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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:53 am Post subject: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Reply with quote

Hey,

You might be interested to know, that there may not be enough water in AZ or some of the surrounding states for "growth". If the drought continues, AZ may go the way of the Anastasi.

And California, Arizona, and Nevada will continue to bash each other for their share of the Colorado River water.

You can say what you like about immigration, but one thing is for certain. It is NEVER going to stop until the US gets changed out with a new entity. Like new Constitution, new states, new fed, new citizens, etc...

BTW, I was born in El Paso-Texas, my wife comes from McAllen-Texas, my mother was born in Austin-Texas, and her father immigrated to Mexico. My uncles used to speak Spanish and English, but before they died, they spoke Spanish only.

There are perhaps 1 million Mexicans that cross over every year, and this rate will be sustained until doomsday. Year after year. They will no longer stop in California and Arizona because there is no more water there. The US does not export poor people. They just put them on welfare.

Arizona has no Navy, no Air Force, no Army, no banks, and no money. If Mexico wanted to take Arizona by force (they don't need too), the US Federal government would NOT stop them.
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johnsilver

Rep: 61.3
votes: 4


PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Reply with quote

Quote:
BTW, I was born in El Paso-Texas, my wife comes from McAllen-Texas, my mother was born in Austin-Texas, and her father immigrated to Mexico. My uncles used to speak Spanish and English, but before they died, they spoke Spanish only.

There are perhaps 1 million Mexicans that cross over every year, and this rate will be sustained until doomsday. Year after year. They will no longer stop in California and Arizona because there is no more water there. The US does not export poor people. They just put them on welfare.


Hey STWA,

Thought we had this chat before, but maybe not? My wife is  1/2 Cherokee and her dad was a true, dye in the wool believer in everything to them. I used to listen to all of his stories when he was alive. Customs, the beliefs, just about everything.

Every state has the power to mobilize it's National Guard. Laws changed over enforcement also of the border, it's just an issue of will. Border states, the one who have to suffer the consequences of being overun are the ones who need to bundle together. It is comical in a way to see states like California having to suffer for a change, one of the states that always proclaims everything liberal.. Open border this, open border that getting dumped with load after load of the latest illegals and now having protesters trying to block them. It's funny when the shoe is on the other foot on horrid issues like this.

California and Northeast states should be the target states for all these latest illegals until tough immigration laws can be enacted. I'd 100% guarantee the border is tightened then.

Not so sure that just immediate water shortage will do the trick STWA. I've been reading about the terrible water shortage yourself and the west is suffering also and that new "straw" they are digging out to feed people. Desalination, an expensive, but developing way to quench people's thirst is probably going to be the only way to get it done and have myself thought of as another way to cease and desist the army of illegals entering, a tactic. Israel uses desalination for it's people, without it? They would perish. Leaders in the world in that field and a technology that they could help the US in.
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:49 pm Post subject: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Reply with quote

Yes, I remember our chat back in the Ukraine thread. I suggested Salt River Res by Talking Stick. I still live near there, and I purchased the house we had been renting. It is shown on the map I uploaded back then. Me thinks prop values will go down over time here, if water dries up. So, the Anglos can flee to where ... Nebraska?  Laughing

I had a roofing contracter out just last week, and he did not speak English, but we figured it all out anyway.  He understood how to rip me off, without having to even communicate in my own language.  Laughing

So ... the National Guard. They mostly got taken away for the war in Iraq. And what is Texas paying for 1,000 soldiers? 12 million dollars a month. Maybe you and I don't understand Anglos. The states will fleece their own citizens to pay for "the Guard" who will never "Guard" a damn thing, much less the border.  Now that sounds like the America I know.

And what will the "Guard" do on the border. Play with their drones? The kids coming from Central America are turning themselves in to the first Authorities they encounter. So the "Guard" will jump up and down and go "BOO!". What, they are gonna shoot em? Are you crazy? They are not gonna shoot anybody.

