Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK
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#41: Re: Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK Author: zwizdan007,  PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:03 pm
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Cam someone upload the manual? I would like to see what's happening before buying...
#42: Re: Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK Author: Dima,  PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:32 pm
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Stwa wrote (View Post):
Well, the game is not going to be made or broken on one flame tank. Actually the game looked real good in TIKs vid.

But, now I am worried if Croc flame tanks were actually used in combat at all during Epsom, or Normandy for that matter. So maybe some better articles will show up.

Some article that I cited (on page 2) mentioned one Nigel Duncan who said flame tanks landed at Normandy, but maybe he meant Mk VII Chuchills and flame tank field kits landed. Maybe they even put one or two together (the 141st RAC), and found out the pressurized trailer sucked.

Anyway, I have been able to find some more info about the 31st Armoured Tank Brigade and specifically the 141st Regiment Royal Armoured Corps, and can post it tomorrow or something.

Brrr, 141RAC landed 1 troop with 3 Crocs on June 6 on Gold. In 2 weeks the rest of 141RAC landed. No other unit besides 141RAC had Churchill VII in Normandy in June.
There are both british and german accounts of Crocs been used in Normandy and then clearing Brest with americans.
#43: Re: Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK Author: Nomada_Firefox,  PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:38 pm
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Quote:
Vehicle pathing is great (why shouldnt it after all the complains and three? patches for Last Stand Arnhem.... Crying or Very sad  

I do not agree, it is worse. By two reasons:

First the maps elements, they are not very good. You can see your units stopped at very strange zones.


Second, the vehicles do not move with the front armor directly to the enemy. In the past, if it happened, you could fire a few shots with the tank in one direction and the vehicle put the armor in the direction from the shots. Now it does not happen. I believe that many of you did not know this tip and Steve made many changes at code for fix the pathfinding but at the end, he deleted some features.

At other point, for me the best feature at this moment are the explosion effects. The worse is the lack of blood.
#44: Re: Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK Author: Dima,  PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:44 pm
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Nomada_Firefox wrote (View Post):
Quote:
Vehicle pathing is great (why shouldnt it after all the complains and three? patches for Last Stand Arnhem.... Crying or Very sad  

I do not agree, it is worse. By two reasons:

First the maps elements, they are not very good. You can see your units stopped at very strange zones.


Second, the vehicles do not move with the front armor directly to the enemy. In the past, if it happened, you could fire a few shots with the tank in one direction and the vehicle put the armor in the direction from the shots. Now it does not happen. I believe that many of you did not know this tip and Steve made many changes at code for fix the pathfinding but at the end, he deleted some features.

At other point, for me the best feature at this moment are the explosion effects. The worse is the lack of blood.

Ahha, they "fixed" pathfinding in TLD same way - screwing up elements, when you get them work good again pathfinding go back to CC5 level Smile.
#45: Re: Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK Author: Sulla,  PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:43 pm
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I as most know, AM NOT a great Matrix fan ;)

However, I this is the best to date. I was always a fan of CCIII, I loved the deploy and maps etc. Why they dumped that just bcs of strat map is weird.

Hats off to Steve, this plays very slick and seems on first few plays to be much better. V slick so far. Will never understand why none of  what we did for the USMC in Anti Terrorism made it into commercial!

Steve has been working on this for 6+ years now, so it should be improving. The major issue is, you can only fix so far. Its so easy to break other things when you fix one thing. However much you work on that engine now, there really is only so much you can do.

A decent strat layer and non chequer board deploy, building up units [stacking] logistics, flanking [properly] all need to be in the next engine!

But, still a well done to Steve!

Sulla
#46: Re: Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK Author: Sapa,  PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 4:01 pm
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Mr Flamethrower..this thread is called FIRST IMPRESSIONS...nice of you to have them without actually play the game Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy

Yes i am one of the old dinosaurs and proud of it, sorry for having any opinions...


Mats
#47: Re: Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:14 pm
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Now more than ever I wish the re-releases had a CCReq tool to use.

Vehicle pathing still sucks.Ofcourse I've lost a lot of Vehicles H2H and yes I keep forgetting about the Rain.

