Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:23 pmPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:07 amPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:32 amPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:53 amPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:10 amPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:31 amPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:41 amPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:12 amPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:31 pm
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:40 pmPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:47 pmPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:04 amPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:31 am| Pzt_Crackwise wrote (View Post): |
| Some of modern Ukraine has belonged to Crimean Khanate before, which was an Ottoman vassal and some of it was possessed by the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth. So it has not belonged to Russia always. |
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:35 amPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:19 pmPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:20 pmPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:45 pmPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:34 amPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:00 amPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:16 am| Quote: |
| Sure it doesn't look like an invasion by those photos Dima. What do you call it when troops from one nation enter another? Occupation? Peace keeping? If the Ukrainians put up any type of defense at the border it would of been an invasion right? Instead they were either surprised or would'nt call Russia's bluff. |
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:29 pm Boy that should really scare me off...
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:07 pm| ke_mechial wrote (View Post): |
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Did you see in the news, the russian soldier pointing a rocket launcher at a column of ukrainian soldiers? Omg aren't they supposed to be used against vehicles? Boy that should really scare me off...
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Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:50 pm| Quote: |
| RPG-7 has an HE-Frag rocket |
Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:58 pmPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:40 pmPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:00 am| johnsilver wrote (View Post): |
| How many in the former Eastern Block states, as well as in Europe now would like to see their old favorite whipping boy/girl leaders in Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagen, over Socialist and ultra liberals like have been mostly elected to office since the fall of the iron curtain? |
| johnsilver wrote (View Post): |
| Encroachments like this on sovereignty of an independent state more than likely wouldn't have gone mildly unchallenged under a moderate leader just 6 years ago. |
| johnsilver wrote (View Post): |
| the governments there are as weak as Obama has made the US. It might as well be Neville Chamberlain waving a piece of paper.. |
| johnsilver wrote (View Post): |
| Europe has learned (or should have) after what happened with Syria several months ago that they are going to have to build up a common military buffer on the East side, once again at least short term and not be able to count on any support from the out side for assistance. This is not good considering they have several members teetering on bankruptcy already. |
| johnsilver wrote (View Post): |
| Kind of off topic, but does this lead to Germany being the new lead member of this block as they are in the best financial support and being one of the closest in danger? |
Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:28 pmPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:00 pmPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:37 pm| Quote: |
| ...and now they will have a referendum to vote on whether or not to join Russia or stay with Ukraine. A vote while being occupied by foreign troops!! The outcome of this vote is SOOOOO predictable!! |
| Quote: |
| I keep seeing reports that Putin is saying no Russian troops are in Crimea. These troops we are seeing are local militias. What are they saying about this in Russia Dima? |
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Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:53 pm
Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:26 pm| Quote: |
| Whats the cost of the Bush wars? |
| Quote: |
| Only Dr Strangelove miss them at times like this. |
Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:27 pm| Quote: |
| All the problems come from the western propaganda |
Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:34 pm| johnsilver wrote (View Post): |
| the Soviets knew they had a free hand to get a warm water port in Afghanistan (or thought it would be easy). . |
Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:38 pm| johnsilver wrote (View Post): |
| , the Soviets knew they had a free hand to get a warm water port in Afghanistan (or thought it would be easy). . |
Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:52 pmPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:55 pmPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:15 pmPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:22 am| mooxe wrote (View Post): |
| I learned today that Russian news agencies are controlled by the government. Is that true? |
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Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:30 am
Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:29 pmPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:48 pm| Dima wrote (View Post): |
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From a couple of days ago they started to quote the Den Haage court process regarding Kosovo in Dec 2009 where the US, Germany, British, Austria representatives all said that any part of any country could declare independancy through referendum - we all know what was a court decision that time
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Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:52 pm| Dima wrote (View Post): |
| That's a nice page about situation in Ukraine http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/02/27/world/europe/ukraine-divisions-crimea.html?hp&_r=1 |
Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:01 pmPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:15 pm| Quote: |
| I know there's lots of comparing going around. Every one of these situations are very very different though. Most of the foreign intervention in Kosovo came after all the bloodshed of the Balkan wars. From what I can tell Crimea was never headed towards civil war in the first place, so why are all the Russian troops there? |
Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:29 pmPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:55 pm| Quote: |
| I keep seeing reports that Putin is saying no Russian troops are in Crimea. These troops we are seeing are local militias. What are they saying about this in Russia Dima? |
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Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:16 pmPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:24 pm| johnsilver wrote (View Post): |
| If Romney, or McCain had been president? Same thing could have been a possibility, granted. The trail of errors leading up to it would not have been.. Slashing of military budgets. Removal of US forces around the globe (portraying weakness). Attempting a "reset" with someone who never wanted it to start with (and both McCain/Palin are on record with this from 2008). |
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:22 pm| johnsilver wrote (View Post): |
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Slashing of military budgets. Removal of US forces around the globe (portraying weakness). Attempting a "reset" with someone who never wanted it to start with (and both McCain/Palin are on record with this from 2008).
