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paratmar

Rep: 22.8
votes: 3


PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2022 5:03 am Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

I was thinking that for complete realism in the Close Combat Series there are not enough non-combatants - civilians, roaming the map like surrendered soldiers. Is it possible to do it as a mod? After all, most of them remained in the cities. For example, in Hamburg, about 150-200,000 inhabitants were killed and wounded in one air raid.
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Bungarra

Rep: 129
votes: 5


PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2022 11:23 am Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

Unfortunately Paratmar it is the present and not the past...

And your reference to Nagasaki and Hiroshma is no different to Putin.... fingers on buttons....

Like a naughty school boy... if I don't get my way....

Give the fucker an ice cream might calm his maniacal tendencies down....

Nah only kidding.... his brains fucked... another despot....   more innocent victims...

makes covid look good..


You know if you don't live it.... You can't give it.
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JFFulcrum

Rep: 64.7


PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2022 11:56 am Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

Quote:
One crazy Ukrainian guy jumped on top of Russian recon vehicle holding Ukrainian flag with no weapons.

And was not immediately shot dead. Was that possible in Iraq or Afghanistan with NATO troops?

My personal opinion:
1. The conflict is likely for months
2. It will proceed in Balkan/Syria/Libya style: Russia will squeeze out toothpaste from east to west
3. Cities will likely be under siege - as was Sarajevo, Aleppo . Ukrainian side will likely hold cities population as shield and switch to more terrorists/partisans-like methods of war. Population will receive much of suffering and will accept any fate/regime at some point.
4. Likely one-third of population will fled to west - expect around 10 mil refugees. Will see, how well EU will deal with it, and how much help will receive from big friends overseas - will it be 100K refugees accepted, or not even that?
5. There will be like three governments of Ukraine: one pro-Russian puppet (Yanukovich mummy was already unpacked at 8 March), one government-in-exile, and one or more 'governments' inside territories uncontrolled by Russia. Zelensky unlikely will be in any of them, MIA somewhere ('highly likely' claimed killed by russian saboteurs). In many regions there will be no state and law at all.
6. The foreign involvement will increase. NATO will not step in by itself, there will be Kerzon-Pilsudsky-Bzezinsky styled eastern Europe alliance created, that will set his safe zone(s) in west of Ukraine. Expect limited no-fly zone over the Lviv.
7. The progress for all sides will depend on situation over Taiwan.
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mooxe

Rep: 209.8
votes: 25


PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2022 1:27 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

JFFulcrum wrote (View Post):
Quote:
One crazy Ukrainian guy jumped on top of Russian recon vehicle holding Ukrainian flag with no weapons.

And was not immediately shot dead. Was that possible in Iraq or Afghanistan with NATO troops?

My personal opinion:
1. The conflict is likely for months
2. It will proceed in Balkan/Syria/Libya style: Russia will squeeze out toothpaste from east to west
3. Cities will likely be under siege - as was Sarajevo, Aleppo . Ukrainian side will likely hold cities population as shield and switch to more terrorists/partisans-like methods of war. Population will receive much of suffering and will accept any fate/regime at some point.
4. Likely one-third of population will fled to west - expect around 10 mil refugees. Will see, how well EU will deal with it, and how much help will receive from big friends overseas - will it be 100K refugees accepted, or not even that?
5. There will be like three governments of Ukraine: one pro-Russian puppet (Yanukovich mummy was already unpacked at 8 March), one government-in-exile, and one or more 'governments' inside territories uncontrolled by Russia. Zelensky unlikely will be in any of them, MIA somewhere ('highly likely' claimed killed by russian saboteurs). In many regions there will be no state and law at all.
6. The foreign involvement will increase. NATO will not step in by itself, there will be Kerzon-Pilsudsky-Bzezinsky styled eastern Europe alliance created, that will set his safe zone(s) in west of Ukraine. Expect limited no-fly zone over the Lviv.
7. The progress for all sides will depend on situation over Taiwan.


A realistic outlook.

10mil refugees I think is too much for the rest of Europe to handle. Eventually countries will stop accepting if the number approaches your prediction. Is there at least 10mil Ukrainians who want to leave a war? Most likely so.


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mooxe

Rep: 209.8
votes: 25


PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2022 1:40 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

paratmar wrote (View Post):
mooxe wrote (View Post):
Reuters saying 2 million refugees now.

Could it be the precision guided grad rocket bombardments targeting 50km/sq?

Like Hirosima and Nagasaky?