Trying to learn what BG is what is also a real pain in the arse.
On the BG screen it shows name and patch
On the scenario editor screen it has military/Nato symbols.


Visually the game is Awesome!
Sounds are good too.

If TBF can look like this and the 2nd installment of TBf has a strat map  I'm all in.
No need for a Bulge related game either. Smile
#48: Re: Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK Author: Pzt_Kanov, Location: México PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:30 pm
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Yeah a new CCReq tool would be awesome. Lets hope one of them young programmers are drawn towards these games again.

We need another Sgt_Wilson!
#49: Re: Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK Author: Nomada_Firefox,  PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:44 pm
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Have you tried add a new vehicle graphic to the game?
#50: Re: Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK Author: Pzt_Kanov, Location: México PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 8:09 pm
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Nomada_Firefox wrote (View Post):
Have you tried add a new vehicle graphic to the game?


I only know of Bel http://www.closecombatseries.net/CCS/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=10493
 
And well, Cathartes.
#51: Re: Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK Author: Stwa,  PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:56 pm
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Dima wrote (View Post):
Brrr, 141RAC landed 1 troop with 3 Crocs on June 6 on Gold. In 2 weeks the rest of 141RAC landed. No other unit besides 141RAC had Churchill VII in Normandy in June.There are both british and german accounts of Crocs been used in Normandy and then clearing Brest with americans.


If true, then cite these souces, provide a link, you spammer.  Laughing

BTW, Brest is not in Normandy, and I doubt it was an objective during operation Epsom.

The Operation Epsom Order of Battle states 2 troops (141st RAC) to one (or perhaps two) brigaded regiments it the 15th Scottish Division. I take 2 troops to be 6 tanks?

Here is a picture of an article that tries to identify all the 141st RAC tanks by name, during the time they were attached to 31st Armoured Tank Brigrade. (i.e. since June 6th 1944). Note there are Mk VIIs but only one "Funny" was mentioned, that being a Mk IV AVRE fascine tank. My guess is a facine unit is one without its mine roller which was probably robbed from this unit and sent to an assault battalion in an Engineer eschelon.

Note that the document, mentions NO flamethrower tanks, or flamethrower kits. And it doesn't mention at all if any of these tanks were in Normandy. Only Nigel Duncan's book (1972), says some where, but Duncan's book is about the 79th Armoured Division, and 141st RAC was attached to 31st Armoured Tank Brigade during this time. So my guess is, Duncan is as clueless as everyone else.

Also, note the picture of Churchill with NO flame projector and NO fuel trailer attached.

Operation Epsom Order of Battle

Last edited by Stwa on Sat Jun 14, 2014 12:55 am; edited 4 times in total
#52: Re: Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK Author: Stwa,  PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:08 pm
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Sapa wrote (View Post):
Mr Flamethrower..this thread is called FIRST IMPRESSIONS...nice of you to have them without actually play the game Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy Yes i am one of the old dinosaurs and proud of it, sorry for having any opinions...Mats


BTW, you sound like you need another nap.
#53: Re: Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK Author: Stwa,  PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:15 am
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Dima wrote (View Post):
Pzt_Kami wrote (View Post):
As I expected You guys justified the Crocodile's unbelievable performance !

what is so unbelievable in it?


Dima, you are such a kidder.  Laughing

Since the engines on the Churchill were never upgraded, the tank became increasingly slower as additional armour and armament was equipped and weight increased; while the Mk I weighed 39,118 kg (40 long tons) and the Mk III weighed 39,626 kg, the Mk VII weighed 40,643 kg. This caused a reduction in maximum speed of the tank from its original 26 kilometres per hour (16 mph) down to 20.5 kilometres per hour (12.7 mph). The engines also suffered from many mechanical problems.

