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#1: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:08 pm
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Russia - Whats goin on..

Whats going on in Russia, and why is all this happening now?

"All this" would be:
1. Russian invasion of Georgia in 2008 : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War
2. Russian annexation of Crimea in 2014 : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation
3. Russian ongoing “annexation, call it what you like” of East Ukraine : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_pro-Russian_unrest_in_Ukraine
4. Anti gay laws et al
5. From a free Russian media to a state controlled media...
6. ....

What are the reasons, the driving factors for the Russian actions?
How does all this fit into Russia’s long term strategy?
How does the performance of the Russian economy play into this? Russia lags in a comparison to most other nations in all or most of the desirable indexes of human development and progress…

Last edited by AT_Stalky on Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:17 pm; edited 2 times in total

#2: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:14 pm
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I take the Liberty of posting a link here to a article worth Reading (thanx Cathartes) :

http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/07/24/its-not-just-about-the-malaysian-flight-russians-are-living-in-an-alternate-reality/

#3: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima,

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:37 pm
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Quote:

1. Russian invasion of Georgia in 2008 : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War

fake. Russia retaliated that time.
Probably you don't know but Saakashvilli can't come to Georgia now as the Georgian court wants him for starting that war.

Quote:

2. Russian annexation of Crimea in 2014 : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation

I've never been to Crimea and will not likely go there and my region (Kaliningrad) will get 10 times less money from the Federal budget till 2020 because all money went to Crimea but I think that was cool Smile

Quote:

3. Russian ongoing “annexation, call it what you like” of East Ukraine : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_pro-Russian_unrest_in_Ukraine

fake. If we wanted to annex it we would do already. Too expensive - see point 2. They are like cavemen there earning USD 200 a month.

Quote:

4. Anti gay laws et al

I suppport it!
you can still be a gay in Russia (most of our goverment and artists are) no problem but you are not allowed to come to the public places and promote it - that is what the law about.

Quote:

5. From a free Russian media to a state controlled media...

ahh?! we still have 150 independent TV channels as by this week.
And you think the US or Brit TV channels are independent?

Quote:

6. ....

beeing a Russian company and using Russian technologies I supply goods to all over the World including the USA, EU, China a number of independend countries like Iceland, Faroe Islands, Namibia, Guinea, etc Wink

Quote:

What are the reasons, the driving factors for the Russian actions?

bad economics situation and poor support of the goverment before Crimea.
even worse economics situation but huge support for the goverment now.

Quote:

How does all this fit into Russia’s long term strategy?

I don't think Russia has a long term strategy :(

Quote:

How does the performance of the Russian economy play into this? Russia lags in a comparison to most other nations in all or most of the desirable indexes of human development and progress…

we live free and happy in Russia Smile

.
if you don't go into politic you can do whatever Smile

Last edited by Dima on Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:39 pm; edited 2 times in total

#4: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima,

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:38 pm
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AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

I take the Liberty of posting a link here to a article worth Reading (thanx Cathartes) :
http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/07/24/its-not-just-about-the-malaysian-flight-russians-are-living-in-an-alternate-reality/

will quote myself:

Quote:

I actually tend to agree to that.
today I had a big argument with my employees explaining them why can't we just invade and occupy Ukraine. Had a hard time explaining them that when you have an economics like Russia and all the foreign payments go through New York you should sit on your ass and breath calm even if you have enough nukes to kill the World.
And I agree that most of the Russian population is really living in the alternate reality.
But that doesn't prove anything about MH17....

#5: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima,

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:53 pm
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Btw I really like Sweden, you guys are smart and after you were smashed by Russia 400 years ago you decided to be calm and could develop culture and business! Respect!
When I read that Sweden has a number 2 in the World for rapes I don't really understand it as you guys seem so calm and cool. I really like that you accepted so many foreigners to be Sweds recently and tolerate that that around 55% don't work! Maybe one day I will immigrate to Sweden too - cool climate and no need to work Smile

#6: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:08 pm
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Hia Dima

Dima wrote (View Post):

we live free and happy in Russia Smile

Theres a index called ”Quality of life index”, this is the 2014 ranking …

Link: http://www.numbeo.com/quality-of-life/rankings_by_country.jsp

Russia is at place 65 out of 78 ranked nations.
That’s not bad is it? Na, being at No 1 would be the best, and being at 78 is the worst.
Notice that Russia is outperformed by countries like: Pakistan!, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Turkey, Georgia, Bulgaria, India!, Belarus!

Now, that suggests that Russia is really Kaputin.. No?

So, Im tempted to argue that the reason why Putin controlles the media is because he don’t want the Russian to see that he’s a crap leader who’s inability’s results in Russia is lagging behind the progress of other nations, thus nation after nation is moving past Russia. Even though, Russians have got it “better”, as you would say.

#7: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima,

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:20 pm
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Quote:

Russia is at place 65 out of 78 ranked nations.
That’s not bad is it? Na, being at No 1 would be the best, and being at 78 is the worst.
Notice that Russia is outperformed by countries like: Pakistan!, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Turkey, Georgia, Bulgaria, India!, Belarus!

I really don't understand it, I live in Kaliningrad region between Poland and Lithuania (no borders with mainland Russia) and what I can see that there are lines of polish cars at out West border and lines of Lithuanian cars at our east border coming here to earn some money. Do these countries have higher places than Russia?
Poland forces the EU to exclusively have non-visa area for Kaliningrad and Poland - about 300km width - to earn money. They started to build alot of super stores like Carefour, Makro, Leklerk, etc to get the Kaliningrad people as the prices are about 30% lower than in Kaliningrad.
We have like 3mlns of Ukranians (~5% of population) working in Russia right now. More from other CIS countries as they can have very good (in comparison to their homes) salaries here. We buy alot of premises in Bulgaria as they are very cheap for Russians, we generate like 30% of Turkey income from tourists as that's a kind of our home resort country (neve been there though). We fly to Minks (Belorus) or Warsaw (Poland) or Vilnius (Lithuania) to have a fun on weekend as they are very cheap and like us Smile

.
So most likely here are poor people in the RF but Im the wrong person to talk about Smile

Quote:

Now, that suggests that Russia is really Kaputin.. No?

nah, grunts are brainwashed, like any other country grunts the US f.e.
but we, the upper middle class, live free and happy here Wink

.
Come to Kaliningrad I will show - Tippo was here once, he seemed to like and change his opinion about Russia Wink

Quote:

So, Im tempted to argue that the reason why Putin controlles the media is because he don’t want the Russian to see that he’s a crap leader who’s inability’s results in Russia is lagging behind the progress of other nations, thus nation after nation is moving past Russia. Even though, Russians have got it “better”, as you would say.