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| johnsilver wrote (View Post): |
| Portraying weakness invites this type of behavior. Yes, it doesn't particularly involve the US, but it eventually could. I understand where Obama is coming from and he is of the total isolationist movement, |
| johnsilver wrote (View Post): |
| Portraying weakness invites this type of behavior. |
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:37 pmPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:09 am| Dima wrote (View Post): | ||
today an interesting version appeared that these "polite armed troopers in the Russian camo" could be the EU based PMCs hired by Crimean authorities - we'll see if this version will have any proofs though. but in case they are really PMCs it appears that Putin was not lying .
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Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:02 amPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:46 amPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:20 amPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:09 am| sieterayos wrote (View Post): |
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There is no resolution to this crisis in the phoney pretexts presented by any politicians or their media accomplices. The solution lies in the unity of the Russian with Ukrainian working class around an internationalist socialist program against the warmongers of the Kremlin, Washington and Berlin and against all the Ukrainian oligarchs. Clearly, we're a long way from that. |
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:19 am http://www.closecombat.org/csoforums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14633
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:45 pm| Quote: |
| Oleh Tyahnybok hailed John Demjanjuk, accomplice in the murder of 30 000 people in Sobibor, a hero. His deputy, Yuriy Mykhalchyshyn, founded the “Joseph Goebbels Political Research Center,” a Neo-Nazi think tank. Andriy Parubiy is a founder of this movement. He orchestrated the Right Sector including the UNA-UNSO para-militaries, who, when not dressed and waving swastika like banners in the style of 1930s fascist thugs, provoked pitched battles with the police during the protests. Parubiy is now minister for the armed forces in the Kiev junta. |
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:50 pm| pvt_Grunt wrote (View Post): |
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btw Siet, Sulla is waiting for you..... http://www.closecombat.org/csoforums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14633
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Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:48 pm| dj wrote (View Post): | ||
Wow I just had a flashback from 10 years ago.
You know that really IS Siet when he plants the longest post in the thread. Ukraine is screwed...they have no money, no jobs, no oil or natural resources ( at least that keeps them safe from potential rise of another war-hawk right wing USA regime ). So it is true they will be torn like a rag doll between Putin and the "West". Putin is shrewd and calculating...he knows full well when to exploit a situation for political gain. |
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:18 am| sieterayos wrote (View Post): | ||||
In what way Putin is gaining from this, I just can't imagine. A temporary patriotic surge will give way to unrest as sanctions kick in and/or a shooting war with US backed Ukraine opens up. Nuclear conflagration? That's good for his opinion pol ratings, sure. |
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:52 am| Quote: |
| Except for those pesky facts like annexing S. Ossetia |
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:23 am[/quote]
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:15 pmPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:47 pm| dj wrote (View Post): |
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Russia still was itching to get revenge against the separatists in the South...and the U.S. even under an imperialist war-hawk president did not intervene. Although Senator McCain and his war-hawk friends at that time did in fact try to prop-up the Georgian regime but their alliance failed to get enough political support. The U.S. has little interest in getting involved in the internal affairs of former USSR nations. Are you not watching your BBC or other outlets??? Do you not see what the people of Ukraine are doing?
