[crewman]

64. Thaon June 9, 15:00 turn 8: Position 1, M-10 17 pdr hits Panther at position 2 in head on duel ... after several shots, M-10 brews up. A second Panther there puts fire into 6 pdr at position 3, but is awkward shot and 6 pdr unable to acquire line of sight to fire back ... over time crew is suppressed and abandons.

Allied infantry at Area 4 have excellent positions to hold back German infantry while at same time remain out of reach for enemy tanks. This prompts Panther to move to position 7, where it is knocked out by direct side shot from FF and Cromwell waiting behind hedge at 5.
Area 8 and 9 infantry exchange fire from buildings with occasional tank support.
Infantry at 5, 6, 4, and cross fire Vickers allow Allies to keep area 5 VL ... but Germans refrain from aggressive offensive using multiple Panthers.

[crewman]

65. Hermanville June 9, 15:00 turn 8:  Sherman behind building at position 2 accompanied by infantry. Panther at 8 and infantry in buildings fire at area 2 infantry.
Sherman from east moves to area 4 and gets side shot on Panther, but doesn't do damage ... Panther returns fire and Sherman goes up in smoke. Fire Fly at position 3 moves and gets line of sight, but fails to destroy. Sherman from behind building at 2, moves to get side shot but won't fire at Panther and is knocked out. Fire Fly is destroyed out also.

Simultaneously,  two infantry teams emerge from crawling in field at position 5 and assault into building 6 ... taking most of building. But with Allied tank support destroyed at area 2, infantry are overrun from assaulting German units.

An M-10 and Sherman at 7 and 9 cover road to west, but Panther moving towards head on from position 8 knocks out both while taking rounds. This initiates further offensive action from a Panther and infantry at area 10. Allies are crushed under the tidal wave of firepower ... resulting in all VLs being overrun and captured.

Both Allied BG's disband ... leaving a huge gap in the front line.

[crewman]

Note:
The above Hermanville battle reveals a significant problem for the Grand Campaign, in my opinion.
LSA has a defect (bug) that prevents disbanded BG's from recycling back to the Strategic map ... therefore the two Allied BG's at Hermanville are gone.

The Panther BG's in 7.3 were changed from having both vehicle and support columns ... to just a support column. Therefore, they are limited to a maximum of five Panthers in their active rosters. Even so, I believe a skillful and aggressive player in command of German Panther BG's will be able to disband any Allied BG's they face ... within two or three battles, maybe just one.

I'm ok with that, since that is a lot of firepower. But if Allied BG's can't recycle back after being disbanded ... then a player commanding the German side can keep moving ahead and disband Allied BG's without concern of taking heavy losses, since the cost benefit for doing so is to German advantage. Also, there is far less concern about being cut off during this type of strategy.

And if you have morale on (which allows disbanded BG's to retreat) ... the Allied player will be hard pressed to make any significant gains before morale failure causing loss of ground.

I'm very content with LSA GJS 7.3 gameplay, but without the recycle bug fixed ... I feel the Grand Campaign is lacking competitive longevity.

[stiener]

I agree with crewman on some of his points. the disband bug is a major issue and should be fixed IMO by matrix.
that being said....so far im liking our changes to GJS. the 17 pdr and allied inf are more effective. makes the game more balanced IMO. this also helps enormously in fighting the panthers. the panthers can be knocked out, but the allies still need to be resourcefull in how they combat the cats. the panthers are still a powerful tank but the germans must now also be carefull with them as they are not the juggernaut they used to be per say.

as one can see above a bit of luck and maybe player skill and the german can still have big things happen with the cats, BUT, IMO I had more than my share of luck in that battle and CC is CC in its calculations etc. if that Sherman had of got its kill with the side shot or the FF got another cat, things would have gone a lot differently. crewmans style of playing works against him sometimes... in he is VERY aggressive and doesn't back off. IMO if he had of fallen back and defended in the last part of that battle he may have not been destroyed. his style of fighting is very tough to fight against and as a german he will be hard to stop. the german tho has to watch his inf and tank numbers as he doesn't get reinforcements like the allies. this could again hamper any prolonged german aggressive style.
again this GC is a drawn out GC the germans will run out of equip sooner or later and have to fall back. this has always been the deal with GJS. ..the allies must fight a battle of attrition once there inland.
with crewmans fighting style he is taking a heavy toll on german inf and tanks right now in this GC, and its still way early in this GC...things will be tougher for the germans soon I think.