Another problem was the tank's relatively small turret that prevented the use of powerful weapons; definitive versions of the tank were armed with either the QF 6 pounder or the derivative QF 75 mm gun. The 6-pdr was effective against armoured vehicles but less so against other targets, the 75mm a better all-rounder but lacking against armour. Although the Churchills with their 6 pounders could outgun many contemporary German medium tanks (like the Panzer IV with the short-barrel 75 mm gun and the Panzer III's 50 mm gun) and the thick armour of all Churchill models could usually withstand several hits from any German anti-tank gun, in the later years of the war the German Panther tank had a 75 mm high-velocity cannon as its main armament along with increased protection, against which the Churchills' own guns often lacked sufficient armour penetration to fight back effectively. -wiki

Churchill Tank

So, if you add a 6.5 ton fuel trailer and 1 ton of fuel to the Mk VII, me thinks the tank goes less than 10 miles per hour.  Laughing

And, since the pressurized trailer only lasts for 30 minutes, the effective "combat range" of this urban legend would be 5 miles maximum. What a joke.  Laughing
#54: Re: Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK Author: jakebullet70, Location: Washington State / Kherson Ukraine PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:43 am
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Stwa wrote (View Post):
Sapa wrote (View Post):
Mr Flamethrower..this thread is called FIRST IMPRESSIONS...nice of you to have them without actually play the game Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy Yes i am one of the old dinosaurs and proud of it, sorry for having any opinions...Mats


BTW, you sound like you need another nap.


I like naps.   Laughing     Give me enough energy for my main snooze later in the day.
And that lets me play more CC. I also too thought the thread was  called 'FIRST IMPRESSIONS'
#55: Re: Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK Author: HogansHeros,  PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:16 am
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Here be Crocodiles
Hidden: 
Stwa wrote (View Post):

But, now I am worried if Croc flame tanks were actually used in combat at all during Epsom, or Normandy for that matter. So maybe some better articles will show up.



The July 30 entry in Sgt. James Simpson Robertson's diary, who served in the 2nd Battalion Gordon Highlanders with the 15th (Scottish) Division, says that "Crocodile Tanks were brought up to singe the woods with flame throwers." I believe this was still "in and around Cannmont."

Page 15 of the Concise Official History 2nd Battalion The Glasgow Highlanders says that an attack at "Esquay, some 2000 yards south of the Odon" on the "evening of 15th July" included "one troop Crocodiles (Churchill flamethrowers)". The History of the 34th Armoured Brigade, on the other hand, says that "two troops of Crocodiles (141 Regt. R.A.C.)" were involved around Esquay July 15 to 18.

Page 153 of Official History of the Canadian Army in the Second World War Volume III  says of the July 4 attack on Carpiquet that "The 10th Armoured Regiment was to provide tank support, along with 'special armour' from the 79th Armoured Division— a squadron each of Flails, Crocodiles and AVREs."

That still doesn't get us back to 26 or 30 June, but certainly within striking distance.
#56: Re: Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK Author: Stwa,  PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:37 am
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jakebullet70 wrote (View Post):
I also too thought the thread was  called 'FIRST IMPRESSIONS'


Hi jakebullet. Glad you are enjoying the site.

Unless someone changes it along the way. The name of the thread is usually displayed at the top of each post.

Now, go back and check out your post. Look near the top of the post and you will see the "name of the thread" as you called it.

You will notice, that name is "Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK". That is a little different than what you said.

And TIK gave his impressions in the first post, in a video. And now we are commenting about his (TIK's) first impressions.  Laughing

Last edited by Stwa on Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:55 am; edited 1 time in total
#57: Re: Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK Author: Stwa,  PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:53 am
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HogansHeros wrote (View Post):
Here be Crocodiles
Hidden: 
Stwa wrote (View Post):

But, now I am worried if Croc flame tanks were actually used in combat at all during Epsom, or Normandy for that matter. So maybe some better articles will show up.



The July 30 entry in Sgt. James Simpson Robertson's diary, who served in the 2nd Battalion Gordon Highlanders with the 15th (Scottish) Division, says that "Crocodile Tanks were brought up to singe the woods with flame throwers." I believe this was still "in and around Cannmont."