The Border Patrol runs uncontitutional checkpoints now. They are there to catch the more stoopid drug dealers. They have nothing to do with border security. It is a big cash cow for the feds.
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johnsilver

Rep: 61.3
votes: 4


PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:41 pm Post subject: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Reply with quote

Quote:
And what will the "Guard" do on the border. Play with their drones? The kids coming from Central America are turning themselves in to the first Authorities they encounter. So the "Guard" will jump up and down and go "BOO!". What, they are gonna shoot em? Are you crazy? They are not gonna shoot anybody.

The Border Patrol runs uncontitutional checkpoints now. They are there to catch the more stoopid drug dealers. They have nothing to do with border security. It is a big cash cow for the feds.


Think I've dragged this one too far off topic and killed our conversation here on the "Russia" topic STWA, though remember I mentioned all the "volunteer" deputeess Aparo has several posts back for guarding his county, who could be mobilized (others of course) along the border, given full power to use force and Aparo's tent city style detention city used to hold all immigrants in.

It might be a solution for states where illegals enter to be held there, under there authority. What it would do short term is force them to enter states with lax (liberal) detention and entry procedures, but after they began to get over ran, such as California is now? They themselves would tighten up border and I imagine even make some other standards a little less 'comfy". like living standards, forcing them to live in tents, like Aparo does some of his minimum security prisoners in old army tents.

It's no different than what the US did with it's "wet foot-dry foot" policy. When boat people refugee immigrants were picked up attempting to get to Florida illegally, they lived in open air tents and many were denied entry every year. It's not like there isn't some sort of policy already on the books for this that can be altered to deny entry.

All that is needed is the will.
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Reply with quote

But, I don't want anyone to use force on these people, and I believe no one will either. They are going to keep coming across for years to come, and that is just the way it is. Over time, maybe the US will be a Latin country, and everthing will be flipped to Spanish. Alot of the Latino politicians are excited about this prospect.

Nice talking to you though. See ya around.
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dj

Rep: 157.1
votes: 9


PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:56 pm Post subject: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Reply with quote

johnsilver wrote (View Post):
DJ, You are playing with an empty hand and using a terrible bluff there with your Shah play there dude...

Carter himself weakened the Shah. refused to come to his aide. He was all for his the "spiritualists" and the fall of the Shah. I know what was going on there, or fairly well and am fairly well in tune with the debacle he caused with his self inflicted hostage situation.. I was in the USN at the time, a Radioman on board the USS Engage (MSO 433). at that time, it was fairly simple to see incoming from many ships, bases, coms not even those not intended. some of us did while on duty over the teletype.


Straight from the Sean Hannity script.  So that's great you served in Navy during that era...does that make you an expert on the policy though?  Do you not remember WE were the ones the propped-up the Shah as a puppet leader?  And actually it was recently confirmed what was suspected all along that America and England actually planted the Shah in the first place.  There was a popularly elected Socialist whom was elected.  Then we along with the British staged a Coup to overthrow him and that 's how the Shah rose to power.  Of course they would NEVER dare say that in the Conservative media would they.  

As far as your accusations re: my comments on Dick Cheney and Iraq...yet again another predictable comment that oh....you must be a socialist to spread the wealth to make such a comment.  Incredibly ignorant statement - it was to punish Cheney and his entire estate because he personally is the one that advocated fraudulent case for war with Iraq.  By the way, he did this immediately after taking office, long before the 9/11 attacks.  There again they would never dare say that with Roger Ailes editing all the FoxNews coverage.  Nixon would be proud of him.
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johnsilver

Rep: 61.3
votes: 4


PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:18 am Post subject: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Reply with quote

Quote:
Straight from the Sean Hannity script.  So that's great you served in Navy during that era...does that make you an expert on the policy though


You don't get it and never will get it about Carter and his entire middle east caused fiasco that the entire world is still paying for do you DJ? How can liberals cover their eyes, so willfully to blind ignorance so many years later and even worse, some even blame it on others?

