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Do incapacitations count as a soldier's kills?

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dj

Rep: 157.1
votes: 9


PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2023 4:41 am Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

Exactly no real reason for Russia to be in Ukraine.  I remember....  at the very beginning it was suppose to be to liberate Ukraine from the Nazi's.  Then to liberate Ukraine from Transgenders?  Then I guess Russian propaganda just shifted to hardcore Fascist appeal.   I see the Propaganda posters quite obviously a copy of Nazi Germany techniques.

Meanwhile it appears that Bakmut will be Phyric victor for Wagner all out offensive.  However Russia lost 130 tanks at Vuledhar very costly defeat after failed attack.  It appears Russia made bad mistakes with little or no infantry support made easy targets for ambush.  Can't understand what Russia is doing, still appears to serious issues with dysfunctional command and Putin meddling creating a climate of fear in leadership.

https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-battle-tactic-failed-bucha-vuhledar-loses-critical-tanks-2023-3?op=1
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dj

Rep: 157.1
votes: 9


PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2023 4:58 am Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

Allegedly Ukraine is striking deeper into Russian territory now getting close to Moscow even.  Looks like very minimal damage.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-attacks-drones-63b875b1acf0e65b469af4e49b96c844
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Berger

Rep: 28.4
votes: 4


PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2023 10:26 am Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

Quote:
Meanwhile it appears that Bakmut will be Phyric victor for Wagner all out offensive.  However Russia lost 130 tanks at Vuledhar very costly defeat after failed attack.  It appears Russia made bad mistakes with little or no infantry support made easy targets for ambush.  Can't understand what Russia is doing, still appears to serious issues with dysfunctional command and Putin meddling creating a climate of fear in leadership.


here's some insight:

Russo-Ukrainian War: Schrodinger’s Offensive
A ramble about force design, Moldova, and a fortress on the steppe

https://bigserge.substack.com/p/russo-ukrainian-war-schrodingers
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dj

Rep: 157.1
votes: 9


PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2023 3:59 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

History repeats itself yet again...

https://news.yahoo.com/spring-thaw-could-ukraine-distinct-171025455.html
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mooxe

Rep: 221.1
votes: 25


PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2023 10:46 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

Lavrov in an interview recently mentioned the Ukraine started this war against Russia...


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paratmar

Rep: 34
votes: 3


PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 1:58 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

Interesting first-person combat - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnXBQhRJ72o&t=223s&ab_channel=rusvesna.su1945
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mooxe

Rep: 221.1
votes: 25


PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 10:00 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

How Russia "liberates."

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-entertainment-96dc8bf5ea5338e5f5d77c00f5706394



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paratmar

Rep: 34
votes: 3


PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2023 5:24 am Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

Still far from true professionals - https://www.history.com/news/dresden-bombing-wwii-allies https://thepostmortempost.wordpress.com/2015/03/27/the-bombing-of-guernica/ https://www.atomicarchive.com/history/atomic-bombing/hiroshima/page-11.html https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/23/raqqa-ruins-bombing


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mooxe

Rep: 221.1
votes: 25


PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2023 5:19 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

So this means its ok Russia is destroying cities in the Ukraine? I don't see your point, please make it.


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paratmar

Rep: 34
votes: 3


PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2023 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

Personally, I am for all the good against all the bad))). The Western style of behavior (take care of your people, do not be shy in the means used if necessary - "Whoever is successful, he is loved by the Lord") impresses me and therefore I consider it correct to use it in the actions of my State.
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dj

Rep: 157.1
votes: 9


PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2023 6:27 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

If you want to go there Paratmar, the "Bad" guys in WW2 invaded sovereign nations for no reason other than lies, greed and ethnic cleansing.  Using your interpretation of "Good" vs "Bad" the Fascist Imperial State of Putin's Russia had already established itself as "Bad" in WW2 era terms by invading a free Independent nation that wanted to separate from Soviet Union over 30 years ago.  Technically Ukraine had wanted independence Russia 100+ years ago after another Dictator starved millions stealing their food.
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mooxe

Rep: 221.1
votes: 25


PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2023 6:45 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

Paratmar who avoids media, trusts nobody, draws his own conclusions from YouTube and telegram yet his views align 100% with those of the state. Purely a coincidence.


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dj

Rep: 157.1
votes: 9


PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2023 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

JFFulcrum wrote (View Post):

Quote:
As soon as the very modest tiny American presence leaves, ISIS will immediately return and stir up trouble again.

US presence helps against ISIS uprisings in Sinai, Egypt? In Philippines?

Quote:
If you mean Gorbachev leaving Afganistan and the Berlin Wall, those were foregone conclusions way too expensive Soviet Union almost bankrupt.

Only if ignore direct relations between territorial control and economy. If you shrink territorial control, your economy will shrink in proportion, drowning into crisis even more. All empires got that lessons. You can trade direct control to something less control, but Gorbachev (and Yeltsin) just given up. Dumbness, cowardness, or acting as enemy agents - not much to care about.

Quote:
And I have no idea what you think Yeltsin gave up.  There was no more Soviet "Union" any longer.  Like if USA breaks up in future, can not call it "United" any longer.  The states that wanted to break up had the right to be independent and there was nothing Yeltsin could have done, zero leverage no power.

Another lesson: French colonial empire in Afrika. Someone may be surprised, but it start really fall only in last decade, despite all the 'independencies'.


Not remotely close to same situation.  In Iraq, ISIS had very successful operation capturing large sections of territory.  Also do you realize that was the literal state of the Caliphate theocratic rule?  They wanted to establish itself there in Syria and Iraq.  Not in Egypt nor Philippines.  And you're conflating civil wars.  Egypt government forces easily in control of situation against insurrection.  Same in Phillipines for many decades minority muslim separatists been fighting government forces without success.  They are a tiny minority that has no hope of ever winning control of Phillipines.

