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Close Combat Series -> Kharkov

#1: TLD Kharkov Mod Screenshots Author: Drizzt,

Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:47 am
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Hi to all, waiting TLD Kharkov mod, for now you can see some pictures of it into Kharkov album in TLD section of combat camera.
Here the link: http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=thumbnails&album=234

Drizzt

Edit: Battlegroup forcepool pictures you can see there come from version 2.0 (so they aren't adjourned: in v 2.2 some teams inside them have been changed and/or reworked).

Last edited by Drizzt on Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:54 am; edited 3 times in total

#2: Re: TLD Kharkov Mod Screenshots Author: DoktorPaj, Location: Norrköping

Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:27 pm
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Looking great! Thank you for your work.

#3: Re: TLD Kharkov Mod Screenshots Author: Pzt_Kanov, Location: México

Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:22 pm
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That strat map is awesome very well done and detailed. The small strat map image when you select a map (the one with the red circle)
is a nice touch with the historic offensive image attached.

Thanks for all this effort Drizzt, I'm itching to play this!

#4: Re: TLD Kharkov Mod Screenshots Author: Dima,

Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:41 pm
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Hi Drizzt,

no M42 in 1942.

#5: Re: TLD Kharkov Mod Screenshots Author: Drizzt,

Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:52 pm
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to Dima: thanks for reporting, do you speak about a main screen weapon (two years ago I have reworked the OT 34 to be no more an OT 34 and accidentally also one soldier weapon near it: probably not a good result about weapon), or maybe the mg team (M42 = MG42?) image of the panzer division? From time to time in these years I have added/changed some team images. Or something else? Please be more clear and I will correct.

to Doktor Paj and Pzt kanov: thanks for the comments!

Drizzt

#6: Re: TLD Kharkov Mod Screenshots Author: Dima,

Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:43 pm
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Quote:

to Dima: thanks for reporting, do you speak about a main screen weapon (two years ago I have reworked the OT 34 to be no more an OT 34 and accidentally also one soldier weapon near it: probably not a good result about weapon), or maybe the mg team (M42 = MG42?) image of the panzer division? From time to time in these years I have added/changed some team images. Or something else? Please be more clear and I will correct.

I meant ATG - 45mm obr.42 (M42) - it wasn't available that time.

#7: Re: TLD Kharkov Mod Screenshots Author: Drizzt,

Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:58 pm
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Thanks, now is clear: the obr. 42 you can see it's a 76.2mm (Zis3) medium anti tank gun: the only 45mm that I have in the mod it's the obr.37. When I say "you can see" I mean in the mod, I don't pretend to be 100% sure that the team image is corrected, if you think that the team image is not corrected I will change it (I have trust in your valutation).

Drizzt

Edit: I have noticed only now that there isn't the image of the obr. 42 in starting teams. Anyway, if you think that the 76.2mm was not available I will change it.

#8: Re: TLD Kharkov Mod Screenshots Author: dgfred, Location: N.C., USA

Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:24 pm
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Looks great... nice work Cool

#9: Re: TLD Kharkov Mod Screenshots Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:56 am
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The mini strat map or red circle map is a cool idea.

#10: Re: TLD Kharkov Mod Screenshots Author: Dima,

Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:23 am
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Quote:

Thanks, now is clear: the obr. 42 you can see it's a 76.2mm (Zis3) medium anti tank gun: the only 45mm that I have in the mod it's the obr.37. When I say "you can see" I mean in the mod, I don't pretend to be 100% sure that the team image is corrected, if you think that the team image is not corrected I will change it (I have trust in your valutation).

ah, ok, thing is that the only PTO (ATG) obr.42 in RA was 45mm M42.
ZIS-3 was a DP (divisional gun) obr.42 and as it was only put in mass production in February 1942 I don't think there should be many of them available in Kharkov time.
F-22USV (DP obr.39) was the main DP available to RA that time with production of more than 1200 pcs per month.

and there should be only 1 SMG per team maximum that time with most of teams with no SMG.
no Avtomatchiki either. Only 27 SMG per battalion that time.

and don't forget that in Spring 1942 the RA squad had 10men, same as German infantry squad while f.e. German PzGr squad had 12men and Schutzen(mot) squad had 14men.

#11: Re: TLD Kharkov Mod Screenshots Author: Drizzt,

Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:00 am
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to Dima: Thanks, about DP 0br. 39 - 42 I will correct it. Ok about Avtomatchiki, and I can easily correct also the number of submachineguns (but also for platoon leader squad?)

Standard RA squad has already ten men in the mod. About germans.. maybe I must change another time reinforcement system: only the 9 russian rifle divisions deployed in south sector can reinforce (so not all russian rifle divisions as I have planned before), I do in this way just because russian teams in forcepools had already more men than germans. if I set all stardard german rifle teams to 10 (12 and 14 is impossible but I’m sure you know it) maybe is better restored 1 reinforce possibility for all russian rifle divisions (for the historical numeric proportions of the forces in the battle). I will see..

Questions: I have included in the mod very few KV-I tanks with a zis-5 gun: do you think the’re available (even if few) in mod timeline?
Marder II: very recently I have read that only 14th panzer division had very few of them (the first available), but actually in the mod there are some of them in every divisional panzer abtl. (of infantry divisions). Should I suppose that they were not available right? I mean: you exclude that some of them was in infantry divisions?

