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#21: Re: The Ukraine Author: ke_mechial,

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:29 pm
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Did you see in the news, the russian soldier pointing a rocket launcher at a column of ukrainian soldiers? Omg aren't they supposed to be used against vehicles? Smile

Boy that should really scare me off...

#22: Re: The Ukraine Author: Dima,

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:07 pm
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ke_mechial wrote (View Post):

Did you see in the news, the russian soldier pointing a rocket launcher at a column of ukrainian soldiers? Omg aren't they supposed to be used against vehicles? Smile

Boy that should really scare me off...

RPG-7 has an HE-Frag rocket Smile

#23: Re: The Ukraine Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:50 pm
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Quote:

RPG-7 has an HE-Frag rocket

Pretty sure the 122m cannon on several Russian tanks during the war had HE shells also, rather than AP, yet they were pretty effective against armored vehicles.

Point is.. From the start.. An agreement was made to close ties toward the east and many didn't want it, preferring it to the West.. Vast corruption was found, from those favoring ties with the East.

I see the Ukraine split into 2 (for now) at best, or sitting from afar. Corruption on one side and the Euro side on the other. Hopefully there is some way to over come those old ways, we read about how it was always done, but seeing it is another.

#24: Re: The Ukraine Author: mooxe,

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:58 pm
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...and now they will have a referendum to vote on whether or not to join Russia or stay with Ukraine. A vote while being occupied by foreign troops!! The outcome of this vote is SOOOOO predictable!!

#25: Re: The Ukraine Author: ke_mechial,

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:40 pm
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To me, it is pretty worth of notice that this crisis has come out right after US wanted to cut the budget of the Army and bring in new sparing plans, e. g. decommissioning A-10s and other things. I suppose Arm Manufacturers are always the happy faces before and after wars and conflicts...

#26: Re: The Ukraine Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:00 am
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johnsilver wrote (View Post):

How many in the former Eastern Block states, as well as in Europe now would like to see their old favorite whipping boy/girl leaders in Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagen, over Socialist and ultra liberals like have been mostly elected to office since the fall of the iron curtain?

Only Dr Strangelove miss them at times like this.

FYI, It may be good to know that a “liberal” in US is not the same as a “liberal” in Europe.

johnsilver wrote (View Post):

Encroachments like this on sovereignty of an independent state more than likely wouldn't have gone mildly unchallenged under a moderate leader just 6 years ago.

johnsilver wrote (View Post):

the governments there are as weak as Obama has made the US. It might as well be Neville Chamberlain waving a piece of paper..

Whats the cost of the Bush wars?

Follow link: http://nationalpriorities.org/cost-of/

Heres a thought, what if the trigger happy cowboy dint start those wars, or both wars, would the American economy be in its present state then? Would there be needs for the defence cuts at all? So, who caused the decline in US military might, thus the present "power vacuum"??

johnsilver wrote (View Post):

Europe has learned (or should have) after what happened with Syria several months ago that they are going to have to build up a common military buffer on the East side, once again at least short term and not be able to count on any support from the out side for assistance. This is not good considering they have several members teetering on bankruptcy already.

Can you explain your thoughts here, please? Isn’t the Syria war an internal fight? A defence force such as most European has, are for DEFENDING our territory. As far as I know, Syria has not threatened any European nation? Or?

johnsilver wrote (View Post):

Kind of off topic, but does this lead to Germany being the new lead member of this block as they are in the best financial support and being one of the closest in danger?

That might be a strictly logical development, but, consider feelings… Makes German an unlikely and unwilling leader.

#27: Re: The Ukraine Author: Bungarra, Location: Murchison region, West Australia

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:28 pm
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The history of the Crimea is long & complex..

Russia cannot give up its only all year port... that is the facts

Lets hope cool heads prevail..

IMHO it has nothing to do with Europe or the US.. .. its in Russias backyard no one elses..

Sanctions will just drag the saga on & who wins.... certainly not the average Ukrainian.

My wish is for harmony to prevail & peace for all......

#28: Re: The Ukraine Author: mooxe,

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:00 pm
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I keep seeing reports that Putin is saying no Russian troops are in Crimea. These troops we are seeing are local militias. What are they saying about this in Russia Dima?

#29: Re: The Ukraine Author: Dima,

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:37 pm
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Quote:

...and now they will have a referendum to vote on whether or not to join Russia or stay with Ukraine. A vote while being occupied by foreign troops!! The outcome of this vote is SOOOOO predictable!!

doesn't remind you Kosovo? :)

Quote:

I keep seeing reports that Putin is saying no Russian troops are in Crimea. These troops we are seeing are local militias. What are they saying about this in Russia Dima?

same

.

but almost 60% of Russians support this action so far...

