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Classic CC4 GC - MOOXE vs Platoon_Michael

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#1: Classic CC4 GC - MOOXE vs Platoon_Michael Author: mooxe,

Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:51 am
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Michael and I are playing out the original CC4 Grand Campaign. You can follow the battles on the CCS Youtube channel @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ewAUnFlLQM&list=PLeiWfPrs4jBURx-Q4D3fwzsIC8utFVBQ0

Some things I have re-learned about CC4..

1. Its a polished version of CC. Everything seems complete, no major bugs, nothing to worry about multiplayer wise like in CC5 (crashes and freezes).
2. Maps are SMALL. Very small, 250m wide for some of them. This makes battles intense and makes for lots of close combat.
3. Nowhere to hide on these small maps. Don;t even think about deploying into the obvious three story house that overlooks everything, you will just get pummeled to death.
4. Panthers are a menace. I am happy enough to get immobilizing hits. I have only destroyed one so far, damaged a bunch of others though.
5. Ammo for bazooka and mortar teams is low. Mortars only get 20 bombs.
6. Locked forcepools speed the game up. No waiting in the selection phase for nit pickers, or guys trying to get high ranked teams. I feel like locked forcepools go hand in hand with small maps. Larger maps give you more opportunities to try different tactics with different units. CC4 throws you into an MMA cage with what you see is what you get attitude.
7. The focus is on the tactical level, not the strategic level. Theres almost nothing to be distracted by in the strategic phase except supply and assigning support. Combined with locked forcepools, CC4 is pure close combat.

#2: Re: Classic CC4 GC - MOOXE vs Platoon_Michael Author: pvt_Grunt, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:17 am
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Well said. - It is the red haired step-child of the CC world, but the small maps and locked forcepools which made it so disliked by some were what I enjoyed.

Enjoy the game, I'll be watching and NOT taking sides ..................... much Wink

#3: Re: Classic CC4 GC - MOOXE vs Platoon_Michael Author: Stwa,

Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:25 pm
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I agree,

And because most of the maps are heavily obstructed, you can ususally live with the smaller maps.

Also, when Yuma released his modified set, I believe he said he found it difficult to get the German tanks through the campaign using the original maps. So, he obstructed the maps even more by adding more trees. So I suppose they wouldn't get shot up by the American AT Guns.

You can also try those maps, except apparently Yuma and Ernie were real fans of flammables and explosives. I have seen some maps where every woodpile behind a house was coded as flammable. Yuma liked to put explosives on the bridges. The bridges didn't blow, they just wasted everyone in a 50 meter radius and set both ends of the bridge on fire. Laughing

#4: Re: Classic CC4 GC - MOOXE vs Platoon_Michael Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 3:32 am
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The Vehicle pathing so far has been very difficult for me.
Now granted it's been what 5-6 years since WAR came out.
That's pretty much when I last played CCIV.
In many cases im putting down 10+ way points for them.

Trying to remember where all the best LOS was has also been difficult.

The fixed force pools are indeed speeding up the game,but I was bummed out at Schnee Eifel East when I had two AT_Guns.
No need for them on a heavily wooded map when your attacking.

Defiantly would say I'm very rusty in the H2H department.
To be honest the last GC I played online was back when I was in the AA Clan,and I'm sure that was a Team GC.

But eventually I think the Fuhrer will be pleased. Laughing

#5: Re: Classic CC4 GC - MOOXE vs Platoon_Michael Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:34 pm
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Fortunately, you are playing H2H, otherwise the vehicle pathing for the AI might be unaccaptable based on what you see in WaR.

I remember the initial release of CC4 could cause large vehicle gaggles, complete with spinny disease, and vehicle magnatism.

I think they (Atomic) followed the initial release, with a quick update.

Unless, I am just messing around, I don't allow more than 2 vehicles per side. I enjoy the games alot better that way. Heavy and medium tanks are usually the best behaved vechicles, while scout cars are liable to take off for the next VL regardless of circumstance.

