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#1: Flames of war/SS camoflage. Author: Antony_nz,

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:19 pm
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Hey guys.
With out the internet and busy work scheduled i needed to start a hobby.
I have had a dark past with miniatures. (all my collections have been lost or destroyed in horrible fights)

I was in a model store and i noticed the Flames of War collection.
They were 30 % off. And i couldn't help my self.

Flames of war is a world wide table top miniature war game. It just so happens to be from New Zealand.

In the past i was put off by some of the quality. But there are two rebuttals to this.
1. Its actually the painters fault. I have seen some perfect looking moddels on the internet. AND THE FLAMES OF WAR WEBSITE IS NOT THE BEST PLACE TO FIND THEM!
2. They are freak-en tiny! 15 mm. And if well painted, it basically eliminates the cartoon look.

Another great thing is that the boxes come with real platoons and armies. Its normal for a small box to contain 120 men.

I got German SS troops. http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=117&ProductID=4609 GBX58 SS-Infantry Company

Painting SS troops would have to be one of the hardest choices to begin flames of war. The SS practically invented modern camouflage early in the war. The SS uniforms changed alot.
I spent a huge amount of time thinking about the different color schemes.

I purchased German SS paint box. I then purchased a polish and Soviet paint pack.

The back of the box didn't help me much. Can any one identify this SS uniform?
The SS company box was to small and even the website didn't help.
My SS troops are made for early-mid war. But im thinking about breaking the rule and painting a color scheme more late than that. 44-45 eastern front.
I was going to ask the Close Combat forums for advice on camouflage and team composition. But i couldn't find the time to word my questions properly.

http://www.atthefront.com/HR/g/uni_sscamo.html
This link is an example of how complex the SS camouflage system can be.
I also found the SS flames of war guide to be not as helpful as i hoped.
I also had very specific questions about the variations of uniforms from 1 unit.
I understand that there was more variations at the end of the war because of rationing, casualty's, and merging of units.
With the FOW Guide why do some SS troops have camouflaged helmets and others gray. Was this a common thing in real life, or is it just an example set by the guide. Or is it to represent a team made up of survivors?

Another thing that bugged me, was in the FOW website, it shows the SS troops with a camouflaged top and Helmet. But there pants were black or dark Gray.
I need to know if this was always the case. Unfortunately i had already camouflaged the pants before i realized this.

With the official FOW product detail site i noticed some helmets were way more orange than others. Why?

If any one can send me a ultimate illustrated guide to SS uniforms that would be great.
The world of SS uniforms are diffidently a complex one. Any advice on or comments on SS camouflage and uniforms will be appreciated.

My inspiration for the uniforms will be the pea dot or the Leibermuster uniforms

Ill show you what i painted later

Last edited by Antony_nz on Sat Sep 06, 2014 5:33 am; edited 1 time in total

#2: Re: Flames of war/SS camoflage. Author: Gunsche,

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:51 pm
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On the box art at the back the soldier is wearing a DOT 44 "pea" pattern set.
The pea pattern was introduced in the later stage of the war and is in my opinion the most nicest looking camoflauge of the lot.
However, it wasn't distributed as common as the M42 smock. It seems to me that it was more common in some SS divisions than others. It was pretty common in the 12th Hitlerjugend SS division (along with that funky Italian cammo they also had) while in the 11th Nordland SS division it was pretty rare.

Leibermuster is a bit semi-futuristic. It was ment to be an universal piece of cammo that all branches (army, SS and airforce) would use in common. Few were issued in late 1945, but it seems that 101st Jäger division in Czheckoslovakia (light rifle division) recived most of the Leibermuster issued and some made their way to the 20.Estonian SS division.

By the way, how are your figures dressed? Do they have smocks and/or jackets? If jacket they can have either standard feldgrau uniform or DOT 44. If smock you should make it an M42 with reversable plane tree pattern, it's the most common.

Pants wise they usually had their standard feldgrau, especially when wearing smocks. However, there were many kinds of cammo pants (including thos italians once again) and usually they came in matching sets. DOT 44 pants and jacket together. But some times you see camo trousers and regular feldgrau jacket.
You decide mostly what you want Wink

I'll be damned but I want to buy a set of that Leiber¨muster cammoflauge! It looks soo "cool" Cool

My reenactor buddies would kill me if I showed up to an event in one of those Laughing

#3: Re: Flames of war/SS camoflage. Author: Antony_nz,

Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:10 pm
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This is a early model i painted. And i must say, its not very good.

I'm far more happy with this one. The soldiers on the far right and second to right are of a better quality.

Here is an example of how you can bend the man on a angle. To make him look like hes darting back and fourth. Im allso going to remove a stand and have a soldier leaping over a log or something.

Here is my first semi finished team.
Note i have not flocked the stand at the time of this photo. ( Ill upload them later) And equipment is practically unpainted. I have allso purches more paint. And for the first time ever i have ink/wash. I can finally experiment with washing my units. Washing your units add depth and dimension.

http://talesofclosecombat.blogspot.co.nz/2014/06/starting-flames-of-war.html

Thanks Gunsche! Your comments are helpfull and interesting. Sorry for the late reply.

Quote:

On the box art at the back the soldier is wearing a DOT 44 "pea" pattern set.

Why the hell does it look nothing like Pea dot 44?
Im guessing the box simplified the picture in order to somehow illustrate a painting technique or something?? I don't know. But your can clearly see it looks nothing like peadot 44. I looked up peadot 44. And the pattern looks different. I used the colors the box suggested and it does look like peadot 44. But the style of the picture doesn't.

