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#1: Mod Makers & Matrix Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada

Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:48 pm
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Couple points to raise for discussion around mod makers and Matrix.

1) I'm surprised at the reception this game announcement has rec'd as mod makers doing things for Matrix seems to cause a lot debate/outrage in the CC community. Has something changed?

2) What do the different groups/people get/lose out of this joint development?
a) mod maker(s)?
b) Matrix?
c) CC community/game players?

#2: Re: Mod Makers & Matrix Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada

Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:52 pm
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Couple points for 2c

Pros
- it gets a mod done by adding additional incentive and resources

Cons
- game players have to buy the joint development unlike a mod

#3: Re: Mod Makers & Matrix Author: Schmal_Turm,

Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:31 pm
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Well, I for one would have gladly paid for the mods, or at least certain ones. I was overjoyed that these CC fans would take their valuable time (and I am assuming that some of these took quite a bit of time) to come up with such variables to the originals. In my mind anyway, this greatly increased the value of the originals especially when they were offered freely for all to use. My only problem is that many of the mods did not work and after trying a number of fixes many of them still didn't work. But I really appreciated the work done. And your Meuse mod, Tejszd, is still one of my favorites, especially in the TLD version.

I did not appreciate though, hearing that a couple of modders did take what they were working on to the game makers when others were involved also in the work, who then were not compensated.

#4: Re: Mod Makers & Matrix Author: mooxe,

Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:00 pm
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It could of been how the people who ran CSO and a few of thier friends all seemed to of banded together and started working for Matrix. It was like a once independant site had sold out and its site was now a huge funnel of information and talent going to Matrix. Along with that the guys who did start working for Matrix began to use CSO as a sounding board for how great the new products were.

Another way you could look at it.... These Close Combat community insiders finally were in a position to change and update the game using information from thier own audience, and didnt.

#5: Re: Mod Makers & Matrix Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:48 am
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What NEW Mod has been created lately for the re-releases ?

#6: Re: Mod Makers & Matrix Author: DAK_Legion,

Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:18 am
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Bloody tarawa for TLD

#7: Re: Mod Makers & Matrix Author: Pete, Location: Nijmegen, Netherlands

Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:08 am
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Some people might be worried that the mod makers will not be sufficiently compensated for their work and that the profit goes to Matrix alone. Thinking about modding for Matrix I rather like the idea from a modmaker point of view because of the support that should help prevent bugs but I would like a piece of the pie too. In the end it doesnot matter who creates the game if it is solid and bug free.

#8: Re: Mod Makers & Matrix Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:35 am
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I'm surprised at the reception this game announcement has rec'd as mod makers doing things for Matrix seems to cause a lot debate/outrage in the CC community. Has something changed? -Tejszd

Hi,

I looked around at all the Matrix threads for CC recent game(s) anouncements, and I also looked at a few places here at CCS, and I just can't find where this debate or outrage that you mention is occuring.

Is it possible for you to quote some post, or name a previous thread to "ground" the conversation.

Or, do you just want to have a debate (conversation), for your own reasons?

#9: Re: Mod Makers & Matrix Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:47 am
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What do the different groups/people get/lose out of this joint development? -Tejszd

There is no such thing as joint development. Either you are on the Matrix development team (for a game), or you are NOT on the team.

Sometimes a fan site, is founded or devoted to the free exchange of ideas, inclusion, and the elimination of a profit motive.

A game development team (like a Matrix CC game) is devovted to secrecy, exclusion, and whoring the profit motive.

#10: Re: Mod Makers & Matrix Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:58 am
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mod maker(s)? Matrix? CC community/game players? -Tejszd

Confused

Well, I have a really neat WW2 mod. Apart from the fact that it sucks, how come I can't sell my mod at Matrix. Idea

I suggest $ 9.99.

NO WAIT

$ 4.99. Idea

#11: Re: Mod Makers & Matrix Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:13 am
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Pete wrote (View Post):

Thinking about modding for Matrix I rather like the idea from a modmaker point of view because of the support that should help prevent bugs but I would like a piece of the pie too.

Pete wrote (View Post):

In the end it doesnot matter who creates the game if it is solid and bug free.

Hmmm, what Marix Close Combat game do you mean? What Close Combat Matrix game has been solid & bug free?

When you say: “Thinking about moding for Matrix”, does that mean that you’re already doing that or that you have an agreement with matrix, or that you have already decided to mod for matrix?

#12: Re: Mod Makers & Matrix Author: Conrad,

Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:29 am
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What about a fundraise? develop some kind of budget to buy the rights to the engine.

There are probably enough people around here with lot's of talent. It takes some entrepreneurship and a bold step.

