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Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back

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#1: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,

Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 9:14 am
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I was looking how it looks and when I saw this strategic map, I feel, chaos!

This is a very big strategic map and I hate it, there is not strategic at this, never you will see all the maps with a good image. The strategic map should be seen at one single screen as something similar to the old CC4, if at least there was a zoom or some similar.

Another very big detail are the 32bits, clearly the maps a lower at detail and colors, they look a lot worse than Panthers in the Fog. I feel how they were older 16bits maps loaded at this new 32bits CC.

Well, this does not look bad, it looks worse than bad when you compare them with Panthers in the Fog, the differences are horrible.

And they are not only the maps, when I see the map selection screen and I look the images from the soldiers, I feel as if I had made them. Wink

It looks as copy and paste. Sorry but it is the true, most of all close combat gateway to caen looks as a mod, I do not know what will be the price from this game but I would not pay 40€ by it.

At the end, this game is doomed to the failure from the first moment and probably by this reason, they have not published more images or another data from Bloody First.

#2: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Manoi, Location: Brussels

Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 3:18 pm
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I dont' agree for the maps, the style is different and maybe less colorfull but I like the new maps drawings..

#3: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,

Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 4:05 pm
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The style can be different but the maps clearly were made with 16bits and they are more simple.

Last edited by Nomada_Firefox on Mon May 26, 2014 7:52 pm; edited 1 time in total

#4: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: TheImperatorKnight,

Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 6:41 pm
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The strategic map looks nicer than it did in PitF, PitF's strat map was dull. I dislike the undynamic risk-like strategic maps in all CC games anyway, but I highly doubt the inability to see the whole map in one shot is going to drag GWTC down.

I agree with Manoi that the style of the tactical maps is less colourful (they said this was for realism) and I can see your point about the 32bit graphics. Looks-wise, PitF's maps were a definite improvement over the previous games so it is a shame they didn't stick to that style. But I remember people saying on here how cartoonish PitF's maps looked and how THEY were a step backwards, yet now you're arguing GWTC's maps are a step backwards compared to PitF Confused

#5: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Pzt_Kanov, Location: México

Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 7:16 pm
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I'm looking forward to this even though since the beginning you could tell it was like a mod for PitF but with some things added.

That said, I think the stock strat map for Pitf is horrible, nothing to do with the fun to look at CC4, CC5 even TLD with their stylized villages, marshes roads etc even if TLD was so narrow the art involved in the strat map was great. Pitf is so bland. If anything I consider GtC strat map an improvement over stock pitf map with the styled unit strat icons and stuff. I just don't like those NATO symbols, at all.

The whole setting on PitF is kind of dull anyways, should have been an eastern front game since the beginning not this obscure mega failure attack.

#6: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,

Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 8:00 pm
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Quote:

how cartoonish PitF's maps looked

This is funny because at the end, CC games always looked as cartoon but the maps from GTC look as recycled cartoon and the maps from PITF look as good cartoon. Just compare the roads at gateway to caen with the roads at PITF, at GTC are poor and they were painted with a 25% of the details at PITF.

My main point is how GTC looks too much as a mod and it can not be sold by 40€ or $40, it should be cheaper because the quality is lower. In fact, it should be free because it is a blackmail to the players. Yes people this is the true, unfortunately for some of you, I do not live from matrix $ and I can like a lot Bloody First but GTC is a insult to my intelligence and you should judge if it is not a insult to your intelligence.

#7: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: mooxe,

Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 8:30 pm
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I don't understand why the strategic maps get butchered so badly. You could see all of CC4 strat map without scrolling. It was like a chess board. In CC5 you had to scroll, but they also added more details to the battle groups that CC4 did not have. The maps were presented in CC5 in a small enough format that you could see much of the areas you were fighting in without scrolling.

There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to all the user interface changes being made. None of them are an improvements, they are mostly just a change for someone's personal preference or for the sake of making the game look newer. No new information is being presented, in some cases it just makes it harder to see or notice. Now with TBF we are getting a new engine, so be prepared to make even more steps backwards (multistory houses)...

Over the past 10 years eight new versions of Close Combat have been released to the public. All of them have different options, new ones added and old ones removed, but the best ones never carried on to the next. The only consistency, is inconsistency. The last innovative Close Combat was Marines in 2004. It was multiplayer 3v3 and had the most powerful editor to date. Anyways I could go on forever about being disappointed....

#8: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: TheImperatorKnight,

Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 8:30 pm
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I don't disagree with you - the PitF maps look nicer. Again, the feedback at the time was that the PitF maps were "cartoony" and people wanted more "realism", with people saying they were "too bright" and, well here's a LINK to where I was quoting from. That's perhaps why they've gone for more realism in the pale colours etc. But you're correct that the PitF maps look better.

You could argue that every CC game since like CC5 has been a mod. Technically, with the exception of the strategic map, the game hasn't been improved at all since CC2. I also think what you have to remember is that the people working on GWTC are modders, which is perhaps why you think it looks like a mod.

#9: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: TheImperatorKnight,

Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 8:33 pm
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mooxe wrote (View Post):

Now with TBF we are getting a new engine, so be prepared to make even more steps backwards (multistory houses)...

The feedback on my channel for this was terrible. People who were potentially going to buy TBF as their first CC game were instantly put off by this news Sad

#10: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Gunsche,

Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 8:42 pm
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Stratmap is fine by my opinion, maybe just make the map borders somewhat more visible though as I had too look twice before fiding them Laughing

As for the maps: I like the GTCs much more over the PitF ones. PitF were ok but the colouring made them seems very cartoonish like, like in CC2 (although I love those maps!)
Looking at satelite images the world actually looks pretty pale/dull looking when it comes down to colours so GTC would be more accurate than PiTFs colourfull maps.
As for details I see no problems, roads looks fine IMHO.

Btw, StratBGIcons looks awesome. I always wanted them too look like that in the earlier CC games Very Happy

One thing I can complain about is the rather dull menu interface that looks like the PitF one (or is it the same? can't remember right now, PitF is uninstalled atm Wink

)

Another is the vehicle graphics. Urggh, no CC game gets it right. It's my firm belif that the vehicles in GJS for CC5 were the best vehicle graphics I have seen so far. The current ones looks like toy tanks.

#11: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Pzt_Crackwise, Location: Switzerland

Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 10:07 pm
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I personally don't have high expectations from any new CC games anymore. Unless Matrix games sells the source code and all other stuff to another company, I won't expect a proper, long desired CC game to be made anymore. Sorry for the fellow CCS members who also took part in those re-releases but that was just too many disappointments in a row.

#12: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Vandoo, Location: North

Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 1:47 am
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In my opinion Close Combat is not going anywhere until someone has the real will to tackle the core of the game, the source code (engine) from the atomic era.

Gateway to Caen is only gonna be another layer of make-up and lipstick on the same old tired pig...

#13: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Ivan_Zaitzev,

Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 2:16 am
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I like this maps better than the PITF ones. Smile

#14: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,

Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 11:04 am
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mooxe wrote (View Post):

There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to all the user interface changes being made. None of them are an improvements, they are mostly just a change for someone's personal preference or for the sake of making the game look newer. No new information is being presented, in some cases it just makes it harder to see or notice. Now with TBF we are getting a new engine, so be prepared to make even more steps backwards (multistory houses)...

Personally the changes at interface were made for show new changes but they were bad and they converted one good thing at a horrible thing.

About multistory buildings, yes it is a return to the past but we will be playing at a complete new engine which it will add a lot of new features and probably it will fix many others. Just I wait that they do not make stupid changes as the interface at the next versions from the game after bloody first.

Quote:

Over the past 10 years eight new versions of Close Combat have been released to the public. All of them have different options, new ones added and old ones removed, but the best ones never carried on to the next. The only consistency, is inconsistency. The last innovative Close Combat was Marines in 2004. It was multiplayer 3v3 and had the most powerful editor to date. Anyways I could go on forever about being disappointed....

I and probably most of the people, we could easily accept as very good CCMT and the reeditions, the first because it was different and reeditions because they were neccesary if you wanted play at a modern computer. CCMT was a unfortunately game, it was not a WWII game and most of the people did not like it by this reason, if they had wanted, they had made a WWII version with the best maps from previous CC games and thanks to the 3vs3, it had been a better game, even probably they could make it with a linear campaign as CC3.

But..........I remember the words from here http://www.pockettactics.com/news/ios-news/slitherines-new-3d-close-combat-looks-just-like-old-2d-close-combat/ where they say how the old CC games code was impenetrable. I can imagine because the last CC games were not better.

Now we saw few time PITF and I liked it because it adds 32bits and it looked clearly different but I can not think the same with GTC because it looks as a bad mod from PITF.

At this moment, for me Bloody First is the future from the CC games, I feel that when we play it, I will forget easily the older CC games which they share the same engine for more of 14 years! I´m very positive with this new CC at 3D because everything which I saw, it looks good.

I remember when I tested the old G.I Combat, even in the first stages from the testing, we could see how the game was very bad, even the people from strategy first agreed with me at this but they could not change nothing and they release the game, even if they knew how it was bad from the begining, it was because they have a previous agreement with Freedom Games.

The old engine is dead and probably Mooxe agrees with me at this other point, they do not help to the community absolutely nothing when they release a new CC with few or no one modifications each year. Each time that they make it, they kill all the previous mods at development which they were made for a community with a 25% of the players from 14 years ago.

#15: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: dj,

Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 4:46 am
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Nomada, I agree with you...not feeling the strategy map, the scale is bad. "A turn back" ? I think in many ways the original CC2 and CC3 games are better than the rewrites or PiTF. But I like there is something new, with a Caen campaign.

#16: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,

Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 11:41 am
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dj wrote (View Post):

Nomada, I agree with you...not feeling the strategy map, the scale is bad. "A turn back" ? I think in many ways the original CC2 and CC3 games are better than the rewrites or PiTF. But I like there is something new, with a Caen campaign.

Do you go to pay 40€/$40 by a mod? me not.

#17: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: dj,

Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 4:28 am
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Nomada_Firefox wrote (View Post):

dj wrote (View Post):

Do you go to pay 40€/$40 by a mod? me not.

You're preaching to the choir, brother. Mucho expensive, I don't think it's worth more than $20 tops because IMO the game has gotten worse vs original series in many respects.

#18: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,

Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 1:22 pm
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dj wrote (View Post):

Nomada_Firefox wrote (View Post):

dj wrote (View Post):

Do you go to pay 40€/$40 by a mod? me not.

You're preaching to the choir, brother. Mucho expensive, I don't think it's worth more than $20 tops because IMO the game has gotten worse vs original series in many respects.

Why do you think that it can be cheaper? have you seen the price from the other CC games? I´m sure at 100% that you have not seen it lately.....

Close Combat - Modern Tactics 23.99€ + Taxes (released at 2007)
Close Combat - Cross of Iron 31.99€ + Taxes (released at 2007)
Close Combat - Wacht am Rhein 31.99€ + Taxes (released at 2008)
Close Combat: The Longest Day 31.99€ + Taxes (released at 2009)
Close Combat - Last Stand Arnhem 31.99€ + Taxes (released at 2010)
Close Combat: Panthers in the Fog 31.99€ + Taxes (released at 2012)

Now DJ continue dreaming, all the proofs tell us how the game will be too expensive.

I have written the original release dates because the dates from Matrixgames are a lie, I feel that they have replaced them by the day that Slitherine bought the close combat games.

#19: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Sulla,

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 6:46 am
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Hmmm...

Slitherine NEVER bought CC from Matrix, its was not Matrix's to sell!

The interface TBH is in CC1 to CC5 getting better. You have to remember that Microsoft were heavily involved until it went to SSI, thats why the interface has ALWAYS been so great! MS would not let a game out without lots of thought going into the UI.

Slitherine are in NO way interested in CC or making CC better, just more sales! The new maps and UI look pretty awful. Not sure how many of you remember Squad Assault, but even there we kept as close as possible to the CC UI, because it worked. If it aint broke don't fix it!

The next iteration of CC [new engine] should be like a cross between TW and CC. The stat level on CC always sucked. We need a decent strat layer, with movement, supply, build up of units, logistics, fuel, real integration between SAI and TAI, maps and deploy that make sense not boxes. We have the best tactical game invented so far, much much better on a tactical level than Total War. But CC is topped by a game of chequers. Knowing Keith and how Red Phoenix was developed, I would say MS had an awful lot to do with CCs Dev. Aslo, Doug Walker was on the team then. Eric Young was actually hired by Keith as a historian, nothing to do with design. CC as we know it was far more of an accident than design. Keith Z just got lucky.

Now though, its time for CC to move forwards, its not gonna happen with Slitherine. Steve has himself [1 Programmer] and 2 Graphic designers. Thats not a recipe for an awesome new game. Given Slitherines turnover its paltry indeed. Trust me I know the figures!

Sulla

#20: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Conrad,

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:14 am
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Nomada_Firefox wrote (View Post):

Another very big detail are the 32bits, clearly the maps a lower at detail and colors, they look a lot worse than Panthers in the Fog. I feel how they were older 16bits maps loaded at this new 32bits CC.

Sorry to hear that you don't like the graphics. The maps and effects I created for 'Gateway to Caen' are definitely not less detailed than it's predecessor, they actually contain more detail and grittiness compared to PitF. So I don't understand what you mean at all compared what I've heard from other players who'm definitely see an improvement.

Currently I'm working on the maps for 'The Bloody First' and I'm sure you have seen the screenshots. My approach is slightly similar to 'Gateway to Caen' although I'm introducing a few new techniques, overall the quality is similar compared to Gateway to Caen.

Please explain what you are seeing, your feedback is more than welcome!

#21: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:41 am
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Quote:

Slitherine are in NO way interested in CC or making CC better, just more sales! The new maps and UI look pretty awful. Not sure how many of you remember Squad Assault, but even there we kept as close as possible to the CC UI, because it worked. If it aint broke don't fix it!

If you want sell more games, please do not remember us Squad Assault, it and GI Combat, both were two of the worse 3D games from the whole world.

If you want sell games, you must try to make them with the maximun possible features and you must not restric the modding capabilities, if we can not add new 3D models, you limit us to the three original operations and few more.

Quote:

Now though, its time for CC to move forwards, its not gonna happen with Slitherine. Steve has himself [1 Programmer] and 2 Graphic designers. Thats not a recipe for an awesome new game. Given Slitherines turnover its paltry indeed. Trust me I know the figures!

I know very well what you need for a new game and I can accept that they must work at some smaller but there are some limitations which I do not like. I have told them before.

About Gateway to Caen, I must confess how probably I would like buy the game because it will be the last from its specie but I do not want pay 38€ by it, it is too much expensive and probably I will wait. Specially I will wait to the workbook.

If you want know, I have not bought all the CC games because they were too expensive. I have not bought Close Combat - Cross of Iron, Close Combat: The Longest Day and Close Combat: Panthers in the Fog.

#22: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Troger, Location: L4W's place, Australia

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:59 pm
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Sulla wrote (View Post):

Slitherine are in NO way interested in CC or making CC better, just more sales!

I guess they would only be doing what every other "developer" has done once they got their hands on the CC source code--so we are all used to it by now.

That's a pretty bold statement by you really. Weren't you a part of CSO Simtek/Strategy 3 Tactics? The team in charge of the first three rereleases? What meaningful changes or new features did you provide in those releases?

While I don't think that Siltherine has any plan to support and develop CC, they have done some new things. CC: COI, CC:WAR, CC: TLD were a total waste of an opportunity.

#23: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:19 pm
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Quote:

CC: COI, CC:WAR, CC: TLD were a total waste of an opportunity.

