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vobbnobb

Rep: 61.8
votes: 6


PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:01 pm Post subject: Cool AI Stuff by John Anderson, Lead AI for Atomic Reply with quote

John Anderson, Lead AI / Game System Designer for Atomic Games


The Close Combat series of games have always been very detailed in how they represent warfare during the 1940's in Europe. We have striven to maintain historical accuracy wherever possible as long as it doesn't adversely affect game play. The following are just a few of the interesting details that the AI and Game System in Close Combat III account for

*If a soldier goes berserk, he can cause other teammates to go berserk as well

*A panicked, inexperienced soldier will more likely damage his jammed weapon than fix it.

*Experienced tank drivers make the tank more difficult to disable, as they know how to best use terrain and the angle of the tank against an enemy.

*Experienced teams will employ advanced squad tactics when moving. For example, in some settings one or more soldiers ahead of the rest of the team will stop to provide cover from the enemy while the rest of the team runs by.

*HEAT (high explosive, anti-tank) rounds have reduced effectiveness if fired at a tank that has Schurzen (a metal skirt on the outside of the tank) or if the tank is behind some form of light cover that could pre-detonate the round.

*Soldiers in depressions such as foxholes and trenches cannot be overrun by a tank, and more experienced soldiers will actually try to move out of the way first.

*Prone soldiers are easier to hit if the shooter has a height advantage

*Soldiers with grenades have a small chance of immobilizing an enemy tank if they can get within a few meters of the tank and place a grenade on the engine or in the tracks.


My WW2 CC Series TimeLine
http://tinyurl.com/n2vrec5
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Pzt_Crackwise

Rep: 61.8
votes: 1


PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:45 am Post subject: Re: Cool AI Stuff by John Anderson, Lead AI for Atomic Reply with quote

"Soldiers in depressions such as foxholes and trenches cannot be overrun by a tank, and more experienced soldiers will actually try to move out of the way first. "

So they mean that tanks can actually overrun inf in CC games? This has been a CC myth for so long, some claiming thy saw it, some saying that people are imagining things :)

I personally have not seen infantry being overrun in any CC game. Having read the thing above, I would guess that the developers originally had such a thing in the game but then removed it due to various reasons.
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Tejszd

Rep: 102.2
votes: 16


PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:43 am Post subject: Re: Cool AI Stuff by John Anderson, Lead AI for Atomic Reply with quote

Yes a tank can run over infantry on the ground and kill them.
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Sequoia

Rep: 22.8
votes: 1


PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:23 am Post subject: Re: Cool AI Stuff by John Anderson, Lead AI for Atomic Reply with quote

Hello:

Yes, tanks can overrun infantry. I see this type of attack two times, first in CC3 by a KV at Red Square map, the second by a T-34 in COI Romanian mod in Moscow2 map. I guess that's a rare ocurrence maybe for the combination of factors for a succesfull overun attack. The tank must be spot the inf but not fire with the armament and the infantry must be not try to use grenades/molotov/other close range weapons or surrender.

Bye
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mooxe

Rep: 165.4
votes: 23


PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:34 am Post subject: Re: Cool AI Stuff by John Anderson, Lead AI for Atomic Reply with quote

Yeap, I have ran over many soldiers.
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southern_land

Rep: 140.2
votes: 14


PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 11:27 am Post subject: Re: Cool AI Stuff by John Anderson, Lead AI for Atomic Reply with quote

Yep likewise, run a tank across a group of infantry and you can generally assume that one will become raspberry jam
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ke_mechial

Rep: 73
votes: 2


PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 5:47 pm Post subject: Re: Cool AI Stuff by John Anderson, Lead AI for Atomic Reply with quote

Really nice post, thanks. CC always gives the feeling, it is rather a simulator than a game, which I like. Only missing thing from it through years that has not been developed were graphics and visual effects. Otherwise, no other WWII Game could compare to it.

Besides, I suppose there are even more AI rules, which are not mentioned here. For example, if your tank is not under fire or suppressed, crew also uses AA MG in addition to bow and co-axial.


And what about if  we run drive our tank over our own infantry?
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mooxe

Rep: 165.4
votes: 23


PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:08 pm Post subject: Re: Cool AI Stuff by John Anderson, Lead AI for Atomic Reply with quote

Tanks will not drive over friendly infantry. They may say no clear path.
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vobbnobb

Rep: 61.8
votes: 6


PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 8:05 pm Post subject: Re: Cool AI Stuff by John Anderson, Lead AI for Atomic Reply with quote

yes cool stuff. And this is only some stuff he mentions that go on in the cc series. A while ago I moved soldier into a house house via the move command, I could have swore,  I saw a light mg  gunner staying back in the brush while others moved and entered the house. Only when the last guy entered did he get up and enter himself. This pretty much confirms it.


My WW2 CC Series TimeLine
http://tinyurl.com/n2vrec5
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US_Brake

Rep: 24.2
votes: 22


PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:13 am Post subject: Re: Cool AI Stuff by John Anderson, Lead AI for Atomic Reply with quote

Informative details from John Anderson  Cool




Close Combat's most infamous SOB
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mooxe

Rep: 165.4
votes: 23


PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 9:51 pm Post subject: Re: Cool AI Stuff by John Anderson, Lead AI for Atomic Reply with quote

"Soldiers in depressions such as foxholes and trenches cannot be overrun by a tank, and more experienced soldiers will actually try to move out of the way first. "

I'll see if I can make a video of this.


"If a soldier goes berserk, he can cause other teammates to go berserk as well"

Play the CC5 Berlin mod. Soldiers go berserk pretty often.

"Experienced teams will employ advanced squad tactics when moving. For example, in some settings one or more soldiers ahead of the rest of the team will stop to provide cover from the enemy while the rest of the team runs by."