Putin doesn't need to do that as grunts are so happy about stability and USD 600 a month so they don't ask anything.
they DO really go and vote for him as they think he has brought a STABILITY for them after the disasterous 90s.

And again, Im the wrong person to argue about Putin's glory as I don't support him or his actions (except Crimea Smile

)

#8: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:37 pm
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Hay Dima.

This was previously posted in another thread, but this is the thread for it:

Lets look at other indicators of national performance. Average life expectancy is a grate indicator of a socio/economic performance. It gives a comprehensive unbiased indicator of social and economical development.

I’m using WHO data of life expectancy in the year 1990 and 2012:

In 1990 Russia had an average life expectancy of 69 years.
In 2012 Russia had an average life expectancy of 69 years.

As we can see, Russia has not increased its life expectancy in 22 years.

Lets look at other countries, and see how they developed:
In 1990 China had an average life expectancy of 69 years.
In 2012 China had an average life expectancy of 75 years.

So, China has a better statistics here. They increased the life expectancy from 69 years in 1990 to 75 years in 2012. That’s an increase in 6 years, compared to Russias 0 [zero] years.

Lets look at other countries, and see how they developed:
In 1990 Indonesia had an average life expectancy of 62 years.
In 2012 Indonesia had an average life expectancy of 71 years.

Hm, so Indonesia has had some good development, starting from low 3-rd world figures, and now beats Russia with 2 years.

Lets be very fair here. Lets look at the former Soviet States and Soviet stateliest and see how they developed compared to Russia, in the same period 1990 and 2012 figures.. This ought to give a good indicator of performance as all the sates was soviet controlled or communist satellites in 1990. Thus they started from similar conditions in 1990, this ought to give an very fair good indicator of preformance.

A reminder of Russian development in life expectancy from 1990 to 2012:

In 1990 Russia had an average life expectancy of 69 years.
In 2012 Russia had an average life expectancy of 69 years.

Lets look at the former soviet state Kyrgyzstan, and see how they developed from 1990 to 2012:
In 1990 Kyrgyzstan (under Soviet/Russian domination) had an average life expectancy of 66 years.
In 2012 Kyrgyzstan had a average life expectancy of 69 years.

So, since Kyrgyzstan was made independent from Soviet/Russia its life expectancy has increased, while at the same time Putins Russia life expectancy has not increased. Is Putin more than a nationalistic wind-bag?

Lets look at other countries in the former Soviet/Russian empire, and see how they developed:
In 1990 Uzbecistan (under Soviet/Russian era) had an average life expectancy of 67 years.
In 2012 the free Uzbecistan had a average life expectancy of 69 years.

Uzbecistan has now the same life expectancy as Putin-Russia…

Lets look at other countries in the former Soviet/Russian empire, and see how they developed:
In 1990 Latvia (under Soviet/Russian era) had a average life expectancy of 69 years.
In 2012 the free Lativia had a average life expectancy of 79 years.

Since Latvia was made independent from Russia in 1990 up to 2012 its life expectancy has increased with 10 years…

Lets look at another soviet satellite like Poland, and see how they developed in the same period:
In 1990 Poland (as a soviet/russian communist satellite) had an life expectancy of 71 years.
In 2012 the free Poland had a average life expectancy of 77 years.

As Russia has failed in increasing the life expectancy, other soviet- nations and satellite nation has not failed. Poland has increased the Life expect of 6 years, thus outpreformes Russia.

Oh, Lets look at another soviet “satellite” like Cuba, who still believe in communism, and see how they developed in the same period:

In 1990 Cuba had an life expectancy of 74 years.
In 2012 Cuba had a average life expectancy of 79 years.

Russia is outperformed by the communist Castro Cuba.…

In 2013 Russia was ranked on place 124 of 194 countries in Life expectancy. Russia was outperformed by nations like: Moldavia, Ukraine, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Morocco, Philippines, Fiji, Egypt, Algeria, Iran, Albania!!!, Lebanon!!!, Armenia, Georgia, Jordan, Sri Lanka, Syria, Vietnam, … etc etc,…. Russia was ranked 124…. Russia was outperformed by 3 rd world countries en masse.

Doesnt these figures suggest that Russia kaputin?

#9: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima,

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:41 pm
—

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Hay Dima.

This was previously posted in another thread, but this is the thread for it:

Lets look at other indicators of national performance. Average life expectancy is a grate indicator of a socio/economic performance. It gives a comprehensive unbiased indicator of social and economical development.

I’m using WHO data of life expectancy in the year 1990 and 2012:

In 1990 Russia had an average life expectancy of 69 years.
In 2012 Russia had an average life expectancy of 69 years.

As we can see, Russia has not increased its life expectancy in 22 years.

Lets look at other countries, and see how they developed:
In 1990 China had an average life expectancy of 69 years.
In 2012 China had an average life expectancy of 75 years.

So, China has a better statistics here. They increased the life expectancy from 69 years in 1990 to 75 years in 2012. That’s an increase in 6 years, compared to Russias 0 [zero] years.

Lets look at other countries, and see how they developed:
In 1990 Indonesia had an average life expectancy of 62 years.
In 2012 Indonesia had an average life expectancy of 71 years.

Hm, so Indonesia has had some good development, starting from low 3-rd world figures, and now beats Russia with 2 years.

Lets be very fair here. Lets look at the former Soviet States and Soviet stateliest and see how they developed compared to Russia, in the same period 1990 and 2012 figures.. This ought to give a good indicator of performance as all the sates was soviet controlled or communist satellites in 1990. Thus they started from similar conditions in 1990, this ought to give an very fair good indicator of preformance.

A reminder of Russian development in life expectancy from 1990 to 2012:

In 1990 Russia had an average life expectancy of 69 years.
In 2012 Russia had an average life expectancy of 69 years.

