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#61: Re: Let's make a mod :) Author: Pzt_Crackwise, Location: Switzerland

Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:36 pm
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I forgot to mention that Snipers seem to be a bit worthless in this game. Has anyone else observed their pathetic performance?

@Dima: Perhaps according to feedback from other people, could you also adjust it?

GJS, or TRSM level of snipers were quite useful in certain situations, would be great if we could have snipers as in those mods.

#62: Re: Let's make a mod :) Author: Dima,

Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:01 pm
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Pzt_Crackwise wrote (View Post):

I forgot to mention that Snipers seem to be a bit worthless in this game. Has anyone else observed their pathetic performance?
@Dima: Perhaps according to feedback from other people, could you also adjust it?
GJS, or TRSM level of snipers were quite useful in certain situations, would be great if we could have snipers as in those mods.

you could notice in the list that sniper rifles were upgraded Wink

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funny is that IIRC I borrowed sniper data for my mods from GJS, but for GTC Cathartes made it different (same as it was done in stock CCs - not effective) Smile

#63: Re: Let's make a mod :) Author: stiener, Location: Gibsons B.C. canada

Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:29 pm
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Gentlemen.......as Dima has requested, the only way were going to get the data fixed for guns being more accurate is to ask steve at matrix to do it. theres a couple of threads at matrix where you can do this.
so far i havent seen to many of us post..PLEASE post. if we dont, it WILL NOT get fixed. i know this from past experience with matrix....they will say that no one else asked for a fix so its not a problem.

try this link to post to steve please Very Happy

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=3651378

#64: Re: Let's make a mod :) Author: Troger, Location: L4W's place, Australia

Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:45 pm
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Quote:

already made for IGs, pak40 f.e. is immobile - i've not posted all the changes as it would take a couple of pages Smile

Nice. Why make the Pak40 immobile? It was moveable, wasn't it?

Also, can you add two mortars per mortar team? This makes them more worth selecting, and offsets the changes you made to make them less powerful.

#65: Re: Let's make a mod :) Author: Dima,

Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:07 pm
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Troger wrote (View Post):

Nice. Why make the Pak40 immobile? It was moveable, wasn't it?

pak40 had such a strong recoil that after a couple of shots Pak40 it was virtually digged into the soft ground.
kind of hard to move 1,4 tons with 5men crew :)

Quote:

Also, can you add two mortars per mortar team? This makes them more worth selecting, and offsets the changes you made to make them less powerful.

alread done for the units that had enough mortars Wink

#66: Re: Historical realism mod :) Author: Dima,

Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:10 pm
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Should I upload weapons vs armor rebalance while iam sruggling with new FPs? Smile

#67: Re: Let's make a mod :) Author: Troger, Location: L4W's place, Australia

Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:16 pm
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Dima wrote (View Post):

Troger wrote (View Post):

Nice. Why make the Pak40 immobile? It was moveable, wasn't it?

pak40 had such a strong recoil that after a couple of shots Pak40 it was virtually digged into the soft ground.
kind of hard to move 1,4 tons with 5men crew :)

Quote:

Also, can you add two mortars per mortar team? This makes them more worth selecting, and offsets the changes you made to make them less powerful.

alread done for the units that had enough mortars Wink

Great.

Yes, I just saw this video of a PaK40 firing. Who knows what type of ammo that is firing, but that is some blast.

#68: Re: Let's make a mod :) Author: Dima,

Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:22 pm
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Troger wrote (View Post):

Great.
Yes, I just saw this video of a PaK40 firing. Who knows what type of ammo that is firing, but that is some blast.

but that's nothing in comparison to 17-pdr, neither gunner nor commander could see a tracer if it was shot at less than 1500 yards Wink

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btw, that's a good example why all the ATGs in the RA and USA had no muzzle break Smile

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the Brits and Germans were relying on one shot kill with a huge amount of powder for each shell and that's why needed a muzzle break to compensate recoil...

#69: Re: Historical realism mod :) Author: Cathartes,

Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:03 am
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Quote:

I can prove my points why I did that or that.

Not very often. You never really provide evidence, and when you do, you don't consider the whole picture.

The Isigny tests you DID cite is a classic example. You look at the data and see that 1/2 the 17pdr APDS rounds didn't hit the target area so you make the blanket assumption that only 1/2 of all APDS ammo type/batches, when fired under any circumstances, could only hit a tank 1/2 the time at any range. What you fail to see is that most of the APDS actually hit the tank in the tests, even if they did not hit the specific target area. Furthermore, do you believe that British gunners were so stupid when their lives were on the line that they didn't account for the errant flight of sabot ammo?

Do you read books or just look for tidbits of data on the internet that support your specific interpretation of history? I would urge you to have a more open mind and take in a broader spectrum of sources. You do have accurate information at times, but your dogmatism prevents you from having good peripheral vision.

#70: Re: Let's make a mod :) Author: Antony_nz,

Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:13 am
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stiener wrote (View Post):

try this link to post to steve please Very Happy

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=3651378

No mater how hard i try, i cant log onto the matrix forums to post. I merged my account from Slitherine, i tried to register. Its seems no matter what i cant log in. I couldn't log on a year back either. Seems like it cant be done.
Another thing, is there a non GwTC forum area on Matrix?

Dimas post to Steve made me laugh.

#71: Re: Historical realism mod :) Author: stiener, Location: Gibsons B.C. canada

Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:27 pm
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lets not forget that the game has to be PLAYABLE too....we sometimes overlook that fact when we try to get too historical in our data.
some allowances have to be made to make the game balanced, per say, and playable.
some of the histroical data just doesnt work and make the game playable and needs to be tweaked.