Drizzt

#12: Re: TLD Kharkov Mod Screenshots Author: Dima,

Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:26 pm
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Quote:

to Dima: Thanks, about DP 0br. 39 - 42 I will correct it. Ok about Avtomatchiki, and I can easily correct also the number of submachineguns (but also for platoon leader squad?)

according to the TOE no SMG in Battalion except 1 per rifle squad.

Quote:

Standard RA squad has already ten men in the mod. About germans.. maybe I must change another time reinforcement system: only the 9 russian rifle divisions deployed in south sector can reinforce (so not all russian rifle divisions as I have planned before), I do in this way just because russian teams in forcepools had already more men than germans. if I set all stardard german rifle teams to 10 (12 and 14 is impossible but I’m sure you know it) maybe is better restored 1 reinforce possibility for all russian rifle divisions (for the historical numeric proportions of the forces in the battle). I will see..

you can always split 12-14men sections in smaller ones Smile

Quote:

tions: I have included in the mod very few KV-I tanks with a zis-5 gun: do you think the’re available (even if few) in mod timeline?

yes, i think most of KVs should be with ZIS-5 that time.

#13: Re: TLD Kharkov Mod Screenshots Author: Drizzt,

Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:26 pm
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to Dima: ok for all and thanks, only one thing about number of teams: splitting squad is good for number of teams in forcepools (about reinforcement problem etc.) but in tactical maps can create (in my opinion) problems: every squad splitted needs another team slot (we don't have it) to really simulate this thing in CC battles (it' a point view, I hope it'is clear what I want to say). Maybe is better set panzergrenadiere with 10 soldiers: after all they will enconter full russian rifle squads. Of course another solution can be to split also russian rifle squads (even if theoretically not necessary, but just to balance german splitted squad). I will see, but I think I will set 10 soldiers for all standard german rifle squads.

Drizzt

#14: Re: TLD Kharkov Mod Screenshots Author: Dima,

Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:48 pm
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I remembered wrong, 11men per squad for RA that time Smile

.

It's all up to you, but some info to think about:

RA 11men squad was trained to act 3(LMG)+8(Rifle).
German infantry 10men squad was trained to act as a full 10men(LMG).
German PzGren (gp) 12men squad was trained to act as 5(LMG)+5(LMG)+2(staying with HT).
German PzGren(mot) 14men squad was trained to act as 6(LMG)+6(LMG)+2(staying with 2 trucks).

#15: Re: TLD Kharkov Mod Screenshots Author: Drizzt,

Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:59 pm
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Very interesting Dima. No motorized divisions in Kharkov mod (one problem less). The two soldiers in HT and trucks in my opinion in CC don't count. So:
I will port the various schutzen and panzergreadiere to 10 men. And the russian teams will remain with 10 men (one men less) but I will delete the difference about teams of 10 men with lmg and teams of 10 men without lmg (for now in the mod they are in this way).

Do you know something about ersatztrupp and nov. strelki (reserve rifle squad) number of soldiers?

Drizzt

#16: Re: TLD Kharkov Mod Screenshots Author: Dima,

Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:09 pm
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Quote:

No motorized divisions in Kharkov mod (one problem less).

in MID there were Shuetzen (mot) ;)

As the Germans could never meet a demand in HTs the bulk of PzGrens were carried in trucks hence called PzGren(mot) and had 14men squads.
The few which were carried in HTs were called PzGrens(gp) and had 12men squads.

Quote:

Do you know something about ersatztrupp and nov. strelki (reserve rifle squad) number of soldiers?

obviously same as standard squads Smile

#17: Re: TLD Kharkov Mod Screenshots Author: Drizzt,

Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:28 pm
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My fault, I have done confusion between Pzgrens in trucks and the mot. schutzen (but I know that mot. schutzen were in MID, it's just confusion).
Ok for the reserve infantry, and thanks again.

Drizzt

#18: Re: TLD Kharkov Mod Screenshots Author: Dima,

Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:15 pm
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Your're welcome mate.
If you have some doubts or questions regarding your mod, just shoot Smile

#19: Re: TLD Kharkov Mod Screenshots Author: Dima,

Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:31 pm
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Drizzt,

another puzzle for you :)

RA AP shells were tested against RH armor and when the german tanks fielded FH armor, the penetration dropped down to approximately 35%
so let's say 76mm ZIS-5 could deal 89mm@100m@90deg according to tables so against german FH armor it will be around 65mm penetration Smile

.
and now we recall that they drastically lacked AP shells that time (means no or very few APs for DPs) so a main AT shell is HE and cannister with 30mm penetration - no wonder PzDs could make a hell to RA formations till like late 1942 (guess why 80mm frontal appeared on the german tanks in late 1942).

how can a RA player fight the germans tanks in CC?!

how one can simulate this all in CC? :)

(sorry, iam drunk, iik)

#20: Re: TLD Kharkov Mod Screenshots Author: Drizzt,

Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:29 am
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It's a real puzzle Dima (if I have understood well: RH - FH = H it's hull, right? But R.. Russian? and F?): someone in CC may choose to "adapt" the RA AP sheel numeric valors to the facts you describe, but I don't know if can be a real good thing, and surely I will not do it. Anyway it's very interesting what you have described. You have a real full knowledge about WW2 weapons.

Drizzt

Close Combat Series -> Kharkov

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