Lets look at the former soviet state Kyrgyzstan, and see how they developed from 1990 to 2012:
In 1990 Kyrgyzstan (under Soviet/Russian domination) had an average life expectancy of 66 years.
In 2012 Kyrgyzstan had a average life expectancy of 69 years.

So, since Kyrgyzstan was made independent from Soviet/Russia its life expectancy has increased, while at the same time Putins Russia life expectancy has not increased. Is Putin more than a nationalistic wind-bag?

Lets look at other countries in the former Soviet/Russian empire, and see how they developed:
In 1990 Uzbecistan (under Soviet/Russian era) had an average life expectancy of 67 years.
In 2012 the free Uzbecistan had a average life expectancy of 69 years.

Uzbecistan has now the same life expectancy as Putin-Russia…

Lets look at other countries in the former Soviet/Russian empire, and see how they developed:
In 1990 Latvia (under Soviet/Russian era) had a average life expectancy of 69 years.
In 2012 the free Lativia had a average life expectancy of 79 years.

Since Latvia was made independent from Russia in 1990 up to 2012 its life expectancy has increased with 10 years…

Lets look at another soviet satellite like Poland, and see how they developed in the same period:
In 1990 Poland (as a soviet/russian communist satellite) had an life expectancy of 71 years.
In 2012 the free Poland had a average life expectancy of 77 years.

As Russia has failed in increasing the life expectancy, other soviet- nations and satellite nation has not failed. Poland has increased the Life expect of 6 years, thus outpreformes Russia.

Oh, Lets look at another soviet “satellite” like Cuba, who still believe in communism, and see how they developed in the same period:

In 1990 Cuba had an life expectancy of 74 years.
In 2012 Cuba had a average life expectancy of 79 years.

Russia is outperformed by the communist Castro Cuba.…

In 2013 Russia was ranked on place 124 of 194 countries in Life expectancy. Russia was outperformed by nations like: Moldavia, Ukraine, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Morocco, Philippines, Fiji, Egypt, Algeria, Iran, Albania!!!, Lebanon!!!, Armenia, Georgia, Jordan, Sri Lanka, Syria, Vietnam, … etc etc,…. Russia was ranked 124…. Russia was outperformed by 3 rd world countries en masse.

Doesnt these figures suggest that Russia kaputin?

I will quote myself:

Quote:

Maybe you should stop now and study subject?
http://www.rferl.org/content/life-expectancy-cis-report/24946030.html
Male life expectancy in Russia fell from 63 years in 1990 to 58 in 2000, and rose again to 62 years in 2009. Female life expectancy in Russia has remained fairly steady. It was 74 years in 1990, dipped to 72 in 2000, and rose back to 74 years in 2009.

So no, for the grunts Putin is the savior Wink

#10: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima,

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:44 pm
—
Stalk,

stop a berserk mode, you are arguing yourself using bad data Wink

#11: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:44 pm
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I forgot, a developed World view of it:

And let me inform you that while Russia had an average life expectancy of 69 years in 2012 other developed countries life expectancy in 2012 was:
Sweden 82 years
Switz 83 years
UK 81 years
France 82 years
Germany 81 years
Norway 82 years

See what I mean...

#12: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima,

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:46 pm
—

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

I forgot, a developed World view of it:
And let me inform you that while Russia had an average life expectancy of 69 years in 2012 other developed countries life expectancy in 2012 was:
Sweden 82 years
Switz 83 years
UK 81 years
France 82 years
Germany 81 years
Norway 82 years
See what I mean...

has any of these countries were pillaged for 10 years?
it's always better to be rich and healthy then poor and ill Wink

#13: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:47 pm
—
Moving on... :

Dima old mate

Dima wrote (View Post):

I don't think Russia has a long term strategy

Now, either your just covering things up and being a good litte putinist, or your plain ignorant.
Mate, we know you. You’re one of the most clever guys, so I believe it’s the first.

Let me present our dear Mr: Aleksandr Gelyevich Dugin

Dugin is the adviser to the State Duma speaker as well as key member of “United Russia party” that’s Putins party, isn’t it? He’s the chief ideologue and the founder of the Eurasia movement, Right? Dugin is the guy who are the author of “Foundation of geopolitics”, right?
Hm, we sometimes ask our self, “Why dint the leaders in 1930 th read Mein Kampf…”

Today, I ask my self, “Why don’t we read Dugins “Foundation of geopolitics”, or at least take 5 minutes and read a summery of it?
There we have it, the blue print of the Russian strategy for this centaury: subversion, destabilization, disinformation by the Russian special forces. Sounds familiar?

It’s a plan to Russify the whole Europe region and part of Asia and the middle east, though under different ethnic influences. Recreating the M-R pact in a new dress, more Russified than the last time..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Russia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Dugin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics
Read this:
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/expansionist+behind+Putin/9801689/story.html
http://old.cacianalyst.org/?q=node/4928

This guy Dugin made the grand strategy for Putins Russia: his strategy is uniting the Russian speaking people under Russia. Retake the old Russian Empire borders, that means Baltic’s, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania as well as Finland Belarus, Georgia, AND Crimea AND Ukraine, as well as a whole lot of other states….

#14: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima,

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:49 pm
—
too many letter for me now Smile

check yer pm.

#15: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:00 pm
—

Dima wrote (View Post):

has any of these countries were pillaged for 10 years?

Yes actually. Here is a list of countries that was at war during the timeframe… Lets see how they fair compared to Putin-Russia…

A reminder of Russian development in life expectancy from 1990 to 2012:

In 1990 Russia had an average life expectancy of 69 years.
In 2012 Russia had an average life expectancy of 69 years.

Putin Russia had 0 [zero] life expectancy increase in 22 years.

In 1990 Iraq had an average life expectancy of 69 years.
In 2012 Iraq had an average life expectancy of 71 years.

In this timeframe Iraq had 2 wars, and major internal fighting, 13-years of sanctions and isolation, still they managed to increase therer life expectancy with 2 years, while at the same time supa-kaputin-russia managed zero years..
But kaputin russia is so grate..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_war
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctions_against_Iraq

In 1990 Bosnia had an average life expectancy of 73 years.
In 2012 Bosnia had an average life expectancy of 77 years.