Just a simple question. Can you play CC3, CC4 and CC5 at a modern machine? the answer is very probably no. By these reasons I would not say that they are a waste of opportunity.

Another example, I love the xwing games and I would be very happy if remastered version from this old games were released again.

#24: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: pvt_Grunt, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:41 pm
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The intent of the re-releases was to make the older games esp CC3 available to more people. CC3 was going for up to $80 on ebay and they saw an opportunity with an updated release that can run on newer machines.

They certainly DID oversell the product, claiming new features and AI which were really much the same as before.

The thing which causes the most complaints is the soldiers behaviour under fire, which was changed to counter the famous CC5 "Crawl of Death" which was also loudly criticized.

#25: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:23 pm
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pvt_Grunt wrote (View Post):

The thing which causes the most complaints is the soldiers behaviour under fire, which was changed to counter the famous CC5 "Crawl of Death" which was also loudly criticized.

Over the years, Iv started to wonder if the dev have no idea what the did to cause the ”girly Soldier” behaviour (crawl to death)… As non seem to like this enhancement, and its still in every version since COI..

#26: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Sulla,

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:06 pm
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Quote:

When we found the source code, it was sitting in Keith Zs Garage, in 2 mouldy CD holders and several non working HD's in a falling apart cardboard box. The code we got off those disks and HD's was so bad and so full of useless commented out crap, that it took way out past CoI just to clean the code up [get rid of all the crap in the code, it still referenced CC1 and DOS in CC5] NOTHING had ever been taken out of the code, just commented out! It still had the code for CC2 Mac in the CC5 code! The biggest part of those releases was getting to a point where you could make changes and start to do things. Also do you think we had a road map from Doug and the old designers, telling us what everything did? What was useful, what could go etc?

The idea with CoI was to get the modding community as part of the game. Why did we include mods, MMCC, a plugin installer? A plugin creator? Is there an updated plugin creator in any version after CoI? Any easy way of creating plugins for CC in any of the later releases.

We spent a ton of time making improvements. I still have the fix lists! You have no idea. A pretty bold statement. Really Stalky? You of course could do much better? Clueless....

S

#27: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Sulla,

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:01 am
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Ok Let me tell you something.

The reason we got the code was that we got Destineer and Atomic out of the crap with the USMC. The USMC had paid Destineer 3.6 Million to develop a FPS that was supposed to link with Atomic s Red Phoenix and be playable on both levels. Atomic got 3.5 million for their part in designing Red Phoenix.

Around 18 months into development of RP, [Atomic were developing their own engine] they realised the engine was not gonna work. So they had to start from scratch and used a modular existing engine. [This was when Mick Conmy - Mic_Xe5] went to work for Atomic. At that point we realised just what a mess RP was. At a meeting in Orlando at I/TSEC the inter-service simulation conference Keith brought RP and everyone realised it was 3.5 million gone with some junk code to show for it. I think the last build is actually on CSS, I know its on CSO.

Atomic had used almost of of the 3.5M up and there was nothing to show for it. Destineer took Atomic over and signed us up to use the existing CC code [which we had been using to make changes in CCM for the USMC] to build and deliver 2 things to the USMC so they would have something to show for the money spent. Destineers FtF, the USMC said they could not use, it was eventually used as an anti drug Sim, which in the end the USMC said "we don't have a drug problem WTF do we need a drug trainer for?" But At lest it was viable and Destineer had a saleable commercial product in First to Fight. That still left major holes in the USMC contract with Destineer/Atomic as part of the SoW [Statement of Work/Requirements] in the contract required an Anti Terrorism capability in CC and a JTAC [Joint Terminal Attack Controller] capability.

We got the code because we produced an AT version and a JTAC version of CC. The AT version utilised 3 sides, asymmetric warfare, placing of IEDs and a whole raft of new stuff. Do you know what we got to fund the development and deliver these 2 products? 9 months and $80,000 for AT and $80,000 for JTAC. [Out of a total of 7.1Million between Destineer/Atomic] That's the money we had to develop CoI with and AT + JTAC. We struggled like hell to get payments out of Destineer to carry on work on both AT/JTAC and to develop CoI. We were always behind on payments to everyone as we simply could not get our payments on time. It was the perseverance of Steve and everyone that got CoI out of the door. The funds we got or should have from Matrix were to develop CC further. We had even discussed taking on an intern extra programmer to work with Steve. [Based on what we would be getting from sales of CoI]

The split that was worked out was 25% to Simtek 25% to Matrix and 50% to Destineer on sales of all re-releases. It was up to Matrix to publish. Simtek to develop and Destineer to collect royalty. Simtek NEVER got 25% from Matrix. I got ill and Matrix took over the entire code/source etc while I was out of he picture ill having had a heart attack and other major health problems. When I was better, none of what had been planned had taken place and Matrix had effectively subsumed my company. Matrix was taking their own 25% [which was not bad for the little they had to do] and my companies 25% giving them a 50% of all sales. At this point any payments to me ceased. I had NEVER signed code or company over to Matrix, but while ill, they had taken everything over. I left it to Dave, who was I thought a friend to look after for me until I got better. He did that ok! Since then I have received nothing for any release, I never sold the rights to CC to Matrix or sold my company, my company was NEVER signed over to Matrix. BUT Matrix had carried on paying the devs and added some from the CC Community. CoI sold MUCH MUCH better than anyone had expected, but I got sod all from the sales. Less than 2% which stopped after abt 12 months.

Matrix then got into major difficulties partly resulting from a lost lawsuit and other things, which meant they needed a buyer. Slitherine came along and bought Matrix, a major asset of which was CC. CC crosses the border between hardcore wargame and casual gaming, which makes it a much better seller than traditional hex based games. We within Simtek had wanted to develop a new engine and build an entirely new CC. Still top down. I have desihn docs by Luer / Atilla / Mick and others to this end. BUT, due to the appalling cash flow, non payment by Destineer and Matrix, we were bolloxed. Matrix had effectively stolen the company while I was ill, Dave was busy bad-mouthing me and the rest of Simtek to everyone who worked for us while I was ill. t was then part of the sale to Slitherine. Neither company ever paid for it and I am on welfare!

My dream had been to 1) get the code. 2) Clean it up and develop a re-releases with fixes and mods, as well as win XP/Vista/7 compatibility. 3) Use the re-release money to develop the next generation CC. But that meant realistically Steve needed help, new engine, more graphic designers etc. We had even discussed this with Steve and everyone. Matrix put a stop to that. I was even told while I was ill, no more re-releases were being worked on as they were not worth it. [before I had seen CoI figures] and the next release was already being worked on.

I am left with heart probs, kidney and blood/iron probs living on welfare, while everything I worked for was taken from me. I am shortly to go into hospital again as my heart is playing up.

Matrix and Slitherine dont care about CC in any way shape or form as I do, I got into the CC scene as I loved the game, I worked for a long time to get the code, it took me 4 years to work the deal to get it. I wanted to use the CC community to make CC better. So despite NEVER paying for it or me signing over any rights, Matrix and Slitherine have carried on selling the re-releases, making a ton of money and paying zero for it! Only now are they even making any attempt at a new engine and thats with Steve working on 2 games at once with 1 or 2 graphic designers working on the new engine!

There is much much worse and much more than this that Matrix did to me and others, but I am not going into that!

Next time you feel like telling me how I could have done better, know WTF has gone on Stalky.

I still have the source code up to LSA, and the finished build of JTAC, but effectively what use is it?

Why do you think I am using part of my welfare which hardly leaves me enough to bloody eat to build CSO? on a decent fast, dedicated server in the UK? Because I have no interest in CC? I know Matrix/Slitherine will eventually dump all the mods and maps and it will only be here and CSO that has the files! We are already finding files, mods maps that were about to be lost. I don't want that to happen. As CC1 thru 5 is already up on abandonware sites, have toyed with the idea of putting them online for download.

Oh and after we delivered CC AT/JTAC to the USMC after losing the 7.1M to the Destineer/Atomic projects, the USMC sensibly moved to Use VBS.

Sulla

#28: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Troger, Location: L4W's place, Australia

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:33 am
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Sulla, I made those comments, not Stalky.

It certainly is enlightening hearing your perspective and what you went through personally. But look at it from my (and probably a few others) perspective--cause you are right, I wasn't involved in all those business deals, I just play and love this game. You and people associated with you went around CSO/Matrix and these forums being complete blowhards about how amazing COI was (and subsequent rereleases were)--anyone who spoke out was attacked and/or ignored. The question was always a simple one: what favor did were those releases for those that already had CC3-5? And who was clamoring for rereleased versions CC3-5 anyways? Come on, you think a included plugin manager and Windows 7+ compatibility means anything? Gameplay-wise, feature-wise, what really improved in COI (or really for that matter even WAR, TLD)? Nothing--actually, the gameplay got worse! I get trying to infuse some new players to the series (which didn't happen), but why someone who owned CC3-5 buy a game for $50 was the exact same thing but played worse with no meaningful new features? I'm supposed to be happy because it works on newer versions of Windows, and because at least it was something? My copies ran fine on the OS I was using at the time (XP), and you can run CC3-5 in compatibility mode in Windows 7 and Windows 8 (I know, because I've done it). I was realistic when COI came out and figured COI was needed to get some revenue generated so time could be spent making meaningful changes to subsequent releases--but then WAR came, and TLD, and LSA, and then PTIF. Now we have what, eleven versions of Close Combat and the community is on its last legs? It's a complete mess.

I don't doubt you (along with many others) put it work behind the scenes to make some things happen, but those rereleases, to those that already had the originals and had been around here for a while, don't add up to much.

Last edited by Troger on Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:23 am; edited 1 time in total

#29: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Troger, Location: L4W's place, Australia

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:45 am
—
The source code was just sitting in Keith Z's garage? He should have just released it to the public, if possible--maybe then any CC development could have been community-driven and away from all this business deal bullshit.

You have the LSA source code? Could you release it publicly?

Last edited by Troger on Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:21 am; edited 2 times in total

#30: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:35 am
—
The story from CC games told by Sulla, very funny, it remembers me to the corruption problems in Spanish goverment and obviously with CC, somebody was a disaster directing the company.

You had the resources and you did not know how manage resources properly.

Quote:

My dream had been to 1) get the code. 2) Clean it up and develop a re-releases with fixes and mods, as well as win XP/Vista/7 compatibility. 3) Use the re-release money to develop the next generation CC.

I knew it and I accepted it but this is the reason because at this moment many people is tired because at first place, you or the man at charge have not made it very well from the begining.

Sorry but it is the true. From the begining we had the mods, the community and people like you tried win more with them. We did not need more at this point with exception from better tools, at least faster tools. If you had made a new CC with everything the new features that you could add and after it the re-releases, it had been better.

I know, it could be worse, Keith did not like the mods. I remember when people was playing to CC3 and we do not know if someday Keith would shut down all the mods.

About Matrix and Slitherine.....I´m sure at 100% that they will not work for free but after they took the CC games, we saw a new CC game at 32bits with all the features that we wanted for years, now we are waiting other and we wait a complete new CC game at 3D as it must be.

About mods and if Slitherine dump all the mods and maps.....I have been at more modding communities, the modding communities are not made by the creators, always they are made by the people making the mods. Never I waited more from them, the same that I waited from you or the others before.

About save the files, at this moment, the point from center everything at one site paying the server....I find it non-sense option, you can use skydrive, google drive or one thing very ignored by most of the CC community, Moddb but I feel how you want control everything...., I know because I have my own site and I like control where are all my mods but of course I do not pay a server at UK, it would be a waste of money. My server is in the west coast from U.S, it is cheaper and I save my files at other free servers. It is enough for this. At other point, I have my H-D for save the files forever.

Ah you forgot tell us about GICombat and Squad Assault. Two of the biggest piece of shit from the CC story.

At the end, everything by the money. Nothing strange, the money corrupts.

#31: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: dj,

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:37 am
—

Troger wrote (View Post):

The source code was just sitting in Keith Z's garage? He should have just released it to the public, if possible--maybe then any CC development could have been community-driven and away from all this business deal bullshit.

You have the LSA source code? Can you give release it publicly?

Amen to that...who knows how to get a hold of Keith? I knew this was going to be the case...only when Atomic was directly involved (and probably Keith himself) was CC at its best in my opinion.

We got to get that source code or get Keith back involved to actually make the game improve , not just the graphics but the game play and core features.

#32: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:16 am
—

Quote:

We got to get that source code or get Keith back involved to actually make the game improve , not just the graphics but the game play and core features.

You forget two points, he was not a friend from the mods and he wasted a lot of money at this.

At my opinion, these guys had their chances, they wasted a lot of money from us and now I want see what happen with Slitherine because it looks better. Even if the new game is made by Steve (really I´m not sure if Steve and Sulla are the same persons) and two man more, now it looks better than 7 years before.

#33: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Troger, Location: L4W's place, Australia

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:43 am
—

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

It certainly seems that way, doesn't it? Every development team has either apparently ignored the comments on it, thought it better that way, or must have not known how to fix it.

#34: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:07 am
—
Didn’t say you had no clew Sulla.

However.

Your 2 latest posts give an impression.

But, I feel for the situation your in. And your health problems.

Sulla wrote (View Post):

Quote:

Sulla wrote (View Post):

Ok Let me tell you something.

The reason we got the code was that we got Destineer and Atomic out of the crap with the USMC. The USMC had paid Destineer 3.6 Million to develop a FPS that was supposed to link with Atomic s Red Phoenix and be playable on both levels. Atomic got 3.5 million for their part in designing Red Phoenix.

Around 18 months into development of RP, [Atomic were developing their own engine] they realised the engine was not gonna work. So they had to start from scratch and used a modular existing engine. [This was when Mick Conmy - Mic_Xe5] went to work for Atomic. At that point we realised just what a mess RP was. At a meeting in Orlando at I/TSEC the inter-service simulation conference Keith brought RP and everyone realised it was 3.5 million gone with some junk code to show for it. I think the last build is actually on CSS, I know its on CSO.

Atomic had used almost of of the 3.5M up and there was nothing to show for it. Destineer took Atomic over and signed us up to use the existing CC code [which we had been using to make changes in CCM for the USMC] to build and deliver 2 things to the USMC so they would have something to show for the money spent. Destineers FtF, the USMC said they could not use, it was eventually used as an anti drug Sim, which in the end the USMC said "we don't have a drug problem WTF do we need a drug trainer for?" But At lest it was viable and Destineer had a saleable commercial product in First to Fight. That still left major holes in the USMC contract with Destineer/Atomic as part of the SoW [Statement of Work/Requirements] in the contract required an Anti Terrorism capability in CC and a JTAC [Joint Terminal Attack Controller] capability.

We got the code because we produced an AT version and a JTAC version of CC. The AT version utilised 3 sides, asymmetric warfare, placing of IEDs and a whole raft of new stuff. Do you know what we got to fund the development and deliver these 2 products? 9 months and $80,000 for AT and $80,000 for JTAC. [Out of a total of 7.1Million between Destineer/Atomic] That's the money we had to develop CoI with and AT + JTAC. We struggled like hell to get payments out of Destineer to carry on work on both AT/JTAC and to develop CoI. We were always behind on payments to everyone as we simply could not get our payments on time. It was the perseverance of Steve and everyone that got CoI out of the door. The funds we got or should have from Matrix were to develop CC further. We had even discussed taking on an intern extra programmer to work with Steve. [Based on what we would be getting from sales of CoI]

The split that was worked out was 25% to Simtek 25% to Matrix and 50% to Destineer on sales of all re-releases. It was up to Matrix to publish. Simtek to develop and Destineer to collect royalty. Simtek NEVER got 25% from Matrix. I got ill and Matrix took over the entire code/source etc while I was out of he picture ill having had a heart attack and other major health problems. When I was better, none of what had been planned had taken place and Matrix had effectively subsumed my company. Matrix was taking their own 25% [which was not bad for the little they had to do] and my companies 25% giving them a 50% of all sales. At this point any payments to me ceased. I had NEVER signed code or company over to Matrix, but while ill, they had taken everything over. I left it to Dave, who was I thought a friend to look after for me until I got better. He did that ok! Since then I have received nothing for any release, I never sold the rights to CC to Matrix or sold my company, my company was NEVER signed over to Matrix. BUT Matrix had carried on paying the devs and added some from the CC Community. CoI sold MUCH MUCH better than anyone had expected, but I got sod all from the sales. Less than 2% which stopped after abt 12 months.