#30: Re: The Ukraine Author: caruso, Location: Livorno

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:53 pm
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All the problems come from the western propaganda Evil or Very Mad

#31: Re: The Ukraine Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:26 pm
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Quote:

Whats the cost of the Bush wars?

You mean the victory that was turned into defeat by (US) liberal policies and socialist agendas?

Quote:

Only Dr Strangelove miss them at times like this.

I highly doubt the USSR, China, or anyone else would have gone on a 'conquering" spree with Reagan and they didn't.. Look at Carter.. iran and the Mullahs..at iran, the Soviets knew they had a free hand to get a warm water port in Afghanistan (or thought it would be easy). Clinton and his no clue foreign policy with eastern block states.. SHAMED into finally using cruise missiles to start with, then his Bosnia debacle, then his same mistake at Somalia. Obama and his ham fisted mess at Libya.. Reagan didn't play at Libya, i know, my ship was there. You go to war, or teach a lesson and make it a nasty hard one the other side doesn't forget.

Just like Thatcher taught Argentina with the Falklands skirmish/war. Go hard, or not at all. Sending a few missiles does nothing. Take it to where it hurts. All other is nonsense.

#32: Re: The Ukraine Author: Dima,

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:27 pm
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Quote:

All the problems come from the western propaganda

well, alot of the active the Russian population and media/known persons were badly against Putin's actions but after the EU and US have shown the worst example of double standards, a support became much much wider and stronger...

like those famous footage of lethal shooting of the rebels that was told to be done by the regime sniper but appears there were some mercenaries hired by the rioters (telecon by Estonian minister released these days).
this video tries to track bullet trajectories https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0TCDY4nc6A - for me it really looks they were shot from the rear.

interesting that one of the first legal act released by the provisional goverment was a banning of a Russian language as a regional language - so no wonder the South-East part of Ukraine didn't like it and especially Crimea where there are 60% of the Russians. Btw, Crimea declared to have a referendum for independency from Kiev if nationalists come to power in December or November.

anyway, most likely, everything is agreed between the US and RF and Crimea is just a trade card...

#33: Re: The Ukraine Author: HogansHeros,

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:34 pm
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johnsilver wrote (View Post):

the Soviets knew they had a free hand to get a warm water port in Afghanistan (or thought it would be easy). .

I take it geography is not your strong suit.

#34: Re: The Ukraine Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:38 pm
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johnsilver wrote (View Post):

, the Soviets knew they had a free hand to get a warm water port in Afghanistan (or thought it would be easy). .

Yeh, the many major warm water ports in Afghanistan...

#35: Re: The Ukraine Author: caruso, Location: Livorno

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:52 pm
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Seriousley, i think that lies and propaganda come from all the directions. As it has always been since the ancient times and the first kinds of propaganda which today, we call "news".

Truth lies in the middle, but honestly the principle of, as remembered by tejszd :"...Protecting a minority has been used many times as an excuse/reason (depends on which side you support) to attack/take land from a neighbor country..." (or even encouraging or protecting riots or secession movements i would add) is not really acceptable. This overcomes any simpathy for a country or another, for a kind of government or another, is just a matter of principle which should regard all of us, all countries.

edit: i would add that making examples on historical past contests, it's a waste of time as ethical principles have changed a lot over the years and centuries.

#36: Re: The Ukraine Author: Schmal_Turm,

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:55 pm
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"In war, the first casualty is truth."
Greek writer/poet Aeschylus (525-456BC)

#37: Re: The Ukraine Author: mooxe,

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:15 pm
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I learned today that Russian news agencies are controlled by the government. Is that true?

#38: Re: The Ukraine Author: Dima,

Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:22 am
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mooxe wrote (View Post):

I learned today that Russian news agencies are controlled by the government. Is that true?

well, yes, there is a couple of state owned media companies like RT for example, in addition we have like several dozens of more or less independent medias but they are mainly controlled by close-to-goverment oligarkhs, well more or less like US and some European medias.
still we also have a couple of far-from politics news channels similar to Bloomberg and internet media resources that pretend to be control by "political opposition"...and of course a full access to the Western "independent" media either by internet or TV channels Wink

.

so basically we have all-around covering of news from different angles if one is interested Smile

#39: Re: The Ukraine Author: Dima,

Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:30 am
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From a couple of days ago they started to quote the Den Haage court process regarding Kosovo in Dec 2009 where the US, Germany, British, Austria representatives all said that any part of any country could declare independancy through referendum - we all know what was a court decision that time Smile

#40: Re: The Ukraine Author: Dima,

Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:29 pm
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That's a nice page about situation in Ukraine http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/02/27/world/europe/ukraine-divisions-crimea.html?hp&_r=1

Close Combat Series -> The Mess

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