Bosnia had a 4 year war in the 90 th.. They had a genoside…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_War
Still they have increased there lidfe expectancy with 4 years during the same time as supa-putin-russia had zero…

In 1990 Croatia had an average life expectancy of 73 years.
In 2012 Croatia had an average life expectancy of 78 years.

Croatia had a war:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croat%E2%80%93Bosniak_War
And still Croatia managed to increase there life expectancy of 5 years, while at the same time
Russia managed 0 [zero]..

Oh man, Lebanon…
In 1990 Lebanon had an average life expectancy of 67 years.
In 2012 Lebanon had an average life expectancy of 80 years.

Well... anything else?

Seem to me that its still kaputin...

Last edited by AT_Stalky on Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:58 am; edited 1 time in total

#16: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima,

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:56 am
—

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Moving on... :

Dima old mate

Dima wrote (View Post):

I don't think Russia has a long term strategy

Now, either your just covering things up and being a good litte putinist, or your plain ignorant.
Mate, we know you. You’re one of the most clever guys, so I believe it’s the first.

Let me present our dear Mr: Aleksandr Gelyevich Dugin

Dugin is the adviser to the State Duma speaker as well as key member of “United Russia party” that’s Putins party, isn’t it? He’s the chief ideologue and the founder of the Eurasia movement, Right? Dugin is the guy who are the author of “Foundation of geopolitics”, right?
Hm, we sometimes ask our self, “Why dint the leaders in 1930 th read Mein Kampf…”

Today, I ask my self, “Why don’t we read Dugins “Foundation of geopolitics”, or at least take 5 minutes and read a summery of it?
There we have it, the blue print of the Russian strategy for this centaury: subversion, destabilization, disinformation by the Russian special forces. Sounds familiar?

It’s a plan to Russify the whole Europe region and part of Asia and the middle east, though under different ethnic influences. Recreating the M-R pact in a new dress, more Russified than the last time..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Russia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Dugin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics
Read this:
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/expansionist+behind+Putin/9801689/story.html
http://old.cacianalyst.org/?q=node/4928
This guy Dugin made the grand strategy for Putins Russia: his strategy is uniting the Russian speaking people under Russia. Retake the old Russian Empire borders, that means Baltic’s, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania as well as Finland Belarus, Georgia, AND Crimea AND Ukraine, as well as a whole lot of other states….

wow never heard about that guy Smile

looks like a crazy mean bastard Smile

this guy is commonly known to be an ideologist of Kremlin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladislav_Surkov

if our "elite" had the long term strategy they would develop economy...but obviously they don't

Last edited by Dima on Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:08 am; edited 1 time in total

#17: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima,

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:07 am
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[quote]

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Dima wrote (View Post):

has any of these countries were pillaged for 10 years?

Yes actually. Here is a list of countries that was at war during the timeframe… Lets see how they fair compared to Putin-Russia…

mate, the problem was not in war we had but in lost connections in ex-republics..I suggest you to read this book to understand the USSR economics and industry - http://www.amazon.com/Collapse-Empire-Lessons-Modern-Russia/dp/0815731140

Quote:

A reminder of Russian development in life expectancy from 1990 to 2012:
In 1990 Russia had an average life expectancy of 69 years.
In 2012 Russia had an average life expectancy of 69 years.

again you should take at least 3 points 1990-2000-2012 and then you will see that life expendancy in Russia was going down till 2005 and then starting to return to 1990 level.
http://www.indexmundi.com/facts/indicators/SP.DYN.LE00.IN/compare?country=iq#country=ba:hr:iq:lb:ru

Quote:

Putin Russia had 0 [zero] life expectancy increase in 22 years.

sorry to disappoint you but there was Eltsin and Gorbachev Russia 22 years ago Wink

. so whom to blame?

Quote:

Seem to me that its still kaputin...

how can't you notice that even all your stats showing growth for Russia in last years?

and again, that's not because of great Putin but because of the good prices for natural resources.

#18: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Troger, Location: L4W's place, Australia

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:15 am
—

Dima wrote (View Post):

Quote:

1. Russian invasion of Georgia in 2008 : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War

fake. Russia retaliated that time.

False. Russian separatists instigated a fight, just like they have done in eastern Ukraine.

Dima wrote (View Post):

Probably you don't know but Saakashvilli can't come to Georgia now as the Georgian court wants him for starting that war.

False. Saakashvili is not wanted for "starting the war." He's been summoned for question regarding a murder case.

Dima wrote (View Post):

Quote:

2. Russian annexation of Crimea in 2014 : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation

Was the brutal subjugation of Crimean Tartars (the people who can claim Crimea as their ancestral homeland) taught to you in school? Or is Crimea just portrayed as the a place where Russians always roamed free? (as so many Russians were claiming months ago)

Dima wrote (View Post):

Quote:

3. Russian ongoing “annexation, call it what you like” of East Ukraine : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_pro-Russian_unrest_in_Ukraine

fake. If we wanted to annex it we would do already. Too expensive - see point 2. They are like cavemen there earning USD 200 a month.

Sure, Russia could annex it, but then even the EU couldn't ignore that and they would have to sanction it's business with you. Russia is supporting the rebels with everything they need, simply to sow unrest for the Ukrainian government, not in hopes of ever taking the region over.

Dima wrote (View Post):

Quote:

5. From a free Russian media to a state controlled media...

ahh?! we still have 150 independent TV channels as by this week.

Your main newspapers and television stations are state-owned, state-funded (directly or indirectly), and/or state-ran. There are only a few truly independent news sources. Majority of the U.S. and British are private, independent media outlets.

Russia's ranking in the 2014 Press Freedom Index: 148th out of 179 countries, giving it a "bad" rating. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_the_press_in_Russia

#19: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: pvt_Grunt, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:32 am
—
Like many countries, using the term "Russia" is a huge generalisation. There are obviously many different parts of the country with different standards of living and even diffenrent culture / customs.
A country like Russia is simply too large and complicated to pigeon hole with statistics.

#20: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima,

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:12 am
—

Troger wrote (View Post):

Dima wrote (View Post):

Quote:

1. Russian invasion of Georgia in 2008 : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War

fake. Russia retaliated that time.