#72: Re: Historical realism mod :) Author: Pzt_Crackwise, Location: Switzerland

Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:36 pm
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By the way, Steve says that we should ask Cathartes for gun inaccuracy, since it is a data related thing. (Check the thread at the Matrix forums.)

But according to Cathartes it is a hard-coded issue... So what happens now? Very Happy

#73: Re: Historical realism mod :) Author: stiener, Location: Gibsons B.C. canada

Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:55 pm
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Dima....why are you dumbing down the bren and the sten? we have been complaining about the poor performance of the bren since cc5.
remember ...playability Smile

#74: Re: Historical realism mod :) Author: Troger, Location: L4W's place, Australia

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:27 am
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stiener wrote (View Post):

lets not forget that the game has to be PLAYABLE too....

Couldn't agree with this more.

Cathartes, you call out Dima for following a rigid interpretation of the "facts" (and I agree, it is rigid), but do you don't think you are the same way? You seem to be just as unmovable (albeit less confrontational) in your point of views. I appreciate that both of you want to recreate reality, but come on. It's Close Combat. Your editing Excel cells. This game comes no where close to being a hardcore simulator.

I think at the very least Dima's mod might be a starting ground for other mods given that it will have some changes that most us want.

#75: Re: Historical realism mod :) Author: Antony_nz,

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:34 am
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[quote="Troger";p="76282"]

stiener wrote (View Post):

lThis game comes no where close to being a hardcore simulator.

Awww i dont no.. You can probably make allot of points to back up that claim.. And granted i don't even bother too try and find other realistic war games.. Its pretty good. And it should only try to be better.

#76: Re: Historical realism mod :) Author: Dima,

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:29 am
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Cathartes wrote (View Post):

Quote:

I can prove my points why I did that or that.

Not very often. You never really provide evidence, and when you do, you don't consider the whole picture.

maybe that's because most of my opponents doesn't site their sources to disprove my statements?
I normally reply with sources against sourced critics Wink

Quote:

The Isigny tests you DID cite is a classic example. You look at the data and see that 1/2 the 17pdr APDS rounds didn't hit the target area so you make the blanket assumption that only 1/2 of all APDS ammo type/batches, when fired under any circumstances, could only hit a tank 1/2 the time at any range. What you fail to see is that most of the APDS actually hit the tank in the tests, even if they did not hit the specific target area.

WOW!
That really suprised me as I thought that link I sent to you would force you start thinking and you will make some efforts finding other reports from Normandy shootins....guess I was wrong...so here you are:
at 400 yds - APC hit 90.5%, APDS hit 56.6%
at 600 yds - APC hit 73.0%, APDS hit 34.2%

6-pdr APDS failed to penetrate Panther glacis even at 200 yds Wink

.
and yes, they couldn't hit Panther side with APDS to find out the penetration range Smile

Quote:

Furthermore, do you believe that British gunners were so stupid when their lives were on the line that they didn't account for the errant flight of sabot ammo?

funny logic, well I don't know if it was a stupidness to have gunners have a chance to hit and penetrate a heavy tank at 400 yds. Prolly better chance to hit (with high chance) and not penetrate at 400 yds? Wink

following your logic the US and RA tankers were so stupid having no 76mm ammo reliably penetrating Panther front at 400 yds.

Quote:

Do you read books or just look for tidbits of data on the internet that support your specific interpretation of history?

nice one

Quote:

I would urge you to have a more open mind and take in a broader spectrum of sources. You do have accurate information at times, but your dogmatism prevents you from having good peripheral vision.

another good one, guess that's why GtC is more similar to TRSM/BfC than GJS in terms of data Wink

#77: Re: Historical realism mod :) Author: Dima,

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:30 am
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Pzt_Crackwise wrote (View Post):

By the way, Steve says that we should ask Cathartes for gun inaccuracy, since it is a data related thing. (Check the thread at the Matrix forums.)
But according to Cathartes it is a hard-coded issue... So what happens now? Very Happy

that's wrong they can't hit at 100m with 100% accuracy Smile

#78: Re: Historical realism mod :) Author: Dima,

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:31 am
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stiener wrote (View Post):

Dima....why are you dumbing down the bren and the sten? we have been complaining about the poor performance of the bren since cc5.
remember ...playability Smile

mate, they were just made wrong, in TRSM/BFC BRENs are good killers Wink

#79: Re: Historical realism mod :) Author: Dima,

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:32 am
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Quote:

Cathartes, you call out Dima for following a rigid interpretation of the "facts" (and I agree, it is rigid), but do you don't think you are the same way? You seem to be just as unmovable (albeit less confrontational) in your point of views. I appreciate that both of you want to recreate reality, but come on. It's Close Combat. Your editing Excel cells. This game comes no where close to being a hardcore simulator.

ever tried TRSM or BFC? was it unplayable? Smile

#80: Re: Historical realism mod :) Author: Pzt_Crackwise, Location: Switzerland

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:26 am
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Hi Dima,

Another suggestion I would make here is:

-Remove the zeroing time (20 seconds iirc) for mortar smoke rounds and increase the number of smoke rounds mortar teams carry.

I don't know if it would be historical or not. However, currently using smoke while attacking and retreating is a pain in the ass and can not be pulled off reliably as it was done in CC5. This is somewhat detrimental to the tactical gameplay so it would be great if we could bring back the mortar smoke to its former glory!

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