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 Author
Message
 

Would you like to play CC2 with "modern" graphics?
Yes, that would be cool
80%
 80%  [ 12 ]
I am quite happy with the old ones, but would test the update if there was one
20%
 20%  [ 3 ]
No, I would like things to stay the way they are
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 15

ScnelleMeyer

Rep: 73.5
votes: 7


PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 3:00 pm Post subject: Improved graphics for CC2? Reply with quote

I made a quick check to see how CC2 would render explosion graphics from newer games and it seems to work out.

Maybe there is a possibility to make some porting work of newer graphics to CC2 ?
Would there be any interest for a CC2 upgrade like this or are people happy with the way things have been since 1997?
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DaveySmith1

Rep: 2.6


PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 7:08 pm Post subject: Re: Improved graphics for CC2? Reply with quote

You mean just explosions/tanks and sprites etc or the maps too? Personally I think the cc2 maps look nice. I like how they were nice and colourful compared to say cc4 and 5 which were a bit dull in comparison. Same way I think PITF looks better than GWTC. But is a more personal thing I guess. Maybe if it had PITF colour scheme then I wouldn't mind. Very Happy
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ScnelleMeyer

Rep: 73.5
votes: 7


PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 7:41 pm Post subject: Re: Improved graphics for CC2? Reply with quote

I am thinking about explosions, smoke and flame effects, not the maps.

This is from one of the first tests and it shows what I am talking about:



CC2 Expl 1.1.png
 Description:
 Filesize:  881.25 KB
 Viewed:  9223 Time(s)

CC2 Expl 1.1.png



CC2 Expl 1.2.png
 Description:
 Filesize:  881.95 KB
 Viewed:  9223 Time(s)

CC2 Expl 1.2.png


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Pzt_Kanov

Rep: 29.5
votes: 9


PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:06 pm Post subject: Re: Improved graphics for CC2? Reply with quote

YES please!  Very Happy
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TogashiD

Rep: 0.1


PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:36 am Post subject: Re: Improved graphics for CC2? Reply with quote

Would this be with the TH 3.4 patch?
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Uberdave

Rep: 26.9


PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:52 am Post subject: Re: Improved graphics for CC2? Reply with quote

Why not just play LSA?   Smile
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ScnelleMeyer

Rep: 73.5
votes: 7


PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:45 pm Post subject: Re: Improved graphics for CC2? Reply with quote

TogashiD wrote (View Post):
Would this be with the TH 3.4 patch?


Yes, If I do this mod it would be playable with any version of CC2, because it just changes the explode file, not the data files.

Uberdave wrote (View Post):

Why not just play LSA?   Smile


Seems ppl think the AI is the best in CC2 of the whole series. Personally, I never played it much and Im thinking its partly because I dont like the map colours and the explosion graphic effects. - I started playing Close Combat with CC3 and got used to the then updated graphics,  before getting CC2.
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DaveySmith1

Rep: 2.6


PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:05 pm Post subject: Re: Improved graphics for CC2? Reply with quote

I wouldn't say the AI is better in CC2, it's pretty much the same system, its just that the maps are smaller and when they made later CC games with bigger maps they didn't bother improving the AI to fit the bigger maps. Only some minor bugs like tanks spinning randomly and that bee dance shit. For example if you use the small map mod by TIK for gateway to caen, then the AI suddenly becomes more aggressive. Though who plays cc for graphics anyway, the only cc that looks dated in my opinion is CC1.


Last edited by DaveySmith1 on Sat Aug 13, 2016 2:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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ScnelleMeyer

Rep: 73.5
votes: 7


PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:31 pm Post subject: Re: Improved graphics for CC2? Reply with quote

DaveySmith1 wrote (View Post):
I wouldn't say the AI is better in CC2, it's pretty much the same system, its just that the maps are smaller and when they made later CC games with bigger maps they didn't bother improving the AI to fit the bigger maps.


I agree with that Davey Smith. I have been converting the KRETA-mod from CC4 to LSA and I see exactly the same thing on its small maps. AI puts up a real fight and you will loose or take really heavy casualties compared to the AI in some battles.
In CCMT when playing on small maps the AI is a real challenge. - In CCMT the AI can beat you even on the larger maps because of the terrain file and its visibility data.
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Pzt_Kanov

Rep: 29.5
votes: 9


PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 4:34 am Post subject: Re: Improved graphics for CC2? Reply with quote

ScnelleMeyer wrote (View Post):

DaveySmith1 wrote (View Post):
I wouldn't say the AI is better in CC2, it's pretty much the same system, its just that the maps are smaller and when they made later CC games with bigger maps they didn't bother improving the AI to fit the bigger maps.