My post was a clue that was reading incoming teletypes on messages coming in and out of ships and bases. I even posted it wasn't hard back then, which it was not. When ships were in port (ours was most of the time) we used teletypes for communication messages all the time. Incoming messages we were supposed to ignore if not addressed to your specific ship, group, but during that time, or later on during Reagan's hammering of Libya (on another ship then) I know of several RM's who would would check messages for any bit of information.

That doesn't mean security wasn't tight, it was for making sure nothing was to be allowed OUT of the radio shack, a digital wristwatch worn (which could actually be used to broadcast small distances they told us, say to the dock). But will say we read messages with more information regarding the middle east than I remembered reading about.

Only when the actual coms officer had to bring in his cyper card and do a manual cyper was something really important coming in for us and those were few and far between. We would see important information come in classified as *TS* still that didn't require using the Cypher. 35+ years ago, but still.

Just blindly throwing "hannity" and "fox news" at others you disagree with got old months ago DJ. Facts and my USN background of that period are my reply.
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pvt_Grunt

Rep: 98.5
votes: 5


PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:28 pm Post subject: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Reply with quote

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):
Russia - Whats goin on..

Whats going on in Russia, and why is all this happening now?


Hey American brothers, this is the topic.

I do understand that rule #1 of forums is to ALWAYS see EVERY world topic EXCLUSIVELY through the lens of domestic US politics, but this has gone on too long.

It is like listening to a Serbian and a Croatian argue about who has the right to have the least number of vowels in their name.

You guys all look the same to us, you sound the same to us, you all have the same politics give or take a few details. AZ, NH, VI, FL - they're all the same to us (except Oregon, they really ARE different)

STALKY -  bring us back to Russia.  Twisted Evil  Twisted Evil  Twisted Evil  Twisted Evil
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:36 pm Post subject: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Reply with quote

Hey Grunt, feel free to jump in any time. Posting that the thread is off topic (at least the way you did it) ... is also off topic, right?  Wink

Now any conversation on forum is essentially just like a conversation in the break area of your work. Your discussions naturally flow into other topics. -mooxe

The following countries were mentioned on the first page of the thread alone (not counting any country mentioned in a linked article).  Arrow

Russia, Ukraine, United States, Great Britain, China, Iceland, Faroe Islands, Nambia, Guinea, Crimea (once a country), Sweden, Pakistan, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Turkey, Georgia, Bulgaria, India, Belarus, Poland, Lithuania, Indonesia, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbecistan, Latvia, Cuba, Moldavia, Azerbaijan, Morocco, Philippines, Fiji, Egypt, Algeria, Iran, Albania, Lebanon, Armenia, Georgia, Jordan, Sri Lanka, Syria, and Vietnam.  

Now, thanks to your post, I can add Serbia and Croatia to the list, although they weren't really mentioned on page 1.  Sad
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mooxe

Rep: 221.1
votes: 25


PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:07 pm Post subject: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Reply with quote

I may not be from France, Luxembourg, Texas or Australia but that doesn't stop me from exercising moderation akin to the likes of North Korea or Myanmar. Now when a topic of this subject is created and subsequently combined with our regular posters I am inclined to think that it will derail eventually. We have had many real train derailments in Canada recently, but that's another subject. Lets not Bangladesh this thread anymore, this thread israel conversation and should be taken syrias.
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johnsilver

Rep: 61.3
votes: 4


PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:24 pm Post subject: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Reply with quote

Thanks Mooxe. Onward to Moscow it is.
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jakebullet70

Rep: 39.3
votes: 1


PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:20 pm Post subject: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Reply with quote

Dima wrote (View Post):
dj wrote (View Post):
 If Mitt Romney or Sarah Palin were President they would have Nuked Russia by now..

haha, really? they hate the US population so much?