Matrix then got into major difficulties partly resulting from a lost lawsuit and other things, which meant they needed a buyer. Slitherine came along and bought Matrix, a major asset of which was CC. CC crosses the border between hardcore wargame and casual gaming, which makes it a much better seller than traditional hex based games. We within Simtek had wanted to develop a new engine and build an entirely new CC. Still top down. I have desihn docs by Luer / Atilla / Mick and others to this end. BUT, due to the appalling cash flow, non payment by Destineer and Matrix, we were bolloxed. Matrix had effectively stolen the company while I was ill, Dave was busy bad-mouthing me and the rest of Simtek to everyone who worked for us while I was ill. t was then part of the sale to Slitherine. Neither company ever paid for it and I am on welfare!

My dream had been to 1) get the code. 2) Clean it up and develop a re-releases with fixes and mods, as well as win XP/Vista/7 compatibility. 3) Use the re-release money to develop the next generation CC. But that meant realistically Steve needed help, new engine, more graphic designers etc. We had even discussed this with Steve and everyone. Matrix put a stop to that. I was even told while I was ill, no more re-releases were being worked on as they were not worth it. [before I had seen CoI figures] and the next release was already being worked on.

I am left with heart probs, kidney and blood/iron probs living on welfare, while everything I worked for was taken from me. I am shortly to go into hospital again as my heart is playing up.

Matrix and Slitherine dont care about CC in any way shape or form as I do, I got into the CC scene as I loved the game, I worked for a long time to get the code, it took me 4 years to work the deal to get it. I wanted to use the CC community to make CC better. So despite NEVER paying for it or me signing over any rights, Matrix and Slitherine have carried on selling the re-releases, making a ton of money and paying zero for it! Only now are they even making any attempt at a new engine and thats with Steve working on 2 games at once with 1 or 2 graphic designers working on the new engine!

There is much much worse and much more than this that Matrix did to me and others, but I am not going into that!

Next time you feel like telling me how I could have done better, know WTF has gone on Stalky.

I still have the source code up to LSA, and the finished build of JTAC, but effectively what use is it?

Why do you think I am using part of my welfare which hardly leaves me enough to bloody eat to build CSO? on a decent fast, dedicated server in the UK? Because I have no interest in CC? I know Matrix/Slitherine will eventually dump all the mods and maps and it will only be here and CSO that has the files! We are already finding files, mods maps that were about to be lost. I don't want that to happen. As CC1 thru 5 is already up on abandonware sites, have toyed with the idea of putting them online for download.

Oh and after we delivered CC AT/JTAC to the USMC after losing the 7.1M to the Destineer/Atomic projects, the USMC sensibly moved to Use VBS.

Sulla

#35: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:48 am
—
Given it some time to reflect.

Sulla wrote (View Post):

“You [Sulla] have no idea”. A pretty bold statement. Really Stalky? You of course could do much better? Clueless....S

Sulla wrote (View Post):

Really Stalky? You of course could do much better? Clueless....S

This sort of null argumentation…

It’s like someone buying a new car, and then after 2 years its rust everywhere, and the car won’t run when it’s raining…

And then when complaining about the crap car, the car manufacturers CEO “Mr Sulla” come and say:
“Really Stalky? You of course could do much better? Clueless....S “

#36: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:05 am
—
no?

#37: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Sulla,

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:17 am
—

Quote:

Quote: <Select>
We got to get that source code or get Keith back involved to actually make the game improve , not just the graphics but the game play and core features.

You forget two points, he was not a friend from the mods and he wasted a lot of money at this.

At my opinion, these guys had their chances, they wasted a lot of money from us and now I want see what happen with Slitherine because it looks better. Even if the new game is made by Steve (really I´m not sure if Steve and Sulla are the same persons) and two man more, now it looks better than 7 years before.

First off, please bear in mind, I started from the community. CSO started off as the first major site to host the mods ans maps. This was way before I even setup the domain closecombat.org . Many of the files would have been lost forever as they were all hosted in small sites which gradually all shut down. Its nothing to do with control. ClubSSI hosted a few mods, but that died fast! I ran MGO and Wargamer as well as CSO, MGO hosted files, but as soon as it shut down all files hosted were lost. I fought to keep the MGO domain going so the sites and mods would stay online, to no avail. It goes back so long now, god I was young when CC1 came out. TBH, if we had gone to maybe Paradox to publish the game, we would be in a much better position than now. But I had worked for Matrix and knew Dave [thought I did] so trusted him.

Keith is not a programmer and a crap designer. Keith had $3.5 million to develop the next gen CC, but what did we get? Not even a playable game. The Red Phoenix that is online for download, that's what he came up with. Nothing, a total POS. Eric Young has Cancer and was anyway only ever taken on at Atomic as a history expert. Doug Walker was the project manager, he was the one who made CC shine! Him and the NASA AI specialist. The AI was and is still unique!

What I and most of Simtek wanted was to make CC as good as we had always wanted it to be. Just like you we knew/know the weaknesses. Why if they could be fixed would they be left? There were a lot of fixes went into every version, whether obvious or not. You say we were enthusiastic about CoI, would you not be? This was our as much as anyone elses dream come true. But given the severe funding crisis and time, we were lucky to even get it out on sale. The fix lists were enormous. Steve worked through them week after week. Steve is one of the best programmers I have come across, he is also a really nice guy! The problem with the current engine is you change one thing to fix something which breaks something else. When we first got the code it was almost impossible to tell what did what and what was actually obsolete. Steve spent a good SIX months, just cleaning the code up, so it was possible to start using it and making changes! You try anf fix pathing or crawl of death and introduce other problems. Thats why we wanted to do a new engine. But Matrix was losing money, my company was simply taken over by Matrix. Dave immediately fired everyone apart from Steve

Steve at this point knows the CC engine better than anyone, even Doug or the old [Atomic programmers who coincidentally worked on EYSA]. Steve is Steve aka The_Blood, he and I are most certainly different people. I am English Steve is American lol. I remember how shocked he was when we first got the code. You have no idea! Steve used to work for Microsoft, developing for them. He is VERY good and when it comes to CC, as devoted as any of us. Don't you remember who made up Simtek? Ross [Future] Han Boss [Attilla] Eli Precht [Luer] Steve McClaire [The_Blood] Andrew Williams [Schrecken] Shane Cameron [Southen Land] Randall Grubb [Snr_Drill] Jim Martin [Oddball] Mick Conmy [Mick_Xe5]. Given the modding experience in Simtek, don't you think we all wanted what you wanted? If we had a CC Hall of fame don't you think most of them would be on it? I only found out about 3 or 4 weeks ago that Matrix paid poor Shane $5 a map for all the LSA maps! The moment Matrix was involved any hopes of using the money to fund development of CC was gone. If Matrix was willing to treat me as it has, how important do you think future development of CC is to them?

Quote:

TBH, I think the ONLY way CC is going to get where it needs to go is if the community gets involved and builds an open source version that's locked down tight so no one can sell out to any company. Its owned by all the developers and contributors. Yes I have source code for CC, I have source code from CC1 thru to LSA. I was out of the picture and so disillusioned with CC, with games and everything, its taken me years to even get back to a place where I can think of CC without nearly having another heart attack. That was my dream, to use CC, the rebuilds and make a new CC. 25% would have paid more than enough for that, but no, Matrix had to take that away from me too! I have so many CC design docs done by Luer, Attilla, Mick etc.

Quote:

About save the files, at this moment, the point from center everything at one site paying the server....I find it non-sense option, you can use skydrive, google drive or one thing very ignored by most of the CC community, Moddb but I feel how you want control everything...., I know because I have my own site and I like control where are all my mods but of course I do not pay a server at UK, it would be a waste of money. My server is in the west coast from U.S, it is cheaper and I save my files at other free servers. It is enough for this. At other point, I have my H-D for save the files forever.

Nomada, all of those sites are a rip off, I know about ModDb and other sites, I even tried the cheap US server as recommended by Mooxe, but found them them useless, at least in my case. I have a solid server, with incremental 5 minute backups. I am not going to lose files. If you are hosting with anyone, cloud, skydrive etc, you have NO guarantee that they won't go under. The amount and number of different technologies we have seen in the last 15 years, the only safe way is to have them on a decent server with backup. Me and KG have already found loads of mods that were missing, unfinished or on the verge of vanishing. Its got sod all to do with control, but I would hate to see hundreds if not thousand of hours of work that has gone into any mod lost.

Honestly, having been involved in CC and wargames in one way or another for the last 15-20 years, the ONLY way forward for what we want out of CC is community based. The money has gone to Destineer, Matrix, Sitherine, Atomic. Keith Z was violently opposed to modding in any shape or form and Slitherine are no better than Matrix. I know how much they make and what is put back. Do you honestly think Slitherine is any better than Matrix?

Nomada, Squad Assault is almost funny enough to be a parody. I will tell you about it in the next post. Honestly you would not belive GIC and EYSA lol!

Cheers- S

#38: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Sulla,

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:59 am
—
Nice one Stalky,

When you don't control the money coming in from the sales. You lose control of the entire project.

I lost control when Matrix published CoI. CEO is pretty meaningless when you have zero control and are not getting paid. Added to that I was ill and got iller. At that point Matrix who were supposed to look after CC for me, look after my company, shut me out of my own company stopped paying me and totally ripped me off. [NOT ONLY on CC!]. I guess when Dave at Matrix said keep your friends close and your enemies closer he considered me an enemy! Some mate he turned out.

CoI was far from a rusty car! Stalky, I am sure given the same chances you "could" have done much better. Really I lost everything I had dreamed of doing because I got ill, which allowed Matrix to simply subsume Simtek. I had pretty much zero influence after CoI. It took so long and was such hard work to even get the code, you have no idea how much seeing Matrix do what it has kills me. Thats one of the reasons I left CC for so long. Just utterly fed up and depressed, was very ill. I had had enough of being ripped off by so many people.

It was a major blow to me finding Ryans Forum gone!

Its very easy to say in hindsight, this should have been done or this. Hindsight is a great fixer :)

Shaun

#39: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:12 am
—

Quote:

Nomada, all of those sites are a rip off, I know about ModDb and other sites, I even tried the cheap US server as recommended by Mooxe, but found them them useless, at least in my case.

I do not agree, they would be a rip off if you would pay anything by them but they are free at 100%. I feel that you have not tried them and you do not want use them because you can center everything at you and control all the files. At moddb at least people out the community would know about it. The lack of publicity probably has killed the chances from get new players at cc games.

And please do not tell me that a rent server is secure, the unique option secure is save the original files under our ass. Wink

The day that you can not pay it, you will lose them.

About the missing mods, some of the mods that you tell how they were missing, they were missing at your site, I saw how you uploaded my 1946 mod but always it was at my site and yes, I use free servers but thanks to it, I have been online for years.

Quote:

The money has gone to Destineer, Matrix, Sitherine, Atomic. Keith Z was violently opposed to modding in any shape or form and Slitherine are no better than Matrix.

What about simteck? please do not tell me that you were working for free. You were part of them and now because they are ignored you, you are against them. Nothing strange but the people from the CC community, they do not want more than play new games and the mods if they are made. One thing which at least by the moment, they are making it.

About Squad Assault.....sorry but I can not ignore the true. These are the credits from this disaster of game. http://www.allgame.com/game.php?id=43786&tab=credits
I´m sure at 100% how you knew about the bad gameplay from the game, if I´m not wrong, you are Shaun Wallace and between other credits, you were Playtest Coordinator. Really this game was a blackmail to the CC community because it was the older G.I Combat with few changes, another blackmail.

Now if you love the CC games, you would give a chance to Steve and Slitherine, at least I want see what they are making. If the first CC game was made at a garage, the new made with a good 3D engine, one engine used at many other good games, I feel how it can not be as one Squad Assault.

#40: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Pzt_Crackwise, Location: Switzerland

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:29 am
—
@Sulla: I really feel sorry for what you have gone through mate and I am glad that you feel better now. Even though I wasn't much active at CSO, I was very happy to hear that it went online again. So welcome back!

So you say that you have the source code and you would ideally like an open-source project to be initiated for developing the next CC. Have you ever considered making a Kickstarter thing for such a project? I have been thinking for the last couple of months, seeing how successful Kickstarter campaigns for many other games have been, such a thing can surely be done for a CC game as well.

#41: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Bungarra, Location: Murchison region, West Australia

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:08 am
—
Soooo. Sulla, I & a lot of others are hearing what you are saying.

That it hasn't turned out like we all would have hoped is to say the least a let down...

We are all passionate about this game , & reality says to me that if it was not for you the CC community would be much poorer

Don't beat yourself up about it.. nor let anybody else.. we all want the same thing... but we don't know how to go about it.

I really do hope TBF go's back to selectable battle units.. or at least the option to do so...

That was why CC5 (& similar) was & still is the most playable game of the lot... why they have shifted from this format is beyond me..

Do you have the source code or does matrix own it?

Just a bit of hope there that.... maybe one day.........

#42: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:34 am
—
First off I'm very sorry to hear about your ill health and how the Co. went under.
Take care of yourself,It's more important than a game or the Mods your trying to save.

It does kinda make sense now.
You guys spent countless hours working on stuff we knew nothing about only to hear TONS of complaints from us when WAR was released.
Kinda makes sense now how so many people involved with CC on the business end no longer participate in the forums.

But from a consumer stand point I cant change my opinion of WAR just because you guys got screwed.

The Girly soldiers is horrible.(I don't know how to fix it)
The deployment bug I've posted is horrible.(Been there since CCIV)
Mortars are still too powerful.(I don't know how to fix it)
LOS is horrible.(I don't know how to fix it,or the time/know how to correct it.Compared to CCIV)
AI is horrible,the AI movement on the strategic map is horrible,the use/non use of support for the AI on the strategic map is horrible.

As for giving US the code or an open source project?
Who here can do it?
I can almost imagine 30 people working on it part time and ending up with another huge mess.Or squabbling over how it should be.

I'd love to see a Free-Deploy editor for the re-releases.
Pzt_Kanov would love to have someone update QClone.
But we don't have those type of guys anymore.
The only person to have done any tools for CC in the past 10 years has been Mafi,cant have one guy,its just too much.

I'm not trying to be mean here,its just the facts from a consumers point of view.
And to honest I wish you hadn't dropped this bomb on us.
Just another dagger for me.Another reinforcement that I'm probably not getting a patch for WAR

Here's hoping TBF will evolve into a game to be worth having on my PC for 20 years like CC has.(Actually since '99 for me)

#43: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:46 pm
—

Quote:

First off I'm very sorry to hear about your ill health and how the Co. went under.

I have not read nothing about if Sulla was sick, the unique sick was Eric Young with cancer, very sad obviously.

Quote:

As for giving US the code or an open source project?
Who here can do it?
I can almost imagine 30 people working on it part time and ending up with another huge mess.Or squabbling over how it should be.

