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Close Combat Series -> CC5 Stalingrad

#1: Ability to stay hidden Author: Tweed, Location: vodka, bears, snow

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:47 pm
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Guns and machineguns can stay hidden even when firing. How?

#2: Re: Ability to stay hidden Author: Tweed, Location: vodka, bears, snow

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:52 pm
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BTW it is said in the manual that scouts can stay hidden better than others. Is that true when compared to other infantry units? What game data rules this?

#3: Re: Ability to stay hidden Author: mooxe,

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:56 pm
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Thats a good question. The whole visibility thing is kind of a mystery to most of us.

#4: Re: Ability to stay hidden Author: dgfred, Location: N.C., USA

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:37 pm
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I think as long as on ambush all are 'seen' the same. Sneaking it seems that Recon units are harder to see IMO. They also move quicker of course.

#5: Re: Ability to stay hidden Author: mooxe,

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:47 pm
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Yeah they definitely move quicker. Second only to dismounted tank command teams!

I would really love a detailed explanation on how things are seen and how things remain hidden. There are some clues in the manuals but no data like there is for weapon data.

#6: Re: Ability to stay hidden Author: vobbnobb,

Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:23 pm
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The AT Guns and mg teams stay hidden while firing is because none of your troops have spotted them yet. When none of your troops have visual it's only a muzzle flash or general direction the fire is coming from. Sneaking through areas, is a good way to expose them without them seeing you first. Moving fast is the worst.

Recon teams are small numbers os they have a small chance of being spotted. They are used to see what's on the battlefield ahead of your troops so you'll know what's in store for your platoon as far as enemy movement and positions they will appear red on map. You can then move bazooka teams into houses on a road a tank is traveling etc.. or setup an mg team for troops crossing an open field.

#7: Re: Ability to stay hidden Author: Tweed, Location: vodka, bears, snow

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:01 am
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mooxe wrote (View Post):

Yeah they definitely move quicker. Second only to dismounted tank command teams!

I assume that they move faster, due to (1) smaller weight of weapons/ammo per team member and (2) better cohesion.
Small team=better cohesion. They also dont have to stop and wait for slower team members as often, as in the bigger team.

Other small teams (like MGs and AT rifles) are not so fast cause of heavy armanent. You know, "the speed of a group is the speed of its slowest member".

Thats all my IMHO based on the understanding that game mechanics are all mathematically based.

#8: Re: Ability to stay hidden Author: Tweed, Location: vodka, bears, snow

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:22 am
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vobbnobb wrote (View Post):

The AT Guns and mg teams stay hidden while firing is because none of your troops have spotted them yet. When none of your troops have visual it's only a muzzle flash or general direction the fire is coming from. Sneaking through areas, is a good way to expose them without them seeing you first. Moving fast is the worst.

I dont care about game tactics. I want to understand game mechanics.
Not through battle experience, but through cold soulless figures and formulas.

Could you explain this:
- if AT gun operates in automatic "defend" mode,- it is hidden for a long time. Particulary when I switch between defend and ambush.
- if I choose the target (tank) manually , AT gun immediatly becomes visible to the enemy, even before firing first round. Like if I issued command "expose to enemy".

And, hell, my russian DP machine gun was able to stay unspotted while killing three german squad. Distance was not less than 30 meters and not more than 60m.

Other example - "granatometchiki" (russian AT grenade team of 3) was hidden in bldng all the way while attacking Stug from 10 meters with RPG-40 at grenades.
Scouts team of 3 was immediately spotted by the tank after througing first RPG-40 in the same combat conditions (distanse , bldng)

#9: Re: Ability to stay hidden Author: Antony_nz,

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:16 pm
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Aggh close combats deep game Mechanics. Its a mystery. But some just pick up more clues. [ good questions. I have often thought about having various exact statistics

#10: Re: Ability to stay hidden Author: dgfred, Location: N.C., USA

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:19 pm
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Those Russian DPs are hard to kill. I had the same thing happen in my last Stalingrad game... DP killing off two attacking squads before a Stug blasted him/them away.

#11: Re: Ability to stay hidden Author: Schmal_Turm,

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:30 pm
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I was under the impression that if a unit was in an ambush mode that would promote survival. But I have had anything from MG units to SMG units wiped out by enemy units attacking them on what I guess would be a move fast mode. Even being hidden didn't seem to make a difference.

#12: Re: Ability to stay hidden Author: vobbnobb,

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:50 pm
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^ that's because team was weak (basic training or avg team) even in ambush your team didn't know how to hide or enemy were vets. Check out this post
http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=74400&highlight=#74400

I go over the color coding of teams and why some teams act better than others all depending on + or - levels.

