Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back
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Close Combat Series -> Close Combat Gateway to Caen
#1: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,  PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 9:14 am
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I was looking how it looks and when I saw this strategic map, I feel, chaos!



This is a very big strategic map and I hate it, there is not strategic at this, never you will see all the maps with a good image. The strategic map should be seen at one single screen as something similar to the old CC4, if at least there was a zoom or some similar.

Another very big detail are the 32bits, clearly the maps a lower at detail and colors, they look a lot worse than Panthers in the Fog. I feel how they were older 16bits maps loaded at this new 32bits CC.







Well, this does not look bad, it looks worse than bad when you compare them with Panthers in the Fog, the differences are horrible.








And they are not only the maps, when I see the map selection screen and I look the images from the soldiers, I feel as if I had made them.Wink It looks as copy and paste. Sorry but it is the true, most of all close combat gateway to caen looks as a mod, I do not know what will be the price from this game but I would not pay 40€ by it.



At the end, this game is doomed to the failure from the first moment and probably by this reason, they have not published more images or another data from Bloody First.
#2: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Manoi, Location: Brussels PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 3:18 pm
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I dont' agree for the maps, the style is different and maybe less colorfull but I like the new maps drawings..
#3: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,  PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 4:05 pm
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The style can be different but the maps clearly were made with 16bits and they are more simple.

Last edited by Nomada_Firefox on Mon May 26, 2014 7:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
#4: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: TheImperatorKnight,  PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 6:41 pm
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The strategic map looks nicer than it did in PitF, PitF's strat map was dull. I dislike the undynamic risk-like strategic maps in all CC games anyway, but I highly doubt the inability to see the whole map in one shot is going to drag GWTC down.

I agree with Manoi that the style of the tactical maps is less colourful (they said this was for realism) and I can see your point about the 32bit graphics. Looks-wise, PitF's maps were a definite improvement over the previous games so it is a shame they didn't stick to that style. But I remember people saying on here how cartoonish PitF's maps looked and how THEY were a step backwards, yet now you're arguing GWTC's maps are a step backwards compared to PitF Confused
#5: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Pzt_Kanov, Location: México PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 7:16 pm
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I'm looking forward to this even though since the beginning you could tell it was like a mod for PitF but with some things added.

That said, I think the stock strat map for Pitf is horrible, nothing to do with the fun to look at CC4, CC5 even TLD with their stylized villages, marshes roads etc even if TLD was so narrow the art involved in the strat map was great. Pitf is so bland. If anything I consider GtC strat map an improvement over stock pitf map with the styled unit strat icons and stuff. I just don't like those NATO symbols, at all.

The whole setting on PitF is kind of dull anyways, should have been an eastern front game since the beginning not this obscure mega failure attack.
#6: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,  PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 8:00 pm
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Quote:
how cartoonish PitF's maps looked

This is funny because at the end, CC games always looked as cartoon but the maps from GTC look as recycled cartoon and the maps from PITF look as good cartoon. Just compare the roads at gateway to caen with the roads at PITF, at GTC are poor and they were painted with a 25% of the details at PITF.

My main point is how GTC looks too much as a mod and it can not be sold by 40€ or $40, it should be cheaper because the quality is lower. In fact, it should be free because it is a blackmail to the players. Yes people this is the true, unfortunately for some of you, I do not live from matrix $ and I can like a lot Bloody First but GTC is a insult to my intelligence and you should judge if it is not a insult to your intelligence.
#7: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: mooxe,  PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 8:30 pm
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I don't understand why the strategic maps get butchered so badly. You could see all of CC4 strat map without scrolling. It was like a chess board. In CC5 you had to scroll, but they also added more details to the battle groups that CC4 did not have. The maps were presented in CC5 in a small enough format that you could see much of the areas you were fighting in without scrolling.

There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to all the user interface changes being made. None of them are an improvements, they are mostly just a change for someone's personal preference or for the sake of making the game look newer. No new information is being presented, in some cases it just makes it harder to see or notice. Now with TBF we are getting a new engine, so be prepared to make even more steps backwards (multistory houses)...

Over the past 10 years eight new versions of Close Combat have been released to the public. All of them have different options, new ones added and old ones removed, but the best ones never carried on to the next. The only consistency, is inconsistency. The last innovative Close Combat was Marines in 2004. It was multiplayer 3v3 and had the most powerful editor to date. Anyways I could go on forever about being disappointed....
#8: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: TheImperatorKnight,  PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 8:30 pm
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I don't disagree with you - the PitF maps look nicer. Again, the feedback at the time was that the PitF maps were "cartoony" and people wanted more "realism", with people saying they were "too bright" and, well here's a LINK to where I was quoting from. That's perhaps why they've gone for more realism in the pale colours etc. But you're correct that the PitF maps look better.