#13: Re: Mod Makers & Matrix Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:35 am
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Thinking about modding for Matrix I rather like the idea from a modmaker point of view because of the support that should help prevent bugs but I would like a piece of the pie too. -pete

YA, TEJSZD, How come only you get to mod for Matrix and pie. How come pete can't have a piece. Question

#14: Re: Mod Makers & Matrix Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:44 am
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What about a fundraise? develop some kind of budget to buy the rights to the engine. -Conrad

Except that doesn't solve who gets to mod for pie. Wink

BTW, if you mean the 2d engine, I will buy the rights. But that also, doesn't solve who gets to mod for pie. Razz

So, is it possible for you to direct me to the seller. Question

#15: Re: Mod Makers & Matrix Author: Pete, Location: Nijmegen, Netherlands

Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:14 pm
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Maybe I should have written "thinking about the possibility of mod making for companies such as Matrix". I am only modding for my personal pleasure and I don't consider myself good enough to get seriously involved with Matrix or similar companies.
Anyway, the point I was trying to make is that the mod makers efforts should be sufficiently rewarded.
Who doesn't like pie? Stwa I suppose you are into American Pie? Laughing

#16: Re: Mod Makers & Matrix Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:38 pm
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Who doesn't like pie? Stwa I suppose you are into American Pie? -pete

Oui, je fais comme American pie.

#17: Re: Mod Makers & Matrix Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada

Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:07 pm
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Stwa wrote (View Post):

I looked around at all the Matrix threads for CC recent game(s) anouncements, and I also looked at a few places here at CCS, and I just can't find where this debate or outrage that you mention is occuring.
Is it possible for you to quote some post, or name a previous thread to "ground" the conversation.
Or, do you just want to have a debate (conversation), for your own reasons?

I believe anyone who has been around for a while would acknowledge that there was a lot of debate/outrage and I'm not going to go collect quotes for you. I believe Mooxe's reply acknowledges that there was and your post acknowledges that there isn't now/recently.

Stwa wrote (View Post):

Thinking about modding for Matrix I rather like the idea from a modmaker point of view because of the support that should help prevent bugs but I would like a piece of the pie too. -pete
YA, TEJSZD, How come only you get to mod for Matrix and pie. How come pete can't have a piece. Question

I rec’d a copy of each game that I helped test, nothing more. My interest here is to understand if people’s positions have changed or what is different between then and now. Maybe Buck and Pete should think of doing something with Matrix??? Maybe I should as my mod making ability and time is limited but I would love for Meuse to get 64 maps and strat layer instead of the current 44 plus have all the LSA features but I do not know if I can get there by myself in this lifetime. Having said that like Pete what I have done to date has mainly been for myself and a few others who have a passion for the battle and or tested/worked on the mod.

#18: Re: Mod Makers & Matrix Author: mooxe,

Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:34 pm
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Stwa wrote (View Post):

I looked around at all the Matrix threads for CC recent game(s) anouncements, and I also looked at a few places here at CCS, and I just can't find where this debate or outrage that you mention is occuring.

Is it possible for you to quote some post, or name a previous thread to "ground" the conversation.

I was thinking about this as well. I never found any outrage. Maybe debate is the wrong term. There may have been some debate about it but I don't remember. I was more or less speaking from my own interpretation on how I seen things happen in the past. I think it was frustration from what I mentioned in my first reply. About insiders finally being on the team and not being able to make the changes we all spoke about, or the wrong changes. And most of that frustration was vented on CCS.

I think a lot of the "venting" trainwreck threads disappeared with Reboot (aka Flamethrower) and the CSO site not being active anymore. Time, indifference and people moving away from Close Combat are also big factors.

Anyways I am happy Conrad and Cathartes have asked the membership here for some feedback on Gateway to Caen.

#19: Re: Mod Makers & Matrix Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:54 pm
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I believe anyone who has been around for a while would acknowledge that there was a lot of debate/outrage and I'm not going to go collect quotes for you. I believe Mooxe's reply acknowledges that there was and your post acknowledges that there isn't now/recently. -Tejszd

Ya Ya Ya, you can't collect any quotes, becuase they don't exist. And I don't want to speak for mooxe, but me thinks the stuff he is remembering, was a LOOONG TIME AGO.

So, Tejszd, I know i am a MAN, and I am sure mooxe is a MAN, and we will just give Stalky the benefit of the doubt. As men, we are not supposed to hold grudges.

But if you are disgruntled because Meuse Crossing is not on the Matrix Title list, then as your friend, I would suggest you be happy and don't worry. Don't use 64 maps and PRESTO, it's finished. Wink

#20: Re: Mod Makers & Matrix Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:54 pm
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Anyways I am happy Conrad and Cathartes have asked the membership here for some feedback on Gateway to Caen. -mooxe

Well sure, and far be it for us to tell someone how to have fun on the site. But there is a catch.

On 10/26 Conrad started a similar thread at Matrix requesting the same feedback. So for some reason, I just thought that these Matrix CC projects were pretty closed mouthed about the work in progress. You know, the NDA that we always hear about. It's my personal preference to ask this team to conduct their business at Matrix. It is easy enough for us to go over there and talk about their project. It happens now anyway.

And the idea of the Matrix team constantly drifting in and out of the site might sound good for the moment, but wait until the game's release, when we start telling them the game sucks. Let's hope that doesn't happen. Laughing

I was really hoping that the 2D game development would stop after PitF. That's what we were told. No one is going to mod anything major for any of the releases, until there are some people capable of making mod specific maps, that are NEW. Hence Conrad mana, and he wants to sell his maps. OKAY, great. Idea

But in the meantime, we can still keep porting and thanks to nkin, Dima, and Drizzt we do have some stuff completed.

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