Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:35 am Post subject: Re: Gold Juno Sword 9.5 GC strategic information
LSA GJS 9.5 German Battle Groups
Strategic map moves guidance and Combat Effectiveness rating
Information listed for each Battle Group (BG):
Date of arrival on Strategic map
BG name, Combat Effectiveness Rating number, Arrival map, suggested “move to” map.
Combat Effectiveness Rating:
note: plus sign (+) after rating number, indicates BG has PanzerSchreck infantry
note: P or T after rating number indicates Panther or Tiger in BG
note: V after rating number indicates an armor BG has a Vehicle column
5: more than five Panthers/Tigers or Tanks with Vehicle column
4: more than ten Tanks /Assault Guns/ Tanks Destroyers or less than five Panthers/Tigers
3: less than ten Tanks, and/or Assault Guns/ Tanks Destroyers, or (small number of late arriving Panthers)
2: Assault Guns/Anti-Tank Guns, with or without Vehicles
1: ATG’s and Vehicles
June 6, night turn
KG Oppeln / 21 Pz. Div. - Rating 5V - Aunay-Sur-Odon > Benouville
I./25 / 12 SS Pz. Div. - Rating 3 - Aunay-Sur-Odon > Buron
KG Luck / 21 Pz. Div. - Rating 3 - Thury Harcourt > Ranville
Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:28 am Post subject: Re: Gold Juno Sword 9.4 GC strategic information
The GJS strat map with total VL values for each map, ie. the numbers that determine who wins.
IMO, these totals should have generally increased the further south (left) you go. In particular, Saint-Germain, the furthest map from the coast in the direction of Falaise, should have more VL points than Buron.
The GJS strat map with total VL values for each map, ie. the numbers that determine who wins.
IMO, these totals should have generally increased the further south (left) you go. In particular, Saint-Germain, the furthest map from the coast in the direction of Falaise, should have more VL points than Buron.
Hi Jatke,
Thanks for overlaying the map values on the strategic map ... interesting to see it like that.
As for your suggestion of map values generally increasing the further south (left) you go ...
Why do you think that is important? and/or ... how would the Grand Campaign benefit?
Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:35 pm Post subject: Re: Gold Juno Sword 9.4 GC strategic information
The benefit would be a longer campaign potentially. Allies only have to contest the center row of maps for a minor victory. There's not many who play through an entire GC especially when all hopes for a stalemate or victory have been lost. The left side of the strat map is barely played.
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The benefit would be a longer campaign potentially. Allies only have to contest the center row of maps for a minor victory. There's not many who play through an entire GC especially when all hopes for a stalemate or victory have been lost. The left side of the strat map is barely played.
Makes sense what you say Mooxe.
I guess it depends on what you expect from the Grand Campaign ...
1. are you wanting to simulate historical events?
2. what level of realism are you trying to achieve, related to gameplay balance and player interest/motivation?
3. are you wanting to simulate the type of combat relative to history?
Honestly, it took me a while to appreciate the type of gameplay in the Grand Campaign. I initially expected the Allies to advance through an inland map in two or three battles. But in most cases, it takes much longer and its possible for the Allies to get pushed back.
Between different versions of the mod, I read a book called "Breakout From Normandy" (Zuehlke)... which gives the reader many examples of how difficult and hard fought most Normandy battles were.
After reading the book, I was kind of surprised by how much the GJS battles seem to simulate the type of combat described in the book.
I personally value historical correctness and realism. And so, I had those attributes in mind when I began to edit GJS after Cathartes moved it to LSA, which was version 6.0.
GJS version 6.0 is a masterpiece itself, in my opinion, but due to the move from CC5 to LSA ... more effort was needed to improve gameplay.
And since historically the center line maps are approximately the front line of the Allied advance at June 30 ... I use this as a measure of success related to the results of the Grand Campaign. I was hoping the GC would be balanced for a stalemate when players are Line vs Line ... and the Allied front line is approximately historical.
Therefore, if two similar skilled players finish the Grand Campaign and the result is a stalemate ... then the Grand Campaign plays out in a way similar to history ... and is a success, because it is able to reasonably simulate history.
And if a player achieves a minor victory or better ... then he/she has achieved a true victory in the GC.
Unfortunately, I don't have enough data of similarly skilled H2H players to know if the GC is balanced to represent a stalemate ... but I think it's close, considering changes made for 9.4
As for left side maps being barely played ... there is two historical "Operations" in 9.4 covering this area.
1. GJS Breakout (Goodwood and Atlantic July 18 )
2. GJS Operation Perch (XXX Corps - Panzer Lehr)
Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:59 am Post subject: Re: Gold Juno Sword 9.4 GC strategic information
Since the British objective in June '44 was to move south and seize Caen, its reasonable to assume points further south would have higher value, both to the Brits at the time and in-game.
Black line in image below roughly indicates the front line as of 6/30/44. The Germans control 444 VL points. The Brits control 451 (I split Bavent 10-4). It surely seems that whoever did the VLs used history, the 6/30 front line, as a guide in lieu of being able to average ~100 playtest results.
There is also the issue that a solo campaign really deserves 2 separate scales of VL points, entirely different than H2H victory conditions; one when playing the allies and another when playing the axis.
Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:11 am Post subject: Re: Gold Juno Sword 9.4 GC strategic information
Hi Jatke,
haha, interesting how that worked out.
good job putting in the historical front line ... thanks
Looks like the original mod crew did a great job with the maps point allocation ... it wasn't me.
I don't know what their method and reasoning was for how points were given to each map.
Nevertheless, it's not something I've considered changing ... at least until more information and feedback is available from multiple GC samples. Interesting to think about though.
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