im still in favour and like better playing LSA GJS with morale on. IMO the allies can still make good progress inland, they just need to watch how they play the beach maps....change up the strategy. the allies must get 1 VL off the beaches... so they can move thru..... before the german morale drops and the battle ends. if enough VL's are taken when the german morale drops then the allies win the map any ways.

with moral ON we don't have to worry about this disband stuff...unless ur surrounds or have no friendly map to retreat to...and I like playing with it on. the game changes a little with morale off and if matrix would fix the bug we would have some choices in how we want to play the game.

if we play with morale OFF as we are now, I would be careful stacking allied BG's when fighting the german big guns as u could lose 2 BG's instead of 1 if things go bad.

im liking fighting Herr Crewman and am enjoying this GC...even with the disband bug. ;-(
its still early in the fighting so time will tell.

[mooxe]

Hmm interesting. I never considered the possibility of a stacked BG both being disbanded....

[crewman]

got clobbered and lost a couple of BG's, otherwise it was a very exciting and tense battle ... lol

[crewman]

Regarding above mentioned disband of two Allied BG's ...

Last battle saved with new name, and used it single player to progress through several battles and then to next turn ... in order to see if units from these disbanded BG's get absorbed into other Allied BG's.

From what I can see, it seems all remaining units from both BG's, and including future reinforcements ... where absorbed into one BG.
End result is similar to merging three BG's into one.

Below are before and after screenshots of the BG receiving units from the disbanded BG's.

Steiner and I agreed to share info about how the game works under certain unknown conditions such as this. Therefore, I will post the BG Force Pool screenshots ... but without the BG ID, so as to protect strategic info.

[mooxe]

Thats a massive unit. 123 Bren Groups, 97 Rifle Groups.

Looks like the disband may be working properly but not working as intended.

[crewman]

haha, yes massive ... basically three BG's in one.
Lots of depth in terms of longevity, but still similar to other BG's in what it can field.

Seems like an ok penalty for being disbanded ... units are absorbed into another BG, but you lose capability on the Strategic map by having less BG's available.

And since the Recycle option is broken and unusable ... this is a welcome feature. It wouldn't be desirable to have all units disappear from a disbanded BG.

Also, the location of where the disbanded BGs' units landed seems kind of random, or unexpected anyway. More on that later ... Allies need to keep any usable info out of enemy hands.

Thankfully the Grand Campaign remains playable ... knowing there is a method units return to the battle field after a BG disbands.

[crewman]

note: word "position" shortened to p ... example: p4 is short for position 4

66. Lingevers June 9, 15:00 turn 8: Allied Flame tank and infantry team concealed behind house at p1, and Sherman behind hedge with several infantry teams at area 2.
Bren team at p3 takes bullets from western hedges, and returns fire. Infantry at area 8 moves west, but pinned by MG 42 from far west tall building ... and retreats back to hedge. Sherman moves to support, gets tracked on tree.

Infantry from p1 and p2 move west towards p4 ... Pz IV moves into hedge at p5 to engage. Fire Fly at p3 hits p5 Pz IV and knocks it out first shot.

German infantry advance to p6 and takes fire from Vickers in building at area 2 ... cutting down infantry and forcing them back.

Flame tank moves further west to hedge near p4 and heats up MG 42 team, while Pz IV on road north west of p4. p2 Sherman and infantry advance west towards p7 as time runs out.

Allies gain some ground, but Germans keep tough defense with ambush and cross fire positions.