I believe the manual may state this. Soldiers move tactically when under the "move" command. "Run Fast" is just an all out race.
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vobbnobb

Rep: 61.8
votes: 6


PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:32 pm Post subject: Re: Cool AI Stuff by John Anderson, Lead AI for Atomic Reply with quote

More


   The AI analyzes the player's past deployments for a particular map and adjusts its deployments to counter.

   The AI analyzes the player's past purchasing tendencies (tanks vs. guns vs. infantry) and adjusts its purchases to counter (guns vs. tanks, tanks vs. infantry, and infantry vs. guns).

   The computer AI will sometimes use an unbalanced setup when on attack in order to overrun the enemy's flanks.


My WW2 CC Series TimeLine
http://tinyurl.com/n2vrec5
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southern_land

Rep: 140.2
votes: 14


PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:33 pm Post subject: Re: Cool AI Stuff by John Anderson, Lead AI for Atomic Reply with quote

vobbnobb wrote (View Post):
More


   The AI analyzes the player's past deployments for a particular map and adjusts its deployments to counter.

   The AI analyzes the player's past purchasing tendencies (tanks vs. guns vs. infantry) and adjusts its purchases to counter (guns vs. tanks, tanks vs. infantry, and infantry vs. guns).

   The computer AI will sometimes use an unbalanced setup when on attack in order to overrun the enemy's flanks.


I get the sense that this might have been the case in cc3 but I think they broke something transitioning into cc4
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mooxe

Rep: 165.4
votes: 23


PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 12:40 am Post subject: Re: Cool AI Stuff by John Anderson, Lead AI for Atomic Reply with quote

Post the link or source vobb.
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vobbnobb

Rep: 61.8
votes: 6


PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 9:16 am Post subject: Re: Cool AI Stuff by John Anderson, Lead AI for Atomic Reply with quote

southern_land wrote (View Post):
vobbnobb wrote (View Post):
More


   The AI analyzes the player's past deployments for a particular map and adjusts its deployments to counter.

   The AI analyzes the player's past purchasing tendencies (tanks vs. guns vs. infantry) and adjusts its purchases to counter (guns vs. tanks, tanks vs. infantry, and infantry vs. guns).

   The computer AI will sometimes use an unbalanced setup when on attack in order to overrun the enemy's flanks.


I get the sense that this might have been the case in cc3 but I think they broke something transitioning into cc4


Why would they take it out from cc3 after? No, I'm pretty sure cc4 and cc5 have it there as well with even added stuff, and even matrix built onto ai more or possibly differently.

@ Mooxe here is the source https://web.archive.org/web/20000817072148/http://www.microsoft.com/games/closecombat/design_notes.htm


My WW2 CC Series TimeLine
http://tinyurl.com/n2vrec5
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vobbnobb

Rep: 61.8
votes: 6


PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 9:41 am Post subject: Re: Cool AI Stuff by John Anderson, Lead AI for Atomic Reply with quote

Also you will like

multiple pages of Keith Zabalaoui talking about strategic artificial intelligence and tactical artificial intelligence at gamespot

https://web.archive.org/web/20000817072153/http://www.gamespot.com/features/cc3_dd/012999/index.html


My WW2 CC Series TimeLine
http://tinyurl.com/n2vrec5
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Antony_nz

Rep: 69.8
votes: 6


PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 10:22 am Post subject: Re: Cool AI Stuff by John Anderson, Lead AI for Atomic Reply with quote

Wasn't this guy a co founder of those really awesome book where you role play in a fantasy book?

The book comes with a page where you right down whats in your inventory. All you need is a pencil,rubber and dice.
You read the book then make the decisions effecting the story.  So for example, "If you want to enter the tavern turn to page 68" "If you want to continue down the road, turn to page 130".

It was really cool. Im positive the co founder went on to create Close Combat.
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mick_xe5

Rep: 19.4
votes: 5


PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: Cool AI Stuff by John Anderson, Lead AI for Atomic Reply with quote

vobbnobb wrote (View Post):
More
The AI analyzes the player's past deployments for a particular map and adjusts its deployments to counter.

   The AI analyzes the player's past purchasing tendencies (tanks vs. guns vs. infantry) and adjusts its purchases to counter (guns vs. tanks, tanks vs. infantry, and infantry vs. guns).
These features were intended for CC3 but never implemented. There are two files in the CCIII/Games/ directory, Map.hst and Player.hst, that were going to record map & player "histories".

IIRC, JA left Atomic and went to Microsoft in '98 after CC2 was published while  CC3 was being developed.
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mooxe

Rep: 165.4
votes: 23


PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:47 am Post subject: Re: Cool AI Stuff by John Anderson, Lead AI for Atomic Reply with quote

Thanks mick... had to check, they are there, both files 0 bytes. I don't recall ever noticing those files before.
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mooxe

Rep: 165.4
votes: 23


PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:19 am Post subject: Re: Cool AI Stuff by John Anderson, Lead AI for Atomic Reply with quote

"Soldiers in depressions such as foxholes and trenches cannot be overrun by a tank, and more experienced soldiers will actually try to move out of the way first."


This is kind of the lore of CC that we expect from it and seldom put any thought to it being programming. This particular feature we would also seldom use. Who wants to risk a tank by driving right over top of enemy infantry.

So... I just tested this on my back to back PCs. I setup three trenches with three teams in them. It works as stated in CC5. I used GJS, Buron map, stock battle. DD Sherman overrunning elite SS troops without any AT weapons. On my German monitor, as the tank got to within a couple meters the men started standing up, the tank ran overtop, then the men starting moving out of the trench. No casualties.

The second trench... The Germans started standing up and presumably moving out of the way. I killed two with the tank that I also assume wiggled there way out of the trench in search of safety.
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