btw check the German "Iron Sky" movie where Sarah Palin is shown Wink


Great movie!!!
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:42 am Post subject: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Reply with quote

I may not be from France, Luxembourg, Texas or Australia but that doesn't stop me from exercising moderation akin to the likes of North Korea or Myanmar. Now when a topic of this subject is created and subsequently combined with our regular posters I am inclined to think that it will derail eventually. We have had many real train derailments in Canada recently, but that's another subject. Lets not Bangladesh this thread anymore, this thread israel conversation and should be taken syrias. -mooxe

Translation: We are going to use this thread to relentlessly bash Russia with NATO propaganda or we are not going to use this thread at all.

On page 1 and 2 of the thread, the Original Poster attempted to offer various statistics, charts, and maps to discredit Russia and its people. It seemed to me that some of the "statisitcs" used small windows of time from which to draw its observable events, perhaps a single year or decade?

Most of these "stats" cited published reports measureing "Life Expectancy" and "Quality of Life". Trend analysis was offered again over small periods of time, while the poster cherry picked the start and end times of the sample of events, in order to produce the statistic that was more favoralbe to his argument. Stock market analysts use this kind of pure BS to get you to buy stocks all the time.

And what was the argument: RUSSIA SUCKS. That was the argument. Not very REAL and not very SERIOUS either.

I would like to offer the follwoing video, that illustrates "Life Expectancy" and "Average Personal Income" (Quality of Life?) over the last 200 years for 200 countries. I think forumites will get a better perspective, and then they can return to bashing Russia with NATO propaganda if they so choose.  Arrow


Link
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johnsilver

Rep: 61.3
votes: 4


PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:29 am Post subject: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Reply with quote

Quote:
Translation: We are going to use this thread to relentlessly bash Russia with NATO propaganda or we are not going to use this thread at all.


What?!? Some dude on TV here has been giving speech after speech the last 6y that the cold war is over and there is nothing to Putin having any Imperialistic thoughts of a new Russian empire!

Are you saying that he's wrong and we should be worried??
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:08 am Post subject: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Reply with quote

johnsilver wrote (View Post):
What?!? Some dude on TV here has been giving speech after speech the last 6y that the cold war is over and there is nothing to Putin having any Imperialistic thoughts of a new Russian empire! Are you saying that he's wrong and we should be worried?


No. I was attempting to translate the latest message from the collective CCS "think" tank. One of the hobbies of the tank is bashing various countries when they feel the urge. This month it is Russia.

The Russian economy ranks as the ninth largest by nominal GDP and sixth largest by purchasing power parity in 2014. Russia's extensive mineral and energy resources, the largest reserves in the world, have made it one of the largest producers of oil and natural gas globally. The country is one of the five recognized nuclear weapons states and possesses the largest stockpile of weapons of mass destruction. Russia is a great power and a permanent member of the United Nations Security Council, a member of the G20, the Council of Europe, the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation, the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation, the Eurasian Economic Community, the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), and the World Trade Organisation (WTO) and the leading member of the Commonwealth of Independent States. -wiki

Russia


Last edited by Stwa on Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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pvt_Grunt

Rep: 98.5
votes: 5


PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:29 am Post subject: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Reply with quote

I am interested in history, not all topics, but in general European history especially post Roman to rennaisance periods. I have visited Europe twice (Scotland, Austria, Czech republic, France) but I am by no means an expert.
I am, however, a forum poster which means I can espouse many great theories from the comfort of my living room in Frankston (JFGI - Just F-in Google It)

Over the years my interests have changed and morphed, from WW2 (particularly West front 1944) to Saxon era Britain to the role of Tancred in the capture of Antioch in the first crusade.

What has never until now captured my nerdy interest is neither China or Russia. Which is a shame because both are rich in history. I never understood why people were always wishing for a new Eastern front CC.