You could argue that every CC game since like CC5 has been a mod. Technically, with the exception of the strategic map, the game hasn't been improved at all since CC2. I also think what you have to remember is that the people working on GWTC are modders, which is perhaps why you think it looks like a mod.
#9: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: TheImperatorKnight,  PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 8:33 pm
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mooxe wrote (View Post):
Now with TBF we are getting a new engine, so be prepared to make even more steps backwards (multistory houses)...


The feedback on my channel for this was terrible. People who were potentially going to buy TBF as their first CC game were instantly put off by this news Sad
#10: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Gunsche,  PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 8:42 pm
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Stratmap is fine by my opinion, maybe just make the map borders somewhat more visible though as I had too look twice before fiding them  Laughing

As for the maps: I like the GTCs much more over the PitF ones. PitF were ok but the colouring made them seems very cartoonish like, like in CC2 (although I love those maps!)
Looking at satelite images the world actually looks pretty pale/dull looking when it comes down to colours so GTC would be more accurate than PiTFs colourfull maps.
As for details I see no problems, roads looks fine IMHO.

Btw, StratBGIcons looks awesome. I always wanted them too look like that in the earlier CC games  Very Happy

One thing I can complain about is the rather dull menu interface that looks like the PitF one (or is it the same? can't remember right now, PitF is uninstalled atm  Wink  )

Another is the vehicle graphics. Urggh, no CC game gets it right. It's my firm belif that the vehicles in GJS for CC5 were the best vehicle graphics I have seen so far. The current ones looks like toy tanks.
#11: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Pzt_Crackwise, Location: Switzerland PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 10:07 pm
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I personally don't have high expectations from any new CC games anymore. Unless Matrix games sells the source code and all other stuff to another company, I won't expect a proper, long desired CC game to be made anymore. Sorry for the fellow CCS members who also took part in those re-releases but that was just too many disappointments in a row.
#12: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Vandoo, Location: North PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 1:47 am
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In my opinion Close Combat is not going anywhere until someone has the real will to tackle the core of the game, the source code (engine) from the atomic era.

Gateway to Caen is only gonna be another layer of make-up and lipstick on the same old tired pig...
#13: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Ivan_Zaitzev,  PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 2:16 am
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I like this maps better than the PITF ones.  Smile
#14: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,  PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 11:04 am
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mooxe wrote (View Post):
There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to all the user interface changes being made. None of them are an improvements, they are mostly just a change for someone's personal preference or for the sake of making the game look newer. No new information is being presented, in some cases it just makes it harder to see or notice. Now with TBF we are getting a new engine, so be prepared to make even more steps backwards (multistory houses)...

Personally the changes at interface were made for show new changes but they were bad and they converted one good thing at a horrible thing.

About multistory buildings, yes it is a return to the past but we will be playing at a complete new engine which it will add a lot of new features and probably it will fix many others. Just I wait that they do not make stupid changes as the interface at the next versions from the game after bloody first.

Quote:
Over the past 10 years eight new versions of Close Combat have been released to the public. All of them have different options, new ones added and old ones removed, but the best ones never carried on to the next. The only consistency, is inconsistency. The last innovative Close Combat was Marines in 2004. It was multiplayer 3v3 and had the most powerful editor to date. Anyways I could go on forever about being disappointed....

I and probably most of the people, we could easily accept as very good CCMT and the reeditions, the first because it was different and reeditions because they were neccesary if you wanted play at a modern computer. CCMT was a unfortunately game, it was not a WWII game and most of the people did not like it by this reason, if they had wanted, they had made a WWII version with the best maps from previous CC games and thanks to the 3vs3, it had been a better game, even probably they could make it with a linear campaign as CC3.

But..........I remember the words from here http://www.pockettactics.com/news/ios-news/slitherines-new-3d-close-combat-looks-just-like-old-2d-close-combat/ where they say how the old CC games code was impenetrable. I can imagine because the last CC games were not better.

Now we saw few time PITF and I liked it because it adds 32bits and it looked clearly different but I can not think the same with GTC because it looks as a bad mod from PITF.

At this moment, for me Bloody First is the future from the CC games, I feel that when we play it, I will forget easily the older CC games which they share the same engine for more of 14 years! I´m very positive with this new CC at 3D because everything which I saw, it looks good.

I remember when I tested the old G.I Combat, even in the first stages from the testing, we could see how the game was very bad, even the people from strategy first agreed with me at this but they could not change nothing and they release the game, even if they knew how it was bad from the begining, it was because they have a previous agreement with Freedom Games.

The old engine is dead and probably Mooxe agrees with me at this other point, they do not help to the community absolutely nothing when they release a new CC with few or no one modifications each year. Each time that they make it, they kill all the previous mods at development which they were made for a community with a 25% of the players from 14 years ago.
#15: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: dj,  PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 4:46 am
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Nomada, I agree with you...not feeling the strategy map, the scale is bad.  "A turn back" ?  I think in many ways the original CC2 and CC3 games are better than the rewrites or PiTF.  But I like there is something new, with a Caen campaign.
#16: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,  PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 11:41 am
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dj wrote (View Post):
Nomada, I agree with you...not feeling the strategy map, the scale is bad.  "A turn back" ?  I think in many ways the original CC2 and CC3 games are better than the rewrites or PiTF.  But I like there is something new, with a Caen campaign.

