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dvphimself

Rep: 12.2
votes: 2


PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:50 pm Post subject: REAL-LIFE GTC Maps! Reply with quote

Please enjoy these direct comparisons between the GTC game maps and the real life battlefields of The Battle for the Odon










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Schmal_Turm

Rep: 44.3
votes: 1


PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: REAL-LIFE GTC Maps! Reply with quote

Very interesting. Thanks for the views.


"No plan ever survives first contact with the enemy." Moltke
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dvphimself

Rep: 12.2
votes: 2


PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: REAL-LIFE GTC Maps! Reply with quote

















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ScnelleMeyer

Rep: 158.1
votes: 10


PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:36 pm Post subject: Re: REAL-LIFE GTC Maps! Reply with quote

Amazing comparisons! - Thank you for sharing these.
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Pete

Rep: 102.2
votes: 11


PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:51 pm Post subject: Re: REAL-LIFE GTC Maps! Reply with quote

Very nice work. Must have taken you some time!


Dulce Bellum Inexpertis
(War is delightful to those who have no experience of it.)
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mooxe

Rep: 171.3
votes: 23


PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:26 pm Post subject: Re: REAL-LIFE GTC Maps! Reply with quote

Nicely done. I have found myself doing the same comparisons over the years, especially during a trip to Normandy back in 2002. Difficult to line up CC5 Carentan with Band of Brother Carentan to real Carentan! I have gone down some rabbit holes looking for then and nows of where bombers crashed, and tried to line up Ploesti photos from WW2 with satellite imagery of today.

Eventually the rabbit holes led me to this site, http://thirdreichruins.com/

Comparisons and then and now photos are always an interesting read into history.
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dvphimself

Rep: 12.2
votes: 2


PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:27 pm Post subject: Re: REAL-LIFE GTC Maps! Reply with quote

mooxe wrote (View Post):
Nicely done. I have found myself doing the same comparisons over the years, especially during a trip to Normandy back in 2002. Difficult to line up CC5 Carentan with Band of Brother Carentan to real Carentan! I have gone down some rabbit holes looking for then and nows of where bombers crashed, and tried to line up Ploesti photos from WW2 with satellite imagery of today.

Eventually the rabbit holes led me to this site, http://thirdreichruins.com/

Comparisons and then and now photos are always an interesting read into history.


Yes, it was a project of rabbit hole origins. I had come across a photo in a book of the Scotts HQ in Manvieu, and decided to see if I could find it on google street view. That's when I realized the real-life St Manvieu was almost identical to the game map, and the project sort of began. Unfortunately, re: the Scotts HQ, it lies just east of where the game map cuts off, towards the centre of the frame.


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Jatke

Rep: 12.5
votes: 2


PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:04 am Post subject: Re: REAL-LIFE GTC Maps! Reply with quote

The GtC maps also share similarity to WW2 vintage 1:50k topo maps.

Caen sheet
Aunay-Sur-Odon sheet
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dvphimself

Rep: 12.2
votes: 2


PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:09 am Post subject: Re: REAL-LIFE GTC Maps! Reply with quote

Jatke wrote (View Post):
The GtC maps also share similarity to WW2 vintage 1:50k topo maps.

Caen sheet
Aunay-Sur-Odon sheet


Wow, thanks for sharing. This goes a long way to answer how they knew where the old bocage and orchards were. If you look carefully at the google maps I posted, you can see the ruins of some of the old bocage lines and orchards (Mue and Cassino are good examples).


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dvphimself

Rep: 12.2
votes: 2


PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:15 am Post subject: Re: REAL-LIFE GTC Maps! Reply with quote

Here are the ones that fell through the cracks. I suppose I am less organized than I could be. I hope this helps expand other's enjoyment of GTC, and to put into perspective the criticism that it covers too narrow a breadth of action. In larger CC campaigns, 0.25sqkm maps are forced to represent upwards of 100sqkm of terrain, and so the player experience is then limited to 'The Greatest Hits' of the various campaigns. For example, on the campaign map for CC5/TLD, the whole of GTC would have to be represented by a single location. Imagine how detailed TLD would be if each location was subdivided into 30 locations. That's what's happening in GTC. GTC brings you every barn, every hedgerow, in an almost continuous depicted battlefield. It's pinnacle realism, even by CC standards.





