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Do incapacitations count as a soldier's kills?

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Bungarra

Rep: 128.8
votes: 5


PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:12 am Post subject: Unexploded ordinance from WWII still taking lives Reply with quote

Germany is but one of all the countries in Europe still coping with dud shells and bombs not only from WWII but from WW1 as well

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-02/munich-bomb-explosion/100667952


You know if you don't live it.... You can't give it.
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dj

Rep: 141.9
votes: 8


PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:52 am Post subject: Re: Unexploded ordinance from WWII still taking lives Reply with quote

Surprising to see Germany still has issues with bombs leftover from the war after all these years.  I see another article on that site showing bomb explosion in German farmland caused earthquake.
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dj

Rep: 141.9
votes: 8


PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:55 am Post subject: Re: Unexploded ordinance from WWII still taking lives Reply with quote

Another problem Germany has it that only been 30 years since re-unification of East Germany.  Very little if anything was done by Soviet controlled East Germany to clear bombs.  And was left in ruins for decades in the East.
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JFFulcrum

Rep: 64.5


PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: Unexploded ordinance from WWII still taking lives Reply with quote

Quote:
Very little if anything was done by Soviet controlled East Germany to clear bombs

Really? USSR stationed hundreds of thousands troops in East Germany, and put them into such a risks? Although Soviet was really missing democratic ways of clearing landmines from West.
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dj

Rep: 141.9
votes: 8


PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:30 am Post subject: Re: Unexploded ordinance from WWII still taking lives Reply with quote

USA had funded project Marshall Plan equivalent to $114 billion USD to rebuild Europe including Germany.  Soviets were spending their money making East Germany into police state, more like prison state with walls to keep people from fleeing to West.  No coincidence Putin learned his KGB trade and how to speak German in East Germany.

I know of no evidence Soviet state investing resources to rebuilding East Germany, with the exception of their section of Berlin. I'm sure they spent some amount of money where relevant but minimal.

Trivia question...when did Russian military leave Germany?  Answer: 1994 Boris Yeltsin sent last of Russian occupation troops home.  Reason was due to economic hardships.  He could have stayed longer if he wanted to due to treaty agreement terms.
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dj

Rep: 141.9
votes: 8


PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:45 am Post subject: Re: Unexploded ordinance from WWII still taking lives Reply with quote

Point being Soviet forces bypassed ruins and bombed out cities where maybe still bomb threats in buried in debris. Of course they would never put their own soldiers at risk.  I think by the time they took Berlin they had already cleared mines.  Step by step very methodical final assault into East Germany.  They had massed not hundreds of thousands of troops but many millions.  Just the siege of Berlin they had well over a million, probably 2 million in the greater Berlin area alone.
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JFFulcrum

Rep: 64.5


PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:47 am Post subject: Re: Unexploded ordinance from WWII still taking lives Reply with quote

Quote:
USA had funded project Marshall Plan equivalent to $114 billion USD to rebuild Europe including Germany.

Part of that money was actually fall to hands of CIA, to build espionage network in east Europe and obliterate communists movement in west Europe. Walls really at start was build from Soviet side, but reasons was not to build a prison, but protection for unfriendly actions, like border crossing of well-armed and CIA-trained 'insurgence' groups and black market&smuggling caused by one-sided 1948 money reform in West Germany in opposite to previous allies agreements.

Quote:
I know of no evidence Soviet state investing resources to rebuilding East Germany, with the exception of their section of Berlin. I'm sure they spent some amount of money where relevant but minimal.

Somewhere until 1951 USSR was really not much interested in East Germany rebuilt, limiting to clear of waterpaths and restoration of railway network. BTW, even partially ruined Germany was still more advanced that most afterwar parts of Soviet Union. After 1950, when became clear with Cold War and next division of Europe, there was investment's into East Germany by the line of CEMA (???) organization.
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dj

Rep: 141.9
votes: 8


PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:30 am Post subject: Re: Unexploded ordinance from WWII still taking lives Reply with quote

JFFulcrum wrote (View Post):
Quote:
USA had funded project Marshall Plan equivalent to $114 billion USD to rebuild Europe including Germany.

Part of that money was actually fall to hands of CIA, to build espionage network in east Europe and obliterate communists movement in west Europe. Walls really at start was build from Soviet side, but reasons was not to build a prison, but protection for unfriendly actions, like border crossing of well-armed and CIA-trained 'insurgence' groups and black market&smuggling caused by one-sided 1948 money reform in West Germany in opposite to previous allies agreements.

Quote:
I know of no evidence Soviet state investing resources to rebuilding East Germany, with the exception of their section of Berlin. I'm sure they spent some amount of money where relevant but minimal.

Somewhere until 1951 USSR was really not much interested in East Germany rebuilt, limiting to clear of waterpaths and restoration of railway network. BTW, even partially ruined Germany was still more advanced that most afterwar parts of Soviet Union. After 1950, when became clear with Cold War and next division of Europe, there was investment's into East Germany by the line of CEMA (???) organization.


hahaha I needed a good laugh.  Is that was the Soviet government told people?  The East German police had 500 page dossiers on each citizen + subsidized as Soviet-controlled proxy state.  Don't think that would have worked out so well with guerrilla insurgence ops.  Yes there was blackmarket but so was there in USSR also.  Saying the wall was to keep people out is what China told Romney. To keep Chinese slave-laborers surrounded by barb wire, because to many workers from outside were desperate to break into the plant to work.

Yes good point about Germany becoming more advanced in some ways than the ones that defeated it.  Same can be said about USA in comparison to not only Germany but also Japan.  USA had invested heavily sending our most best engineering and development advisors to oversee reconstruction.  By the 1970's Japan and Germany started to eclipse USA manufacturing with superior products & had new modern infrastructures. USA at least had GI Bill led to affordable housing boom.  Now USA home market turned to shit, nobody can afford homes anymore.
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JFFulcrum

Rep: 64.5


PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2021 11:08 am Post subject: Re: Unexploded ordinance from WWII still taking lives Reply with quote

Quote:
Is that was the Soviet government told people?  The East German police had 500 page dossiers on each citizen + subsidized as Soviet-controlled proxy state


The Staszi things take place later. The western governments likely also do not told people about their negligence in respecting Soviet block borders, sending spies, guerrillas (including horse-mounted), speedboats, midget submarines, gliders, planes, balloons. The invaders don't hesitate to open fire first. Just in 1950s over 50 NATO planes was shot by WPO forces, some was masked to civilian planes, at least one opened fire on interceptors from concealed gun pods, dozens of pilots was captured, sometimes their states denied relations and POWs spent years in GULAG (fate of several still do not fully known). No better was situation on land and sea. East Soviet borders was also under constant pressure, once led to US airstrike at soviet airfield under Vladivostok during Korea war. Only after 1962 crisis (with considering increasing losses and borders fortification) the frequency of border violations begins decrease.
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