I find it impossible if you have not a guy as Steve. At other point, they should have started a kickstarter or release the code years ago, not now when everything is worse for them or him.

Specially I do not like things as this.

"I love the CC". ---------->but first you made a company for sell us the re-releases. Even if you did not put the high price, even if the game is not at your hands, you have your amount of guilt.

What can he offer us with this special critic about the CC owners? Really nothing. At least Steve and Slitherine will give us new games, even if we like them more or less, it is more than launch the guilt to others.

If I had worked at some of this proyects, I´m sure that at least I would take my part of guilt.

#44: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Sulla,

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:03 pm
—
Hia Guys,

I have actually thought about Kickstarter. I really do think that working together is the way to go. ALL of us.

When I did the initial mail out from CSO, I got several replies from programmers. What we need is a design. Like I said I have several design docs, by several people. Anyone who wants to read them can. I do however think we need a private forum, anyone interested can sign up. Its just if we or anyone here wants to do this properly it needs to be away from Matrix/Slitherine or anyone else! Open ource once we start and have a project, but until then it would need to be the community and not open to Matrix etc.

I just want a better CC. There are hundreds/thousands of free game engines of all kinds out there. We are really looking at the simplest type of game engine as we still want to down. CC as Mick_xe5 wrote HAS to be top down.

Theoretically I own or my company owns the rights to the code, it was NEVER signed over to Matrix, ergo Matrix had no right to sell it or my company to anyone, but I have learned to be VERY wary. Dave stole far more than just the CC code from me. So now I think it has to be community based. To keep it safe from people like Matrix and Slitherine. I think if we started it would take on a momentum of its own. I know Luer and Attila are gone. But there are still people about! Tszjid? Mafi? Nomada? Platoon, I am sure we can find graphics guys. I was looking at how many have gone, but there are still guys around. We would need a project NDA, but with the aim of going totally open once we are under way. Southern Land told me that he has made his last map after his pc died and he lost all his most recent.

Game engines now are very different from way back and some are very modular. What we need is a clear overall vision. We set a project manager, design team, graphics team, programmers. A test team/head. If we started with an organization/structure of some kind, then you can avoid the chaos. Look at the huge projects that are completed as open source. I know how the industry works. It really is no different than creating a mod! Think about it! With the exception, that you have a clean slate, a good reference model and a good design! I think it has to be community based. To get all we want out of it. I fought to get the code, I wanted what we all want. The problem is that within the framework of the existing engine its essentially not possible. We can go at our own pace. There used to be a CC Open source project. Anyone remember? That was one guy!

Its either do it ourselves or wait for Matrix/Slitherine to deliver. I have been waiting an awful long time now! I want the community to own the game. Lok at the mods for the game, some are truly amazing.

I am pretty sure some of the older modders will be back at some point, the community is far from dead! Our whole world is being taken over by one thing or another and we are left with less and less. Forums are vanishing because of Social Media sites. Sites about history and people are vanishing as Wikipedia becomes the arbiter of all knowledge. [We cannot even add Simtek/CSS/CSO to wiki]

I really think think that community based is the only way we will 1) get what we all want. 2) Keep the game in the community and not be beholden to anyone! 3) Give the game multiple options so its possible to please a wide spectrum of players. In fact keeping it very optionable is one way of ensuring a great base game from day one!

S

#45: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Sulla,

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:24 pm
—
Stalky, sorry mate, my mistake!

Nomada, I am not here to put up with guilt slinging. I started CSO up again purely so I could keep my beloved game alive and do something for the community again. I have tried to explain what happened.

I know how much of the blame IS MINE. Why do you think I have been gone for 4 years?

S

#46: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:40 pm
—

Quote:

I have actually thought about Kickstarter. I really do think that working together is the way to go. ALL of us.

Do you want more money? I do not go to put a single coin at one thing which I do not see very very very finished and running. More ore 3 million of dolars for nothing........sorry but here at spain we have thousands of example as this at politics. Search at google "Castellon Airport", more of 150 millions of € for nothing.

#47: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Sulla,

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:50 pm
—
Nomada,

I was answering a question. I NEVER GOT PAID the last time, so what more could I get?

S

#48: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:59 pm
—
Why do you need money for a free proyect made with a free engine? This is a link from a free proyect http://www.stexcalibur.com/ and they did not ask for money.

#49: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: dj,

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:02 pm
—
Sulla - I vaguely remember now hearing that Keith Z. not having any interest in helping promote the game after Atomic opted-out or lost their financial interest. It's a shame he is being stubborn about sharing the source code or helping promote mods. Whatever happened to Atomic, it is totally out of business?

#50: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Pzt_Crackwise, Location: Switzerland

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:37 pm
—
@Nomada: I brought up the Kickstarter (community funding) possibility.

So I think if I have understood correctly, I see now two development possibilities:

1. Work on a new game as it had previously been done for the mods. People work on it on their spare time, noone gets paid (apart from donations etc.). The modders now also can tweak the source code to implement some changes.

2. Make a professional development plan. Explain every process transparently, i.e. who will be involved, the timeline of the project, the required financial plan, etc. Make a Kickstarter campaign and raise funds.

Method (1) is the good old mod development approach. No commercial things involved, every willing modder/developer/tester contributes as they wish.

Method (2) if done correctly is more efficient. It may also result in people dedicating themselves full-time and acquiring support from external programmers/artists. However, why should the supporters trust the developers and give their money prior to obtaining a game is a question which should be answered very transparently. That is why the Kickstarter campaigns for games are usually succesful for people/companies who have already proven themselves as one of the best at what they do and just try to develop something without producer interference. That's why it may not be a good approach in this case.

@Sulla: By the way I haven't understood the ownership status of the CC source code. So now, Slytherine owns it. And you also claim to own it? What happens if you tweak the code and make a new game? What happens if you make a commercial game and what happens if you just make a free non-profit game?

Last edited by Pzt_Crackwise on Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:49 pm; edited 1 time in total

#51: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:49 pm
—
I do this for fun or a hobby if you want.
I haven't touched my Mod in months and probably won't for months to come.

I'm not one you'd want to rely on to have to work on something.

Even with fishing if I micromanage it to death,down to the littlest detail it takes the fun out of it.

Sorry

#52: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Pzt_Crackwise, Location: Switzerland

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:02 pm
—
Another thing:

For those familiar with the Jagged Alliance games, a very successful voluntary modding operation (Method (1) described above) was carried out throughout the years for Jagged Alliance 2.

The JA community somehow (I don't remember how) obtained the source code. It was initially written in C and was very tough to mod. Then a team of modders converted it to C++, making it much more easier to modify. Then other people developed the 1.13 mod (basically a huge realism mod) and now that game is being modded endlessly and has transcended the original game in many aspects.

So what I am saying is, it is possible. But it requires dedicated people, who have spare time for such projects. But the worst of all is the CC community has dwindled in numbers in the last years and the number of people who understand from such things decreased a lot also with it.

#53: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:18 pm
—
Tell me, why do we need a different CC game made at parallel? for give the revenge to Sulla? I do think that it be neccesary when Slitherine is making one new. Why do you think that it will be a failure? at least if you think it. Just because it is made by a team of three persons? How many people were working in the re-releases? probably no more.

Sorry but the arguments for new different CC game are zero and I do not know because we must support to the guy who he made the re-releases at first place, I have seen thousands of comments around the world about how these re-releases put the CC community at a slow death. Sorry but it is his fault and now is too late for change the events.

At other point, I go to give you a good proyect, why do you not start a new mod with the incoming Gatheway to Caen? or use your time making better tools for the game? if you love CC games really and you do not love more the money, this is my challenge. If you like CC mods, you have the better source at this moment for them.

Yes, Gatheway to Caen can look as a mod, I feel the same from the CC re-releases but at least GTC has a complete engine with all the features requested for years. Do you remember Sulla how many times have we asked you about load troops in vehicles? because all the community requested it for many time when you were making the re-releases at simtek. Wink

#54: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Sulla,

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:27 pm
—
Nomada,

I would not build a new CC just for revenge. Having had 1 heart attack, I am not at all into wasting my time.

We worked on and got the men loading into vehicles for CC:AT. We got deployable sandags and fortifications for use in deploy. Numerous things like that were already worked on for AT, but never implemented into CC commercially. Ask Matrix why not!

@DJ

Keith is VERY strange, I met him a few times. He was never the great mind behind CC, that was Doug Walker. Keith was just lucky and he owned Atomic. Destineer own Atomic or the name which is all thats left of it. After Atomic failed on Red Phoenix, that was it, the company was folded. After burning through $3.5 million.

Quote:

At other point, I go to give you a good proyect, why do you not start a new mod with the incoming Gatheway to Caen? or use your time making better tools for the game? if you love CC games really and you do not love more the money, this is my challenge. If you like CC mods, you have the better source at this moment for them.

Ok, I thought this was a useful discussion and that people wanted to know what had happened and maybe get a realistic angle on CC in the future from Slitherine! If not for the re-release [which I GOT NO MONEY FROM] CC would have died already. Nomada I do not need to prove anything to YOU or anyone else. The fact I am on welfare I think says how I was treated and how much I made from CC! JHC.

Well that was kind of pointless. I trust Steve, I dont trust Matrix OR Slitherine!

I have been screwed over so many times in the course of Simtek, but somehow I have to prove to you Nomada?

@ Nomada - I am going back to keep looking for mods and files and updating my useless site Nomada!

Cheers - Sulla

#55: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:13 pm
—
Sulla. I have nothing against you, only I have told things which probably many people have thought.

About Matrix, I have asked sometimes about the problems and new features, even when you were at charge. Usually I do not hide what I think.

Quote:

If not for the re-release [which I GOT NO MONEY FROM] CC would have died already.

I can agree with it but I know many people which they think how the re-releases were a failure. Probably if you had made a new CC with the same engine from Wacht am Rhein, it had been better.

Quote:

Nomada I do not need to prove anything to YOU or anyone else.

Yes, you are right. You have proven to yourself to the community around all these years. All we have seen how things were...

About mods, there are other thing which many people think and I do not agree with it at 100% but I can not find too arguments for it. You released one game each year and very few mods were made for them because people always was waiting to the next game. At my opinion, there were not too mods because there was not a good way for to make easily a strategic map. I know how most of the people making mods would agree with me at this.

Quote:

@ Nomada - I am going back to keep looking for mods and files and updating my useless site Nomada!

I have not told that it was a useless site. Only I have told how at this moment if you use free servers, you can give a good service and win a lot of good publicity about your work and the work of others. One thing very very very bad from CC series these years, it was the publicity, if you do not enter matrixgames, you could not know about the games. I feel that now it goes to change it a lot with the release at steam, at two days, everybody loading steam service, they will know about Close Combat Gateway to Caen and I´m sure that many people will discover these games.

About your site, you should not have uploaded the old data base because there are threads with spyware, it can be a problem if google detect them and you are added into the black list, I can tell you by experience how difficult is get out the list when you are added.

Take care, Sulla, nobody want see you with another heart attack and please if you love CC games, give a chance to Bloody First, it is our best and fastest hope.

#56: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: DAK_Legion,

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:41 pm
—
Source Code FREE for all CC Players;)

I manage source code,I create my own mod free for the community;)

an obsolete game with and obsolete enginnery should be free for everyone

#57: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: dj,

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:10 am
—

Sulla wrote (View Post):

@DJ

Keith is VERY strange, I met him a few times. He was never the great mind behind CC, that was Doug Walker. Keith was just lucky and he owned Atomic. Destineer own Atomic or the name which is all thats left of it. After Atomic failed on Red Phoenix, that was it, the company was folded. After burning through $3.5 million.

Sulla - interesting...I did not know the whole story behind Atomic. Keith was at the right place at the right time.

That begs the question then, what ever happened to Doug Walker? Sounds like he's the missing piece that made CC2 and CC3 such a huge success, yet to be duplicated since.

#58: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Antony_nz,

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:02 am
—
I think the maps looks good. The maps have a far more gritty look than the White washed PITF map. It looks cartoonie yes, but still. Looks nice....

As for the Strategic map. I don't like it. I loved the Strategic map for CC4 and 5. But that's also because Bulge and the break out in the Cotentin peninsula are a far more interesting battlefield too look at, Apposed to the big green flat earth of France. Should of picked a better operation to simulate.

Added:
When ever i imagine up of a great mod idea, the first idea that starts me thinking is the Strategic map.
And all the great mods have had great locations to use as a strategic map.
E.G Woodlands with Berlin city in the middle ect...
Thats my two cents. Great thread.

Last edited by Antony_nz on Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:50 am; edited 1 time in total

#59: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Sulla,

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:45 am
—

Quote:

@DJ
Doug W, now works at DAS Entertainment. I have no idea why as his boss is a total Shithead! He has worked the as lead dev and project Manager for several years. They build military simulations which is where I found him.

@Nomada
Its hard as language IS a barrier. My Spanish is way worse than your English lol. With Squad Assault, where to begin?

We had 2 programmers who had totally opposite ideas of what SA should be. One would do one thing and then the other would undo it. Eric tried to get them working together as did I, but man..... ! We got to the point where we were passed our release date and we had to go gold. We decided we had to go gold and Eric assured us it would be ready and bugs fixed. Then 4 weeks before we went gold Eric vanished for 5 weeks. Turns out he had got a young girl pregnant and left his wife, which did not help us at all as everything was then on release schedule. Without Eric, we could not get changes made, fixes put in, etc etc. We had no idea of this at the time, we just new Our lead Designer had vanished. All we could do was fix what we could with the 2 devs, then patch it ASAP, hoping Eric would turn up. We had so many really good testers on that game, Sarge, Snr Drill, Boar and tons of others. But if no one is there to listen its kind of hard.

It was like that all the way through, Eric just kept vanishing for one or two weeks. He was knocking off this girl, which was where he was vanishing to.

It was so bad it was almost comical. But was also painful as lots of us had worked hard to make it better!

Squad Assault Second Wave had Doug Walker as lead dev, thats actually MUCH better, have you played it?

S

#60: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Sulla,

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:13 am
—

Quote:

About your site, you should not have uploaded the old data base because there are threads with spyware, it can be a problem if google detect them and you are added into the black list, I can tell you by experience how difficult is get out the list when you are added.

@ Nomada

The attachments were always stored as files outside the DB, so no spyware is possible. Also the import to phpbb, wont allow attachments in the DB so for 2 separate reasons no spyware could be there.

Added to which, the forum has an anti malware module, as well as the server running 2 separate anti Virus programs. Did you think I would put a forum up riddled with spyware?

The source code, belongs to my company. I never signed it over to Matrix and never sold my company to Matrix. When I as ill, Matrix were supposed to look after my company, they took it over effectively. There were numerous contracts I never got paid for. Matrix laid almost everyone off apart from Steve. I did not find out until later, I was in hospital at the time. I had to have weekly venesections for almost 18 months, which is truly crippling. Then my hear gave out, 99% blockage followed by a major e-coli kidney infection. This was when the re-releases were going out and when Matrix cut me out of my company. I have no idea how, except that some kind of not entirely legal action was taken by Dave/Matrix and then refusing to pay me, for anything! So you can see why I am kind of bitter about Matrix. I got the code, brought to Matrix as I thought [Dave was a mate] to have him steal everything from me.

No Nomada, I am way past revenge or regret, what do you do? I made the choices, I only have MYSELF to blame! I am sure Steve will do a fine job on the next engine, but 1 programmer and 1/2 graphic designers is not boding well.

The suggestion of an open source project where everyone can do their bit and everything it completly transparent just seems a good way to get what we have always wanted. We have after all been waiting some 15 years on every release hoping - this time ....... But it never is is it?