#6: Re: Classic CC4 GC - MOOXE vs Platoon_Michael Author: Ivan_Zaitzev,

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:23 am
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When LSA came out, it was impossible to make tanks cross some bridges. Rolling Eyes

#7: Re: Classic CC4 GC - MOOXE vs Platoon_Michael Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:50 am
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But did you ever figure out why that was. Was it related to pathfinding or something else. Question

I have WaR, for instance, and the vehicles (including those of the AI), are able to cross bridges.

#8: Re: Classic CC4 GC - MOOXE vs Platoon_Michael Author: Digs, Location: Ontario, Canada

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:01 am
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I'm glad to see all these videos being uploaded to YouTube by CCS members. The only problem is, it's hard to the time to watch them all.

#9: Re: Classic CC4 GC - MOOXE vs Platoon_Michael Author: Ivan_Zaitzev,

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:33 am
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Stwa wrote (View Post):

But did you ever figure out why that was. Was it related to pathfinding or something else. Question

I have WaR, for instance, and the vehicles (including those of the AI), are able to cross bridges.

Yes, the pathfinding was messed up, they even released a video to say "Look! The pathfinding is actually working now!": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZ_TNFykvyo

But, let's not derail this topic anymore. Laughing

#10: Re: Classic CC4 GC - MOOXE vs Platoon_Michael Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:10 am
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Ivan_Zaitzev wrote (View Post):

When LSA came out, it was impossible to make tanks cross some bridges. Rolling Eyes

In LSA they tried to improve path finding over WAR/TLD to avoid tanks/vehicles getting stuck in small areas so they made them avoid tight areas. This change was patched into WAR/TLD but unfortunately that made constricted areas, like some of the bridges, impossible to move over/through as the path finding AI no longer believed were big enough. You could even place tanks/vehicles on those same bridges as it was a passable area/terrain that was big enough for them to be placed but then they would not move.

Example; TLD pegasus bridge which even today has not been widened to fix the issue though it was posted in the Matrix forums. For LSA since it was newer I believe they recoded bridges making them a bit wider to fix the issue.

#11: Re: Classic CC4 GC - MOOXE vs Platoon_Michael Author: mooxe,

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:37 pm
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At the 08:50second mark, a 3 man rifle team takes out a panther at 10m from the front.

Link

What weapon did they use?

#12: Re: Classic CC4 GC - MOOXE vs Platoon_Michael Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 3:14 pm
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A panzerfaust or maybe a C-ration.

#13: Re: Classic CC4 GC - MOOXE vs Platoon_Michael Author: pvt_Grunt, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 6:27 pm
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The Panther was probably killed by a rifle grenade, they are quite effective in CC4 if you leave the team on defend. I once killed a King Tiger with one!

At 5:53 he captured the south VL without being seen..... nice

Mooxe - nice try for the VL rush at the end!

#14: Re: Classic CC4 GC - MOOXE vs Platoon_Michael Author: dgfred, Location: N.C., USA

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 2:09 pm
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Really enjoy your comments during the games mooxe Cool

.

You are doing fine Michael, bad luck with that one disband IMO.
I was worried your knocked out HT/AC would block the bridge on that one map Shocked

.

I have watched them all. Nice fighting guys.

I even tried to load my old CC4 disk... but it will not work for some reason. Dang it.

I snickered when Michael typed 'ouch'... I do the same thing in my games Wink

#15: Re: Classic CC4 GC - MOOXE vs Platoon_Michael Author: Stwa,

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:14 pm
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Look, it happened to me too. Exclamation

#16: Re: Classic CC4 GC - MOOXE vs Platoon_Michael Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:09 pm
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I like those shoulder patches.
What's the Germans look like?

#17: Re: Classic CC4 GC - MOOXE vs Platoon_Michael Author: pvt_Grunt, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:24 pm
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Stwa wrote (View Post):

Look, it happened to me too. Exclamation

Surely that deserves a medal.