False. Russian separatists instigated a fight, just like they have done in eastern Ukraine.

the report of the EU comission clearly said Georgia attacked, Russian retaliated.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/29/world/europe/29georgia.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
http://www.dw.de/independent-report-blames-georgia-for-south-ossetia-war/a-4746802

Quote:

Dima wrote (View Post):

Probably you don't know but Saakashvilli can't come to Georgia now as the Georgian court wants him for starting that war.

False. Saakashvili is not wanted for "starting the war." He's been summoned for question regarding a murder case.

yes, my bad, read that they had started a new investigation last year.
he's summoned for questions for 10 cases.

Quote:

Dima wrote (View Post):

Quote:

2. Russian annexation of Crimea in 2014 : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation

Quote:

Dima wrote (View Post):

Quote:

3. Russian ongoing “annexation, call it what you like” of East Ukraine : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_pro-Russian_unrest_in_Ukraine

fake. If we wanted to annex it we would do already. Too expensive - see point 2. They are like cavemen there earning USD 200 a month.

the militia says they can't get modern ATGM from Russia. Whom should we believe you or them?

Quote:

Dima wrote (View Post):

Quote:

5. From a free Russian media to a state controlled media...

ahh?! we still have 150 independent TV channels as by this week.

yes, but there are still 150 independend TV channels as by last week - everyone can choose what to watch.

Quote:

Russia's ranking in the 2014 Press Freedom Index: 148th out of 179 countries, giving it a "bad" rating. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_the_press_in_Russia

can't argue Smile

#21: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 7:06 am
—
We must try to get to know Russia a bit more. As they are so eager to spread there superior lifestyle, culture, technology, economics as well as political life.

I posted this before in another thread, but its here it belongs:

Let’s look at another subject, where Putin-Russia stands out.

Corruption!

Russia is ranked 35 in the world on corruption. That’s not bad is it?
Na, see, being No:1 is not the best, but the worst.
Being at the end of the list at rank 180 would be the best.

There Putin-Russia is at Rank 35, amongst Sierra Leone, and Timor…

Actually Pakistan is at rank 43, thus outperforms Russia… Bangladesh at rank 45, Uganda at 46, Nigeria at rank 47… Now there’s some countries that Putin Russia should have as role models.

Link: http://www.ranker.com/list/the-most-corrupt-countries-in-the-world/info-lists?limit=100

I dount know why, but Russia looks a bit kaputin to me...

Hush, silence, listen now, let Dima show us the “Putin-kin village.*”

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potemkin_village

#22: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima,

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 7:52 am
—

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

We must try to get to know Russia a bit more. As they are so eager to spread there superior lifestyle, culture, technology, economics as well as political life.
I posted this before in another thread, but its here it belongs:
Let’s look at another subject, where Putin-Russia stands out.
Corruption!
Russia is ranked 35 in the world on corruption. That’s not bad is it?
Na, see, being No:1 is not the best, but the worst.
Being at the end of the list at rank 180 would be the best.
There Putin-Russia is at Rank 35, amongst Sierra Leone, and Timor…
Actually Pakistan is at rank 43, thus outperforms Russia… Bangladesh at rank 45, Uganda at 46, Nigeria at rank 47… Now there’s some countries that Putin Russia should have as role models.
Link: http://www.ranker.com/list/the-most-corrupt-countries-in-the-world/info-lists?limit=100
I dount know why, but Russia looks a bit kaputin to me...
Hush, silence, listen now, let Dima show us the “Putin-kin village.*”
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potemkin_village

Matts, comon, you are getting stuck in your own arguments. Start to use logic please.
I will repeat again:

Quote:

http://www.transparency.org/cpi2013/results
http://www.transparency.org/cpi2010/results
According to the Transparence International Corruption Perceptions Index Russia went from place 154 (out of 178) in 2010 to place 127 (out of 175) in 2013.
So it's obvious we are fighting the corruption here slowly
While in same time f.e. Ukraine went from place 134 (out of 178) in 2010 to place 144 (out of 175) in 2013.

Don't you think that having almost 20% less corruption in 3 years is a good results?

#23: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Troger, Location: L4W's place, Australia

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:11 am
—

Dima wrote (View Post):

Georgia might have initiated things militarily but Russia encouraged the rebels who openly resisted governance by Tbilisi. Donetsk and Luhansk are basically a repeat of South Ossetia without Russian intervention.

Dima wrote (View Post):

Why do you bring up the plight of the American Indians? I asked you a serious question, I wasn't being sarcastic. But yes, they teach the history of how early Americans destroyed the Indian way of life, it's not hidden or distorted. And there are some Americans who probably could care less about what happened (the grunts, as you would call them), but most sensible people recognize that it was an atrocity.

I'm wondering if your history books talk about the more recent treatment of Tartars by the communists. I read and heard so many comments that made it seem like some Russians regarded Crimea as "always" a part of Russia, which is nonsense.

And I actually think the annexation of Crimea by Russia is a good thing. The majority of people there are Russian now, so it seems fit for it to be a part of Russia. And, the big plus for the Ukraine is the ~2million less voters who normally vote for the Party of Regions and the communists.

Dima wrote (View Post):

the militia says they can't get modern ATGM from Russia. Whom should we believe you or them?

Come on Dima, it's a fact that Russia is supplying arms to the rebels. And, why wouldn't Russia arm them? It makes sense for them to support ethnic Russians.

#24: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:29 am
—

Dima wrote (View Post):

Don't you think that having almost 20% less corruption in 3 years is a good results?

No, it doesn’t say Russia has 20 % less corruption. Where can you see that?

But the question is… As Putin came to power in 1999, now its 15 years later… The country he rules over is ranked at 35 from the bottom, or 48 at the bottom as thee worst corrupt countries in the world…

And you think Putin is doing fine after 15 years in power?

Is that all it takes to make Russians happy?

#25: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:37 am
—

pvt_Grunt wrote (View Post):

A country like Russia is simply too large and complicated to pigeon hole with statistics.

Where do you get that idea from…

Here is a list of the 10 largest countries in the world, life expectancy 1990 and 2012:

Year; country; life expectancy in years:

In 1990 Russia had an average life expectancy of 69 years.
In 2012 Russia had an average life expectancy of 69 years.