S

#61: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Sulla,

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:20 am
—
@ Antony,

What CC has always needed was a simplified but realistic TW like strat layer, with supply, stacking units, fog of war, logistics, bridges, eailways, real worl targets that make for strategy. We already have a great tactical game [with some fixes] but the SAI game has always sucked.

Having both, a great Strat layer, with real objectives [numerous] so the defender attacker are always having to guess, as in real life what the objective is, what to defend, where to move units etc.

Add this so its linked to the maps, with gains reflecting reality in both SAI and TAI. No more of deploying in a minute square, no more game of chequers Strat layer! Thats what would make CC great.

S

#62: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Manoi, Location: Brussels

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:20 am
—

Sulla wrote (View Post):

I am sure Steve will do a fine job on the next engine, but 1 programmer and 1/2 graphic designers is not boding well.

In fact there are 5 persons who work on tbf...

#63: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:26 am
—

Sulla wrote (View Post):

The source code, belongs to my company. I never signed it over to Matrix and never sold my company to Matrix. When I as ill, Matrix were supposed to look after my company, they took it over effectively. There were numerous contracts I never got paid for.

Sulla wrote (View Post):

I got the code, brought to Matrix as I thought [Dave was a mate] to have him steal everything from me.

Sulla

You say you / your company own the CC code. The CC-code is protected by copyright.. Right?

You say Dave/Matrix stole the code from you. They have put out games with that code in it. Right?

Given above, it seems you have a strong case here.

Maybe you have already....my thoughts:

Is it perhapps time to consult a layer who is specialized in lawsuits for copyright issues.
Suppose you can have one work without interim fee, just for the percent of the end result.

/S

#64: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:30 am
—
BTW: Doesn’t this make Matrix Games a pirate?

So the ppl working on the CC-projects are thus pirates, being a part in pirating CC…
I always suspected that, especially TJ and Shrecken.

Laughing

#65: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Sulla,

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:51 am
—
@ Manoi

Steve told me it was just him programming part time as he is also working on the re-release.

He said 1 or 2 graphics guys part time. Given Southern Land told me he is giving up map making etc. But then, I am no longer privy to insider info Manio, Wink

so can only go by what I am told.

@ Stalky,

I know mate, its being looked at very carefully at this minute. It really depends on Matrix/Slitherine and if I can stand to actually put up with fighting them. Oh I would win, but the fight...... After the last few years, I am unsure mate! 1 heart attack is enough! Destineer signed the code to Simtek to develop, I then got Matrix to publish, they never had the dev rights to the code, just to publish the end result, we had rights for both military use and commercial to develop the code and use it with the proviso that it was never sold retail only online. I signed with Chris Sharpe at Destineer and Peter Tamte/Paul Rinde. Chris and I were the ones who worked the deal out. He was prior to this a Col in the USMC and was tech adviser to Destineer on First to Fight! He then took over contract management and other stuff for Destineer.

@Manoi, so 1 part time [Steve] and 4 full time?

S

#66: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:24 am
—

Quote:

We had 2 programmers who had totally opposite ideas of what SA should be. One would do one thing and then the other would undo it. Eric tried to get them working together as did I, but man..... ! We got to the point where we were passed our release date and we had to go gold. We decided we had to go gold and Eric assured us it would be ready and bugs fixed. Then 4 weeks before we went gold Eric vanished for 5 weeks. Turns out he had got a young girl pregnant and left his wife, which did not help us at all as everything was then on release schedule. Without Eric, we could not get changes made, fixes put in, etc etc. We had no idea of this at the time, we just new Our lead Designer had vanished. All we could do was fix what we could with the 2 devs, then patch it ASAP, hoping Eric would turn up. We had so many really good testers on that game, Sarge, Snr Drill, Boar and tons of others. But if no one is there to listen its kind of hard.

I do not trust you too much with this by one reason, Squad Assault was clearly a clone from G.I Combat, I played the beta from G.I and the gameplay was a shit months before the end but our comments were ignored. I remember how your team had a deal with strategy first and they must pay you and publish the game, even if it was a piece of shit, I know it because some good people from strategic first told me about it.

At the end, with Squad Assault, you tried to sell us again the same pìece of shit.

Quote:

Squad Assault Second Wave had Doug Walker as lead dev, thats actually MUCH better, have you played it?

I have not played it, but you can imagine what I think about it.

I know how in the begining, nobody knew how make a 3D game, there were a lot of piece of shit but the people leading these two proyects (or I should say one where you obtained three games), they made a bad job and this was not a programers problem. You should have seen how the game was a piece of shit from the begining.

At the end, you made three games with one game, always trying deceive us. Of course, you were not at all the games but you were in the second and you should know how it was the same piece of shit from G.I Combat.

Fortunately for us, very few people bought these games.

Quote:

The attachments were always stored as files outside the DB, so no spyware is possible. Also the import to phpbb, wont allow attachments in the DB so for 2 separate reasons no spyware could be there.

Kapersky detected some of your threads as spyware. I do not remember what of them but I saw them. You can trust me or ignore me. It is free.

Quote:

There were numerous contracts I never got paid for. Matrix laid almost everyone off apart from Steve.

Always thinking in the money............and profits.

But really I can not imagine that you were not payed if you had really a contract with them. Perhaps I try ask them because I would like know the story from both sides, at my country there is a sentence for it, the true at 50%.

At the end, modding is for free. If you love CC games, you would release freely the code. At other way, all here will think forever how you want win money again with it for sell us again a re-made.

Close Combat Marines and RAF should have been released years ago, now.........they are not more than a old book which you read thousands of times. They are useless.

Quote:

I am sure Steve will do a fine job on the next engine, but 1 programmer and 1/2 graphic designers is not boding well.

I feel that you have not told everything. First they are making the game with a no errors engine, one very tested and with support. Second by the moment it looks better than all the work made by teams joined by you with more people, more money and more.

Revenge is not a option here. Here, there are players and modders, all we make it for free and for enjoy.

Quote:

The suggestion of an open source project where everyone can do their bit and everything it completly transparent just seems a good way to get what we have always wanted. We have after all been waiting some 15 years on every release hoping - this time ....... But it never is is it?

You can make your proyect but if you ask for money to the CC community, I will not agree with this.

#67: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Sulla,

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:39 am
—

Quote:

@ Nomada

Its called both sides of the story! Ask away. Of course you WILL be told the truth. I am the one living on welfare!

Now just give it a rest. You ask for things, info, when you get it, it has to be someones FAULT.

Kasppersky is famous for False Positives. I am using BitDefender 2014 and its shows nothing. Neither do either of the server installed AV or Anti Malware. Now stop trying to put people off visiting. Is this what you have been going around saying?

Man.....

Now, I have had enough, think I will just go back and work on my virus infested site Nomada! You just keep waiting, everything will be great like the last 18 years of waiting.

Talk about community! Do something for yourselves? lol Smile

I was offering a choice and no strange as it may seem to you NOMADA, it was not about revenge, it was about getting the CC we have always wanted.

Good luck mate!

S

#68: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:56 am
—

Quote:

Kasppersky is famous for False Positives. I am using BitDefender 2014 and its shows nothing. Neither do either of the server installed AV or Anti Malware. Now stop trying to put people off visiting. Is this what you have been going around saying?

No really. You feel that I´m attacking you but you are wrong. Just I have told many things told by other people about your answers and I have given you a piece of information. If the people visit or not your site, it is your problem. Of course, if nobody know about it, I do not know how they go to visit it.

Quote:

t was about getting the CC we have always wanted.

All we have always wanted or all you have always wanted?

For you, everything is a conspiracy, if you have the copyright about the CC code, I do not think that Steve would publish nothing with the same name......

If you have another hearth attack, it will be your problem. Wink

In fact I do not trust you at this. I do not want be bad but I go to repeat again it because everybody are thinking it. When you out Matrix, we saw a CC with all the features asked for years.

Sorry man but you had your chances. Accept this or return to us with more than false promises, dreams from a old era and attacks to the real people which they are working at this moment.

#69: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:25 am
—
Hi Sulla,
I got a couple questions if you will?

What code do you own exactly?
Original versions of CC or all the re-releases too?

If its the re-releases do you have anyone on your end who can work on it?

Is the code your willing to give us still as bad as you say it is when you got it or would we be getting a cleaned up version of it?

Does it come with a Manual?
How would anyone know what does what within the code?

If you have the code for the re-releases who could make even just minor changes like change the deployment zone from a small square to say a rectangle?
Could say LSA get 2.vs 2 H2H?
Digging In?
Towing of AT_Guns?

A manual on how to create/implement exploding Bridges?

Can anyone who can create a CCReq Editor?
If so could they take it farther and be able to do Ops. and GC's?

If nothing else can you help us get rid of the Girly soldiers within the re-releases?

Last edited by platoon_michael on Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:41 am; edited 2 times in total

#70: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:28 am
—
I'm not interested in stepping on anyone's toes here.

And certainly have no interest in doing "ANYTHING" Illegal!
But I would love to have the CCReq editor I mentioned and a 2on2 H2H

Edit:
I always thought it was Free deploy I wanted untill this morning when I looked at CCReq.

Duh Embarassed

#71: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Sulla,

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:04 pm
—

Quote:

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:58 am Post subject: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back
Quote: <Select>
Kasppersky is famous for False Positives. I am using BitDefender 2014 and its shows nothing. Neither do either of the server installed AV or Anti Malware. Now stop trying to put people off visiting. Is this what you have been going around saying?

No really. You feel that I´m attacking you but you are wrong. Just I have told many things told by other people about your answers and I have given you a piece of information. If the people visit or not your site, it is your problem. Of course, if nobody know about it, I do not know how they go to visit it.

Quote: <Select>
t was about getting the CC we have always wanted.

All we have always wanted or all you have always wanted?

For you, everything is a conspiracy, if you have the copyright about the CC code, I do not think that Steve would publish nothing with the same name......

If you have another hearth attack, it will be your problem.Wink In fact I do not trust you at this. I do not want be bad but I go to repeat again it because everybody are thinking it. When you out Matrix, we saw a CC with all the features asked for years.

Sorry man but you had your chances. Accept this or return to us with more than false promises, dreams from a old era and attacks to the real people which they are working at this moment.

Listen you fucking idiot! I am not blaming anyone. I made my choices! I live with with the consequences! Its NOT a conspiracy. I GOT the fucking code you moronic fucking jerk! There would be NO CODE for them to be working on if I had not worked the deal to get it, Do you understand that? Ask Steve, anyone involved, where the code came from and who got it! Do you honestly think that everyone is out to RIP YOU off? When we did SA we were hoping to create something better than GIC. It had FUCK all to do with selling the same thing again. You are the one inventing conspiracies. I KNOW what happened, ask Jim, Steve, whoever, who got the code and where it came from. How we first got it and what it was like.

You sit there, risking fuck all apart from the odd 30 bucks, and bitch on and on, you or others asked me what happened. I told you. Jesus, why the fuck did I bother! Yes like all of my life if I have another heart attack it will be my fault [strange you find that funny!] I take responsibility for my choices and the results. I don't need some moron who is clueless about what really went on to accuse me of making up conspiracy theories.

I remember years back when you first started modding and came on the scene Nom! You used to be pretty ude back then, I remember banning you from Wargamer forums more than once as did VicKevlar.

Oh show me one thread which shows a virus/malware. One link! Then we can see!

Now, I gave everything up to try for my dream, that was stolen from me, by a friend. FACT. You don't want to believe that fine. But stop hurling insults around. I was not out and nor were the dev team at Simtek out to rip anyone off, And you would not have either the new re-make or the new engine if no one had ever had access to the code engine. Is that siple enough? Do you understand? Or am I still part of some conspiracy to rip off all CC players. God I made SO MUCH money, did so well, thats why I am living on welfare from the state now.

Man, always gotta be a reason, out to rip people off. Is it so HARD to believe people had dreams?

I find you hard to understand Nom. False promises? Nomada, Fuck off back under the rock you crawled out from! People like you utterly disgust me!

Sulla

#72: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:15 pm
—
Lets respond to my post......

The one below his

#73: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: DAK_Legion,

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:53 pm
—
@ Sulla

If you have a idea of project for Cc...why not open a post and explain to all community your plans????

Would be interesting for all..i want to read your project.

#74: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Sulla,

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:20 pm
—
@ DAK, Stalky, etc,

I will start a thread over on CSO.

Ideas - Thoughts - Designs - New Engine - Onwards .....

I have had enough of this crap. I am sorry to the rest of you, but Nom was being unfair and throwing around crap.

I have enough in my life without putting up with that.

S

#75: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:01 pm
—

Quote:

Listen you fucking idiot! I am not blaming anyone.

When people start to insult, they show us how they are really............be careful, you can have a heart attack again. Wink

Who knows, perhaps you were expulsed from the matrix proyects by one good reason. I do not know but at least I have not insulted you before and I do not go to make it now.

Just a personal thought, the CC games are better without you working in them.

Quote:

I will start a thread over on CSO.

Ideas - Thoughts - Designs - New Engine - Onwards .....

Yeah, please go where you can delete the answers from the people.....when you do not like them.

Quote:

I remember years back when you first started modding and came on the scene Nom! You used to be pretty ude back then, I remember banning you from Wargamer forums more than once as did VicKevlar.

Sure I have been banned from more of one site because I told the true about many things which they did not like to the administrators which they acted as dictators. I remember to one CSO member which I do not remember the name launching insults to me and I was the man banned but he no.....nothing strange. I suppose that if you can waste $3 millions at nothing, you will not be a great administrator....

Quote:

If you have a idea of project for Cc...why not open a post and explain to all community your plans????

Yes, he could make it but he entered at one post who curiously was a hard critic from me to the last Gatheway to Caen game. Obviously he wanted flame to Matrix and Slitherine.

But do you know one thing? lately I´m thinking buy the game, specially I changed my mind when I read " the final release of the current game engine" and I start to thought, what if I buy it and I try to make one new mod, perhaps a compilation from my previous mods at one, one where you can fight at normandy, caen, holland and the ardennes at a full campaign, if you do not use all the maps and you changes the elements at maps, it can be made.

#76: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:15 pm
—
Ah one advice for everybody, Sulla has published one small game made similar to one CC5 by one guy many time ago, I remember how it was published and it was deleted by Sulla and his people.

The advice is, be careful with this program, it can burn your graphics card, it will run easily to more of 70 frames and your graphics card will be very very hot. The program itself will tell you about it.

If you do not trust it, I remember you how the first re-make from CC games had this problem and it is very usual at new games because they do not make a limit for the frames from graphic cards.

#77: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Sulla,

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:16 pm
—
Listen oh great wise Nomada,

Even allowing for your poor English, I made it clear that Keith and Atomic got 3.5 Million. Simtek got $80,000 each to build Jtac and AT as well as get CoI out.

Do you understand?

No one deletes threads and you were as usual banned for being a troll and trouble maker and not just by me. I am going where I don't have to listen to YOUR delusions and your crap. People are just as capable of posting there as here.

You don't change Nom do you? Is that why Spain is in the mess its in? Everyone is as arrogant and SURE they are right as you?

Bye Nom, someone I truly did NOT miss the last 4 years. Oh and calling everything you say a truth because people don't like it is semantics! Just words for those who don't agree with you. Your posts would actually be quite short without all the quotes wouldn't they Nom?

Sulla

#78: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Sulla,

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:20 pm
—
Shit,

You got over there fast Nom.

Any more wise words. Do you know what an example is? It was not published and it was not deleted. Man you are an idiot!

If you have NOTHING positive to contribute, go back and create a new Barbie mod or whatever you are working on!

