Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 11:07 pm Post subject: Open Letter : Dear Modders
To all Close Combat modders, I have a couple of things to mention:
First of all thank you for all the hard work and effort you put into modding this great game. I have really reaped the benefit of all of the wonderful people who put their time into making these great mods. I am trully grateful. Thats why it pains me to make the second remark:
Although I hate to whine about something that is free, I have one request to make for the future modding efforts out there:
Please leave the AI alone. The original CC5 ai was excellent, and it was designed by a group of professionals. In fact the Ai for the entire CC series is excellent. However some modders out there seem to think they can improve on it, or that it needs tweaking. Trust me, it doesnt. Leave the AI alone. In particular the GJS mod and the Stalingrad mod suffer from this problem. Soldiers are meant to fire at targets in their Field of View, tanks dont wait for a command to engage another tank. Watching squads die because I didnt give them the order to fire, or better yet, having to give them the order to fire again and again, is not Close Combat: its mircomanagement RTS style. Please stop this trend in the modding scene, it makes the GJS and Stalingrad mods unplayable.
This has been a public announcement by The Ministry of Fun.
Cheers
PS: Would someone please mod the invasion of Norway, Crete, and Tunisia (torch). These are great subjects for mods and are begging to be made. I would like this mods to be ready for download by tomorrow if possible
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 1:07 am Post subject: Re: Open Letter : Dear Modders
Pzt_Megadeth wrote:
To all Close Combat modders, I have a couple of things to mention:
First of all thank you for all the hard work and effort you put into modding this great game. I have really reaped the benefit of all of the wonderful people who put their time into making these great mods. I am trully grateful. Thats why it pains me to make the second remark:
Although I hate to whine about something that is free, I have one request to make for the future modding efforts out there:
Please leave the AI alone. The original CC5 ai was excellent, and it was designed by a group of professionals. In fact the Ai for the entire CC series is excellent. However some modders out there seem to think they can improve on it, or that it needs tweaking. Trust me, it doesnt. Leave the AI alone. In particular the GJS mod and the Stalingrad mod suffer from this problem. Soldiers are meant to fire at targets in their Field of View, tanks dont wait for a command to engage another tank. Watching squads die because I didnt give them the order to fire, or better yet, having to give them the order to fire again and again, is not Close Combat: its mircomanagement RTS style. Please stop this trend in the modding scene, it makes the GJS and Stalingrad mods unplayable.
This has been a public announcement by The Ministry of Fun.
Cheers
PS: Would someone please mod the invasion of Norway, Crete, and Tunisia (torch). These are great subjects for mods and are begging to be made. I would like this mods to be ready for download by tomorrow if possible
Modders have more information about the guns and tanks then general programmers have, they don't research as much as some modders do, AT_Dima for example he research everything since the color of the boots to the type of shells... And secondly no one changed the AI... If you play any mod the teams that aren't in sneak always fire against enemies in LOS
Cheers
Megadeth-- if you find some one who can "tweak the AI" that means they've been able to mod the engine -- please tell us!!!! Yeah -- if we could mod the AI you've have mods with 88 maps and streaming re-inforcements and that's just for starters.
Playing CC since -97 (CC2) you must understand that after playing against the AI in thousands of battles it is room for improvement.I dont agree that the AI in CC5 is good, changing mapsizes, locations of victory flags and morale on the units can sometimes make wonders....
When i make a mod i made it for my own pleasure first and if i like it i will make it avalible for everyone.Maybe this is a stupid opinion but it is my opinion.
For every new mod made we all learn new things and if we together can improve the AI i think it is a great progress for this fantastic game!
The term AI is too general obviously, what I meant was dont mess with the engagement decision. Units should fire at targets automatically, when on "defend". Thats pretty much it. This is what the "defend" command is for.
The term AI is too general obviously, what I meant was dont mess with the engagement decision. Units should fire at targets automatically, when on "defend". Thats pretty much it. This is what the "defend" command is for.
In both Mods you've mentioned, I've set up traps took my hand off the mouse and watched as my units opened fire and destroyed enemy units. Some unit will sometime not fire (that's in the original CC5 too) morale, experience and fatigue can all have an impact on a units ability to respond and return fire.
What it sounds like to me, is that something outrageous happed during a battle and it annoyed you. There are flukes in every game againsy the AI (and palyers rarely complain when the fluke is in their favor --i.e they will complain wildly when their own tanks do the dance of death but it doesn't seem to bother them when the AIs vehicles do the same thing. Or they will freak out if the crew member from a disable gun or tank puts up a fight and takes out a few of their guys but have no problem when one of their injured infantrymen who is out of amy manages to beat the whole crew of a machine gun nest to death.
The AI has problems --regardless of the mods and to be honest, experienced players have been praising this Mod without exception.
Like this comment I just read on Boar's AAR
"Design note: Though I am no modder, it seems that the infantry cover values chosen by the Stalingrad modders were well done -- it is often difficult, if not impossible, to see certain units like the PRTS or PRTD until you are right on top of them with infantry. "
If the AI annoys you and want to get your frustration out, get Q-Clone, go into the weapons.txt, set the kill value for 82mm mortars to 250. Fill up your BG with mortar units and nuke the AI for a few rounds.
I dont know what it is exactly that the modders changed in the values that affected the defensive value of the AI, but I am sure that its not a figment of my imagination. I have played both sides for both mods, several times, and seen the same thing over and over again. Combat teams stop firing at targets in full view, or dont fire at all. I have seen players exploit this flaw several times, attacking in one direction to distract then attacking in another to run/drive past your defenses that wont do anything unless you give them direct orders.
Others mods dont do this, its something I have only seen in Stalingrad and GJS, and that others have seen as well. Some people like micro management, some people like RTS style gameplay, but I dont like it in my close combat, so I avoid those mods. I am back to Omaha actually and loving it, and excellent mod all around, except for the over enthusiasm on sherman modelling..... I am sure plenty of people love the two mods mentioned, and they are very popular, there is no doubt. However, the fact remains that the mods changed the way ai decides to engage, and these changes were not part of the original design of gameplay for CC5. I have been playing CC since the first one came out, so I have some idea of what I the game should play like.
Otherwise, the two mods mentioned are wonderful, the maps are great and the research excellent, too bad about gameplay.
Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 1:04 pm Post subject: cc ai
infantry, tanks, guns, vehicles, etc...will not always fire at enemy target when set on defend, even if they have los. they fire when they have a 30% or greater chance of making a kill.
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 3:18 am Post subject: mmm
what r ur normal game settings megadeath?
Forget words,actions will show your true ambitions!The Battlefield,In many cases, the terrain of a battlefield can be the best resource a commander has. A clump of trees, an abandoned house, or a drainage ditch can all be powerful tools in the right hands
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In August of 2004, Zappi, Homba, Bambam887, RedScorpion and MOOXE all pitched
in to create this Close Combat site. I would to thank all the people who have visited
and found this site to thier liking. I hope you had time to check out some
of the great Close Combat mods and our forums. I'd also like to thank
all the members of our volunteer staff that have helped over
the years, and all our users that contributed to this site!
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