TLD Kharkov Mod bugs report and suggestions
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Close Combat Series -> Kharkov
#61: Re: TLD Kharkov Mod bugs report and suggestions Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:49 pm
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BTD-Editor v1.09 will not work for CC5 as it requires stratmap.txt (WAR/TLD & LSA are listed as tested) but it does allow to create/edit/view strat areas/data.
#62: Re: TLD Kharkov Mod bugs report and suggestions Author: Drizzt,  PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:13 am
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Many thanks for this full info Tejszd: About it I can say that I know the various options of rtb tool, and BED9 works exactly as I imagined; what I don't knew it's the stratmap munger tool: where can I find it? It's not the old stratedit tool right?

Drizzt
#63: Re: TLD Kharkov Mod bugs report and suggestions Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:26 am
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Yes, the actual file name for Stratmap Munger is StratEdit5.exe....
#64: Re: TLD Kharkov Mod bugs report and suggestions Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:32 am
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Finished the Axis campaign on the 15th @ 11 AM, really nice time playing it. Used your vet for Axis and green for Ruskie settings as recommended. Will wait for version 2.2 to switch sides since am pretty sure that one will take longer and have feeling it's maybe coming out soon Drizzt?

Absolutely no more crashes after doing all those repairs.
#65: Re: TLD Kharkov Mod bugs report and suggestions Author: Drizzt,  PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:15 pm
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To John Silver: excellent that you have had no more crash problems. With “15th” you mean 15th day (26 May 1942) not 15 May right? You have obtained a total victory? (I ask for the score system I have set: even if I can’t know your progress in every single day I’m anyway curious).
For the truth, I have recommended line vs line but your settings are anyway good: the main difference with line vs line it’s the number of teams lost by both sides after have been forced to disband (especially about encircled BGs): they are rules of the org game and more high difficulty level means more teams lost.
For now v 2.2 it’s fully savegame compatible with v 2.1, but some map adjustments are not present in the savegame files: the game save map elements changes for next battles (example: hills full of shellholes due to mortar support) so a correction like a tree element added where there was a shadow tree painted it’s not visible in savegame files. Having said that, only 2-3 Btd files have been deeply reworked and this fact has only caused a “weird deployment” in the first battle (only the first) in already contested (if any) maps (of course only the maps with the btd file modified). Also changes in data are fully compatible: in the savegame only all 15 starting teams already present are not totally covered by the changes (you can change them in forcepools or wait that the game replaced them). Anyway, if you prefer to wait for a more “clean” campaign I understand: I think to release v 2.2 in two weeks or so.

To Tejszd: Ok, to be honest I have used stratedit many years ago (2004 or 2005: seems to me a geological era ago, I was yet at university) so I don’t remember all its options and I need to reinstall it in an old OS (32 bit) to make it work properly. Anyway, in the main folder I can see two dos .exe files named “strat” and “BTDEdit” (the second one for BTD files) and their respective links to run under windows: I mean that I don’t have “StratEdit5”.exe file in main folder: maybe it’s a more new version? If yes, where can I find it?

Drizzt
#66: Re: TLD Kharkov Mod bugs report and suggestions Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:14 am
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My mistake on the wrong settings Drizzt, thought read here (or somewhere) to use those Vet/green.

I already deleted the Save files, except the last 2 and will gladly send them if you like. They are 2 different maps, both Russian supply hexes if you want them, you are very welcome to them and can see the date as the 15th of may.. i rarely used any armor (other than tanks/Stugs with AP shot) and was heavy with AT guns throughout.

A couple of the early-on-the-front-lines infantry units took a beating and wouldn't have lasted a whole lot longer at that pace.

Thanks for the great info the campaign and mod will be compatible with version 2.2. Not nearly as good attacking entire maps as partials/full blown assaults of course, but will go ahead and get started now.
#67: Re: TLD Kharkov Mod bugs report and suggestions Author: Drizzt,  PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:14 am
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Thanks for the offer John Silver, but on 15th may I have arrived me too (in past my first tests have been done with germans): I thought you had finished it on 26th May, on 15th may it's sure a total victory. You have won only with 6th Army BGs: very good.
I'm playing with russians and I can say that, even if the germans are more weak (until 17th May), they have more big supply depots than russians, some of them in maps strategically important because near to all russian supply routes.
As I have said in another post I'm not a good player because I'm on 17th May and german reinforcements have arrived: I have also lost Izyum map "without fault" because I have set the possibility that Bgs, in movement phase, can be redirected due to chaotic orders (or misunderstarding about them): this possibility it's of 10% from May 15th (to 28th) for the soviets, and it's of 5% from May 17th (to 28th) for the germans.
A small advice: be sure that IA has at least the same amount of your number of tanks when there are tank BGs vs tank BGs (command panzer III don't count beause it's without the main tank gun).