Russia has not increased its life expectancy 69-69=0

In 1990 Canada had an average life expectancy of 77 years.
In 2012 Canada had an average life expectancy of 82 years.

Lets see, the worlds second largest country is Canada it has increased its life expectancy 82-77=5 years while Russia has not.

In 1990 China had an average life expectancy of 69 years.
In 2012 China had an average life expectancy of 75 years.
China increased its life expectancy with +6 years.

In 1990 USA had an average life expectancy of 75 years.
In 2012 USA had an average life expectancy of 79 years.
USA with +4.

In 1990 Brazil had an average life expectancy of 66 years.
In 2012 Brazil had an average life expectancy of 74 years.
Brazil with 8 years… Or as we say, 8-0 to Brazil… Do they need a putin you think?

In 1990 Australia had an average life expectancy of 76 years.
In 2012 Australia had an average life expectancy of 81 years.
The grate nation of …. +5 years…

In 1990 India had an average life expectancy of 58 years.
In 2012 India had an average life expectancy of 66 years.
India managed +8 years…

In 1990 Argentina had an average life expectancy of 73 years.
In 2012 Argentina had an average life expectancy of 76 years.
Hmm, +3…

In 1990 Kazakhstan under Soviet/russian rule had an average life expectancy of 58 years.
In 2012 the free Kazakhstan had an average life expectancy of 66 years.
Upz, the former Soviet state, has increased its life expectancy with 8 years, to Russia 0 years… Do they need a putin too?

In 1990 Algeria had an average life expectancy of 68 years.
In 2012 Algeria had an average life expectancy of 72 years.
Algeria + 4. Interesting as it is, Russia is outperformed by more than half of Africa…

Funny (or tragic) as it is, ALL the worlds largest countries is showing progress, except…. Kaputins Russia.

What’s next, maybe a map showing all Russians neighbours progress in life expectancy… That ought to say something..

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#26: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:43 am
—

Dima wrote (View Post):

{...] stats showing growth for Russia in last years? and again, that's not because of great Putin but because of the good prices for natural resources.

So you do agree afterall.. Kaputin. Very Happy

I was comming to the russian economy, but is saving that for some pages.

#27: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:43 am
—

Dima wrote (View Post):

sorry to disappoint you but there was Jeltsin and Gorbachev Russia 22 years ago Wink

. so whom to blame?
.

And here we have the usual blame game of the Russian media/politicians.
If the car doesn’t start in the morning, the average Russian say “its that dammed Jeltsins fault”.. And now if more than half of Africans countries move ahead Russia in the desirable indexes Russians collectively say, “its that dammed …. fault.”.
Remember, not to hold kaputin accountable, he’s only been in power for 15 years…

We heard it a million times, “Its all Jeltsin’s fault and/or Gorbatjev’s fault.”

Is that really so, is it true or is it just a myth, or is the truth some ware in-between?

I have a theory, that Jeltsin did both good and bad. Lets see.. As we have debated before, childbirth and that translates to child mortality.. Its rather important indicators as they are not only tragic but also affect the life expectancy. They show how well the health care in a country works, as well as how the state manage to take care of the less fortunate giving everyone a “equal” start in life...

I attach a image of child mortality, and marks the Jeltsin and kaputin era on it.. WHO data.

Now, how about that?

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#28: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:27 am
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Dima wrote (View Post):

again you should take at least 3 points 1990-2000-2012 and then you will see that life expendancy in Russia was going down till 2005 and then starting to return to 1990 level..

In the image attached we have Russian life expectancy, I have taken the liberty of marking out the Jeltsin era, as well as the kaPutin era. I also made a trend line, that we call the “Jeltsin trend”.

So what do we see in this image...

jeltsin and putin life expectdd (kopia)xxx.gif

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#29: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: DAK_Legion,

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:40 pm
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Dima must died;)

80 Yers old in Russia???I think that YES
a greetings!!

#30: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 2:48 pm
—
Dima mate your funny.

You have not heard of Aleksandr Gelyevich Dugin::

Dima wrote (View Post):

wow never heard about that guy Smile

looks like a crazy mean bastard

And then you point me to this book, to educate me:

Dima wrote (View Post):

And when I reading the book, I fined that the author startes the book with qoutes of Dugin, see the first attachment named Dugin.gif.

Dima mate, I just cant help it, but it feels just a tiny little bit like you have not read the book at all.
Because the book contradicts most you argued here. I also found this:

(qouts are in the images attached)
1. The author believes that Gorbatjev and the commy should have done what Jeltsin did, liberal economy..
2. The author thinks Russian is playing a blame game, tin foils en masse.. (green aria)
3. (In the first part of yellow, he talks about Jeltsin era) Jeltsin created an economic system that was chock resistant, imperfekt but yet... Then, came the worrying signes... Putin started to reverse things…
4. The free media was destroyed in the early 2000. (blue)
5. He also suggests that the “autonomy” of the regions is just a chasm.
6. The author argues that Russia is lagging behind 50 years, compared with the developed world. . (red)

Attached a image with the qouts..

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#31: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj,

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:36 pm
—
I miss the days of Boris Yeltsin...the best leader of post-USSR era in Russia. Almost single-handedly led the protests that eventually led to the collapse of USSR. He was about as anti-USSR as a Russian leader can get. The problem now is that Putin has been in power ever since...after he came to power reverted direction back to Cold-War era style dictatorship. After all he personally was KGB. The only complaint about Boris is that he drank too much Vodka. Very Happy

#32: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:52 pm
—
As its important to know our future masters..

Let me present our dear Mr: Vladimir Zjirinovskij

Vladimir Zjirinovskij twice vice chairman of the Russian Duma.
He’s a colonel in the Russian army.
Founder and leader of Liberal Democrat Party of Russia. (na, hes not a democrat)

This guys agenda is to retake the former Russian empire borders, and beyond. That includes Finland, Baltics, Poland, Georgia and Ukraine etc etc and even Alaska, even India!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Zhirinovsky

I don’t really like Videos, but take a look at this guy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JnToiuWL2A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbifHevHekE

In any civilized country one such performance is enough…

Theres more vids...

You think he’s a clown..? Your wrong. Within some years, this guy may well be the person who has the keys to half the worlds nukes.