[crewman]

67. Ranville June 9, 15:00 turn 8: Allies place smoke at area 3 and send two lights tanks west from p2 and then south towards p3. Three infantry teams from p1 assault south towards p3 VL behind light tanks.
First light tank moves into hedge and captures VL, but MG 42's tear up two infantry teams in open but in smoke, third team retreats to p1.
Light tank exchanges fire with ATG Half Track from p6, but is knocked out after several shots. Second light tank takes cover behind knocked out tank at VL hedge, and sees Pz IV moving directly in front with infantry close by. Germans recapture VL and Pz IV moves back.
PzFaust shot misses but German infantry encircle light tank while under fire from Vickers and other Allied small arms fire.
Near end of battle, AB tank is destroyed as AB infantry scramble to capture MG pit east of p4, along with third AB tank ending up beside building at p4.

Steady small arms fire between area 5 and 7, and German HT destroyed at p7 by 6pdr at area 5.

[crewman]

68. Magny June 9, 15:00 turn 8: Allies move out of defensive position at Creully to engage last remaining Static BG, that was bypassed during initial push inland.
Steiner suggested to not play cat and mouse, and instead deployed units for more direct combat, which resulted in less time used to produce the anticipated outcome.
Allies clear Magny.

[crewman]

Campaign debrief after June 9, 1500 battles

[stiener]

clicked the wrong link on my e mail alert to these posts. so this is to get me re notifed. ;-)

Good GC so far. im enjoying crossing swords with Crewman. its a hard fight. not sure how long the germans can keep this pressure up on the line were fighting on. Crewman is taking his toll on my inf and tanks with some brutal meat grinding fights.

[crewman]

June 10, 0700 strategic moves:

Germans break through Allied lines!

The disbandment of two Allied BG's at Hermanville left a hole in the line, which the Germans have exploited ... moving into Tailleville.
Allies cleared Magny of Static units, but quickly move a BG back into Creully after Germans captured the Creully VL at Bayeux previous battle. As expected Germans move into Creully ... resulting in lots of neutral deployment and a race to defend further break throughs and supply cuts to other BG's.

Allies advance into Tilly through Bayeux.

[crewman]

First battle after the above mentioned move turn ... Bayeux
The attached image shows the deployment areas for each side as well as neutral, all resulting from different moves.

Previous battle Allies captured the Tilly VL at p1 and then sent a BG to Tilly during this move turn. Germans swap BG's between Tilly and Bayeux. The game allowed both Allied and German BG's to pass each other on same road.

Besides that, you can see when a German BG moves in from Tilly it removes any Allied gains of last battle between areas 1 and 2, and also turns Allied ground near areas 3 and 4 into neutral ground. As a result, Allies have to fight to gain back that ground each time Germans swap BG's from Tilly and Bayeux.
Now the Allies have a BG in Tilly this will not occur, but the VL needs to be recaptured to get supply through. This strategy comes with risk.

Also notice the Allies moved in a BG from Magny at p5, and gained ground around area 6 and 7.
And both Allies and Germans had a second BG on Bayeux that remained stationary while the other moves took place.

[crewman]

69. Bayeux June 10, 07:00 turn 9: Allies move infantry from p1 to areas 2 and 3. And Sherman from p5 to area 2 crossroad. infantry at p2 move to area 3 and engage enemy troops in building. As well, at area 4 Allies find infantry to fight.

Area 11 buildings have a large German infantry presence firing into buildings across the street, and Half Track supporting. Allied infantry and Vickers and p8 and p9 fire back with support of M-10 on road between buildings.
Allies call artillery to area 11, knock out HT and big damage to infantry ... which quiets the attack.
Germans counter with artillery sent to area 4, destroying an infantry team and half a Cmd team.

Allied soldiers assault through area 3 and briefly capture p7 VL with support of Sherman at p6. German tank at area 7 and supporting infantry move in to recapture the VL and hold.

Second Sherman from p5 moves to p10 and escapes a missed shot from a Pz IV behind gap in buildings. AT infantry destroy Sherman at p10.
Allies attempt recapture of p7 Tilly VL, but two infantry teams cut down and Sherman lost at area 7.
Germans regain area 4 VL as they pass through gap in Allied line.