This is whataboutism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism


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dj

Rep: 142.2
votes: 8


PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2022 4:28 am Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

JFFulcrum wrote (View Post):
Quote:
One crazy Ukrainian guy jumped on top of Russian recon vehicle holding Ukrainian flag with no weapons.

And was not immediately shot dead. Was that possible in Iraq or Afghanistan with NATO troops?

...The progress for all sides will depend on situation over Taiwan.


Key words "not immediately" shot dead. Only reason why is because he only had Flag, no weapons.  Plus the Russians had all their hatches closed and probably didn't even see him initially.  Probably he was shot later.
Many civilians unarmed I assume because Ukraine defense forces ran out of weapons / ammo / no training...but they are brave and defiant.  They approach outnumbered Russian infantry whom fire warning shots, one man shot in leg for defiance of Russian soldiers.  One video I saw only 3 Russians outnumbered by large group of unarmed civilians, fired warning shots but still civilians kept getting too close so they retreated.

Because Russian infantry squads take no pleasure in killing unarmed women, children, old men.  It is demoralizing and creates trauma.  Also if they shoot and kill, it will be like American Revolution martyrs...when British troops in similar situation shot and killed Yankee protesters.  This only made American Revolution more determined to defeat the mother country.

Russian artillery and aircraft strikes not so forgiving.  Video I have seen today of strike on Hospital, many children injured, one very pregnant woman unfortunately was bleeding taken away on stretcher.
According to the United Nations, 495 Ukrainian civilians have been killed including 38 children.  One child died of lack of water.

Yes China is likely going to exploit this situation.  Many are expecting them to invade Taiwan while world is focused on Ukraine.  Also China is said to be collaborating with Russian on anti-Democratic Disinformation campaigns but that is nothing new.
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dj

Rep: 142.2
votes: 8


PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2022 4:37 am Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

And yes Putin already planning or bringing back puppet Victor for Donbas or whatever else they can keep.  Did you know Mannafort whom was recently released from jail trained him?  That's why Russia paid him all that money to prep Yanukovych and train him to be better puppet.
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paratmar

Rep: 22.8
votes: 3


PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2022 5:29 am Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

The Russians bombed the air defenses and airfields on the very first day. But they did not touch the barracks and field camps with soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Having thus missed the opportunity of an almost bloodless victory, destroying tens of thousands of soldiers with missile strikes.
Will more Russian soldiers die from this? Alas, yes. But the Russian army did not go for the total destruction of Ukrainians. Although the resources were and are.
I think that counteraction in the infosphere, counter-propaganda is absolutely necessary. But for every such video, I always have a question - where is the guarantee that it was not brought there 5 minutes ago by the film crew. From any side of conflict.
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paratmar

Rep: 22.8
votes: 3


PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2022 11:13 am Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

And did your know  about it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0hZsd0HrVI&ab_channel=basedjamsztv
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mooxe

Rep: 209.8
votes: 25


PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2022 2:21 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

paratmar wrote (View Post):
missed the opportunity of an almost bloodless victory, destroying tens of thousands of soldiers with missile strikes.


We didn't bomb the hospital.

Ok we bombed the hospital.

We didn't use conscripts.

Ok we did use some conscripts.


As this war carries on into the third week. As more videos come out.... the entire nyet/whataboutism/doubt defense gets more and more ridiculous.

There's a massive war going on right next to you paratmar.


Come and see.


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paratmar

Rep: 22.8
votes: 3


PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2022 6:16 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

mooxe wrote (View Post):
paratmar wrote (View Post):
missed the opportunity of an almost bloodless victory, destroying tens of thousands of soldiers with missile strikes.


We didn't bomb the hospital.

Ok we bombed the hospital.

We didn't use conscripts.

Ok we did use some conscripts.


As this war carries on into the third week. As more videos come out.... the entire nyet/whataboutism/doubt defense gets more and more ridiculous.

There's a massive war going on right next to you paratmar.


Come and see.

Ok, a la guerre, comme a la guerre
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JFFulcrum

Rep: 64.7


PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 7:51 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

Quote:
Probably he was shot later.

No reports that anyone was shot at that protest.

Quote:
We didn't bomb the hospital.

Ok we bombed the hospital.