Do you go to pay 40€/$40 by a mod? me not.
#17: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: dj,  PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 4:28 am
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Nomada_Firefox wrote (View Post):
dj wrote (View Post):
Nomada, I agree with you...not feeling the strategy map, the scale is bad.  "A turn back" ?  I think in many ways the original CC2 and CC3 games are better than the rewrites or PiTF.  But I like there is something new, with a Caen campaign.

Do you go to pay 40€/$40 by a mod? me not.


You're preaching to the choir, brother.  Mucho expensive, I don't think it's worth more than $20 tops because IMO the game has gotten worse vs original series in many respects.
#18: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Nomada_Firefox,  PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 1:22 pm
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dj wrote (View Post):
Nomada_Firefox wrote (View Post):
dj wrote (View Post):
Nomada, I agree with you...not feeling the strategy map, the scale is bad.  "A turn back" ?  I think in many ways the original CC2 and CC3 games are better than the rewrites or PiTF.  But I like there is something new, with a Caen campaign.

Do you go to pay 40€/$40 by a mod? me not.


You're preaching to the choir, brother.  Mucho expensive, I don't think it's worth more than $20 tops because IMO the game has gotten worse vs original series in many respects.

Why do you think that it can be cheaper? have you seen the price from the other CC games? I´m sure at 100% that you have not seen it lately.....

Close Combat - Modern Tactics 23.99€ + Taxes (released at 2007)
Close Combat - Cross of Iron 31.99€ + Taxes (released at 2007)
Close Combat - Wacht am Rhein 31.99€ + Taxes (released at 2008)
Close Combat: The Longest Day 31.99€ + Taxes (released at 2009)
Close Combat - Last Stand Arnhem 31.99€ + Taxes (released at 2010)
Close Combat: Panthers in the Fog 31.99€ + Taxes (released at 2012)

Now DJ continue dreaming, all the proofs tell us how the game will be too expensive.

I have written the original release dates because the dates from Matrixgames are a lie, I feel that they have replaced them by the day that Slitherine bought the close combat games.
#19: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Sulla,  PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 6:46 am
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Hmmm...

Slitherine NEVER bought CC from Matrix, its was not Matrix's to sell!

The interface TBH is in CC1 to CC5 getting better. You have to remember that Microsoft were heavily involved until it went to SSI, thats why the interface has ALWAYS been so great! MS would not let a game out without lots of thought going into the UI.

Slitherine are in NO way interested in CC or making CC better, just more sales! The new maps and UI look pretty awful. Not sure how many of you remember Squad Assault, but even there we kept as close as possible to the CC UI, because it worked. If it aint broke don't fix it!

The next iteration of CC [new engine] should be like a cross between TW and CC. The stat level on CC always sucked. We need a decent strat layer, with movement, supply, build up of units, logistics, fuel, real integration between SAI and TAI, maps and deploy that make sense not boxes. We have the best tactical game invented so far, much much better on a tactical level than Total War. But CC is topped by a game of chequers. Knowing Keith and how Red Phoenix was developed, I would say MS had an awful lot to do with CCs Dev. Aslo, Doug Walker was on the team then. Eric Young was actually hired by Keith as a historian, nothing to do with design. CC as we know it was far more of an accident than design. Keith Z just got lucky.

Now though, its time for CC to move forwards, its not gonna happen with Slitherine. Steve has himself [1 Programmer] and 2 Graphic designers. Thats not a recipe for an awesome new game. Given Slitherines turnover its paltry indeed. Trust me I know the figures!

Sulla
#20: Re: Close Combat Gateway to Caen, a turn back Author: Conrad,  PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:14 am
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Nomada_Firefox wrote (View Post):


Another very big detail are the 32bits, clearly the maps a lower at detail and colors, they look a lot worse than Panthers in the Fog. I feel how they were older 16bits maps loaded at this new 32bits CC.





Sorry to hear that you don't like the graphics. The maps and effects I created for 'Gateway to Caen' are definitely not less detailed than it's predecessor, they actually contain more detail and grittiness compared to PitF. So I don't understand what you mean at all compared what I've heard from other players who'm definitely see an improvement.


Currently I'm working on the maps for 'The Bloody First' and I'm sure you have seen the screenshots. My approach is slightly similar to 'Gateway to Caen' although I'm introducing a few new techniques, overall the quality is similar compared to Gateway to Caen.


Please explain what you are seeing, your feedback is more than welcome!
Close Combat Series -> Close Combat Gateway to Caen


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