighs 6.5 tons and its fuel apx 1 ton...

So, 46 tons altogether.

How Much Does a Gallon of Gasoline Weigh
Churchill Crocodile
Chruchill Tank
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:04 am Post subject: Re: Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK Reply with quote

And as one might expect with a flame device, there is a multitude of reported maximum ranges from over 80 yards to 150 yards.

Churchill Crocodile Flame-Thrower
Churchill Crocodile
Flame Tank

Other sources state the Crocodiles first entered combat on June 20th. According to Nigel Duncan in 79th Armoured Division, the flamethrowers did take part in the Normandy landings but initially had little success until it was understood that the trailers should not pressure up earlier than 30 minutes prior to an attack due to the leakage that occurred under the pressurized system. -WW2HQ

Churchill Crocodile Flame-Thrower

The pressure required had to be primed on the trailer by the crew as close to use as feasible, because pressure could not be maintained for very long. The fuel was used at 4 gallons per second; refuelling took at least 90 minutes and pressurization around 15 minutes.

Churchill Crocodile

So, since it has been stated that a user could expect 80 one second bursts with the flame, perhaps a user could expect 1 eighty second burst, that utilizes all the pressure in the trailer, and results in substantially greater range than a 1 second burst.  Laughing
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:49 am Post subject: Re: Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK Reply with quote

So, the Churchill Crocodile Flame Tank enters the enchanted world of British folklore. Along side King Arthur, Merlin, Middle Earth, Narnia, Harry Potter, and the Last Dragon.

They are all good stories, but that is all they are ... stories.  Arrow


Link
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Bungarra

Rep: 127.6
votes: 5


PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:44 am Post subject: Re: Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK Reply with quote

Talk about Flamers  Rolling Eyes
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:56 am Post subject: Re: Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK Reply with quote

Bungarra wrote (View Post):
Talk about Flamers  Rolling Eyes


Why? For the most part, I am just quoting articles from the Wiki.
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Conrad

Rep: 14.8
votes: 2


PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:09 am Post subject: Re: Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK Reply with quote

Great to hear you like the game!
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:30 am Post subject: Re: Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK Reply with quote

I don't have the game, and therefore do not have an opinion about it one way or another.

And just because, I mention a few things about the Crocodile, me thinks you are grasping for sarcasm.

Provided your comment was directed toward moi.  Laughing

Regards,

Stwa
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Pzt_Kami

Rep: 44.2


PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:02 am Post subject: Re: Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK Reply with quote

As I expected You guys justified the Crocodile's unbelievable performance !

anyway the new interface (introduced) is not handdy ,Is it possible to add an option to use the old(classic) user interface?
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Conrad

Rep: 14.8
votes: 2


PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:07 am Post subject: Re: Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK Reply with quote

Stwa wrote (View Post):
I don't have the game, and therefore do not have an opinion about it one way or another.

And just because, I mention a few things about the Crocodile, me thinks you are grasping for sarcasm.

Provided your comment was directed toward moi.  Laughing

Regards,

Stwa



No I wasn't talking to you but rather the group
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Dima

Rep: 87.3
votes: 16


PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:51 am Post subject: Re: Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK Reply with quote

Pzt_Kami wrote (View Post):
As I expected You guys justified the Crocodile's unbelievable performance !

what is so unbelievable in it?
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:30 am Post subject: Re: Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK Reply with quote

Dima wrote (View Post):
Pzt_Kami wrote (View Post):
As I expected You guys justified the Crocodile's unbelievable performance !

what is so unbelievable in it?


Jeez Dima, always the troll.  Laughing

Well check this out. It looks like they are driving it around in France somewhere and decided to test it out on some messed up village.  Arrow


Link
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:40 am Post subject: Re: Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK Reply with quote

Now, ditch the overly dramatic music, and insert a few old Brit geezers to tell us the story, and a legend is born.  Arrow


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Bungarra

Rep: 127.6
votes: 5


PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:53 am Post subject: Re: Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK Reply with quote

All I can say, as we.... meaning CCS as a whole, for their were all kinds as Beta testers.... meaning... if they don't know what the community want now ....they never will.

We raised the same questions that you have now...

I have to say, Carthartes & Conrad took it all on board...

But unfortunately they had to make the best of what they had...

The Churchill Flame throwers & their  Range & survivability got more than a mention.... Mortars... well they were deadly...

But the one thing we all said was lets be able to choose our own forcepool as in CC5

My comment to them (Matrix) was being able to change your forcepools to manage the threat is what made CC5

I bought the game...

If they want the game to prosper...  

Everything that worked was CC5 ..... Yes change it to be historically accurate.. But let us have the choice of forcepools to  let the community thrive again


Last edited by Bungarra on Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:31 am Post subject: Re: Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK Reply with quote

Well, the game is not going to be made or broken on one flame tank. Actually the game looked real good in TIKs vid.

But, now I am worried if Croc flame tanks were actually used in combat at all during Epsom, or Normandy for that matter. So maybe some better articles will show up.

Some article that I cited (on page 2) mentioned one Nigel Duncan who said flame tanks landed at Normandy, but maybe he meant Mk VII Chuchills and flame tank field kits landed. Maybe they even put one or two together (the 141st RAC), and found out the pressurized trailer sucked.

Anyway, I have been able to find some more info about the 31st Armoured Tank Brigade and specifically the 141st Regiment Royal Armoured Corps, and can post it tomorrow or something.
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