Wow you sound like you have been indoctrinated by Rupert Murdoch Corp in accusing Obama of violation of Constitution. I assume you are referring to the Intel agency scandals. Now there is a brand new scandal exposed by Obama's own party. Senator Feinstein made accusations about spying on the very committee assigned to oversight of the Intel agencies. Nice try... These are Institutional issues that really answer to no party or partisan teams...regardless of whom is elected to political office. BTW - Feinstein was attempting to subpoena records about torture at the time she alleged her committee was under surveillance. So please enlighten me on how that is trampling on the Constitution when she is the one attempting to expose injustice in the first place. Re: Ukraine, the U.S. really has not much appetite to get involved. Just as Putin was the guy who stopped military action in Syria, the U.S. is simply trying to diffuse the situation and be a peacemaker. I do give credit to Putin for his brilliant strategy in Syria, to preserve lucrative $ arms deals, while preventing another wasteful war in the Mid-East. Like I said he is a very shrewd and calculating leader. |
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 1:37 pmPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 1:49 pm| mooxe wrote (View Post): |
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Media reports there's only two options on the voting cards.
1. Join Russia 2. Become independant What about stay with Ukraine? |
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:57 pm| mooxe wrote (View Post): |
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Media reports there's only two options on the voting cards.
1. Join Russia 2. Become independant What about stay with Ukraine? |
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Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 4:13 pmPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 5:24 pm)
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 5:47 pm| mooxe wrote (View Post): |
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Media reports there's only two options on the voting cards.
1. Join Russia 2. Become independant What about stay with Ukraine? |
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 5:57 pm| Stwa wrote (View Post): |
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3. Join Jamaica |
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 5:57 pm| tedy28 wrote (View Post): |
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http://fakty.interia.pl/raport-zamieszki-na-ukrainie/galerie/glosowanie-na-krymie-z-urna-do-domow-zdjecie,iId,1392062,iAId,111470
referendum )
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Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:17 pmPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:31 pmPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:44 pm| Tejszd wrote (View Post): |
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Not surprising results given;
... .... - and oh ya the thousands of guys with guns |
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 8:29 pmPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:01 pm
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Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:31 pmPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:36 pmPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:43 pmPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:45 pmPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:37 pm| Tejszd wrote (View Post): |
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Comparing Saddam's Iraq to the Ukraine is a bit premature. The Ukraine has not taken over a neighbouring country or started killing its own citizens (but that didn't prevent the Russians from claiming the unrest in Ukraine was only a threat to Russian minority which is actually the majority in the Crimea).
The aim of the new Ukraine government might not be good but is still unknown/unproven. Russia I would not think should claim the morale high ground with the gulag system for its own citizens and attacks on other neighbouring countries; Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Finland or Poland and what happened to their government, intellectual, military and religious leaders? Unfortunately for most smaller countries the big countries/super powers like to exert their power and try to make themselves look good while doing it! |
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:17 pm| sieterayos wrote (View Post): |
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Did anyone object to the elections held in Iraq under the guns of a universally loathed and feared occupation force that was deliberately stoking sectarian conflict to divide and rule the population? Not to mention abducting, torturing and murdering suspected political opponents in the tens of thousands? Utterly illegal under international law, yet because the US was overseeing it, no one in mainstream politics did more than wring their hands in mock concern. |
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:38 pm| Stwa wrote (View Post): | ||
That's becuase the US needs more experience in these matters. It will take decades before the US can hone their skills to the levels attained by the USSR and now days the RF.
If I am not mistaken, the USSR still holds the Un-Official World Record for eliminating tens of millions of political and religious dissenters in a single conflict. A truely inspiring "Gold Medal" effort. |
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:47 pmPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:49 pmPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:51 pm
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:38 amPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:45 am| Quote: |
| How would I know, I live in Arizona. That's not exactly the US, now is it? |
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:41 am
I want to move from the US to Arizona, so I can be free.
maybe the Navajo Res is not part of the US either, dunno 
Obama May Seize Your Assets
... After all "NSA" is bound to be a keyword when they search through the "metdata". 