Hospital is a questionable part. Take a look at Euronews video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oRMwoyM2Og

1. First 3 seconds: no damages on adjoined buildings. BTW, looks like hospital have place inside a cluster of multistore buildings. Pilots of FBs should be the aces, and did a dangerous dive to hit ONLY hospital.
2. The building looks severe damaged. But saved ones looks clean, with clean clothes and faces. Compare with shots from 9/11...
3. What the man on 0:12 f**** do? What is that shit? Why the bandage green? It it a proper way for handling wounded to head? Why he lookin into camera, not to victim receiving treatment?
4. We seen cars around burning, but no flames in building. Same on other video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oRMwoyM2Og . I can also see no shrapnel effects on walls.
5. 0:50 The damaged building lacks windows at all. But next building have all windows intact. How quick in ukrainian glaziers...


Just for fun: today confirmed involvement of volunteers from Syria
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JFFulcrum

Rep: 64.7


PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 7:58 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

0:12 and he is in helmet obscuring vision...
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pvt_Grunt

Rep: 91.6
votes: 5


PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2022 1:18 am Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

JFFulcrum wrote (View Post):

Hospital is a questionable part. Take a look at Euronews video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oRMwoyM2Og

1. First 3 seconds: no damages on adjoined buildings. BTW, looks like hospital have place inside a cluster of multistore buildings. Pilots of FBs should be the aces, and did a dangerous dive to hit ONLY hospital.
2. The building looks severe damaged. But saved ones looks clean, with clean clothes and faces. Compare with shots from 9/11...
3. What the man on 0:12 f**** do? What is that shit? Why the bandage green? It it a proper way for handling wounded to head? Why he lookin into camera, not to victim receiving treatment?
4. We seen cars around burning, but no flames in building. Same on other video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oRMwoyM2Og . I can also see no shrapnel effects on walls.
5. 0:50 The damaged building lacks windows at all. But next building have all windows intact. How quick in ukrainian glaziers...

Just for fun: today confirmed involvement of volunteers from Syria


I have watched the videos and I disagree with your assessment.

BUT, here's the point - you are still fighting an information war like its 2016. The tactic is to repeatedly undermine ALL media until your target's head is spinning so much they get confused.
It worked with Cambridge in 2016, but only because people were unaware. This time its different, why? Because no one is listening to Russian gov propaganda anymore, except Syria, even China is sniffing the wind and sitting on the fence.
People are more media savvy, one false report does not invalidate 100 others. We understand the shortcomings of commercial media.

Russia has already lost the information war, they undermined themselves with repeated blatant lies over too long a time period. Now, like their army, they have been exposed as Paper Tigers.
No one in the West even bothered to check this time, they're all simply bailing out of the free-falling Russian economy.

The US government is one step ahead of yours, they announce what false flag will be used next 2 days in advance!

Now you're all just yelling at clouds.
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paratmar

Rep: 22.8
votes: 3


PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2022 3:51 am Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

pvt_Grunt wrote (View Post):
JFFulcrum wrote (View Post):

Hospital is a questionable part. Take a look at Euronews video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oRMwoyM2Og

1. First 3 seconds: no damages on adjoined buildings. BTW, looks like hospital have place inside a cluster of multistore buildings. Pilots of FBs should be the aces, and did a dangerous dive to hit ONLY hospital.
2. The building looks severe damaged. But saved ones looks clean, with clean clothes and faces. Compare with shots from 9/11...
3. What the man on 0:12 f**** do? What is that shit? Why the bandage green? It it a proper way for handling wounded to head? Why he lookin into camera, not to victim receiving treatment?
4. We seen cars around burning, but no flames in building. Same on other video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oRMwoyM2Og . I can also see no shrapnel effects on walls.
5. 0:50 The damaged building lacks windows at all. But next building have all windows intact. How quick in ukrainian glaziers...

Just for fun: today confirmed involvement of volunteers from Syria


I have watched the videos and I disagree with your assessment.

BUT, here's the point - you are still fighting an information war like its 2016. The tactic is to repeatedly undermine ALL media until your target's head is spinning so much they get confused.
It worked with Cambridge in 2016, but only because people were unaware. This time its different, why? Because no one is listening to Russian gov propaganda anymore, except Syria, even China is sniffing the wind and sitting on the fence.
People are more media savvy, one false report does not invalidate 100 others. We understand the shortcomings of commercial media.

Russia has already lost the information war, they undermined themselves with repeated blatant lies over too long a time period. Now, like their army, they have been exposed as Paper Tigers.
No one in the West even bothered to check this time, they're all simply bailing out of the free-falling Russian economy.

