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GameRat

Rep: 34.4
votes: 2


PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:40 pm Post subject: LSA GJS 9.4 Air Strikes - Broken feature Reply with quote

Recently Steiner and I started playing the "Breakout" Operation in GJS 9.4

We had Airstrike crashes on two maps out of four maps at the beginning. It pretty much ruined the way the Operation plays out, due to the significance of the initial battles.

Therefore we replayed the battles and decided to not use Airstrikes.
I've come to the conclusion that Airstrikes are a broken feature in this game. And although I like them when they work ... I'm no longer going to use them, due to their inconsistency.

Having to reconstruct territory and losses or replay battles ... takes away too much from the game, in my opinion.
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Tejszd

Rep: 123.7
votes: 19


PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:44 pm Post subject: Re: LSA GJS 9.4 Air Strikes - Broken feature Reply with quote

Yes, its too bad they are still occurring all these years later and making it so the feature is avoided.

In the next Meuse version I'm reducing air support for both sides to have less crashes.
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Pzt_Crackwise

Rep: 64.9
votes: 1


PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:12 pm Post subject: Re: LSA GJS 9.4 Air Strikes - Broken feature Reply with quote

Removal of airstrike may be a good idea for balance purposes as well. It would make the life of Allies much harder when facing the big cats. Allies can still deplete German panthers/tigers by damaging them, but now they would have to do it more directly by facing them with tanks.

What are your plans for artillery support btw? You could increase the amount of artillery support to compensate for the lack of air support. But artillery support in GJS 9.1 was too effective against infantry even when they were in buildings, it needs to be toned down a bit.
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GameRat

Rep: 34.4
votes: 2


PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:17 pm Post subject: Re: LSA GJS 9.4 Air Strikes - Broken feature Reply with quote

Yes, Tejszd ... unfortunately not fixed. Probably a good idea you have to reduce it for Meuse.

Talked with Steiner about this a bit ... and he thinks Allied Airstrikes are important to keep in game, at least for the Grand Campaign.

Although he suggested to not use them on a few maps where they are known to crash the game frequently.
For example: Bayeux, Buron ... etc.
I can't remember what other maps had this problem, but it seems to be mostly map specific for the Airstrike problem specifically.

So, whenever we play our next GC ... we'll agree to use Air support, but not for a number of specific maps.

Crackwise ... some changes where made for 9.4 regarding quantities of support. But no plans to change the strength of Artillery support.

Therefore, it might be best to just leave things how they are in 9.4 ... at let players decide if they want to use Air Strikes or not.
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stiener

Rep: 37.2
votes: 3


PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 8:04 am Post subject: Re: LSA GJS 9.4 Air Strikes - Broken feature Reply with quote

just wanted to chime in so i get e mails when someone posts here...but ya...what gamerat just said.....i think allied airstrikes are important to the GC....and i still think its some how MAP related...at least thats what i seem to see in the many many GJS battles ive had over the last few years.


WHEN THE PIN IS PULLED "MR GRENADE"IS NOT OUR FRIEND !
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mooxe

Rep: 170.8
votes: 23


PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: LSA GJS 9.4 Air Strikes - Broken feature Reply with quote

It could be the arrangement of elements on the map coding and how they change (destructible elements) when the ammunition hits.

The best test it to try and duplicate the issue. If you know a map that is prone to airstrike crashes, launch an airstrike on the same spot again, and again.
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Tejszd

Rep: 123.7
votes: 19


PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: LSA GJS 9.4 Air Strikes - Broken feature Reply with quote

The element idea is a good one.

Steve supposedly fixed an air strike crash related to the map edge. Possibly trying to draw/put explosions outside the map?

There is an open TLD bug as a gun can disappear from the deployed 15 units. Steve thought the initial placement might be to an area not allowed or large enough which is element related and I do not think it has ever been fixed. See post 50 here http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3387394&mpage=2&key=
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GameRat

Rep: 34.4
votes: 2


PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:23 pm Post subject: Re: LSA GJS 9.4 Air Strikes - Broken feature Reply with quote

mooxe wrote (View Post):
It could be the arrangement of elements on the map coding and how they change (destructible elements) when the ammunition hits.