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:47 am| Stwa wrote (View Post): |
| If I am not mistaken, the USSR still holds the Un-Official World Record for eliminating tens of millions of political and religious dissenters in a single conflict. A truely inspiring "Gold Medal" effort. |
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:51 am| mooxe wrote (View Post): | ||||
I think a lot of people objected. Didn't we hear about it in the news every day for years? I think even the UN said it was illegal. |
AS far as I recall, the UN actually oversaw the elections to give them a veneer of legitimacy. What could be more criminal?
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:57 am| Stwa wrote (View Post): |
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This government held elections on January 30, 2005 to begin the process of writing a constitution. International groups and the formerly excluded factions claimed that the January 2005 elections were the first free elections in Iraq's history, with a fair representation of all groups. This is in stark contrast to previous elections. After the 16 October, 2002 referendum on the extension of his role as President, Saddam Hussein claimed that %100 of the voters voted "yes" and that %100 of Iraqi's had voted (approximately 24,001,820 people).
Elections in Iraq |
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:59 am| Stwa wrote (View Post): |
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Since Vladimir Putin became President of Russia there has been increasing international criticism of the conduct of Russian elections. European institutions who observed the December 2007 legislative elections concluded that these were not fair elections. Göran Lennmarker, president of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), said that the elections "failed to meet many of the commitments and standards that we have. It was not a fair election." -wiki
Elections in Russia |
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:06 am| johnsilver wrote (View Post): |
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sieterayos,
I read the Jewish papers online daily for the "truth" factor and believe you are correct in the anti semite regard being thrown around the press, such as the known to stretch the truth NYT.. Check this story out from yesterday for example from The Times of Israel: Times of Israel It's got a twist the far left (US) press doesn't want to print, or even think of. |
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:24 am| Stwa wrote (View Post): |
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Me thinks the NSA is recording this thread.
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Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:54 am| sieterayos wrote (View Post): | ||
And which conflict would that be? |
Don't matter to me.
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:34 am| johnsilver wrote (View Post): | ||||
Impossible to determine the exact amount, even close. Most historians will agree on a general number between 20-40m in Stalin's purges which is more than enough. Can't really say he/Soviets were more evil than hitler at the time as they didn't initiate a war that engulfed the planet. hitler was responsible for that and directly responsible for more deaths. |
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:44 am
Elections in Iraq
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:54 am| johnsilver wrote (View Post): |
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Can't really say he/Soviets were more evil than hitler at the time as they didn't initiate a war that engulfed the planet. hitler was responsible for that and directly responsible for more deaths.
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Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:56 am| Tejszd wrote (View Post): |
| Comparing Saddam's Iraq to the Ukraine is a bit premature. The Ukraine has not taken over a neighbouring country or started killing its own citizens |
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:36 pm| Stwa wrote (View Post): |
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I can see you are as open to reason as the criminals from whom you take your political cue. -sieterayos
I suppose you directed this comment to me? FWI, The bolded italisized comments in red fonts within the posts that you quoted are not MY words, but rather quotes from articles held within the Wiki. The underlined phrases in those same posts are actually links to the same Wiki articles, so forumites can check them out and determine for themselves if they are germain to this conversation. Remember to click on the underlined phrases (they are somewhat obvious) to take you to the actual article.
Here, you can practice with this one. Elections in Iraq
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Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:42 pm| AT_Stalky wrote (View Post): | ||
I dont belive Hitler/germany alone started WW2, ever Heard of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact |
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:44 pmPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:50 pm| Stwa wrote (View Post): |
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Assuming we are to judge the "evil" of an individual or regime by the raw figures of their victims- a big assumption- that leaves Stalin/USSR trailing far behind the US. Quite apart from the extermination of the indigenous Americans, the holocaust of slaves, the victims of colonial oppression and the first concentration camps- a US invention in the Philippines, and the obvious casualties of US imperialist aggression in, for the sake of brevity, Iraq, Afghanistan, Panama, Honduras, Chile, Nicaragua and Indonesia, Vietnam, there are the countless millions who die each and every year from poverty and starvation, held in subjugation by the US, its proxies and supported regimes who favour US banks and corporations.