What HAS grabbed my interest in the last few months is the situation in eastern Ukraine. I have been reading a lot and it has all the makings of a great historic conflict.

First, news IS history, it's just not in library books yet. News is history written BEFORE the winner gets to edit it. Unless you are an Arabic scholar, everything you read about the crusades come from Latin Christian sources.

Second, this is a classic East vs West struggle. Just like Constantinople and Yugoslavia, Ukraine is on the rubbery border of East/West, Latin/Orthodox, NATO/USSR, (almost Muslim/Christian) influence. In this case Ukraine "wants" to join NATO, but Russia sees it as in it's natural sphere of influence. I put "want" in quotes as not ALL Ukrainians want this.

Third, history plays a large part in this struggle. Paranoia about Nazi resurgence, end of era (cold war) empire collapse (think of Pallestine and Iraq being formed by Britain and UN)  pining for the "good old days" of communism where the Kremlin was KING.

So - my point is.....I am interested in lots of views on the conflict, not just "NATO propaganda", not just Kremlin revisionism, not just Guardian or Fox news opinions dreassed up as fact. But this takes time and a critical eye to wade through the internets. And not reading Russian is a big disadvantage here, as it is the language of the internet and social media here.

This conflict will play out as all modern conflicts do, in the public eye. It is no longer enough to defeat the enemy on the battlefield like Rommel in Libya, but it must be done in the "media" as well. Repoters are obselete (sadly) as everyone with a smartphone is now a reporter. Can you imagine Omaha beach invasion in 2014? 2 guys with Garrands, 1 with a BAR and 17 with a YOUTUBE INSTAGRAM TWATTER feed that needs feeding!

Also, refer my previous rant (which I quite enjoyed - thank you very much  Surprised ) the United States has quite a bit to do with this conflict, as does NATO, but NOT, repeat NOT Obama, or Bush or Palin or any other of those noisy political egos that seem to think they are worldly important.

I havent heard from our mate Vlad this week ( or any other week actually  Embarassed ) but I dont believe Putin actually cares who is in the White House on any given day. He believes that Ukraine is HIS sphere of influence and neither Omaba, Bush, Kerry, Romney is going to stop him. SO, forget about the domestic US politics, because you are all the same to every one outside of the US! This is a point I firmly believe many Americans dont get so I'll say it again - You are all the same to every one outside of the US!. Your internal bickering about Tea parties, liberals etc is real, but unimportant. Just like me complaining about Tony Abott's $7 Medicare surcharge, while critically imporatant to my wifes 89 year old Nan, is ABSOLUTELY MEANINGLESS to KG Werfer and his life and health care....

Summary - I am a amateur historian, and news is simply history in the making, and I am listening to ALL different viewpoints, from DIMA to jakebullet70 but I will make up my own mind in the long run. Read everthing, believe nothing is the slogan for the internet age.

Meanwhile I will go back to the wonderfull and ridiculous world of reality - Ukrainian Nazi's, Russian missiles, NATO spies, drunken separatists and dodgy photoshopped satelitte photos released by "news" sites with no satelite access. SO much fun!

Feel free to comment.............................
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pvt_Grunt

Rep: 98.5
votes: 5


PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:46 am Post subject: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Reply with quote

Stwa wrote (View Post):
Hey Grunt, feel free to jump in any time. Posting that the thread is off topic (at least the way you did it) ... is also off topic, right?  Wink

Now any conversation on forum is essentially just like a conversation in the break area of your work. Your discussions naturally flow into other topics. -mooxe



Good point my YOUTUBE quoting friend...

A thread by it's nature is organic and weaves it's way through an argument, discussion, or topic as it ages.