Russians love this man, election result:
year; type of election; result
1991 presidential elections – 8%
1993 Duma elections – 23%
1995 Duma elections – 11%
1996 presidential elections – 6%
1999 Duma elections – 5.98% (it contested them as the 'Zhirinovsky Bloc')
2000 presidential elections – 2.7%
2003 Duma elections – 12%
2007 Duma elections – 8.8%
2008 presidential election – 9.35% [17]
2011 Duma elections – 12.5%
2012 presidential election – 6.2%

#33: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:17 pm
—
The “reasons” why Russia is ranked so poor at 124 in the world:

Dima wrote (View Post):

[apart from Russia] has any of these countries been pillaged for 10 years?

Yes, I have a candidate that "matches" that. Germany after WW2… Germany was bombed into crap up to 1945, and what remained of its industry was pillaged and stolen.

Dima wrote (View Post):

the problem [for Russia] was not in war we had but in lost connections in ex-republics..

Yes, I also have a candidate to match that. I suggest we look at Germany after ww2… :

Large arias was taken by the allies, see map. What remained of Germany was divided in 4 zones after WW2. Then they formed 2 states, one capitalistic and one Soviet satellite. Talking about lost connections, Germany was divided by the “iron curtain”, … And 11 [eleven] million Germans was taken as POW’s or slave labours. Many of them did not return to Germany until Stalin died.

So there you have the comparison, the candidate is west Germany after WW2…
From the end of WW2 in 1945 up to 1960, is 15 years. In year 1960 Germany had a life expectancy of 69,5 years. This made Germany rank at the top in the world, at place 18 .

Today , Putins has been in power for 15 years and Russia has a life expectancy of 69 years. This makes Russia rank 124 in the world among the worst preforming countries… After 15 years.....

So if we compare: in the year 1960 Germany = 69,5 thus outperformed Supa KaPutins Russias in 2012 at 69 years….

Now, I argues that the reason why kaPutin has taken control over the media, is because Russian's would be upset if they know how bad Russia is in a comparison..

Oh , i forgot to mention: Today, (2012) Germany has a life expectancy of 81 years..

#34: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Troger, Location: L4W's place, Australia

Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 1:16 am
—

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Founder and leader of Liberal Democrat Party of Russia. (na, hes not a democrat)

The "liberal democrat" party. Talk about a misleading name for a political party.

#35: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj,

Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:02 am
—

Troger wrote (View Post):

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Founder and leader of Liberal Democrat Party of Russia. (na, hes not a democrat)

The "liberal democrat" party. Talk about a misleading name for a political party.

Actually the term "liberal democrat" in America has a similar fake or misleading meaning, similar to Russia. In America, the so-called "liberal" Democratic party is a lie. Hillary Clinton and Secretary of State John Kerry both were 100% complicit in the illegal invasion of Iraq. BOTH of them voted "yes" for war & the greatest increase in defense/security spending in the history of America. Eventually this contributed towards the escalation of our Police-State with 25% of world prison population in our jail system. Not even remotely close to what Western Europe would call liberal. Now the Federal Government bribes local law enforcement agencies with $ in exchange for storming into homes and putting even more people in jail. Including assassination of dogs and traumatizing little kids...without even having proof of the alleged crime. So much for a liberal democracy in America.

#36: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: pvt_Grunt, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:17 am
—
I found this article interesting
http://www.nytimes.com/newsgraphics/2013/10/13/russia/?WT.mc_id=D-NYT-MKTG-MOD-93699-08-02-HD&WT.mc_ev=click&WT.mc_c=${CAMPAIGN_ID}

#37: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: AT_Stalky,

Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:19 am
—
Thanx Grunt

#38: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida

Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:48 pm
—

Quote:

I love it when people from other countries bring that up as such an atrocity, even Israel. Just because it is possibly recent. They are oblivious to Turkey, recent, or refuse to go back in time to other people who did the exact same thing.

Hypocrisy.

#39: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98,

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:44 am
—
In reply to some of the inaccuracies started in this blog. Start from last til I get bored. As most of the posts are I'll informed, reactive and gullible.

Well the Invasion of Georgia came about after Sth Ossetia broke away from Georgia and declared their Independence like other Republics after the USSR fell apart. Georgia threatened then shelled and invaded Sth Ossetia. So Georgia was the aggressor. Sth Ossetia appealed to several countries and Russia and Abkhazia answered. Even the UN has since admitted they were fooled by the then President of Georgia who is now blamed by all involved as the protagonist Mikhail Saakashvilli.

Crimea fell apart through riots and desire for change. Not everyone in the Ukraine accepted the vision of the rioters to replace a democratically elected Govt with a Peoples Parliament and their change was their own Republic based on race - Russian. Funny enough lots of what they rioted for hasn't happened.( In fact today there have been more riots on the Maidan and clashes with the police. Sadly the new Democratic Govt has restricted the media ). As the Crimea was a part of Russia and only changed to the Ukraine after a Ukrainian Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev gifted it to his homeland - Ukraine in 1954. Not to forget what lead up to these riot - totally unreported by the mainstreem western media. Russian speaking persons were and still are beaten, robbed etc. Exactly what we see now in the Eastern Ukraine breakaway State. Yes Russia is backing East Ukraine - funding, supplying and training the rebels. But this is a country who doesn't trust Europe for very good reasons - post WW2. US promise of reconstruction funds never paid. Led to the Berlin Blockade etc. Much more.

All those jumping to conclusions prior to any evidence being released might want to remember that everyone is innocent til proved guilty. Especially when things like the audio turns up very quickly after MH17 crashed. Since that audio theory has been discredited by a US Computer Tech who checked the date the audio was made and was surprised to find it was made the day before the incident. The video of the mobile launcher has also since been discredited as taken in a western Ukraine town no where near the crash site. Not to mention the rubbish reporting that crash investigators were being stopped gaining access to the site. Yet an Australian couple were interviewed at the site looking for their daughter and commented that they had no problems get to the site or walking around it - poor security but they are militia. Also the BBC journaist who's witness statements about a fighter aircraft flying under MH17 have been ignored.