Page 15 of the Concise Official History 2nd Battalion The Glasgow Highlanders says that an attack at "Esquay, some 2000 yards south of the Odon" on the "evening of 15th July" included "one troop Crocodiles (Churchill flamethrowers)". The History of the 34th Armoured Brigade, on the other hand, says that "two troops of Crocodiles (141 Regt. R.A.C.)" were involved around Esquay July 15 to 18.

Page 153 of Official History of the Canadian Army in the Second World War Volume III  says of the July 4 attack on Carpiquet that "The 10th Armoured Regiment was to provide tank support, along with 'special armour' from the 79th Armoured Division— a squadron each of Flails, Crocodiles and AVREs."

That still doesn't get us back to 26 or 30 June, but certainly within striking distance.


HogansHeroes,

SIR - thank you so much for this information about the Crocs.

What you found in the Canadian History, that would be 15 tanks. Flails, Crocs, and AVREs. Quite an assembly of "Funnies". Very interesting!

And I agree with you on the dates. And so, for the Crocs, maybe they needed until July to get the kinks worked out in the pressurized fuel trailers?

Again, thanks for these links ... good job!
#58: Re: Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK Author: Dima,  PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:05 pm
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Stwa,

Quote:
If true, then cite these souces, provide a link, you spammer.
 
I know what I know, if you don't know that, be my guest to make a good research and read some books. We can return to this point in a couple of years when you found some info Wink.
and yes, wiki is not a real source.

Quote:
The Operation Epsom Order of Battle states 2 troops (141st RAC) to one (or perhaps two) brigaded regiments it the 15th Scottish Division. I take 2 troops to be 6 tanks?

your link actually states 2 squadrons not troops but that's a mistake Smile.

Quote:
Here is a picture of an article that tries to identify all the 141st RAC tanks by name, during the time they were attached to 31st Armoured Tank Brigrade. (i.e. since June 6th 1944).

that's a mistake again.

Quote:
Note that the document, mentions NO flamethrower tanks, or flamethrower kits. And it doesn't mention at all if any of these tanks were in Normandy. Only Nigel Duncan's book (1972), says some where, but Duncan's book is about the 79th Armoured Division, and 141st RAC was attached to 31st Armoured Tank Brigade during this time. So my guess is, Duncan is as clueless as everyone else.

you are probably joking as your attachment shows Crocodile = Churchill VII with Crocodile flamethrower installed.

Quote:
And, since the pressurized trailer only lasts for 30 minutes, the effective "combat range" of this urban legend would be 5 miles maximum. What a joke.

re-reading 141RAC War Diary and although they mentioned that they had to reinforce all valves and seals due to leaks no mention that pressure in trailers lasts for only 30mins....
#59: Re: Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK Author: Dima,  PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:22 pm
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Quote:
And, since the pressurized trailer only lasts for 30 minutes, the effective "combat range" of this urban legend would be 5 miles maximum. What a joke.
 
Oh-ho really what a joke Smile
Ok, the report on July 30th says they need to pressure up the trailers before comitting to action and it takes 30 mins Wink.
strange that it developed in "since the pressurized trailer only lasts for 30 minutes"....
#60: Re: Gateway to Caen - FIRST IMPRESSIONS by TIK Author: Stwa,  PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 6:24 pm
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you are probably joking as your attachment shows Crocodile = Churchill VII with Crocodile flamethrower installed. -dima

So you just want to continue spamming. Ok fine.  :lol

Wiki is a good source me thinks. You can find lots of great info on weapon systems there.

Dima+books is hard to access, it's always suspect, and is surly.  Laughing

But this is part of the central problem in the literature. It says Crocodile, but if the associated units (tank, trailer) are taken apart, then what do you have? Is the fuel trailer itself refered to as a Crocodile. And they are FIELD kits after all.

And you are forgetting the fuel trailer can be jettisoned from inside the tank. So when that happens, it is no longer a Crocodile, right?

So me thinks, this is what it means:  Arrow

"We have a dozen Mk VIIs and we have 1 or 2 fuel trailers (that don't work BTW), so POTENTIALLY, all of our Mk VIIs could be Crocodiles." ... just NOT at the same time.  Laughing
Close Combat Series -> Close Combat Gateway to Caen


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