#18: Re: Classic CC4 GC - MOOXE vs Platoon_Michael Author: Stwa,

Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:11 pm
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There are no medals awarded in CCMT.

#19: Re: Classic CC4 GC - MOOXE vs Platoon_Michael Author: Stwa,

Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:55 am
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platoon_michael wrote (View Post):

I like those shoulder patches.
What's the Germans look like?

In "WW2 Tactics" both ARMY and OPFOR use modern rank insignia. ARMY=American and OPFOR=German.

BTW, I edited these and made them thinner. I do have versions that aren't so edgie, but they look blurred. Confused

Last edited by Stwa on Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:19 pm; edited 2 times in total

#20: Re: Classic CC4 GC - MOOXE vs Platoon_Michael Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:08 pm
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Tejszd wrote (View Post):

So, which bridges are messed up in WaR. I got WaR in 2013 (for the maps really), it came with v 450-14. Does this version have the screwed up AI (for bridges). I don't really play it at all, but now I am worried that the game sucks because of the bridge thing. Shocked

#21: Re: Classic CC4 GC - MOOXE vs Platoon_Michael Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:13 am
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I believe the AI path changing was changed in WAR but I do not know which if any bridges in WAR have the same problem as Pegasus map in TLD.

#22: Re: Classic CC4 GC - MOOXE vs Platoon_Michael Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 4:51 pm
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Tejszd wrote (View Post):

I believe the AI path changing was changed in WAR but I do not know which if any bridges in WAR have the same problem as Pegasus map in TLD.

Hi,

Maybe this (the AI Path Change) is all just an Urban Legend. Laughing

[slaps forehead] Because, I tried a test in CCMT, and guess what, no tanks would pass over Pegasus Bridge. I am using CCMT, and it hasn't been updated since January 2008 (me thinks).

Of course, the bridge is actually coded as Paved Road. The thin metallic line adjacent to the paved road is coded as bridge wall, and the grey areas adjacent to the bridge wall is coded as deep water. And now that I think about it, I have noticed narrow wooden bridges in CC3 coded as bridge (not wooden bridge), and coded much wider than the bridge (into the water), so perhaps tanks could pass over those bridges.

#23: Re: Classic CC4 GC - MOOXE vs Platoon_Michael Author: mooxe,

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:11 pm
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I posted up the remainder of December 17th battles, four in all.

Morale on and German agents redirecting my strategic moves are making it very interesting...

#24: Re: Classic CC4 GC - MOOXE vs Platoon_Michael Author: tripwire, Location: Florida - USA

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:17 am
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MOOXE and Michael, I've really enjoyed watching your re-plays. Thanks so much!!

#25: Re: Classic CC4 GC - MOOXE vs Platoon_Michael Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:52 pm
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I'm not :lol:

I'm talking a beating

#26: Re: Classic CC4 GC - MOOXE vs Platoon_Michael Author: mooxe,

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:23 pm
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A lot of the maps are complete slug fests. So morale drops quickly and early.

#27: Re: Classic CC4 GC - MOOXE vs Platoon_Michael Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:47 am
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Were now getting to the point where my BG's are taking a beating from the Tank destroyers Mooxe is starting to get.

As mentioned in the Shout Box the attrition in this game seems much better than say Wacht am Rhein (The re-released version of This game)
In some cases the PM Battles leave one without a full BG.
Last night I only had 9 or 10 teams at Stavelot.And I know a few cases where Mooxe has said the same thing.
The AM turns are replenishing me,but for how long?

It's currently Dec 20th and Mooxe is wondering how many more Panthers I have left.
And I'm worried at what point do they start getting replaced with MarkIV's ,Armored cars or Half-tracks.
I'm also worried have I been to aggressive with my Troops and squandering too many too fast.
It's been way too many years since I've played to know,but I do know that day is coming for me.