The US government is one step ahead of yours, they announce what false flag will be used next 2 days in advance!

Now you're all just yelling at clouds.

You right, in the information war, the West has no equal, the Empire of Lies is invincible). Personally, I'm more concerned about a real war than a virtual one.
Its look like not a war between Russia and Ukraine, but a war between Russia and the United States on the territory of Ukraine, exactly the same as it was in Syria.
1. The grain market is already very bad.
There will be no sowing season in Ukraine this year.
2. The prices for hydrocarbons, coal, aluminum, titanium are going up and there is no end in sight. The nickel market collapsed, the price soared by 300 percent.
The West itself is ruining the credibility of its financial institutions and principles.
The goal of chess is not to defeat the pawn, but to checkmate the king.
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paratmar

Rep: 22.8
votes: 3


PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2022 5:29 am Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

Close Combat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfRcmJTAouM&ab_channel=WarLeaks-MilitaryBlog
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mooxe

Rep: 209.8
votes: 25


PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2022 5:56 am Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

JFFulcrum wrote (View Post):


Hospital is a questionable part. Take a look at Euronews video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oRMwoyM2Og

1. First 3 seconds: no damages on adjoined buildings. BTW, looks like hospital have place inside a cluster of multistore buildings. Pilots of FBs should be the aces, and did a dangerous dive to hit ONLY hospital.
2. The building looks severe damaged. But saved ones looks clean, with clean clothes and faces. Compare with shots from 9/11...
3. What the man on 0:12 f**** do? What is that shit? Why the bandage green? It it a proper way for handling wounded to head? Why he lookin into camera, not to victim receiving treatment?
4. We seen cars around burning, but no flames in building. Same on other video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oRMwoyM2Og . I can also see no shrapnel effects on walls.
5. 0:50 The damaged building lacks windows at all. But next building have all windows intact. How quick in ukrainian glaziers...



6. The ambulance seems completely undamaged.
7. There are soldiers using the hospital as a safe place.
8. Why did the blue canisters not explode?
9. There's no crater from the impact.

What exactly could have done all this damage in a war zone?


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JFFulcrum

Rep: 64.7


PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2022 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

Quote:
I have watched the videos and I disagree with your assessment

Thanks to the bad Internet, my post was glitched. Here is the video what should be the first: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VYgIcmZyu8

Quote:
BUT, here's the point - you are still fighting an information war like its 2016.

You really think that i am here to fight information war? Here? To some five, may be six folks around in 'The Mess'? On site, which scores are so low, that Alexa rank unable to calculate many metrics?

Quote:
9. There's no crater from the impact.

Also, sorry for inconvenience https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VYgIcmZyu8 . Crater is at 0:21
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paratmar

Rep: 22.8
votes: 3


PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2022 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

Tacker Carlson: We are at war with Russia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PC7DzTRS7A&ab_channel=FoxNews
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dj

Rep: 142.2
votes: 8


PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2022 6:52 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

Putin's disinformation is failing.  He is like mafia dictator, almost every time he speaks it is opposite of what he says.  Did Trump teach him how to be better liar or did he teach Trump?  Probably a combo, every time damaging information is exposed that is factual, it is called fake news.  Do Not Forget what happened in Helsinki...Putin demanded United States to surrender former ambassador Michael McFaul. WTF?  Trump stood silent and enabled him.

Because Putin must lie to his primary audience, the Russian people.  Dictators are always scared of their own people and must lie and deceive them to stay in power.  Nobody believes Russian govt statements outside of Russia that has access to independent free media.  Of course very large segment of Russian population continues to believe the Putin state media.  One Ethnic Russian living in Ukraine called his father whom resides in Russia...his own father did not believe him when his son told him what is happening.  Actually many Russian citizens have relatives living in Ukraine that are being killed, sent to exile or fighting against their mother nation.

Putin's greatest hits:

1. Russia is withdrawing troops from Ukraine border
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/russia-says-its-withdrawing-some-troops-from-ukrainian-border/
 
2.  Russia is not going to invade Ukraine
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/2/9/no-russia-will-not-invade-ukraine
 
3.  Ukraine is committing genocide against ethic Russians...
quite the opposite, Mariupol among other cities are 50% ethnic Russians being killed by their own mother country.  As McFaul said, even Hitler did not kill ethnic Germans (non-Jewish)

4.  United States is conducting chemical weapons program in Ukraine
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/russia-escalates-false-chemical-weapons-claims-us-ukraine/story?id=83366504
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