The Polish historian W?adys?aw Konopczy?ski has suggested that concentration camps originated in Poland during the Bar Confederation rebellion (1768-1772), when the Russian Empire established three concentration camps for Polish rebel captives awaiting deportation to Siberia. -w Concentraion Camp Sieterayov: the above underlined phrase is a link to an article in the Wiki. I hope you used the "practise link" I supplied in my previous post. Also, it would help me a great deal, if you could cut down on the run-on sentences. Its no biggy, we all do it from time to time. Thanks ... |
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:12 pmPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:37 pmPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:47 pm| sieterayos wrote (View Post): | ||||
Indeed not. The second world war, a continuation of the first, was the product of an imperialist relationship. That of the established empires of France and Britain attempting to protect what they regarded as "theirs" and the new comers, primarily Germany and the US, barging in for a cut of the action. In both wars, the Ukraine was the strategic german objective, as it most probably remains today, though admittedly I can not justify that claim. |
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:01 pm| Stwa wrote (View Post): |
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In modern usage, that is the arbitrary internment of civilians, I think you'll find the US and British Empire led the way... I'm afraid I don't understand your term "run-on sentences". -sieterayov
I read the article, and the definition changed after the experiences in the Nazi camps, implying at least to me, that the Germans led the way, hence the modern defintion. [/color] |
| Stwa wrote (View Post): |
| You might try finding support for your assertions and including them in your original posts, because I have a funny feeling your just trying to blow infammatory bullshit into the forum for your own amusement. Again, no biggy, we have all done it ourselves at some point in our lives. Thanks ... |
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:45 pm| AT_Stalky wrote (View Post): |
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But the question was who actually started the war.. It was not British and/or French soldiers who stepped over the border on the 1 st & 17:th September 1939, in full agreement. And don’t forget that [Soviet]-Russia was moving forward to its old western empire borders. |
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:06 pmPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:33 pm| sieterayos wrote (View Post): |
| you are taking a step down the road to investigating the reasons for the war, which, if you continue, will eventually take you to economy, where the origins of all wars are to be found. . |
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:17 pm| Stwa wrote (View Post): |
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The US and British camps, then, fall firmly into the modern use of the term into which use we were both born. -sieterayov
During the 20th century, the arbitrary internment of civilians by the state reached a climax with Nazi concentration camps (1933–1945). As a result, the term "concentration camp" today carries many of the connotations of "extermination camp" (or "death camp"), and is sometimes used synonymously with these terms by people who are unaware of its original pre-1933 usage. Not all Nazi concentration camps were "extermination camps". Many were used primarily to house forced laborers. The inmates in these camps were held there for the purpose of exploitation, rather than for extermination. -wiki Concentration Camp So, to believe your BS, someone would have to prove that the American Camps in the Phillipines in 1902 were deliberately set up for the express purpose of exterminating the residents of the camp. And, if so established, me thinks you would then have to realize that the Spanish camps in Cuba in 1868-1878 were also extermination camps. It is fairly clear to me that the American and Spanish camps were not established with the express intent to exterminate the inhabitants of the camps, and therefore do NOT fit the tenants of the modern definition of same. So, unless new info arrives, and since I do not believe you to be stupid, I will just conclude that you are trolling for amusement.