You are a TROLL

Sulla

#79: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:45 pm
—
Again when people must start to attack how write other people, they show us very few from them. Only I can say how I can understand more of one language and even if I support insults like these, I have a complete site made at english. At least I´m not rancorous.

Sulla wrote (View Post):

No one deletes threads and you were as usual banned for being a troll and trouble maker and not just by me. I am going where I don't have to listen to YOUR delusions and your crap. People are just as capable of posting there as here.

Unfortunately it is not true. I have read this opinion from other people and do you know one thing? I was not the guy who he told the answer about the conspiracy. There are more sites in the world, in fact I have saved at other sites part of your comments about CC story because they are interesting. Probably you feel how if you start the insults, all the thread will be deleted, do not worry, I will save each word of you, even your insults.

At the end, more and more insults......I can see your respect about the work of others, one work made freely and for all the community. What is constructive for you? Laughing

#80: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: vobbnobb,

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:57 pm
—
IGN: Why do you think there have been so few other real-time wargames? (We can't even think of any others recently apart from Sid Meier's last game.)

Keith: Wargames are a niche market. And as we get further and further away from the time period we're covering, I think we lose more and more people. I had a 20-something person tell me he didn't know the difference between World War II, Korea, Vietnam, and the Gulf War. It's also extremely difficult to design a game that's really a simulation at its core

#81: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: dj,

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:30 am
—
Trainwreck! Nomada you are sounding like a complete narcissist. Everyone is entitled to opinion or to argue...but to throw that comment out to Sulla about the heart attack was really uncalled for and malicious.

Plus even when I agree with you about excessive pricing...you still wanted to argue and patronize me anyways. Maybe you are just an angry person but that was seriously lame. Do you not realize how much of a pendejo you sound like?

#82: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:37 am
—

Quote:

Everyone is entitled to opinion or to argue

Yes, I agree. But nobody should insult to the others when they do not like the answers. Now who is the narcissist, you insulting me or me?

#83: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Sulla,

Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:52 pm
—

Quote:

Sulla. I have nothing against you, only I have told things which probably many people have thought.

About Matrix, I have asked sometimes about the problems and new features, even when you were at charge. Usually I do not hide what I think.

[quote:d5dda52679]If not for the re-release [which I GOT NO MONEY FROM] CC would have died already. [/quote:d5dda52679]
I can agree with it but I know many people which they think how the re-releases were a failure. Probably if you had made a new CC with the same engine from Wacht am Rhein, it had been better.

[quote:d5dda52679]Nomada I do not need to prove anything to YOU or anyone else.[/quote:d5dda52679]
Yes, you are right. You have proven to yourself to the community around all these years. All we have seen how things were...

About mods, there are other thing which many people think and I do not agree with it at 100% but I can not find too arguments for it. You released one game each year and very few mods were made for them because people always was waiting to the next game. At my opinion, there were not too mods because there was not a good way for to make easily a strategic map. I know how most of the people making mods would agree with me at this.

[quote:d5dda52679]@ Nomada - I am going back to keep looking for mods and files and updating my useless site Nomada![/quote:d5dda52679]
I have not told that it was a useless site. Only I have told how at this moment if you use free servers, you can give a good service and win a lot of good publicity about your work and the work of others. One thing very very very bad from CC series these years, it was the publicity, if you do not enter matrixgames, you could not know about the games. I feel that now it goes to change it a lot with the release at steam, at two days, everybody loading steam service, they will know about Close Combat Gateway to Caen and I´m sure that many people will discover these games.

About your site, you should not have uploaded the old data base because there are threads with spyware, it can be a problem if google detect them and you are added into the black list, I can tell you by experience how difficult is get out the list when you are added.

Take care, Sulla, nobody want see you with another heart attack and please if you love CC games, give a chance to Bloody First, it is our best and fastest hope.

Hia Nom,

Lets call a truce, we both love CC and truly want what is best for it. I have always thought you a good modder, so the barbie was very flippant.

I SO HOPE the new game [not GtC] but new engine is a step forward, as it really is the last chance now. So many things need to be added or fixed, a clean sheet, from a vanilla CC would be a good starting point. I have lots of faith in Steve! Just NOT matrix or snakeboys....

Sulla

#84: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,

Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 4:31 pm
—
No problem. But I do not see me as a good modder, just a modder enjoing his time.

Just a point, your information about how many people were working at bloody first was very old.

#85: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Sulla,

Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 5:10 pm
—
Steve Told me about 6 weeks ago!

S

#86: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,

Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 6:29 pm
—

Sulla wrote (View Post):

Steve Told me about 6 weeks ago!

S

I do not go to reveal my sources but it is bigger than three man.

FMJ, you are not different from Sulla angry and you as him are showing me how you are and obviously you are not a good guy but at difference from Sullar, you are nobody and I do not need answer more your answers, clearly I can ignore you.

#87: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Sulla,

Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:33 pm
—

Quote:

Nomada, shut your cumguzzling dicksucking mouth. You're a fucking scumbag and your comments make that very clear. You think its ok and funny to joke about someone having a heart attack? Over your little toy soldiers game! ? Grow up and get a life you Spanish trash. Fuck off.

Thanks FMJ, was starting to wonder why I had come back at one point TBH Wink

I was very pissed off when the posts happened, but what can you really say to that? I am v glad Steve is on the series still! Actually the reply to you says an awful lot. You are Nobody? hmm... Interesting concept!

Man the community has changed in 4 years! So many people gone and the strangest people doing most of the talking lol! I have always wanted to just get to the next CC and have the game we have all dreamed of. There are some people that kind of just don't get that!

Code:

Nom, I just know what Steve told me, I really don't care if its more or less, so long as its a decent game in the end! You keep your sources lol :)

Its good to see CC on Steam, maybe hope for the series yet!

Cheers - Sulla

#88: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida

Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:11 pm
—

Quote:

About the missing mods, some of the mods that you tell how they were missing, they were missing at your site, I saw how you uploaded my 1946 mod but always it was at my site and yes, I use free servers but thanks to it, I have been online for years.

Think this is what started all of this above and it was all mis interpreted.

Nomada, what Sulla meant was that many other mods have been found. Some of yours also several months ago when I PM'd you at your site, remember and you looked for some of those plugins for CC5?

A few others have been "found" also, but not officially put onto his site yet. Am thinking they are going to be put into installer form 1st.. Yes.. I am trying to figure out how all that works... A few beta mods, some CC3 mods unfinished, but with all the pieces.

Hope this helps clear things up Sulla, Nomada.

#89: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Troger, Location: L4W's place, Australia

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:03 am
—

Nomada_Firefox wrote (View Post):

But I do not see me as a good modder,

At least your honest about one thing!

Jejeje, just kidding buddy!

#90: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:54 am
—

Quote:

Nomada, what Sulla meant was that many other mods have been found. Some of yours also several months ago when I PM'd you at your site, remember and you looked for some of those plugins for CC5?

I recomend you read all the answers. He wanted start a proyect for alternative CC game with our donations. After spend a lot of money......

Sulla, you go to continue this thread alone. I do not see to any modder with exception from me answering to you. I find very few useful this conversation and because I do not go to agree with you about start a alternative CC proyect with our donations, I have told everything.

#91: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:38 am
—

Quote:

He wanted start a proyect for alternative CC game with our donations. After spend a lot of money.

Hi Nomada,

I know that Sulla is indeed interested in developing another CC like game. He has mentioned it to me several times in communications that he was looking for developers, or people that he could have help with this project, but I know **nothing** and have heard **nothing** about any donations for it's development yet.

Really am having a hard time understanding what is going on here. Am thinking it all boils down to mis communication, as I have read the entire topic.

JS/Werf

#92: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: mooxe,

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:03 am
—
I really don't understand how Sulla can develop on the Close Combat engine. It looks like its owned by Matrix/Slitherine. I don't know what the complete truth is to all this dirty laundry aired in this thread because we only see one side, but it would seem that possession is 9/10s of the law. Considering the history here, who's really going to sign up for developing Sulla's source code into a new Close Combat?

Sulla if you really are privy to this source code, help make tools like a CCReq or another type of battle editor. IMO that's much more realistic.

#93: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: dj,

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:48 am
—

mooxe wrote (View Post):

I really don't understand how Sulla can develop on the Close Combat engine. It looks like its owned by Matrix/Slitherine. I don't know what the complete truth is to all this dirty laundry aired in this thread because we only see one side, but it would seem that possession is 9/10s of the law. Considering the history here, who's really going to sign up for developing Sulla's source code into a new Close Combat?

Sulla if you really are privy to this source code, help make tools like a CCReq or another type of battle editor. IMO that's much more realistic.

It's not just about getting the source code...but knowing what to do with it.

Based on what Sulla said, we need to recruit Doug Walker . Then we will have a chance. Or maybe getting a Big $ gaming company to finance a serious effort. Matrix/Slitherine just doesn't have the financial resources to devote what needs to be done. Either that or get them to realize they can't fix the game without the "Intellectual Capital" of Doug Walker or a few others that made the game great.

I had originally high hopes about Slitherine's involvement...but now I think it might be hopeless unless some big changes occur.

#94: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Sulla,

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:04 am
—
Hia Guys,

There is MUCH that I have not said in this thread that went on behind the scenes. David H at Matrix is to blame for most of it. TBH, in this case Mooxe, there are actually not 2 sides to the story, there is the truth and not the truth.

I did not ask for anyone's money to start anything, I suggested that maybe an open source project would be a way forward, with total open-ness. I ended up with a heart attack, numerous other problems and really came back to get CSO running again. But I am not going to be accused by anyone of things I have not done etc. People don't have a clue what went on and I can only sat so much.

If [Mooxe/DJ] you want to know the whole truth, I would tell you. Its a long and sordid story, where money tops friendship and its put us where we are now.

At the end of the day, I wanted to develop CC to the next gen, I have always envisaged a decent strat layer on top of a new engine utilising much of the old CC. Like TW, but realistic and on a much smaller SAI level. A new engine and several programmers make a big difference and the mney was there from the re-sales, I know and have the figures. CoI alone would I imagine surprise the shit out of you!

Sulla

#95: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Troger, Location: L4W's place, Australia

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:06 am
—
Sulla, you should have ignored Nomada's prodding after his first provocative post. Then again, you shouldn't expect a rosy reception. You seem to have your own view of what CC should be, but does it match the community's? If you are going to do something community-led, it should be exactly that, led by the community, not by solely by you.

You should answer Platoon_Michael's questions. You said you own up to LSA in CC source code. What does that mean exactly? Do you have CC3, TLD, COI source code as well? Can it be of any use to anybody? Are you legally allowed to release it?

We need features (some we have seen in one release or another) in one. As Michael noted, digging in, towing, 2v2/3v3 H2H, strat map functions, modding tools, a fully-developed editor that could switch between CC3 and CC5 "modes", girly soldiers. I actually thing a lot of things that Steve, Cathartes, Mana, Southern Land, etc did in PTiF and GTC (especially GTC) were actually big improvements.

Where have all these people gone?
Ross [Future]
Han Boss [Attilla]
Eli Precht [Luer]
Andrew Williams [Schrecken]
Shane Cameron [Southen Land]
Randall Grubb [Snr_Drill]
Jim Martin [Oddball]
Mick Conmy [Mick_Xe5]

If you have the source code, and could actually use it, it seems like you first need a programmer who is familiar with the code (Steve or Doug) and can do the things that need to be done.

Last edited by Troger on Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:24 am; edited 1 time in total

#96: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Troger, Location: L4W's place, Australia

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:19 am
—

dj wrote (View Post):

I had originally high hopes about Slitherine's involvement...but now I think it might be hopeless unless some big changes occur.

Fully agree. I think the "handlers" of Close Combat has always been the problem, not the developers. Steve, Cathartes, Mana, Southern Land did a lotwith what the resources they were given, and they should be commended for it. GTC has some big improvements--stuff I would like to see in any CC-like game.

#97: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Sulla,

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 6:10 am
—
So Troger,

That would be me? As a handler? When we started working on CC, the only source code was CCM, which had large chunks missing. It took 4 years to get the source code for the others and as I said, it was in KZ's garage on some CDs and HDs, which would by now if left probably be useless, as it was some of the data on the HDs had to be recovered as the disks were unreadable.

You should answer Platoon_Michael's questions. You said you own up to LSA in CC source code. What does that mean exactly? Do you have CC3, TLD, COI source code as well? Can it be of any use to anybody? Are you legally allowed to release it?

/// Mooxe, I am not going to go into a discussion on the source code on an open forum. I know what happened and I know who legally has the rights. This again goes back to Dave H and Matrix. Suffice to say I do have code for CC2 CC3 CC4 CC5, CoI, CCRAF, CC:AT, CC:JTAC, CC:MT, CC:TLD, CC:LSA CC:WaR

We need features (some we have seen in one release or another) in one. As Michael noted, digging in, towing, 2v2/3v3 H2H, strat map functions, modding tools, a fully-developed editor that could switch between CC3 and CC5 "modes", girly soldiers? I actually thing a lot of things that Steve, Cathartes, Mana, Southern Land, etc did in PTiF and GTC (especially GTC) were actually big improvements.

I agree, They have done great things. All possible BECAUSE we have the code! Steve has had 6 years working on the code and is doing and making some much needed changes. I had a PM from SL saying he was finished with maps etc.

Where have all these people gone?
Ross [Future] - Working with Aus Post
Han Boss [Attilla] - Fired by DH at Matrix, now working in RL [Accountant I think]
Eli Precht [Luer] - Fired by DH at Matrix, now working in RL [He went to finish training in law]
Andrew Williams [Schrecken] Treated v badly by Matrix/Sliith. He contacted me when I came back this time, thinking I was back to take over the project again. When I told him, I was just back to run CSO, he vanished again [working with brothers in their jewellery business]
Shane Cameron [Southen Land] As Above- Lost his HD and sent me msg as above.
Randall Grubb [Snr_Drill] - Got a cpl of emails from him after I set CSO back up, he is working for the Govt [military]
Jim Martin [Oddball] - Had one email - not sure where he is now.
Mick Conmy [Mick_Xe5] - Got a cpl of emails from him after I set CSO back up, he is working for the Govt [military] Emails/phone bounce!

If you have the source code, and could actually use it, it seems like you first need a programmer who is familiar with the code (Steve or Doug) and can do the things that need to be done.

/// Any programmer in C or C++ could work on the code. Steve has cleaned it up so much! It makes sense now. I am more than willing to listen and have even been contacted by programmers since I came back, but I am not going down the route of stress, being pounded by the community and having another heart attack. I kept CSO going on my own much of the time while CC was in a major lull. I got the source code. We at Simtek remember did almost 100% military work. The only one we really developed commecially was CoI and we got nothing from that despite the $100,000s it made! Matrix took over everything after that when I was ill. Thats why Luer/Atilla/Drill were fired!

We did expect to do great things, we even expected CoI and more re-release to fund a new engine, as it was we got nothing and matrix used the money to stay afloat. Why do you think they sold out to Slitherine? Because they were doing so amazingly well?

Mooxe/Troger, I am fed up of answering for the past. I think whatever I did wrong, I have paid for and then some. People forget, no source code, NO CC, No next gen CC. But I am always somehow the bad guy! TBH, I am v fed up with that crap. Ask Steve, anyone involved where the source code came from. The state it was in.

We all have different views of CC and what it should be. Thats were making things optionable comes in, but this is NOT commercially profitable! The same with making it mod friendly as Wings Sims did with Panzer Elite and Soldnor. When I talk about making a community based game, it would be just that. BUT, it still would need a project lead, an overall designer, artists, to sift and use various ideas etc but it would be open on all levels.

Or, I could just release the source code! But that again would have consequences. Much of this kind of discussion at least source code etc, should not be on an open forum.