[crewman]

70. Creully June 10, 07:00 turn 9: Germans break through Allied lines at Bayeux into Creully and arrive at area 6 ... Allies bring a BG in from Thaon to defend at south west corner. The remaining VLs are neutral.

Opposing infantry teams exchange fire at p1 and p2. An Allied patrol finds German soldiers at p4, which prompts a second Rifle team and Cmd team from p3 to assault p4.
German team is eventually destroyed in brutal hand to hand combat, and infantry at p1 and p2 continue sporadic arms length fire. Both sides take losses.

Two M-10's alongside building at p5 have line of sight north up road to p6 and wait for any German armor to appear. A 15 cm Grille is slightly off target, but sends HE crashing into building a p5.
Infantry at p7 move out to p8, p11, and p13. Arriving at p8, soldiers take fire from soldiers in p12 building and spot a StuG at p9.
An M-10 from p5 moves north out of cover and is knocked out by PzSchreck further north. Meanwhile, StuG unleashes fire on p8 infantry ... so M-10 moves from south west corner to area 3 road and drives fast across road to p10 while under fire, but shot misses. StuG turns to engage M-10, while p8 soldiers rush across road and kill PzSchreck team in hedge. Simultaneously, Piat Group moves from p11 to p12 to join Cmd team. StuG knocks out M-10, but shortly after Piat pierces StuG's armor, and destroys.
Piat group and Cmd team advance into p9 buildings, while p13 soldiers send fire across road into building. p6 Grille moves into line of sight of waiting M-10 and is destroyed.

Allies defend against further penetration to other maps as well as keep supply routes active ... and have good positions from which to defend next battle.
German BG has its supply cut at Bayeux.

[crewman]

71. Tailleville June 10, 07:00 turn 9: Germans broke through lines at Hermanville and enter map at area 3. Allied BG rushes to defend, enters at area 2 ... rest of map neutral.

German BG has total of four Panthers, and combined can crush an Allied attack. But, Allied ambushes of ATG's and Piats can knock them out ... so no doubt Germans will proceed with caution and with infantry support.

Allied infantry outnumber opposing teams at p1, and German armor can't support fighting occurring behind large hedges and within a treed field. Fighting continues throughout battle, but neither side gains ground. Also, an Armored car at p2 is knocked out by Panther in p3 field.

Other Allied infantry progress to areas 4 and 5, but get pinned by MG 42's and small arms fire across road and from area 10 buildings. Cmd team and Piat captrure p7 VL and move to p9, while Grille and Panther advance to p6. Piat is cut down while crossing field by distant MG 42.

Panther and Grille pound p5 buildings, but don't risk further movement into Allied territory. Allied patrol captures P8 VL and engages infantry in north building.
Both sides have capable ground for staging attacks next battle. German BG is in supply and has huge firepower potential with big Cats ...

[crewman]

72. Bieville June 10, 07:00 turn 9: Fighting on this map seems to portray the tough stalemate type engagements commonly referred to in historical accounts of Normandy battles.
Buildings at area 1 have changed hands several times, and remain extremely difficult for Allies to maintain and/or advance from ... due to the advantageous defensive positions at area 4, combined with the numerous armor and ATG's this German BG is able to field. As well, the large open field west of position p3 makes it difficult to capture and hold any ground at the west side.

Allies again attempt to gain ground. But like other battles here, it is sure to be intense and costly for both sides ... although, Allies have the larger proportion of losses and its Force Pool being used up more quickly.

Germans immediately hit p3 Vickers with MG 42 fire from p2 building, killing a team member and force retreat to behind building. Several teams advance towards p4 VL in p1 buildings, but advance stalls under intense fire from area 4 infantry and Pz IV at p2. Cmd Sherman is able to move between small gap in buildings of area 1, and emerge to knock out Pz IV.
Another Pz IV at p4 intersection moves across road, but quickly backs to cover when seeing Fire Fly moving to fire from p6.

Tough fighting erupts as both sides send infantry into p5 building, resulting in losses and virtual stalemate. Allied infantry probe to p7 and come under fire during end of battle. Also ... German team sneaking up to p3 VL is destroyed by remaining Vickers and Bren team defending there.