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Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:30 pm| Quote: |
| I dont belive Hitler/germany alone started WW2, ever Heard of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. |
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:32 pm| AT_Stalky wrote (View Post): | ||
Siet I do agree that many reasons for war can be found in economy. However not all wars. Sweden has for example; one war started due to a King felt his popularity was going down… Another is the UK/Argentinean Falkland war.. Also that due to people at home, due to failing popularity… [yes, economy failing]… And we can fined many wars like this, started due to abstracting the population at home, and spur national feelings, trying to make us forget the incompetence of the unpopular rulers. Shifting focus, playing on safty and nationalism.. May we fined wars started due to strategic safety.. ? The question is what Russia is doing now, and why? I can imagine that Russia feels like NATO/West is closing in on them. Baltic states = NATO. Poland, and many of the East Euro states, former WP countries are now in NATO. NATO flirted with Georgia, making the leaders there having a fit of hubris. Can’t help but feel that NATO/West ought to think of the consequence of there flirting with Russians neighbors. If NATO/West is not prepared to start WW3 over Georgia, thus nuclear war, then they should not flirt with Georgia in first place. No? And now we have Ukraine. A question US ought to ask them self, what if China would make a defence agreement with Mexico, station some million soldiers there and hardware.. How did US react to Cuba and the missiles? Somewhere there ought the Russians feelings be today, maybe…? Though Putin may also Shifting focus.. ? |
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:30 pmPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:29 pm| Stwa wrote (View Post): |
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Your pedantry, however, serves only to distract yourself from the original point which you have nowhere even attempted to refute, that with regards to raw figures of killing, the US ruling class holds the crown over all contenders. -sieterayov
Well, my points are progressing, but just not as fast as you would like. Partly because I am slower now days, but also because of your constant effort with every post to obscure facts. On the forums, your posts aren't really classified as lies per se, but rather the rants of a troll that is just amusing himself. So when it goes slow, it is less enjoyable for you. Your first point created the impression (at least in my mind, becuase of its coupling with your other points), that the US planned a systematic extermination of indigenous peoples from (presumably) North America. You know that is total BS. My response is on page 8. You chose the word "extermination" so that forumites might think it was pre-meditated and always viloent, which is not true. Your third point led forumites to believe the the US invented the concentration camp. After some time, we now know that is total BS no matter which defintion we apply. The pre 1933 definition according to the Wiki article would have Russia as the inventor of the first concentration camp, and using the later defintion, it would be Germany. My responses are on page 7 and 8. |
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:43 pm| Quote: |
| The US used concentration camps in which thousands died of disease and summary executions. |
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:28 pmPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:27 amPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:30 amPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:05 am| johnsilver wrote (View Post): |
| [quote]The US used concentration camps in which thousands died of disease and summary executions. |
| johnsilver wrote (View Post): |
| [quote]You do realize those summary executions go as far back as the Ancient Egyptians that we know of and probably even farther? |
| johnsilver wrote (View Post): |
| Not to mention, I wouldn't call internment camps (1940's) concentration camps, and would stop short of calling what you are describing as concentration camps the Indian internment camps. |
| johnsilver wrote (View Post): |
| [quote]Was the trail of tears a bloodbath? it certainly was. My father in law passed away 10 years ago at the age of 88 and was bitter, a full blooded Cherokee, as is my wife. Still, that is not running people into buildings and poisoning them with -0- chance of survival. many Cherokee's made the trip to North Carolina, as hard as it was. |
| johnsilver wrote (View Post): |
| [quote]You Sir, are twisting facts. |
Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:09 am| Stwa wrote (View Post): |
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Yes, the US did invent the concentration camp but actually, it's not central to my argument. The US used concentration camps in which thousands died of disease and summary executions. -sieterayov
These camps were not intended for extermination/genocide at all. But in every case (Phillipines, Cuba, and South Africa), the necessary food and medical supplies needed to sustain the civilans in their camp was underestimated or could not be provided, and generally malnutrition lead to disease and widesperad death. The numbers at the American camps seems to be lower than the Camps in Cuba and South Africa, with one source noting 8,000 deaths in the Phillipines. So far, I have not encountred one article that describes the Americans as the "inventor" of the concentration camp, but this article attributes the FIRST modern concentration camp to the British. List of Concentration and Internment Camps |
Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:37 am| Stwa wrote ( |