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dvphimself

Rep: 12.2
votes: 2


PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:23 pm Post subject: Re: REAL-LIFE GTC Maps! Reply with quote

I am learning to count to thirty. I think I got it this time.



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Pzt_Crackwise

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votes: 1


PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:18 pm Post subject: Re: REAL-LIFE GTC Maps! Reply with quote

Really cool, didn't know that the maps were so realistic. Thanks a lot for sharing with us!

I wish GtC developers had ironed out the gameplay and lobby issues... A pity that it is limited to their shitty server for playing MP.
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dvphimself

Rep: 12.2
votes: 2


PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: REAL-LIFE GTC Maps! Reply with quote

Pzt_Crackwise wrote (View Post):
Really cool, didn't know that the maps were so realistic. Thanks a lot for sharing with us!


You can do a similar thing with PiTF but there are large swathes of un-represented land in between the battlefields in that game.
They really should have advertised that more with these games.
I suppose if you get the suggested reading list it would become obvious. But even that is hidden on page 90 something of the manual Sad


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Pete

Rep: 102.2
votes: 11


PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:46 pm Post subject: Re: REAL-LIFE GTC Maps! Reply with quote

dvphimself wrote (View Post):
Jatke wrote (View Post):
The GtC maps also share similarity to WW2 vintage 1:50k topo maps.

Caen sheet
Aunay-Sur-Odon sheet


Wow, thanks for sharing. This goes a long way to answer how they knew where the old bocage and orchards were. If you look carefully at the google maps I posted, you can see the ruins of some of the old bocage lines and orchards (Mue and Cassino are good examples).

The map designer Koen Bekkema visited many of the map's locations on site. He used to visit this forum under his nick 'Conrad'.


Dulce Bellum Inexpertis
(War is delightful to those who have no experience of it.)
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Pete

Rep: 102.2
votes: 11


PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:50 pm Post subject: Re: REAL-LIFE GTC Maps! Reply with quote

dvphimself wrote (View Post):

You can do a similar thing with PiTF but there are large swathes of un-represented land in between the battlefields in that game.
They really should have advertised that more with these games.
I suppose if you get the suggested reading list it would become obvious. But even that is hidden on page 90 something of the manual Sad


This is the case with all versions of the game. You would get a very small scale battleground if you made all maps link each other realistically. The only mod I can think of that comes close is the Ortona mod for CC5 where the town maps partially overlap.


Dulce Bellum Inexpertis
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dvphimself

Rep: 12.2
votes: 2


PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:41 pm Post subject: Re: REAL-LIFE GTC Maps! Reply with quote

Pete wrote (View Post):
This is the case with all versions of the game. You would get a very small scale battleground if you made all maps link each other realistically. The only mod I can think of that comes close is the Ortona mod for CC5 where the town maps partially overlap.
dvphimself wrote (View Post):

You can do a similar thing with PiTF but there are large swathes of un-represented land in between the battlefields in that game.
They really should have advertised that more with these games.
I suppose if you get the suggested reading list it would become obvious. But even that is hidden on page 90 something of the manual Sad


This is the case with all versions of the game. You would get a very small scale battleground if you made all maps link each other realistically. The only mod I can think of that comes close is the Ortona mod for CC5 where the town maps partially overlap.


With GTC there are very few gaps in between the maps, some line up right next to each other, and in some cases there are even areas of overlap- like the bottom of Bougy at the top of Hill 113!
The older titles have to pick very narrow sectors from the battlefields they represent.They definitely curated their selections extremely well in that regard.
Looking at CC5 as an example, the city of Caen is 1 battle location on the world map, and it's a tiny sliver of the town. You can see which sliver it matches, no doubt, but the rest is unplayable blankness.
The area between Caen and Carpiquet essentially doesnt exist. Most of the world map doesn't really exist at tactics level. The maps are at most like .25sqkm so I imagine a fraction of 1 percent of the battlefield is depicted. GTC is closer to half, in some areas all exists at tactical level. Both are awesome, I enjoy the scope of the large operations, as well as the realism that the smaller scale adds.

All of GTC is about the same area as the town of Caen, divided into 30 instead of 1 map. In CC5 the whole area would probably be represented by Cheux. That isn't a bad thing, because then they can portray an operation on a massive scale. It's just a different approach.


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