BUT in this case we must defer to ILL DUCE - MOOXEILLINI and draw a line, perhaps create a spin-off thread or simply consign it to, my favorite, the TRAINWRECKS. Of which I believe you are most familiar with ........
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johnsilver

Rep: 61.3
votes: 4


PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 1:05 pm Post subject: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Reply with quote

Quote:
I dont believe Putin actually cares who is in the White House on any given day. He believes that Ukraine is HIS sphere of influence and neither Omaba, Bush, Kerry, Romney is going to stop him. SO, forget about the domestic US politics


You make good points there Grunt and I can agree with a bunch of them, more than bait good 'ole DJ into one of his liberal, meaningless blab fests.

Russia.. To me as well as I see it is one of the richest (raw wise) countries in the world. They have nearly every mineral deposit in the world available to them and not afraid of any silly restriction to go about going to get at them. The banking system could be a weakness, or finance as close to government control as it is. A relic of Soviet days.

China is approaching this eminence. Oil might have been the issue, tho they have seemingly fixed this annexing huge areas in the South China Sea.

Back to Russia.. If my memory serves me correctly.. The US has enough Anthracite (white coal) to power the US for 200+ years, not even counting black, or dirty coal, yet the country is treating coal like it's a nasty thing. Russia is the ONLY continent in the world that has more coal than us. THAT is a major factor for an abundant energy supply. Tie that together with massive amounts of natural gas and oil? Russia is indeed a resource rich land.

Most any country would give their eye teeth to have the coal reserves of either the US, or Russia and use them.
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Stwa

Rep: 308.9
votes: 16


PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 1:57 pm Post subject: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Reply with quote

From the end of WW2 in 1945 up to 1960, is 15 years. In year 1960 Germany had a life expectancy of 69,5 years. This made Germany rank at the top in the world, at place 18. Today , Putins has been in power for 15 years and Russia has a life expectancy of 69 years. This makes Russia rank 124 in the world among the worst preforming countries... After 15 years... So if we compare: in the year 1960 Germany = 69,5 thus outperformed Supa KaPutins Russias in 2012 at 69 years. -Original Poster

Grunt - I like history as well.  Arrow

So, the Original Poster, back on page 2, wanted to make the point that Germany achieved a life expectancy rate of 69.5 years presumably without assistance. Of course, he totally ignored the Marhsall Plan 1948-1952 and the subsidiary plans that followed unitl 1957. Which is not being serious, and outright deceiptful.

The effect of this post WW2 assistance to Western Europe is well documented, and contributed to the recovery of Western European nations, to their morale, quality of life, and life expectancy. Notice in the last video, Hans Rosling stopped the presentation at 1948, the year the Marshall Plan took effect, so from that year forward, the progress (on his graph) could be noticed.

So, I posted a video of the 60th Aniversary of the Marshall Plan, but mooxe put it into Train Wrecks. So for those of you interested you can find it there. But now, here is a video of the 50th Aniversary of the Marshall Plan. Both videos make the point that without the Marshall Plan there may not have been NATO.

Also, at 11:10, there is a nice message for Obama. So check it out.

Again, notice the Original Poster always refers to Putin as KAPUTIN. Just comedy, but NOT SERIOUS nevertheless.


Link
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Tippi-Simo

Rep: 53.1
votes: 5


PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:18 am Post subject: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Reply with quote

These sanctions between Russia vs Others will create a bigger black market in Rodina than there already is..

One guy (Russian) was already caught by Russian border guards trying to smuggle 70kg of liver pate..
http://www.iltalehti.fi/uutiset/2014081318570161_uu.shtml

As predicted.. http://barentsobserver.com/en/business/2014/08/predicting-cross-border-shopping-boom-12-08
 
But also at the same time.. http://barentsobserver.com/en/business/2014/08/russia-orders-three-icebreakers-helsinki-shipyard-11-08
 
My opinion is that the average loser is a regular Russian citizen. At this moment it is allowed to import Russia 50kg of goods each person. Mostly this stuff is clothes, tires and spare parts.
http://www.iltalehti.fi/uutiset/2014081418572481_uu.shtml


"Du talar dalig svenska, men du är bra i sängen"
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