Gorbachev had shit sandwich. if you're saying he should have just let the Soviet peoples continue to run out of food to continue unpopular military occupation of East Europe, not sustainable.  Moreover the Warsaw Pact never had consensus it was always a lie.  Eventually there would be more uprisings and attempts to fight Soviet invaders from their lands.  Either through peaceful protests like in Poland or continuing to flee like the Berlin Wall.  Soviets created a giant Prison system nobody wanted to be in outside of Russia.  Even within Soviet Union many defections to the West.  Like now...an estimated 1 million Russians have fled since the invasion of Ukraine.

Didn't hear any specific answer regarding what Yeltsin "surrendered" to the West.  Care to elaborate?  France actually played their cards right.  African former colonies still were independent...but wanted to keep the benefits of strong trade with France, some limited flexibility for immigration or travel and financial assistance.  Something Russia would have benefited from likewise instead of terrorizing its former Republics or forcing Puppet rulers against their will.
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paratmar

Rep: 34
votes: 3


PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2023 7:26 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

mooxe wrote (View Post):
Paratmar who avoids media, trusts nobody, draws his own conclusions from YouTube and telegram yet his views align 100% with those of the state. Purely a coincidence.

Maybe it's because my state is finally starting to act in the way that I think is right for the future of my state. There is no universal "good" and "bad". To each his own). If I was born, for example, in Canada, I would condemn Russia, as it breaks the familiar and comfortable world. Therefore, I have no questions and claims to those who condemn Russia, everyone acts in their own interests).
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mooxe

Rep: 221.1
votes: 25


PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2023 8:28 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

Freedom and life, these are both universally "good" which are both being taken away in Ukraine.

Two things we can learn about you today paratmar;

1) You have realized parallels of Russia's invasion to WW2.
2) You've taken off your shroud of hypocrisy and what-about-ism defence and shown you blindy support the state in spite of hundreds of thousands of your own countrymen dieing.


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Last edited by mooxe on Sun Mar 05, 2023 8:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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dj

Rep: 157.1
votes: 9


PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2023 8:49 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

paratmar wrote (View Post):
mooxe wrote (View Post):
Paratmar who avoids media, trusts nobody, draws his own conclusions from YouTube and telegram yet his views align 100% with those of the state. Purely a coincidence.

Maybe it's because my state is finally starting to act in the way that I think is right for the future of my state. There is no universal "good" and "bad". To each his own). If I was born, for example, in Canada, I would condemn Russia, as it breaks the familiar and comfortable world. Therefore, I have no questions and claims to those who condemn Russia, everyone acts in their own interests).


Please consider the rich irony in your perception. I get it...you feel Russia is the victim and like the Old Soviet era talking points everything is the West's fault and we are wicked and "bad".  And only the Russian state going back on the offensive re-capturing the old glory days of Soviet Union is "good".  When in reality, Russia has been a declining power for many many years...even before the fall of Soviet Union.  Declining population, declining military power and especially declining economically.  And the vast disparity in GDP of USA / European Union VS Russia / Iran / China.  Even with all of China as alliance, the EU and USA have almost 3x the economic power.

And consider this...that YouTube pro-war Russian propaganda channel is running on American-owned company.  This very technology we communicate on, founded by American technology.  The Smartphone I assume you own, also invented by American technology company.  The Servers you run your websites on in Russia, also developed by American technology company.  If the West is allegedly so "bad", why does Russia use all of products and technology?  Is that not going against the very ideology the Putin State finds such a threat to the Russian peoples?
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paratmar

Rep: 34
votes: 3


PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 4:50 am Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

Gentlemen, as I have repeatedly said, it makes no sense for us to discuss, we have grown up and live in different worlds  .... for now). You are trying to convince everyone that there is a universal "black" and "white" and you are on the side of the whites))). And I know that this is a utopia and I do not condemn or convince anyone. Time will put everything in its place, just be patient and watch. All the best).
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mooxe

Rep: 221.1
votes: 25


PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 5:22 pm Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

paratmar wrote (View Post):
Gentlemen, as I have repeatedly said, it makes no sense for us to discuss, we have grown up and live in different worlds  .... for now). You are trying to convince everyone that there is a universal "black" and "white" and you are on the side of the whites))). And I know that this is a utopia and I do not condemn or convince anyone. Time will put everything in its place, just be patient and watch. All the best).


The reasons the war was started by Russia is not black and white.

The result of the reason Russia went to war is violence, pain, death and destruction which are black and white, these are universally bad.

Justify the violence, pain, death and destruction in your own words. No matter what world we are from these are the most basic things we both understand.


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dj

Rep: 157.1
votes: 9


PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2023 6:22 am Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

paratmar wrote (View Post):
Gentlemen, as I have repeatedly said, it makes no sense for us to discuss, we have grown up and live in different worlds  .... for now). You are trying to convince everyone that there is a universal "black" and "white" and you are on the side of the whites))). And I know that this is a utopia and I do not condemn or convince anyone. Time will put everything in its place, just be patient and watch. All the best).


This is very subjective opinion, not based in fact of the situation.  Maybe only 50% of Russians share your viewpoint.  The other half like Navalny and millions of other Russian peoples do not share your perception.  I like Navalny because his focus is on solution and exposing corruption.  But I understand it is dangerous and even illegal to make anti-Putin statements. 1 million Russian peoples have fled the country since the war began.
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paratmar

Rep: 34
votes: 3


PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2023 7:19 am Post subject: Re: War in Ukraine? Reply with quote

As I said above, Russia is still far from real military professionals, but I see that we  cope with the lessons of the “Master of War and Deception” (Western culture). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmmPHvlbdwI&ab_channel=IllinoisChannelTV
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