Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:47 amPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:09 am
Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:24 pmPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:45 amPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:43 am| stiener wrote (View Post): |
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jumping in here about the 17 pdr and 6 pdr and the APDS ammo.......
i thought it was you dima or maybe it was nomada? that said that the APDS ammo was not present at all in either gun till july in normandy? |
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| so im confused....6 pdr APDS was present in normandy for the invasion but 17 pdr APDS wasnt till july?? |
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| are you not using APDS in your historical realism mod?? |
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| are you also agreeing that regular AP ammo could take out a tiger or a panther in a frontal shot at CC ranges? |
Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:44 am
Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:37 pmPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 6:18 amPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:53 am| Jager wrote (View Post): |
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Do you mean both guns here? Also rolled Tigers hull front seems to be more durable than cast mask with irregular thickness. |
Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:56 am| stiener wrote (View Post): |
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thanks for the clarification......
as Jager asked tho...what about the 6 pdr with APDS? will it pen a panther or a tiger front armour at CC ranges? |
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Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 3:10 pm| Dima wrote (View Post): |
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Tiger didn't have cast armor and mantlet had up to 200mm thickness around a gun. |
Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:17 am| Jager wrote (View Post): |
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Can't agree here. This is common mistake routed from that people see the mantlet only from front side, but they don't realize how it looks from inside the turret. See pics applied. Mantlet is obviously cast. Hardest parts 150 mm are around coaxial MG port and bulb near sight ports. Main body is 140 and the weakest part is exactly around the gun (and scope). Weakest because thinner edges are supported from behind by sloped 100 mm horisontal bars and vertical turret walls. |
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If we compare hull front, nose and turret front we will see that sloped hull front is about 102 mm, sloped nose plus spare tracks is about 115 mm and turret front differs totally from more than 200 mm on edges to 110 mm on sight port. Generally turret front is no less than 135 mm and if we summarize across whole area we'll get 140 mm " lowest average thickness". But this armor is cast and we should multiply to coefficient less than 1 to get the equivalent of rolled armour. This means that turret front vary from 120 mm (around gun) to 215 mm (on edges) in terms of rolled armour.
Maybe you need to recalculate tiger turret in the game according to this. But in sence of 6pdr penetration yes, turret is harder. |
Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:12 am| Dima wrote (View Post): |
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looks like a drawing shows 135mm for these 6 screws? normally I take the cast armor resistance as 15-25% less than the actual thickness depending on a country and time of production. |
Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:34 pm| Quote: |
| 6pdr APDS couldn't not penetrate Panther glacis at any range. Could penetrate Panther turret with a bit of luck at any combat range*. |
Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:40 am| Cathartes wrote (View Post): |
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once again, not accurate. Panther glacis armor was notoriously of unreliable quality. |
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| Also, Dima always assumes that the 6pdr APDS is being fired at the perfect angle to always bounce off, which wasn't combat reality |
Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:03 pmPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:50 amPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:06 pm
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Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 2:05 am
Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:48 am
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