Quote:

It seems to me that it was more common in some SS divisions than others. It was pretty common in the 12th Hitlerjugend SS division (along with that funky Italian cammo they also had) while in the 11th Nordland SS division it was pretty rare.

Thanks. Are you telling me peadot44 only saw action, or mainly saw action on the western front and not the eastern front?

I see 11th Nordland SS division was on the eastern front, but not in a major way. And it was a volentare group made op of non Germans.
Was peadot 44 overall not very common?

I will forget about Leibermuster.

Quote:

By the way, how are your figures dressed? Do they have smocks and/or jackets? If jacket they can have either standard feldgrau uniform or DOT 44. If smock you should make it an M42 with reversable plane tree pattern, it's the most common.

Smock i think? You tell me. With the picture above, is it fair to say that all are wearing smocks apart from the guy with his hand out? Is he wearing a jacket. http://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=2961 This is a link to my models.

Thanks for the advice. Have painted a large amount of my troops as seen above.

However, im going to paint 1 in 5 troops with gray pants.
1 in 5 with field gray helmet
and 1 in five with regular peadot44 helmets but without the green. So they have a orange brown color.

So my SS troops are going to be a Smorgasbord.

Lastly, im not sure if i should paint the side of there heads, under the helmets black. I see in my fist post, the photo of the two gentlemen are wearing some sort of head materiel. What are they called? I presume they are to keep the soldier head warm.

Quote:

My reenactor buddies would kill me if I showed up to an event in one of those

Haha, whys that? Wink

#4: Re: Flames of war/SS camoflage. Author: Gunsche,

Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:15 pm
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The box art is indeed wierd, it's also a bit hard to see. Firstly, it looks like the dot44 has an M36 (early war tunic) cut when it should be like the M43. Colour also look funny, might be the light.

In reality there were many variations of the pea dot pattern, especially since there were many manufactors using different paints and different ways to print the pattern, but they would look generally the same.

From a historical point of view, dot44 was not a rarity, but not common on both fronts since it arrived late in the war. However it was more common in some divisions, while a rarity to non-existant in some.
Best would be to check time-period photos of an unit you are interested in.
As for helmet covers in dot44: there are no proof of such an item existing. It would be logical to have an helmetcover in the same pattern as ones uniform but apparently they other covers such as oakleaf, rauchtarn etc. Have never seen a photograph of one and probably never will Wink

There would of course be the chance of an hand made one, but it would be very rare.

As for the uniforms: all smocks.

The head material is called Kopfschutze (headcover) and yes, it's too keep your head warm Wink

Quote:

Quote: <Select>
My reenactor buddies would kill me if I showed up to an event in one of those

Haha, whys that?

The Leibermuster would only be acceptable for one event: the german surrender in Czheckoslovakia to the western allies 1945, and we aint going to do that one Wink

However, some one is talking about doing a what if 1946 heer kit with that pattern Wink

#5: Re: Flames of war/SS camoflage. Author: Antony_nz,

Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:53 pm
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Gunsche wrote (View Post):

As for helmet covers in dot44: there are no proof of such an item existing. It would be logical to have an helmetcover in the same pattern as ones uniform but apparently they other covers such as oakleaf, rauchtarn etc. Have never seen a photograph of one and probably never will Wink

There would of course be the chance of an hand made one, but it would be very rare.
:

This is a big bombshell.
Are you telling me that the actual helmets were never peadot44 camouflage?
I'm going to remake all the helmets either field grey or "like peadot44" but instead of the base color being orange. It will now be green.

#6: Re: Flames of war/SS camoflage. Author: Gunsche,

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:23 pm
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Quote:

Are you telling me that the actual helmets were never peadot44 camouflage?

Yes, there never were any factory made covers. Same for cammo dot44 caps, no factory made although some field made examples did exsist.

#7: Re: Flames of war/SS camoflage. Author: Antony_nz,

Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 9:37 am
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Hello. I want to ask you about the panzer III L or N. Google ge034 fow. I'm asking because I have enjoyed your replies. Now.I painted the the first one eastern front custom cammo. So that's peadot beige with (so called) home made green and brown lines. I have since been advised that this is not historically correct.is that true? Should I just make them grey?

#8: Re: Flames of war/SS camoflage. Author: Antony_nz,

Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 9:44 am
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http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=110&art_id=1025. There we go. In your.view, did they do this to panzer III? I think I will just.go grey...

#9: Re: Flames of war/SS camoflage. Author: Antony_nz,

Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 9:46 am
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Another thing. The panzer in that link looks nothing like.my panzer? Again google fow ge034

#10: Re: Flames of war/SS camoflage. Author: ScnelleMeyer,

Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:49 pm
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Hey Antony!

I find the yellow over dark grey as an unusual german camo-pattern.
From february -43 all vehicles left the factory in a dark yellow coating. Units were to apply any camouflage patterns in dark green and/or brown or Whitewash as the terrain/ situation dictated.
Se this link:
http://www.panzerworld.com/german-armor-camouflage

#11: Re: Flames of war/SS camoflage. Author: Gunsche,

Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 9:50 pm
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Yeah, should be dunkelgelb (dark yellow) for the base color. Old vehicles were repainted too.
Some times they didn't bother with any camo schemes on them, but this apears mostly on training panzers.

#12: Re: Flames of war/SS camoflage. Author: Antony_nz,

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:11 am
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Thanks guys. Seems grey panzer III was only in used early war? 39-42. I will keep my panzer yellow based with the Osst front cammo. Green and brown stripes. Thanks

#13: Re: Flames of war/SS camoflage. Author: Antony_nz,

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:16 am
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http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=110&art_id=1025 the link leading to the Soviet banner is wrong. Here is the real link. Whoops

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