I agree with that Davey Smith. I have been converting the KRETA-mod from CC4 to LSA and I see exactly the same thing on its small maps. AI puts up a real fight and you will loose or take really heavy casualties compared to the AI in some battles.
In CCMT when playing on small maps the AI is a real challenge. - In CCMT the AI can beat you even on the larger maps because of the terrain file and its visibility data.


I disagree and I think there's definitely something different in CC2 AI beyond the perceived better performance because of the smaller size of the maps. Case in point:

-There's no systematic "crawl of death" and the AI actually tries to assault positions. Whenever I've seen the AI sneaking in CC2 is because the terrain in which they are doing it allows it to be hidden, concealed or offers better protection or they sneak to better position from where to assault. But in urban terrain for example, running is more prevalent.

-Use of suppressive fire. Have you seen the AI in any post-CC2 fire at a building suspected of hiding one of your units? or fire at an completely different building from where your units are hiding? I loaded up CC2 Oosterbeek North and they are suppressing a recon team right now. The recon team is on the back of the building; the AI has no LOS to them, the AI teams are firing at the front of the building. I got a Bren team on third floor building, Panzer IV has no direct LOS to them but they are firing at an bombed out building in front of the one where the Bren team is hiding. Bren team suppressed.

In post-CC2 games, the AI knows only two things: crawl and shoot at units in direct LOS.

Certainly in CC2 the less lethal weaponry, more concealment/protective terrain helps a lot by needing to close up on your opponent to make some real damage which in turn makes you incur in heavier casualties than post-CC2 where you can just snipe with a tank, MG  or mortar and cause significant damage before closing in for the kill.

Small maps is definitely a major part of the equation, but it is not the only thing it makes CC2's AI uniquely challenging.

I haven't tried CCMT all that much.... If only it had enforced point buying system it would have been a smash hit with the H2H crowd, I'm sure of that.


On an somewhat related note. Meyer, with your acquired knowledge in editing graphics do you think that it could be possible for the new soldier sprite for the LMG type weapon from PitF and GtC be imported backwards to other CC's? the new one looks a lot better for say BAR and leMG42. In pre-32b CC's the LMG type gun get's the same sprite as the rifle one.

And could the new 32bCC soldier death animations be overwritten by the old ones? The new death animations (PitF, GtC) have a bug in the animation sequence and some skip from alive to dead with out transition, insantly. All because they added a new animation of a soldier standing falling backwards when shot; in the process they must have screwed the other ones.
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ke_mechial

Rep: 73
votes: 2


PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 4:22 pm Post subject: Re: Improved graphics for CC2? Reply with quote

Pzt_Kanov wrote (View Post):
ScnelleMeyer wrote (View Post):

DaveySmith1 wrote (View Post):
I wouldn't say the AI is better in CC2, it's pretty much the same system, its just that the maps are smaller and when they made later CC games with bigger maps they didn't bother improving the AI to fit the bigger maps.


I agree with that Davey Smith. I have been converting the KRETA-mod from CC4 to LSA and I see exactly the same thing on its small maps. AI puts up a real fight and you will loose or take really heavy casualties compared to the AI in some battles.
In CCMT when playing on small maps the AI is a real challenge. - In CCMT the AI can beat you even on the larger maps because of the terrain file and its visibility data.


I disagree and I think there's definitely something different in CC2 AI beyond the perceived better performance because of the smaller size of the maps. Case in point:

-There's no systematic "crawl of death" and the AI actually tries to assault positions. Whenever I've seen the AI sneaking in CC2 is because the terrain in which they are doing it allows it to be hidden, concealed or offers better protection or they sneak to better position from where to assault. But in urban terrain for example, running is more prevalent.

-Use of suppressive fire. Have you seen the AI in any post-CC2 fire at a building suspected of hiding one of your units? or fire at an completely different building from where your units are hiding? I loaded up CC2 Oosterbeek North and they are suppressing a recon team right now. The recon team is on the back of the building; the AI has no LOS to them, the AI teams are firing at the front of the building. I got a Bren team on third floor building, Panzer IV has no direct LOS to them but they are firing at an bombed out building in front of the one where the Bren team is hiding. Bren team suppressed.