Sulla

#98: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Stwa,

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:33 am
—
BTW, I am a C/C++ coder since the 90's. Other languages before that.

#99: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:02 am
—

Troger wrote (View Post):

Sulla, you should have ignored Nomada's prodding after his first provocative post. Then again, you shouldn't expect a rosy reception. You seem to have your own view of what CC should be, but does it match the community's? If you are going to do something community-led, it should be exactly that, led by the community, not by solely by you.

Ah jajajaja please do not make me laugh, clearly I do not represent to anybody but you..........you do not represent to nobody more than yourself. You have not made nothing by the modding community at all your life with exception from critic the work from others. Very Happy

Quote:

We need features (some we have seen in one release or another) in one. As Michael noted, digging in, towing, 2v2/3v3 H2H, strat map functions, modding tools, a fully-developed editor that could switch between CC3 and CC5 "modes", girly soldiers. I actually thing a lot of things that Steve, Cathartes, Mana, Southern Land, etc did in PTiF and GTC (especially GTC) were actually big improvements.

You can not speak about these things when you would not use them, you are not a modder.

Quote:

We need features (some we have seen in one release or another) in one.

For years people was requesting you the features from CCM at the re-releases and we did not see them. As director of all this, it was your fault.

Quote:

I really don't understand how Sulla can develop on the Close Combat engine. It looks like its owned by Matrix/Slitherine.

I agree. If he has a real copyright about it, Matrix/Slitherine would not use it. It has not sense and I feel how there are many unknowns. I would not make nothing breaking the Matrix/Slitherine copyrights for see one day how my site is shut down by them.

At the end, all we have about this, it is the word from Sulla. Nothing more.

#100: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: southern_land,

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:28 am
—
would the correct starting point be using the existing code or start with the cc concept, and use the code where it works and remake the rest.

I maintain the only way forwards at this point is a significant advance it AI

The basics of SL's brilliant as fuck AI concept

**Each BG has a commander, each commander has a distinct personality with main and subordinate characteristics that will alter according to battle results

** the BG commander may be killed in battle and his successor will/might have a different personality

**platoons or sub groupings with the active BG will have 'elastic boundaries' ie set groupings of units will coordinate over small areas, they won't be strewn all over the map

**the strat commander will issue 'simple orders' to the BG commander based on overall strategy, the BG commander will enact these commands as per their personality type adjusted to their secondary charateristics adjusted to the forces they have available, adjusted to the terrain type they have to fight over

**decision making will be randomised to a small degree (15%) by obscured equations date divided by time (or something) that will give loadings on subsiquant decisions within the battle or battle set up

**the AI will be able to see blocks of 5x5 coding blocks on a map (or similar size) and will have instructions on optimum unit usage within these areas ie if it sees blocks of urban terrain it will send infantry in ahead of armoured support, if it sees high ground with a clear LOS it might allocate a sniper there. If it see's blocked LOS from the enemy it may chose to infiltrate etc etc.

-----the coding blocks will be grouped 1.buildings 2.roads 3.water 4.open ground 5.covered ground 6.forest and will be further subdivided by elevation

**the AI will have a percentage chance of using the same setup positions a second time (i know while testing GtC before my desktop shat itself I took 3 turns to take a map off the Germans, each time the AI positioned at AT gun in the same spot)

**the AI will turn into GIRLY SOLDIERS once a % has been lost. (they may even run away squealling Laughing

)

**AI tanks will recognise superior tanks once they are in LOS and they will get the fuck out of Dodge!

**The AI will have hardwired tactics to draw from. It willl know how to encircle, fire and manourve, using reserves and so on.

**The Ai will recognise the value of retreat where necessary... this will be dependant on the BG commander

Thats all I have time for (I had pages of this on my dead computer) including simplified yes/no decision flow chart. I'm no programmer but what I understand its all a matter of binary decision making.

I don't think there is anything there that can't be programmed. It won't be a genius but it will be better than we have at the moment.

#101: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Sulla,

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:53 am
—
@ Nom,

Quote:

Given all you have said. I am putting you in the don't matter, don't have to listen to you category. All you want is to piss people off and cause trouble. You are out of your depth and it shows. Now go away and please just leave me in peace!

At SL, OK, you know some of the back-story. You wanna chat about this?

I am not gonna be the CC Communities perennial kicking bag, esp as we would have stood still if Simtek had not come along.

Some of those brilliant as fuck ideas are good Wink

I have several completed design docs and with a new engine, the old code to work from, our own codebase, [NEW] we could use what's good, discard what's bad and take our time to come up with something worthwhile!

If Stwa is any good as a programmer, there are others. We could go our own way and design something open, with options for almost everything, so you can please lots of people and keep it very open with easily moddable DBs, easily modable graphics etc. We maybe even could start with the ability to import real world map data to render into 3D.

LMK SL, This would be totally transparent to all involved! I a not interested in money, this is ost certainly NOT about money! But making a decent, good CC would be the dream! Email me mate!

@Stwa Would you be interested? We could work up an Open Source or whatever agreement get NDA's to keep Matrix/Slith away.

Cheers - Sulla

#102: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Stwa,

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:23 am
—
HI,

Dunno. I have been CCMT type since it came out.

It seems to me evolving what you have already seems the best. Don't have to wait for workable version. Get something out soon...

If matrix stops 2d versions, then campaigns wont be in 3d. So, only modders can proceed beyond GWTC. And that seems unlikely because of the required mapping.

CCM/CCMT is tac only, and mods or addons can move quickly. It might also be best for Single Game H2H also.

In fact, if I could map like SL, I could go wild with ideas, just using current CCMT.

So, who owns code for CC2 Redux?

#103: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:32 am
—

Quote:

And this is told by one man who he has been very clear about how he does not want accept his guilt and he wants a revenge against Slitherine.

At other way you are not nobody for tell me what I must make. I have been many time around here and probably I will be more....

Quote:

LMK SL, This would be totally transparent to all involved! I a not interested in money, this is ost certainly NOT about money! But making a decent, good CC would be the dream! Email me mate!

Oh now because you see how nobody go to support you with his money, you change of mind....but you told it few time ago.

Quote:

I have actually thought about Kickstarter. I really do think that working together is the way to go. ALL of us.

#104: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Sulla,

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:59 am
—
Hmm....
Can smell something. Must have stood in something.

Nom, am not rising to your pathetic baiting any more. I REALLY don't care what you think. All future posts by you will just be ignored lol. So please feel free to waste your time, you trouble making, shit stirring [Choose Expletive of own choice]

@ Stwa, SL,

Email me guys! sulla [at] closecombat [dot] org

I will get hold of Schreken.

Sulla

#105: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:37 am
—
Sulla, can I suggest you one thing? why do you not make a new thread for your matter? you used at first place a thread intended to speak badly from the last CC game (even at this you made a failure).

One game the Gatheway to Caen that now after play it, I like it and I´m starting to edit it.

Pds: Clearly if you wanted help to the community, you had not come here telling us all the bad things made in the CC games by the teams at develop of these games. The funny point is how you were part of them...

#106: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Sulla,

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:47 am
—
Actually Stwa,

MT is easier and is good on a tactical level. CCAT CCJTAC were all based off CCM as was MT.

I will start a thread over at CSO.

http://www.closecombat.org/csoforums/viewforum.php?f=277

Cheers - S

#107: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Sulla,

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:49 am
—
I think it would be a good idea for you and SL to try out CC:RAF, CC:JTAC etc.

To see how different they were. Will also try and upload CC:AT.

S

#108: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:50 am
—
Mooxe,Sulla if you really are privy to this source code, help make tools like a CCReq or another type of battle editor. IMO that's much more realistic.

Thank-You

Troger,We need features (some we have seen in one release or another) in one. As Michael noted, digging in, towing, 2v2/3v3 H2H, strat map functions, modding tools, a fully-developed editor that could switch between CC3 and CC5 "modes", girly soldiers. I actually thing a lot of things that Steve, Cathartes, Mana, Southern Land, etc did in PTiF and GTC (especially GTC) were actually big improvements.

Again,Thank-You
But now I think all of that may be too much to ask.

Stwa,BTW, I am a C/C++ coder since the 90's. Other languages before that.
Well well well,Look what the cat dragged in!

After this post I'm done with this thread and done trying.
Seems to me sulla you need to get with the program here.
We are just a group of people who play and sometimes Mod.
We are not the large group of programmers that CC had back in the day.

If you,Steve,Mafi,Stwa or anyone else you know cant....... create a new CCReq tool that would work for all the re-releases?
Even if it could only support single battles and say maybe4 maps for Ops it would hands down without a doubt be the single biggest addition to CC to date.
Can you get rid of the Girly Soldiers?
Can you help increase,widen the deployment zones?
Maybe a few other things I cant think of off the top of my head.

The only other thing that would be better than a new CCReq would be a MMCCIII type program that could be used with the re-releases.
One that would support multiple BG's.

You've talked the talk,now lets see if you can walk the walk.

#109: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Sulla,

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:04 am
—
Hia Platoon,

I think both points you made are very good.

I know a couple of programmers [more probably]

The req has been a major prob. We all have things we want fixed.

By thinking you are powerless, you make yourself so.

Head over to CSO.

http://www.closecombat.org/csoforums/viewforum.php?f=277

I don't have ANYTHING to prove Platoon, but I desperately want a better CC. Caen IS better, but within limits!

Will PM you

Shaun

#110: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:43 am
—
yea I'm done.
I did send you a PM asking for the password,but I've since changed my mind.

I'm not a lawyer and I'm not gonna pretend to be one.
I do not want my name associated with any form of open Source CC.
I assume that's what the link you posted is to.

Have a nice life sulla

#111: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Sulla,

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:09 pm
—
No worries PM,

Entirely up to you. ;)

Just trying to put my money where my mouth is!

Every day above ground is a good day at this point!

Sulla

#112: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:30 pm
—
SULLA YOU ARE A DICTATOR, YOU HAVE DEACTIVATED MY ACCOUNT AT YOUR SITE. YOU ARE A BAD GUY, SPECIALLY WHEN I HAVE SHARED FILES WITH YOU AS THE SPECIAL INSTALLATION FROM JAVA FOR NEWER OPERATING SYSTEMS AND OF COURSE, YOU HAVE ADDED ALL MY MODS. IF I CAN NOT ENTER AT YOUR SITE, YOU HAVE NOT MY PERMISSION FOR PUBLISH THEM AND IF YOU CONTINUE PUBLISHING THEM, IT WILL BE CLEAR HOW YOU RESPECT THE WORK OF OTHERS, AT MY COUNTRY WE NAME TO THIS PEOPLE THIEVES.

#113: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: DoktorPaj, Location: Norrköping

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:59 pm
—
The war going on in this thread is more horrific than CC ever was.

#114: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: dj,

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:14 pm
—
Nomada, if you keep arguing with him and instigating trouble, then no wonder Sulla banished you from his own site. He offered you a truce, then you kept arguing anyways.

Then you wonder why he did that?

@ SouthernLand - the AI "as is" is completely useless for years now. You , Sapa, PJ, TT amongst others worked hard to fix that for mods only. However I have not seen any noticeable improvement in stock game for years now.

#115: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:12 pm
—

dj wrote (View Post):

Nomada, if you keep arguing with him and instigating trouble, then no wonder Sulla banished you from his own site. He offered you a truce, then you kept arguing anyways.

I do not go to be blackmailed by enter at one site. I did not see any truce from him or apologize from his insults. At the end, he is a man making false promises and lying us, he has not the copyright from the CC games and this is the reason because he does not want publish it.

Another funny point is how sad is him when he tells that Gatheway to Caen is not enough, are you all blind? Sulla was the responsible from the re-releases and when they were made with not enough features, he was speaking about them as the best from the world....

Of course I do not go to hide the true. Always that he enters here telling things which he has not made.

Quote:

the AI "as is" is completely useless for years now

Really I feel that you have not played too much to the CC games, the AI from the last games is very useful at comparation to the older games. I would say that CC4, CC5, CC3, Cross of Iron, and Close Combat Modern Tactics had not too much IA. Close Combat - Wacht am Rhein, Close Combat: The Longest Day and Close Combat - Last Stand Arnhem have a better IA but it is not too good. Close Combat: Panthers in the Fog and Close Combat: Gatheway to Caen have a better IA at comparation to the others and it is enough, at least you must not wait for hours a attack of this and it is not bad defending.

But never, absolutely never you can compare a IA at all games with a human player.

Quote:

If you,Steve,Mafi,Stwa or anyone else you know cant....... create a new CCReq tool that would work for all the re-releases?

Platoon_Michael. Steve does not work with Sulla and the same we can say probably from Mafi. About Stwa, I have not seen a new small program made by him.

About Sulla, he is not a coder or graphic designer. Probably you know more about modding a CC than him............if you want some help about CCrep, you should ask to Steve at Matrixgames forum.

Quote:

Just trying to put my money where my mouth is!

At the end this guy is obsessed with money. I will save my money and all you should make the same for the authentic owners from the CC license which they can give us a really a CC new game.

#116: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Gerwin, Location: Netherlands

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:06 pm
—
Interesting posts here, especially by Sulla.
The background sounds plausible, considering how the re-releases turned out.
I am sorry it turned out the way it did. At least, it is just a Game.
But since for Sulla his health and income were and are at stake; just take care of yourself.

Back then in 2007? I hoped and actually expected CoI to at least change the data formats. Change them from proprietary to something similar to Quake 3, Strike Fighters, or the Allegro game programming library. You know: PNG/JPeg graphics, ZIP for archives, INI files for loads of game parameters. This in itself would give a much more comfortable working and modding environment. But alas. I complained at CSO about the lack of INI file settings for AI armor purchases, right after release of CoI. I am still puzzled at to why it was programmed without such conveniences.
If there were just two entries in the registry or ini file:
"AI_soldiers_girly=1"
"AI_armor_cap=5"
It would have made all the difference.
About 16-bit graphics, it is hardly a noticable drawback for the user, and already miles better then 8-bit paletted colors in that regard. 16-bit is just a little annoying for the devs, because one creates things in 24 bits true color (=rrrrrrrr,gggggggg,bbbbbbbb) then slightly shrinks everything for publishing (=rrrrr,gggggg,bbbbb). I think by 2007 hardware was just fine with smooth-scrolling 24-bits, so no need to have stuck to the 16. It adds to an uncomfortable working and modding environment.

Doubt if open source CC would lead to a great things, as it has a bit of anarchy in it. Contrary to one good vision.
Maybe one day we will see something like what happened to the Thief 1+2 and System Shock 2 games. An anonymous source distributed new executables, which fixed and enhanced the engine in numerous areas. These games are now good to go on modern systems for years (DirectX 9 API), and sparked new interest in mapping new levels.

#117: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:25 pm
—

Quote:

You know: PNG/JPeg graphics, ZIP for archives, INI files for loads of game parameters. This in itself would give a much more comfortable working and modding environment. But alas. I complained at CSO about the lack of INI file settings for AI armor purchases, right after release of CoI. I am still puzzled at to why it was programmed without such conveniences.

I do not see any sense for some as a ini file when the armor settings are different for each vehicle. If you start to make things more global, at the end, you have a RTS and I know very well how a RTS works because probably I´m the unique guy here who he has modded at 100% a RTS.

At the end, I have made mods for many games and the Close Combat are probably one of the easier for be modded. Others need worse tools or the code is more complex, of course it is a 2D game by the moment and there is not comparation between to make a 2D model and one 3D model, 2D is easiest. The unique bad point is the amount of time, it takes more time than other games but not by this reason is too difficult.