The closest I ever got to completing a GC was with Platoon_Knight with me playing as the Axis.
The only reason we didn't finish it was because my BG's were rendered virtually useless with many many cases of 1 or 2 man Teams,almost all BG's had many empty slots and little or No armor what so ever.
And at said point I cried Uncle.
I cant remember exactly but it couldn't have been 1 maybe 2 days left

I currently only have a Minor Victory in the GC.
Here's hoping my current and upcoming Battle Tactics and Philosophy on the Strategic Map prevail.

#28: Re: Classic CC4 GC - MOOXE vs Platoon_Michael Author: pvt_Grunt, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:54 am
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I hear the sound of a Jumbo rumbling your way from the south..........................

#29: Re: Classic CC4 GC - MOOXE vs Platoon_Michael Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 2:32 am
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Current situation.
Dec. 21st AM

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#30: Re: Classic CC4 GC - MOOXE vs Platoon_Michael Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 12:44 pm
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After one Battle at Bastogne last night.
I didn't think about taking a screen shot during the Battle but Mooxe was stuck in a Very Small area in the lower Southwest corner.

10th Armored has arrived at

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#31: Re: Classic CC4 GC - MOOXE vs Platoon_Michael Author: mooxe,

Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:29 pm
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I like being the underdog. However, countless battles of facing 5 panthers with 2 M10s and some other random AT units is taxing.... can't wait for them to be gone. The good thing about getting so many units disbanded on the 20th is it forced my armoured unit (10th) to spawn behind the main German armoured unit.

#32: Re: Classic CC4 GC - MOOXE vs Platoon_Michael Author: pvt_Grunt, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 11:28 pm
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PM you need to be careful not to overextend past Ortheuville. Sonenchamps NEEDS to be taken, but your BG in Bastogne has to be replaced by another on the turn it leaves to prevent a US BG sneaking in. The ability to stack units and move them through another unit is sadly missing in the older versions.

If Mooxe has a weak (non armour) BG in Assenois you would be best to NOT rout it or a stronger armour BG will replace it.

Houffalize is another map you absolutely NEED to control to get units through to La Rouch and Baraque Obama.

#33: Re: Classic CC4 GC - MOOXE vs Platoon_Michael Author: mooxe,

Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 4:28 am
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pvt_Grunt wrote (View Post):

Baraque Obama.

You just had to turn this into a political thread didn't you....

#34: Re: Classic CC4 GC - MOOXE vs Platoon_Michael Author: pvt_Grunt, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 9:25 am
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Hoping for the trainwreck thread actually Twisted Evil

#35: Re: Classic CC4 GC - MOOXE vs Platoon_Michael Author: Troger, Location: L4W's place, Australia

Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:07 am
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Mooxe, just read your post on the main page. Bit about the German infantry support gun was interesting. After the watching the video, the gun seemed more impervious to mortars than we have seen in CCs since--is that the case with all AT guns? I actually like that, and I also like it when AT guns can deploy inside buildings. It might not be realistic, but it gives a defender more options and makes those teams more valuable.

#36: Re: Classic CC4 GC - MOOXE vs Platoon_Michael Author: pvt_Grunt, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:05 am
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I also agree with your observations about the game
Smallish maps means fast battles. No crawling around a huge map looking for a fight.
Fixed forcepools means no decisions - just fight!

At the time it was a HUGE change from CC3 to CC4, I can see why people didnt like it as much. But in hindsight it has it's place.

#37: Re: Classic CC4 GC - MOOXE vs Platoon_Michael Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:28 am
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OK Mooxe

Where are you?
Still on Holiday?

#38: Re: Classic CC4 GC - MOOXE vs Platoon_Michael Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:20 pm
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With this much delay in the fighting the Fuhrer might be able to bring fuel and supply's to the front. Very Happy

By himself. Laughing

#39: Re: Classic CC4 GC - MOOXE vs Platoon_Michael Author: mooxe,

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:54 am
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haha... we are going to cont I promise!

#40: Re: Classic CC4 GC - MOOXE vs Platoon_Michael Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:19 am
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Hey,
I wouldn't be me if I wasn't busting someones chops.

Close Combat Series -> Close Combat 4: Battle Of The Bulge

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