In post-CC2 games, the AI knows only two things: crawl and shoot at units in direct LOS.

Certainly in CC2 the less lethal weaponry, more concealment/protective terrain helps a lot by needing to close up on your opponent to make some real damage which in turn makes you incur in heavier casualties than post-CC2 where you can just snipe with a tank, MG  or mortar and cause significant damage before closing in for the kill.

Small maps is definitely a major part of the equation, but it is not the only thing it makes CC2's AI uniquely challenging.

I haven't tried CCMT all that much.... If only it had enforced point buying system it would have been a smash hit with the H2H crowd, I'm sure of that.


On an somewhat related note. Meyer, with your acquired knowledge in editing graphics do you think that it could be possible for the new soldier sprite for the LMG type weapon from PitF and GtC be imported backwards to other CC's? the new one looks a lot better for say BAR and leMG42. In pre-32b CC's the LMG type gun get's the same sprite as the rifle one.

And could the new 32bCC soldier death animations be overwritten by the old ones? The new death animations (PitF, GtC) have a bug in the animation sequence and some skip from alive to dead with out transition, insantly. All because they added a new animation of a soldier standing falling backwards when shot; in the process they must have screwed the other ones.


Nice Analysis, Kanov.

Yes, AI is the most challenging in CC2 and CC3. It can attack you over and over, from different directions.
After all, these games have Microsoft Brand on them.
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platoon_michael

Rep: 39.4
votes: 25


PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:13 pm Post subject: Re: Improved graphics for CC2? Reply with quote

Wasn't his done a long time ago with better Trees and maybe textures?

I could swear someone did this.
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Pzt_Kanov

Rep: 29.5
votes: 9


PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 12:02 am Post subject: Re: Improved graphics for CC2? Reply with quote

platoon_michael wrote (View Post):
Wasn't his done a long time ago with better Trees and maybe textures?

I could swear someone did this.


I think Mafi made the trees move in the afrika mod with an animation like the flags on the terrain. And there are a couple of mods  that change the texture of the vehicles but I dont remember there having a mod that improves explosions or smoke.
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ke_mechial

Rep: 73
votes: 2


PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 1:52 am Post subject: Re: Improved graphics for CC2? Reply with quote

Pzt_Kanov wrote (View Post):
platoon_michael wrote (View Post):
Wasn't his done a long time ago with better Trees and maybe textures?

I could swear someone did this.


I think Mafi made the trees move in the afrika mod with an animation like the flags on the terrain. And there are a couple of mods  that change the texture of the vehicles but I dont remember there having a mod that improves explosions or smoke.


Yes, and in Just Cause Mod from Nembo, there are wavering trees.
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ScnelleMeyer

Rep: 73.5
votes: 7


PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 10:13 pm Post subject: Re: Improved graphics for CC2? Reply with quote

Kanov what you say about the AI makes a lot of sense. I think you are right about that there was a change in the AI after CC2 -  And it definately lost something.

I have not checked the sprites out, but I would think bringing the new LMG sprite to older versions could work out with a little work,
(I will not prioritize this work at the moment , sorry)

To all: let me be clear : I want to convert GtC effects like explosions, smoke, dust, fire and flame, backwards to CC2. - That's what the poll is for.
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Pzt_Crackwise

Rep: 61.8
votes: 1


PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 11:24 pm Post subject: Re: Improved graphics for CC2? Reply with quote

Would it be possible to update the weapon sounds too? That would be great!
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ScnelleMeyer

Rep: 73.5
votes: 7


PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 11:32 pm Post subject: Re: Improved graphics for CC2? Reply with quote

Pzt_Crackwise wrote (View Post):
Would it be possible to update the weapon sounds too? That would be great!


Yeah, thats possible - could use the sounds from GtC too. But one thing at a time now..
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platoon_michael

Rep: 39.4
votes: 25


PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 5:32 am Post subject: Re: Improved graphics for CC2? Reply with quote

Who was it that did a make over of the maps for CCII a long time back?
Used better Trees/textures?

I know it was available for download.
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Darman2361

Rep: 0.1


PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 5:42 am Post subject: Re: Improved graphics for CC2? Reply with quote

This mod never got made, did it?
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