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Close Combat Series -> The Mess

#401: Re: The Ukraine Author: dj,

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:25 am
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Dima - I believe those unemployment numbers for Ukraine are lies. Even here in America, it is well-known that unemployment rates are exaggerated. It does not take into account people that are under-employed, gave up trying to find work or otherwise do not have a real job. So I think double easily whatever the government claims it is.

Yes I think the Separatists already captured huge stockpiles of Ukraine equipment. Some of it I am sure was originally from Russia anyway back in Soviet era. I think that is good point. Russia does not need to give the Separatists much since plenty was already captured.

#402: Re: The Ukraine Author: Dima,

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:07 am
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dj wrote (View Post):

Dima - I believe those unemployment numbers for Ukraine are lies. Even here in America, it is well-known that unemployment rates are exaggerated. It does not take into account people that are under-employed, gave up trying to find work or otherwise do not have a real job. So I think double easily whatever the government claims it is.

yes, most likely they count only persons that are registered as unemployment. If they work in Russia or Poland they are not part of that statistics.

Quote:

Yes I think the Separatists already captured huge stockpiles of Ukraine equipment. Some of it I am sure was originally from Russia anyway back in Soviet era. I think that is good point. Russia does not need to give the Separatists much since plenty was already captured.

haha, every PK or AK is originally from Russia - there was no factories for them in Ukraine Wink

#403: Re: The Ukraine Author: dj,

Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 5:05 am
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I'm talking about the heavy equipment, tanks, APC's, etc. I wonder what happened when Yeltsin took power. Did Soviet army take equipment back to HQ in Russia after fall of govt? I can't imagine all of it was salvaged. My guess is that former Soviet states that broke away from Russia after fall of Soviet Union, must have inherited a large arsenal of abandoned military equipment. The biggest fear here in the West is 100% accounting of chemical weapons and of course nukes.

#404: Re: The Ukraine Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida

Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 5:20 am
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DJ,

I don't think Ukraine took very good care of it at all.

Look at this link here. There must be 100's of rusting russian tanks in this tank graveyard in the Ukraine:

tank graveyard

#405: Re: The Ukraine Author: Dima,

Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:17 am
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dj wrote (View Post):

I'm talking about the heavy equipment, tanks, APC's, etc. I wonder what happened when Yeltsin took power. Did Soviet army take equipment back to HQ in Russia after fall of govt? I can't imagine all of it was salvaged. My guess is that former Soviet states that broke away from Russia after fall of Soviet Union, must have inherited a large arsenal of abandoned military equipment. The biggest fear here in the West is 100% accounting of chemical weapons and of course nukes.

After signing CFE in 1987 USSR withdrew huge numbers of APC/IFVs to Ural and that's why on the eve of the USSR collapse there wasn't many of them left with Ukraine.
But as there was Kharkov tank factory in Ukraine a number of tank conservation areas remained in Ukraine. But they didn't really take any care of them for the last 23 years so the rule of thumb that only around 1% of these conserved tanks could be pressed to service within a 2 weeks time by cannibilizing other vehicles. Then they will need alot of spare parts like engines, radios, transmission, optics, etc to get other ready.
AFAIK Russia took all nuklear, biological and chemical weapons from all the former republics.

Last edited by Dima on Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:23 am; edited 1 time in total

#406: Re: The Ukraine Author: Dima,

Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:22 am
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johnsilver wrote (View Post):

DJ,
I don't think Ukraine took very good care of it at all.
Look at this link here. There must be 100's of rusting russian tanks in this tank graveyard in the Ukraine:
tank graveyard

Actually that's a good example of tank conservation area that was not cared of.
Although Kharkov was producing only T-64 tanks, this conservation area has a number of T-72B (photo 6) as well that was left there since USSR.

#407: Re: The Ukraine Author: Dima,

Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 5:59 pm
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Poor beggar
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/08/22/us-army-veteran-west-point-grad-killed-fighting-for-ukraine/

#408: Re: The Ukraine Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida

Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:17 pm
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US Nationals (or former in his case now that he became a citizen of Ukr) entering skirmishes around the world. We see them in Iraq, we see them in Israel (dual citizenship there) we saw them before in the Croat-Serb war, Have seen in Syria. On all sides of the moral compass, whichever side you are looking at it from.