Drizzt
#68: Re: TLD Kharkov Mod bugs report and suggestions Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:49 am
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It's ok Drizzit, i'm not very good either on full fledged attack moves, unless can have room to deploy guns/support units with full effect and starting with a tiny section is very hard with me for at least 1 turn and lose many units. I was almost thrown off the map vs the AI on one of the 1st turns it was so bad already here with the Russians.

After my 1st go around with the Axis? I don't think it was a bad idea to play vet/green. it increased units for the russians and decreased for the germans, making it more difficult for them. Am quite sure playing line/line this time around the russians will have less and the germans more this time, which is fine. Have played other mod campaigns which recommended those settings to even out odds and they generally work out fine.

Will say this.. It took me the entire 15th to clear out the bottom (lower) 5 maps, one of the R/H side supply maps and STILL fighting over the rest. Been an awful long time since played any mod/game at all CC related with the Russians and forgot virtually everything related to their equipment. One thing to go up against it, but another using it and remembering how to best use it's attributes to one's advantage. It's costing me dearly with the get back acquainted with curve.

I can see this campaign ending as it did historically.. or worse.. HAHA
#69: Re: TLD Kharkov Mod bugs report and suggestions Author: salhexe,  PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:33 pm
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I agree with Johnsilver, Playing russian elite vs german recruit its very fun and hard and I think it's a fair compromise for the historical reality.

I consider this setting as a vetmod, a really good job.

I started the GC with the new version, I had no problems except those with heavy mortar and the guns that "wrong facing" after shooting.
#70: Re: TLD Kharkov Mod bugs report and suggestions Author: Drizzt,  PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:45 pm
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To John Silver: I’m glad you are enjoying also using russians. After have created a breach in the first defensive line all will be more simple for russians because IA don’t have the capacity to think to a second defensive line more narrow and it will resist in every map to the last men: this conduct can be smart in the maps that can cut off human player supplies, but it’s not good if applied in every map and russians before the 17th may will have all their Bgs on the ground. Having said this, for sure will not be easy to win: Sometime I have been thrown off from some maps me too (not almost, but literally: german panzer vs russian infantry).
About difficulty level: I have tried another time just to be sure (sometime programmers codify some settings despite users settings but seems not in this case): just because I don’t have set different number of units in forcepools difficulty level, also in the game consequently this thing doesn’t happen (no different number of units with different difficulty levels). Anyway some crucial (and also minor) aspects like number of teams lost after forced to disband are for sure covered by difficulty level (they are org game issues/options).

To Salexe: About “wrong facing issue” I have already speaking about it in this thread: it seems an org game issue (with org game issue I mean: an issue that programmers don’t have taken in consideration because it doesn’t exist in the org game, so arty guns/heavy mortars indirect fire attitude it’s not properly “wrong”, it’s just not taken in consideration and it works as it works).
About difficulty level: the only merit I can take it’s that my work seems solid and “cleaned”, but I don’t have any kind of merit about the IA (I have set it in the right way, without “tricks”). Maybe programmers, on the contrary than in CC5, have set IA smarter considering difficulty levels? Personally I doubt about a thing like this, but if you see all this difference.. Who knows? Maybe it’s really in this way.
About number of teams I have already explained (see “to John Silver” in this post) that I don’t have modified the number of teams towards difficulty levels. Anyway I’m glad you have fun with the mod.

Drizzt

Edit: another thing about IA: towards org game, I have set it in a more aggressive way in campaign.txt file.
#71: Re: TLD Kharkov Mod bugs report and suggestions Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:46 pm
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The wrong facing issue for the heavy mortars is much more far in between once you finally get a team to "Seen Battle" and really good once "experienced" It's survivability, as those teams are like guns and easier to spot than smaller mortars.