#13: Re: Ability to stay hidden Author: Dima,

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:24 pm
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Team bonuses depend on Type value in teams like:

1) Scouts see farther.
2) Snipers hide better and don't take VLs.
3) Vehicle crews are faster than light after bailing out.
4) HTs shoot slower than tanks with same guns.
and etc etc etc

#14: Re: Ability to stay hidden Author: Tweed, Location: vodka, bears, snow

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:33 pm
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Dima wrote (View Post):

Team bonuses depend on Type value in teams like:

1) Scouts see farther.
2) Snipers hide better and don't take VLs.
3) Vehicle crews are faster than light after bailing out.
4) HTs shoot slower than tanks with same guns.
and etc etc etc

Thank you, Dima.
So, there are specific features defined by team type.
As I understand these fetures are in "alsteam' and german teams? Like in LSA:

0 = Command Infantry, 1 = Cmnd Halftrack, 2 = Vehicle Cmnd Tank, 3 = Crew, 4 = Sniper, 5 = Anti-Tank Infantry, 6 = Recon, 7 = Rifle, 8 = Heavy Rifle, 9 = Assault Infantry, 10 = Engineer, 11 = Machine Gun, 12 = Lt Mortar, 13 = Gun Light Infantry, 14 = Gun Medium Infantry, 15 = Gun Heavy Infantry, 16 = Gun Light Flak, 17 = Gun Medium Flak, 18 = Gun Heavy Flak, 19 = Gun Light AT, 20 = Gun Medium AT, 21 = Gun Heavy AT, 22 = Vehicle Truck, 23 = Vehicle Halftrack, 24 = Vehicle Recon, 25 = Vehicle Flak, 26 = Vehicle Lt Assault Gun, 27 = Vehicle Md Assault Gun, 28 = Vehicle Hvy Assault Gun, 29 = Vehicle Jmb Assault Gun, 30 = Vehicle Lt Tank Dest, 31 = Vehicle Md T Dest, 32 = Vehicle Hvy Tank Dest, 33 = Vehicle Lt Tank, 34 = Vehicle Md Tank, 35 = Vehicle Hvy Tank, 36 = Vehicle Jmb Tank, 37 = Vehicle Lt Halftrack, 38 = Vehicle Mortar Halftrack, 39 = Med Mortar, 40 = Company Command Team

But where can I find modifiers' table? Like "+20% view range bonus for scouts"

BTW, today I downloaded Qclone and I can not open any .adb.. When I try it quickly flashes with some kinda message and closes it.

#15: Re: Ability to stay hidden Author: Dima,

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:44 pm
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Quote:

But where can I find modifiers' table? Like "+20% view range bonus for scouts"

no such table - but you can do one basing on your modding/playing experience.

Quote:

BTW, today I downloaded Qclone and I can not open any .adb.. When I try it quickly flashes with some kinda message and closes it.

sometimes it's good to read readme - you need to download java machine (3 files) and some other shit - don't remember the name now (both availabe at CCS download section)

#16: Re: Ability to stay hidden Author: Tweed, Location: vodka, bears, snow

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:54 pm
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Dima wrote (View Post):

Quote:

But where can I find modifiers' table? Like "+20% view range bonus for scouts"

no such table - but you can do one basing on your modding/playing experience.

Quote:

BTW, today I downloaded Qclone and I can not open any .adb.. When I try it quickly flashes with some kinda message and closes it.

sometimes it's good to read readme - you need to download java machine (3 files) and some other shit - don't remember the name now (both availabe at CCS download section)

Dima, obizhaesh ))

I've read readme and tried to act in accordance with it. Tried to find something in the web, but I'm not that good in IT and soft.
Thank you for guidance - now I know that there is no need to google. Just have to pick missing part from download section.

#17: Re: Ability to stay hidden Author: Dima,

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:56 pm
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Tweed wrote (View Post):

Dima wrote (View Post):

Quote:

But where can I find modifiers' table? Like "+20% view range bonus for scouts"

no such table - but you can do one basing on your modding/playing experience.

Quote:

BTW, today I downloaded Qclone and I can not open any .adb.. When I try it quickly flashes with some kinda message and closes it.

sometimes it's good to read readme - you need to download java machine (3 files) and some other shit - don't remember the name now (both availabe at CCS download section)

Dima, obizhaesh ))
I've read readme and tried to act in accordance with it. Tried to find something in the web, but I'm not that good in IT and soft.
Thank you for guidance - now I know that there is no need to google. Just have to pick missing part from download section.

Aktiven slishkom Smile

.

Net frame 2.0 and 3 java files availabe in download section of CCS under misc folder.

#18: Re: Ability to stay hidden Author: mooxe,

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:16 pm
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Good luck getting it all to work on Windows 7.

#19: Re: Ability to stay hidden Author: Dima,

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:19 pm
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mooxe wrote (View Post):

Good luck getting it all to work on Windows 7.

works fine here with both 32 and 64 W7

#20: Re: Ability to stay hidden Author: Tweed, Location: vodka, bears, snow

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:01 pm
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Dima wrote (View Post):

mooxe wrote (View Post):

Good luck getting it all to work on Windows 7.

works fine here with both 32 and 64 W7

I did it ) It works. Many thanks!

Close Combat Series -> CC5 Stalingrad

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