The best test it to try and duplicate the issue. If you know a map that is prone to airstrike crashes, launch an airstrike on the same spot again, and again.


Good one Mooxe, I never thought of that.
But, since Airstrike crashes have been known for a long time and haven't been successfully fixed ... I'm thinking that it might be something that isn't possible to correct.

From my understanding, Airplane graphics replace one or more of the explosion effect animations, normally used for off board support. And maybe, since there is a lot of images needed to make the airplane appear to be moving across the screen ... it's just too much for the game to handle at times under certain conditions.
But, I have no real knowledge of why it crashes.

I'm at the point now though, that I'm not wanting to use a feature that causes the game to crash ... which results in a rebuild or replay.
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mooxe

Rep: 170.8
votes: 23


PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 4:31 pm Post subject: Re: LSA GJS 9.4 Air Strikes - Broken feature Reply with quote

Is it possible to not use the aircraft graphic?
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ScnelleMeyer

Rep: 149.1
votes: 11


PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 5:26 pm Post subject: Re: LSA GJS 9.4 Air Strikes - Broken feature Reply with quote

"From my understanding, Airplane graphics replace one or more of the explosion effect animations, normally used for off board support. And maybe, since there is a lot of images needed to make the airplane appear to be moving across the screen"

No, it doesnt replace any explosion graphics in the games that have airsupport built in. The replacing of explosion graphics was only necessary for CC3/COI. And airsupport runs fine in COI even with a lot of images needed. If the case was that the airplanes somehow overloaded the game at runtime then the converted GtC explosions would cause crashes all the time as they are really image heavy.

Mooxe: Yeah you can replace the aircraft image with a 1x1 pixel in the Tanks.azp file if you like.
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mooxe

Rep: 170.8
votes: 23


PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 5:40 pm Post subject: Re: LSA GJS 9.4 Air Strikes - Broken feature Reply with quote

Well, I am just thinking...

Sometimes in an H2H game thats lagged a bit, turning off/on trees and dead bodies results in a CTD. Maybe its some sort of sync issue with the graphics.

Maybe duplicating an airstrike crash, and slowing down the plane graphic or removing it could be a start.
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Pzt_Crackwise

Rep: 64.9
votes: 1


PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: LSA GJS 9.4 Air Strikes - Broken feature Reply with quote

Turning on/off trees or dead bodies indeed cause crashes sometimes during h2h games. However, I don't understand why there should be a sync issue in that case. Since the graphics effects are shown/hidden only locally on the player who adjusts with the settings.

I also had a crash recently which can actually be related to some sort of sync issue. I was the host and the enemy tank I was shooting at was abandoned by its crew on my part; however it had already crashed on the joiner's side a second before the tank was abandoned. Maybe this is useful info for you guys.
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GameRat

Rep: 34.4
votes: 2


PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:18 pm Post subject: Re: LSA GJS 9.4 Air Strikes - Broken feature Reply with quote

ScnelleMeyer wrote (View Post):
No, it doesnt replace any explosion graphics in the games that have airsupport built in. The replacing of explosion graphics was only necessary for CC3/COI. And airsupport runs fine in COI even with a lot of images needed. If the case was that the airplanes somehow overloaded the game at runtime then the converted GtC explosions would cause crashes all the time as they are really image heavy.


But CC3 was before the newer games that have air support built in. Therefore, air support airplane graphics replacing a regular support explosion ... was how it began. That was my point.

Also, airplane graphics travel across the screen ... but explosion and smoke are single location effects.

But, nice to hear COI runs without air support crashes. I didn't know that.

I remember years ago, Zonbie made some parachute graphics to replace the airplane graphics in CC3 Western Front mod. It worked, but I seem to remember the game would crash if there was too many images in the animation sequence.
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ScnelleMeyer

Rep: 149.1
votes: 11


PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:30 pm Post subject: Re: LSA GJS 9.4 Air Strikes - Broken feature Reply with quote

Gamerat, yeah there is a max number of images per sequence - I ran into it when trying to update the explosion graphics in CC2. There are more images allowed post CC2 though.
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