Thought would throw this in.. Had a 2 man German flamethrower team sneak behind Russian lines somehow and toast a AT gun of mine (76.2), kill off the crew and the Command unit that was there before finally dispatched those 2....
#72: Re: TLD Kharkov Mod bugs report and suggestions Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:38 am
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Stratedit works on Windows 7 64bit....
#73: Re: TLD Kharkov Mod bugs report and suggestions Author: Drizzt,  PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:45 am
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To John Silver: thanks for reporting, seemed to me also to have noticed this thing but I’m not sure that is only a problem of survivability: maybe the “bugged” aspect and the survivability aspect exist both (anyway I’m not sure).
About flamethrower teams yes.. they have surprised me also: sometime they seem “stealthy” like snipers. There is nothing in settings that I have changed for this result, maybe they were covered behind bush map elements or something similar.

To Tejszd: I’m sure you have reason, I will never discover it because even if the error message give me the hint to check OS version (32 bit - 64 bit), it’s very probable that the problem it’s the absence of the very old Microsoft java virtual machine: I have installed it in my old netbook with XP and I will not install it under win 7.

Drizzt
#74: Re: TLD Kharkov Mod bugs report and suggestions Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:27 pm
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Hi Drizzt,

Something negative finally. It's something could change on my end easy enough with the the super easy number swap in "Campaign" from "1" to "0", but these deployed units showing up in all those previously taken (Axis supply units) spread all over the map is really getting to me. I (as the Russians now) have a choice of have "partisan" German units that I have cut off and defeated, only to show up at supply units have taken and left behind lines un guarded, or use those same Russian units to spear head a Russian attack.

I have now gone back,retaken those same hexes, guarded them and have virtually no units left to attack with. There are still several more German supply hexes spread over the map and they redeploy at some not on the corners/bottom.

I understand the campaign and how it historically was fought/ended and am happy to go about it's inclusion, was going to "run myself dry" by attacking to exhaustion, but not by having my supply lines cut off, which was obvious. Not as bone headed as Stalin, or his General staff.

Think cutting off a few of those hexes, or making them useable for supplying fuel only and not deploy only would work.

I looked at the campaign data and YES it is set properly to "0", but HAVE noticed a unit *actually come back* after being cut off which should not happen when it's set to that. Now.. I don't mind that at all anyway and have played Michael/TT/Selhexe's Vetmod like that several times, it's more fun that way, but WILL mention it to you.
#75: Re: TLD Kharkov Mod bugs report and suggestions Author: Drizzt,  PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:28 pm
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Hi John Silver, it’s all intentional and there are two reasons: the technical reason is that some of the advanced big depots assure the return of many advanced german Bgs (I have set a maximum distance of 3 maps to preserve the historical deployment: Bgs far more than 3 maps from big depots will never return after disband so in create scenario I have “studied” the best solution for this).
The second reason it’s that germans in this way have exactly the advantage that I wanted. Remember that they have many less troops than russians: in a fight 15 teams vs 15 teams, as in CC, normally they are superior, but in a long and exhausting campaign they will lose for sure if they don't "close the game" in a reasonable time. When I say "close the game" I mean to conquer the most part of the stratmap arriving to fight only in big russian depot maps.
The only “regret” it’s that some of these advanced big depots are not in border maps and the reason for this it’s the technical reason already explained.
Yes, playing with russians, you need to let some good Bgs in the maps with these advanced german big depots: russians before 17th May have all Bgs on the ground so it’s not an impossible task.

I’m sorry, but I don’t understand what you wanted to change from 1 to 0: seems to me to have understood that it’s already to 0 (at the end of your post) so for you already right, but I don’t understand which is the option you refer.
Anyway, speaking in general, cut off Bgs forced to disband can come back: org manual says that they will lose 50% of their infantry and all vehicles and tanks, but only if they were also totally unsupplied when forced to disband. If supplied (supplied = with some fuel yet, about ammo I’m not sure), even if cut off (cut off = no possibility of retreat) they will lose less units than when unsupplied (see org manual for all the details). Finally, there is an option in campaign.txt file that can be set to obtain that Bgs never come back after disbanded (but of course I don’t have set it in this way).