It has been going on for decades, even over a century with US merc's. That's what they are. Government armies or soldiers for hire. They (mostly) expect to be able to return to the US after fighting for some cause.

Is it right? Can the ones leaving to fight for IS be condemned any more than the ones leaving to fight for causes many see no problems with, like Ukraine and Israel, though one is evil?

Point is it will be tough drafting US laws stopping those draftees of IS recruits from leaving/stopping when those same said others are welcomed back and cheered over their sacrifices like that story Dima posted.

#409: Re: The Ukraine Author: pvt_Grunt, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:13 pm
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I see the white truck convoy has crossed the border now, this is a clever political move by Russia to provoke Ukraine into calling it an invasion.
I hope the people who need the food/water/supplies get it, I am sure we'll see some footage.

#410: Re: The Ukraine Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:57 am
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Thanks for the heads up Grunt. I see news feeds, of all sorts of "sources" coming out from both sides and a few videos who knows how correct they are. Have you seen any of the convoy moving yet over the border? I haven't.

Obama has condemned it made another of his empty threats, that got stale when he has a tissy years ago.. I don't see why kerry is not headed there. He'll keep his high ranking people far away from there. Knows he has no pull, but read on Arutz Sheva that Kerry is about to stick his nose back into the Israeli-Hamas negotiations, even tho neither Abbas, or Netanyahu, even Egypt want him there! Trying to look important somewhere, while the east burns.

Ukraine convoy

#411: Re: The Ukraine Author: Dima,

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:42 am
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johnsilver wrote (View Post):

Yes, the convoy reached Lugansk by 17:30 local time yesterday
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0oQVz1L8Oc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spjnWRiCmEE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_U2eyJY8TU

#412: Re: The Ukraine Author: Dima,

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:54 am
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First trucks have actually returned back to the RF territory.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHSHC6G7zk8

#413: Re: The Ukraine Author: Dima,

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:03 pm
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Ok, all 260 trucks are back to Russia by now.

#414: Re: The Ukraine Author: Dima,

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:09 pm
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According to the official Ukranian statistics (Center of freeing POWs https://www.facebook.com/CentrZvilnennya?ref=bookmarks%FF) there are 250 missed and captured Ukranian soldiers in Donbas by now:
http://artofwar.ru/z/zhirohow_m_a/text_0220.shtml

and that indirectly proves that official casualty rate is greatly diminished.

And this statistics doesn't include missed and captured of territorial battalions (national activists) that mainly belong to MVD (home affairs) or SBU (security agency).

#415: Re: The Ukraine Author: dj,

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:13 pm
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johnsilver wrote (View Post):

Thanks for the heads up Grunt. I see news feeds, of all sorts of "sources" coming out from both sides and a few videos who knows how correct they are. Have you seen any of the convoy moving yet over the border? I haven't.

Obama has condemned it made another of his empty threats, that got stale when he has a tissy years ago.. I don't see why kerry is not headed there. He'll keep his high ranking people far away from there. Knows he has no pull, but read on Arutz Sheva that Kerry is about to stick his nose back into the Israeli-Hamas negotiations, even tho neither Abbas, or Netanyahu, even Egypt want him there! Trying to look important somewhere, while the east burns.

Ukraine convoy

Everything always has to be a Partisan issue with you John. You can't survive a single day without having to turn every issue into something Partisan...and then what a surprise you cite a Conservative media website for news article.

Let's hear about those "empty threats" John. So what are you trying to say...we should bomb Dima and the rest of Russia? What specifically do you think USA should do to stop Putin? I love how you Partisans always like to complain 24 x 7 in the Conservative media, yet offer no actual alternatives. All this talk about Israel-Gaza is a bunch of bullshit too. All talk no solutions. There is no peace in Israel until they have a real legitimate solution to make a fair deal with the Palestinians...and that will never happen with Netanyahu in power because he doesn't want to. The last time an Israeli PM attempted a real lasting peace deal he was murdered by right-wing extremists in his own country.