If a corrupted mind like me can make it and even discover how to make a strategic map manually with photoshop and I have not studied in the university, everybody can make it. Wink

#118: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Gerwin, Location: Netherlands

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:59 pm
—
It is not all bad, after all CC3 was brilliant for its time. I am talking improvement.

As for ini files:
Keeping soldier uniform colors in the exe, now that is an idea. (sarcasm)

#119: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: VicKevlar,

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:28 pm
—
Wow.....fun thread.

Coupla quick points while I have a little time.

Not too many people here ever had to deal with Keith "stop fucking with my data" Zabalaoui in person or on phone. Even the rare conference call was a bit psycho with that guy. Atomic/CC was his baby and treated it that way with any and all comers.

EYSA is what GI Combat was meant to be. Aside from the Mad Bunny's game of hide and seek......Strategy First was having a MAJOR financial crunch that year. They literally shoved GI Combat and 5 other titles out the door that November to get the holiday sales in hopes of saving some of the Canadian business sites. Wasn't the original/target release date for GI Combat sometime the follow spring Shaun? Anyways, after the GI Combat release debacle it was decided by the powers that be to do it correctly.......EYSA. Major potential there even with some of the weird camera issues.

Destineer is now one (1) and only one man. The last workers have been gone for some time and a few friends ended up at Encore here in the Twin Cities.

Matrix and a few of those leaders screwed over more than a few people. I still kept ALL of the emails/docs from that timeframe to cover my ass! And it's been a damn decade. Laughing

I see Nomada is his usual charming self.....hasn't changed a bit. Not one. Razz

#120: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:28 pm
—

Gerwin wrote (View Post):

It is not all bad, after all CC3 was brilliant for its time. I am talking improvement.

As for ini files:
Keeping soldier uniform colors in the exe, now that is an idea. (sarcasm)

Yes, CC3 was brilliant for its time. But I prefer edit the soldier uniforms at a txt file.

Quote:

I see Nomada is his usual charming self.....hasn't changed a bit. Not one.

Why should I change? most of all are equal than 14 years ago. Rolling Eyes

#121: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Troger, Location: L4W's place, Australia

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:29 am
—

Sulla wrote (View Post):

So Troger,

That would be me? As a handler? When we started working on CC, the only source code was CCM, which had large chunks missing. It took 4 years to get the source code for the others and as I said, it was in KZ's garage on some CDs and HDs, which would by now if left probably be useless, as it was some of the data on the HDs had to be recovered as the disks were unreadable.

I do think we should be thankful to those (you included) that worked to get the code from Keith Z. Doesn't sound like the man was easy to deal with.

I'm not sure I understand what your vision is/was for CC. We didn't see anything change gameplay-wise for the better in CoI, and even the changes in WAR, TLD, and LSA (which, I know, you weren't a part of) were rather minor. CoI introduced the girly soldiers, and it's still a problem, albeit it not as bad, in GTC.

One thing you have talked about was wanting a Total War-like strat map with supply lines, etc. That seems a bit much, and would probably take away from the core focus of the game (the battles). I think the improvements in the strat map don't need to go to that level, and have already went too far in PTiF/GTC (with arty and air interdiction making movement impossible). The current strat map gameplay with some minor enhancements (such as rest/refitting/reinforcing) is all that is needed. Anyways, that's just one aspect of the game you have mentioned.

I'm definitely tired of Close Combat being made with the wants of only one (a "project director"), or a few privileged individuals, in mind. That obviously can't be the case with any community-led project. This seems to be how it's operated with every release since CC5. Plenty of people with experience with game have voiced their opinions only to be ignored, and sometimes struck down--you and some of those around you behaved poorly when faced with criticism during/after CoI's release.

#122: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Troger, Location: L4W's place, Australia

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:51 am
—

VicKevlar wrote (View Post):

http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules/Forums/bbcode_box/images/flash.gif
EYSA is what GI Combat was meant to be. Aside from the Mad Bunny's game of hide and seek......Strategy First was having a MAJOR financial crunch that year. They literally shoved GI Combat and 5 other titles out the door that November to get the holiday sales in hopes of saving some of the Canadian business sites. Wasn't the original/target release date for GI Combat sometime the follow spring Shaun? Anyways, after the GI Combat release debacle it was decided by the powers that be to do it correctly.......EYSA. Major potential there even with some of the weird camera issues.

Who worked on EYSA and GI Combat? I didn't realize that you guys were involved with those games.

I don't think either game had any potential. There have been much better attempts since then (Theatre of War, Operation Star) and it still doesn't work. It's hard to make the game fun and controllable at those camera angles, in that scale, in real-time. Judging from the two screenshots of The Bloody First, they seem to be heading in the right direction (at least regarding the camera angle).

#123: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: dj,

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:43 am
—

VicKevlar wrote (View Post):

Wow.....fun thread.

Coupla quick points while I have a little time.

Not too many people here ever had to deal with Keith "stop fucking with my data" Zabalaoui in person or on phone. Even the rare conference call was a bit psycho with that guy. Atomic/CC was his baby and treated it that way with any and all comers.

EYSA is what GI Combat was meant to be. Aside from the Mad Bunny's game of hide and seek......Strategy First was having a MAJOR financial crunch that year. They literally shoved GI Combat and 5 other titles out the door that November to get the holiday sales in hopes of saving some of the Canadian business sites. Wasn't the original/target release date for GI Combat sometime the follow spring Shaun? Anyways, after the GI Combat release debacle it was decided by the powers that be to do it correctly.......EYSA. Major potential there even with some of the weird camera issues.

Destineer is now one (1) and only one man. The last workers have been gone for some time and a few friends ended up at Encore here in the Twin Cities.

Matrix and a few of those leaders screwed over more than a few people. I still kept ALL of the emails/docs from that timeframe to cover my ass! And it's been a damn decade. Laughing

I see Nomada is his usual charming self.....hasn't changed a bit. Not one. Razz

Vic - this is a very good summary of the history as I've heard it. What about what Sulla said...Doug Walker is the genius that coded the original CC games? Does somebody know Doug?

#124: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:18 am
—

Troger wrote (View Post):

I'm definitely tired of Close Combat being made with the wants of only one (a "project director"), or a few privileged individuals, in mind. That obviously can't be the case with any community-led project. This seems to be how it's operated with every release since CC5. Plenty of people with experience with game have voiced their opinions only to be ignored, and sometimes struck down--you and some of those around you behaved poorly when faced with criticism during/after CoI's release.

Definitely, I agree with this and all the other words tell by you when you wrote it. This is the type of idea that I and probably many others defend. At the end the CC games were developed by a dictatorship and many of the changes were based at the preferences from one guy ignoring all the previous good things and the opinions from the community.

Quote:

We didn't see anything change gameplay-wise for the better in CoI, and even the changes in WAR, TLD, and LSA (which, I know, you weren't a part of) were rather minor. CoI introduced the girly soldiers, and it's still a problem, albeit it not as bad, in GTC.

I can not be more agree with this. Totally true. In fact I have told it for the last messages but he does not like the true.

Quote:

Who worked on EYSA and GI Combat? I didn't realize that you guys were involved with those games.

They should not be proud of these. They were a shit and remembering your opinion about how the community were ignored, all the beta testers from these games told how they were bad and they were ignored. These developers have proven for years how usually they ignore the true in favor of their own thoughts.

About other questions, I was remembering the opinion about how many old people is far war from the CC games and it is funny see how the people which they are far away, they are mostly the people which they were involved in the development from the CC games. All the others which they were not involved, most of them continue around here. It is very curious. Wink

#125: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: VicKevlar,

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:54 pm
—

Troger wrote (View Post):

VicKevlar wrote (View Post):

Look at the credits for both......basically a Close Combat who's who. Eric/Shaun/Jim/Mike/Chuck/John/others formed Freedom Games with Strategy First as the publisher. Another issue I remember is that Freedom Games had their own testers (basically all the big CC modders like Mick, Ross, Reiryc, etc;) and Strategy First had theirs with a single db for tracking. Issue was I remember the Strategy First people would either close or remove things from the db. Kinda frustrating. Wink

#126: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: VicKevlar,

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:58 pm
—

dj wrote (View Post):

VicKevlar wrote (View Post):

I see Nomada is his usual charming self.....hasn't changed a bit. Not one. Razz

Vic - this is a very good summary of the history as I've heard it. What about what Sulla said...Doug Walker is the genius that coded the original CC games? Does somebody know Doug?

Doug is still at DAS I think.....Shaun may know for sure.

http://www.d-a-s.com/

He was the head of development there and may still be. Anyways and IIRC....after EYSA came out via Matrix.....Freedom Games was either acquired or merged with DAS and they put out the Second Front release/mod packs. Eric went to work there doing the VICE stuff for the military for years after.

#127: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: TTorpedo, Location: Portugal

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:11 pm
—
On the future CC front,
For Strat map, something on the lines of "Unity of Command" it deals with support logistics very elegantly
For the core battles --> polishing and polish some more. Add missing features but no need to reinvent the formula;
Add some more options to the map view, to-gable layers obfuscating the map parts not in sight or range etc;
Throw in Co-Op;
icing:
The ability to "stish" battle maps on the go would be great allowing the battle to spill on the next map. Dont know how feasible this would be but anything that "dissolves" the battle map borders would be a great addition, allowing follow up attacks or holding that spot because reinforces are on the way, exploring gaps etc.
+
Map editor & tools on the the game box.

#128: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:53 pm
—

Quote:

I tested G.I Combat and I do not remember to nobody from Strategy First deleting nothing, in fact they knew how the game was but Freedom games did not want make changes and they have a previous agreement with Freedom games which they would receive the money because at the end, they made the game, even if it was a piece of shit.

The most funny is how never I have read nothing bad coming from the creators....probably they are proud but it was a shit, they are so bad than even nobody would add them in the list from the worse games. Rolling Eyes

#129: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: pt11070,

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:47 am
—
Interesting to learn the history behind CC development and how much passion goes into the creative process and how deep are the disappointments.
For some reason CC is game that is a perfect fit for me, the right mix of history and real time gaming. I wish Sulla all the best, it would be heartbreaking to see something I worked so hard on stolen from me. I can feel your pain. I hope that somehow your dreams come true. And it sounds like that the game you are envisioning would be all we are hoping for in CC community.

Pt

Last edited by pt11070 on Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:36 am; edited 1 time in total

#130: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:25 am
—

Quote:

it would be heartbreaking to see something I worked so hard on stolen from me.

Really we have not more than his own words about it. He has not showed any contract or copyright, just as another modder claiming rights without any proofs.

Just because he sayed how he had a company with the rights about it, it does not say that it be true.

If I do not understand badly, he suffered the heart attack before he was expulsed from Slitherine proyect. All we know how a bad alimentation, alcohol and smoke can provoke it.

At the end, it is funny, he speaks about rights but he takes everything from the people without ask....what curious...He did not ask me about publish my mods at his site. What can I claim? nothing. The same than him with the Close Combat games.

#131: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: pt11070,

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:34 am
—
NF you remind me of an old man that has a comment for everything, but understands nothing. You are good man, just understand that some things do not involve you or revolve around you.
Sulla, please do not respond to NF, ever. He does not deserve it. I respect you and your dream.

#132: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: dj,

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:21 am
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Hence my term narcissist to describe NF. I don't get it why NF has such hate on Sulla.

If anything I think Sulla, has the solution. It sounds like a good idea take away the obstructionists at Matrix...start over with some real $ budget and recruit some of the best guru's that made the game great. Somebody call Doug Walker. He's probably making the Big $ at that simulation company....but then again CC2 made a boatload of cash, so if he was one of the principal's it might work.

PJ had temper tantrums with his fellow Frenchman Zappi and others on this site, now NF has done that with Sulla. PJ would always complain about people not being worthy of posting his mods ...just like NF.

#133: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:02 am
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Sulla, if you can come up with an alternative CC to Matrix/Slitherine I would definitely take a look at the product/result....

#134: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:30 am
—

pt11070 wrote (View Post):

He does not deserve it. I respect you and your dream.

What about Steve, his team and Slitherine? what do they deserve? because I have seen a lot of shit against them written by him, things very hypocrit as "Slitherine is not thinking at more than win money", all we know how Freedom Games and Simteck were not made for do not win money and Sulla is not the mother Teresa of Calcuta. Rolling Eyes

Sorry but I need proofs before accept everything in the world.

dj would not know what is a narcissist even if he has it in front of his face. I do not hate to anybody here. Just I remember the true as we know it. dj I recomend you to use the wikipedia, you do not know what is a narcissist, probably you should return to the school, it would be good for you. At the end, I go to ignore you because you are nobody as one before who he entered insulting to the others and this is not the first time that we can see it coming from you against one member and curiously against a spanish member, are you racist? probably you are the narcissist, Hitler was a big narcissist, not me.

Quote:

Sulla, if you can come up with an alternative CC to Matrix/Slitherine I would definitely take a look at the product/result....

I agree. Even I would pay it if it was good or I would help freely if I was asked but I do not go to put money before it is finished. Modding is for free.

#135: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Pzt_Crackwise, Location: Switzerland

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:27 pm
—
@Nomada: I haven't seen anything, not a single damn thing on this thread about Sulla asking for donations/money etc. It was us who brought the possibility or the limitations of a potential Kickstarter thing.

I personally believe such a thing can not be made in a commerical approach anyway, at least not in a manner the community wants. It will need to be community based, open-source stuff, voluntarily.

#136: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:40 am
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If Dima and stwa are doing the data I'd expect this to be in 2208

#137: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,

Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:26 am
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Pzt_Crackwise wrote (View Post):

@Nomada: I haven't seen anything, not a single damn thing on this thread about Sulla asking for donations/money etc. It was us who brought the possibility or the limitations of a potential Kickstarter thing.

Because you have not read all the answers....he wrote this and for many answers we spoke about money and more money, always by the money and the revenge against Slitherine because they did not payed to him.

Quote:

I have actually thought about Kickstarter. I really do think that working together is the way to go. ALL of us.

Quote:

If Dima and stwa are doing the data I'd expect this to be in 2208

Very funny. I agree. I do not see to anybody here who he can make some like this and I do not remember to anybody from the past who he knew enough about code for to work at this. The unique exceptions were Mafi and I do not go to count to the blood because he was not a modder.

At this moment, I and all the community, we would be happier if the amount of mods are increased, specially for the last CC.

#138: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Pzt_Kanov, Location: México

Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:00 pm
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Stwa wrote (View Post):

BTW, I am a C/C++ coder since the 90's. Other languages before that.

Duty calls ;)

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3634965

"3D Tactical Battle game with 2D sprites ".. hmmm Question

#139: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,

Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:56 pm
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Pzt_Kanov wrote (View Post):

"3D Tactical Battle game with 2D sprites ".. hmmm Question

I do not think that it be Bloody First because it is at 100% at 3D. I have asked about it before.

#140: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: southern_land,

Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:35 pm
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Looks like a new spaniard is trying to get a whole new international brigade lined up against him LMAO

#141: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,

Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 12:07 am
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If I´m the spaniard, I do not see to nobody against me. In fact I do not see to the people supporting the impossible ideas from Sulla which they are not more than a pitiful revenge against his old boss.

At the end, I do want that people follow to me. I do not need it. Wink

Just I tell the true to the people, after it, they can make all they want but I do not go to accept the lies only because they feel how they are great when they are not.

#142: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you

Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:58 am
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I love the fact that Sulla/Kieth whoever couldn't make a good CC with a 3 million budget for the Military.

Couldn't do it with Matrix.

But with your help he/we can make an awesome Open Source CC.

And you guys get upset with Firefox
Ha ha ha

Close Combat Series -> Close Combat Gateway to Caen

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