Drizzt
#76: Re: TLD Kharkov Mod bugs report and suggestions Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:55 am
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Quote:
I’m sorry, but I don’t understand what you wanted to change from 1 to 0:


My fault on that Drizzit. I started the post above, then decided to open the Capaign.txt while was typing it out real quick and saw it was at "0" instead of at "1" as had thought was going to find it set at.

Thanks on explaining another that ALWAYS forget on.. How supply plays into what units whom are cut off and annihilated come back as. I *thought* when they were out of fuel? They were gone, but that isn't so it seems? Really need to go over some of this, remembered that when they are in "red", or low they lost a bunch of equipment.





Quote:
Finally, there is an option in campaign.txt file that can be set to obtain that Bgs never come back after disbanded (but of course I don’t have set it in this way).


probably just didn't go down far enough, or up. I went straight to Recycle Disbanded BGs section.. I will find it though. 1 of the areas (campaign data) have played with a lot.
#77: Re: TLD Kharkov Mod bugs report and suggestions Author: Drizzt,  PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:36 am
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Hi John Silver, "Recycle Disbanded BGs" it's exactly the option I refered at the end of my last post, I can assure you that has always been set to 1 (1 = return next day): few minutes ago I have checked the .rar of the full v 2.0 and the quick fix 2 to be totally sure (I have checked also patch v 2.1 but there isn't campaign.txt file in this patch).

Drizzt
#78: Re: TLD Kharkov Mod bugs report and suggestions Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:48 pm
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Hi Drizzt,

Am getting confused now on this end. Haven't changed anything in the campaign.txt document as of yet, just went over some of the data, but the one we are mentioning and i referred above is set to "0" in WAR.

Here are both BG's retreat on rout and Recycle disbanded units copy/pasted:

Quote:
# Recycle Disbanded BGs (0 = Never come back, 1 = Return next day)
0
# Locked BGs (0 = unlocked, 1 = locked) Locked = player can not choose teams
0
# BGs retreat on rout (0 = disband on rout, 1 = retreat on rout)
1


I will send, or paste the entire txt if want, but I have not changed anything yet, just been surprised (mildly) by some of the settings changes, such as this one:



Quote:
# Allies suprised (on moves on turn 1) (0 = no, 1 = yes)
1
# Axis suprised (on moves on turn 1) (0 = no, 1 = yes)
0


A initial Russian attack and they are surprised?

Not attacking you here, so please don't misunderstand me. Some of the settings as compared to other campaigns is just a little different.
#79: Re: TLD Kharkov Mod bugs report and suggestions Author: Drizzt,  PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:41 pm
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Hi John Silver, I invite you to extract campaign.txt file from the .rar: recycled Bgs option is set to 1 (not to 0), and the surprised Bgs options have been set exactly to the opposite of what I can read in your last post. Please verify.

Drizzt
#80: Re: TLD Kharkov Mod bugs report and suggestions Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:54 pm
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Oh my... Drizzt.. I apologize 100 times ..

Looked several times to what was gong on.. Thought about it and finally realized was opening the Data/base/campaign.txt file for the *STOCK* game earlier instead of your campaign that's inside the Kharkov folder...

Man am so sorry.. You are indeed entirely correct on the settings and everything is perfectly fine.. No idea what was thinking and knew better than that on my end...

Quote:
# Recycle Disbanded BGs (0 = Never come back, 1 = Return next day)
1
# Locked BGs (0 = unlocked, 1 = locked) Locked = player can not choose teams
0
# BGs retreat on rout (0 = disband on rout, 1 = retreat on rout)
1
# Number of days after arrival that Allied AB BGs are automatically in supply
0
# Number of days after arrival that Axis AB BGs are automatically in supply
0
# Allies suprised (on moves on turn 1) (0 = no, 1 = yes)
0
# Axis suprised (on moves on turn 1) (0 = no, 1 = yes)
1


Anyway... Settings are (as you said all along) absolutely perfect and I humbly apologize (again) for confusing you and myself with all of this.

On the 16th in the campaign and the Germans are in dire need of those reinforcements. The Russian non Guards armored units are in fairly sad shape also. 1 is down to *4* tanks.
Close Combat Series -> Kharkov


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