#416: Re: The Ukraine Author: Dima,

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:21 pm
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Quote:

So what are you trying to say...we should bomb Dima and the rest of Russia?

noone will bomb Russia until he has a working Missile Defence Wink

#417: Re: The Ukraine Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:24 pm
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Quote:

All talk no solutions. There is no peace in Israel until they have a real legitimate solution to make a fair deal with the Palestinians...and that will never happen with Netanyahu in power because he doesn't want to.

Possibly because one side (the conservative in Israel) understands that the Palestinians want ALL of Israel for the future Palestine and not just part of it? I guess you do not pay attention to Palestinian maps, where ALL of Israel (currently) is made up of the future Palestinian land.. PLO media makes fun of Israeli's.. cartoons mock them and it's indoctrinated into children from an early age? School books? Many from UN agencies even?

Look no further than the last land giveaway (Gaza) to the PLO and see what lies ahead DJ. Netanyahu is no fool, however he realizes that Abbas and Obama are. 2 more years and 1 is out of his hair after 6 years of giving him lice.

Quote:

noone will bomb Russia until he has a working Missile Defence Wink.

Very well put Dima. Nobody messes with a super power that is armed to the teeth without having a counter measure in place. It's why they build defensive measures, NOT tear them down. Correct?

Edit:

I tell you how far US credibility has fallen in the middle east..

The US was thrown out of the Israeli-Hamas-PL-Egyptian negotiations the last round and Putin was invited in...

Russia is the newest invitee, along with the Saudis, Israel, UAE and Egypt in a burgeoning, in the making power from the middle East. We'll have to see how it plays out, with the Arabs/Israeli having to keep everything under the table of course diplomatically, but the hellfire missile holdup (temporarily) seemed to stick in the craw of the Israeli's, even though they were finally released.

The US is making a big mistake playing with Israel these last half dozen years. They have already lost Egypt and the Saudi's and can't afford to lose Israel.

#418: Re: The Ukraine Author: Dima,

Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 10:07 pm
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Quote:

Very well put Dima. Nobody messes with a super power that is armed to the teeth without having a counter measure in place. It's why they build defensive measures, NOT tear them down. Correct?

well, you most likely don't know but even in 90s when everything was collapsing here, the only article of budget that wasn't sequestered was like we call them RVSN (you can google). Actually they were puting (Put-In?!) more and more money in it and we have developed some new rocket systems that time with unpredictable trajectory.
And now they all are working to make it more advanced to deal with any possible Missile Defence System in the following 10-20 years. They are not that accurate as the US ones, but way faster, having unpredicatble ballistic trajectory and more powerful overal.

#419: Re: The Ukraine Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida

Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:30 am
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Thanks Dima, wasn't aware. Even allies never fully trust each other, much less adversaries.

Oldies here remember the days of people building fallout shelters in their back yard out of cement blocks. My dad built one, though in Florida it couldn't be very deep. There were drills during school some times at the height of the cold war of the 60's. Having a protective shield is a good idea, not only vs a possible opponent in a super power case, but in current times a rogue state which is my beef.

Possibly if relations can ever be repaired between the US-USSR a joint shield can be built. Feelings there are as always.. Europe is still a 20 headed monster going in 20 different directions. How to get anything accomplished anyplace without offending another over without starting a petty squabble.

#420: Re: The Ukraine Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida

Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:50 pm
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Found this interesting in today's news:

Ukraine Marks Independence Day

Also this bit inside the story... Does anyone abide by the Geneva convention any longer?

Quote:

The BBC also reported that separatists in the rebel stronghold of Donetsk had planned to hold their own parade that would showcase destroyed Ukrainian armored personnel carriers and captured Ukraine soldiers. However, it could not be immediately confirmed that such an event had taken place.

The article is one sided, as is everything coming out of that area, just shows another fuse the current government is trying(?) to light on a keg of gunpowder the continent of Europe has been sitting on top of over the last 25 years. This needs to get calmed down, not heated up further. Merkel.. IMO is the one who should have taken charge long ago in the situation developing.

Close Combat Series -> The Mess

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