As for the comments on corruption. Corruption is monitored different around the world. Yes Russia is at times corrupt. But lets not forget that there are countries that have invade others on the premise of lies - looking for WMD's and Al Qaeda prior to the Illegal Invasion of Iraq - all lies. ( that's another story ) Sarin Gas use by Assad Govt - UN has since retracted it comments saying most evidence points to the Western Supplied Rebels - didn't help that the gas canisters had Jordan and Saudi markings and two separate rebels caught with the stuff. Isn't all this corruption and no one held to account.

Sadly Western embedded mainstream media has put more than a slant on each of the above incidents with no evidence other than being told by the Western Govt's - lazy reporting. Those Western Govt's - US and GB are responsible for attacking more than 80 countries since WW2. Worse Foreign Policy than USSR and China and sheds loads of other countries together - bombings, assassination, torture and torture camps, detaining innocent civilians for up to 2 yrs with terrorist, economically and politically undermining countries, aiding, training and supplying rebel groups, install more dictatorships than anyone else, spying, use of drones to kill, coverups of media and civilian deaths and the list just doesn't stop.

No country is perfect but be careful who you worship - the Germans could tell you that.

I'm bored. Goodbye.

#40: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:19 pm
—
Oh Geez.. Yet another..

My point was you can go back thousands of years.. Back to Charlemagne if you wish. Just stop there when he split his empire up between his sons and they started their warlike ways. People were being moved, forcefully about and displaced. NATIVE people, not of their own choosing.

Just because it happened several centuries ago, it's all ok now? Things change, it always has and always will. No different than minutes on the clock, get over it you tree huggers.

#41: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj,

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:50 pm
—

sod98 wrote (View Post):

In reply to some of the inaccuracies started in this blog. Start from last til I get bored. As most of the posts are I'll informed, reactive and gullible.

Yes we all heard the Iraq story a 1000 times to justify Russia aggression...we all know Iraq agenda was based on fraud and lies. Different American President & foreign policy...you're hedging...

So has Russia done anything wrong at all? You make it sound like the West and America are the bad guys here and set-up Putin in a conspiracy. Moreover we all have blood on our hands at some point in history. That again does not make it a blank check to get revenge against the "West" and their allies.

You actually proved my earlier point that pro-Russian militia (probably with help from Russian "advisors") had already been shooting down Ukrainian fighters with high altitude SA missiles. Even if a military jet was flying near the Malaysian Airlines flight path...it still doesn't justify the assault.

#42: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 6:20 pm
—
Needless to say.. This would never happen if the US had a leader with a set of wabos.

Russian Tu95 penetrate US Airspace

#43: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj,

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:10 pm
—

johnsilver wrote (View Post):

Needless to say.. This would never happen if the US had a leader with a set of wabos.

Russian Tu95 penetrate US Airspace

Johnsliver returns with his usual troll idiot comments. You always say the same stupid comments about how you think Obama doesn't have balls, is bad for the military ,etc. You and your right-wing fanatic fan base have absolutely zero to offer...so all you can do is call Obama names, talk about impeachment or a lawsuit. Keep watching your Sean Hannity bullshit about how if Mitt Romney or Sarah Palin was President, Putin wouldn't be doing this.

All you Partisan clowns do is bitch and whine about this that and the other, yet have no actual ideas of your own. Why don't you tell us again not to enlist in the military when Obama is in office, or attack the President during a time of war. It wasn't ok for John Kerry to do that during Vietnam (even though he was a combat veteran)...but it's okay for your party to do that when the shoe is on the other foot. How convenient.

You have only yourselves to blame for America looking weak when all your side does is obsess over the best way to Fuk over Obama politically instead of provide something useful for the nation. We have only ourselves to look to for such a piece of shit Government bent on vengeful dysfunctional Govt.

#44: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Schmal_Turm,

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:48 pm
—
Well dj I have never seen anyone who goes to the lengths that you do to defend anyone, especially someone like Obama who is doing his utmost to go against this nation's Constitution. Someone would have to be blind not to recognize the extremes he is going to transform this country for the worse, which is one campaign issue he is carrying out to the letter. Many times going outside the law which makes him a LAWBREAKER. And don't try calling me a Bush lover as I was never very happy with where I saw he was taking the nation either.

Jonathan Turley, a liberal law professor at George Washington University, warned yesterday that President Obama’s increasing use of executive power has placed the nation at a “constitutional tipping point.”

“The fact that I happen to think the president is right on many of these policies does not alter the fact that I believe the means he is doing [it] is wrong,” Turley said, “and that this can be a dangerous change in our system. “

I will ask you one thing though: Is there anything this fraud in the White House has done that you have ever disapproved of? I asked this of my liberal brother-in-law and all he said is Obama wasn't socialist enough.

#45: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:45 pm
—
Don't call me a troll or idotic you dolt. Plain facts you cannot stomach.

Everytime you go back and cherry pick times and events (which you have).

All it takes for ultra liberals (like obama and his kind) is to have a backbone on foreign policy. They don't have to go overboard and attack everyone (like Bush, too much, I know). Think Reagan, hell.. Think Ike. Just talk tough, not act like a damn weasel.. Carter, even Clinton that had to have a republican congress to force him to act.

That's all I am asking.

Man... I come from a family that was blue dog democrats for GENERATIONS.. The party left them (us) values changed, they took off HARD left during the 70's and really fell off the table during the 80's. There are hardly and blue dogs left now, they made up the entire party, now it's ran by (no insult intended) Pelosi's and that type.

get them back and I think US politics will change, more LBJ's.

Werf.

#46: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: mooxe,

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:54 pm
—

Quote:

Jonathan Turley, a liberal law professor at George Washington University, warned yesterday that President Obama’s increasing use of executive power has placed the nation at a “constitutional tipping point.”

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/executiveorders.asp The article is a bit behind, by about 40 executive orders for Obama.

I was reading that blog site of Jonathan Turley that led me to Snopes.com. As far as I can tell from Snopes, Wikipedia, Forbes and a slew of other sites, Obama has not used as many executive orders as many previous presidents. I am kind of surprised actually, from an outsiders point of view Congress and the Senate both seem like they can't accomplish anything. I figured Obama would of used more of his executive powers in this situation.

Anyways, this is a thread on Russia.

#47: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 5:44 am
—
This is an interesting twist on things article am about to link.

Have been reading ramblings about NATO recently and Ukraine, but never as serious as today.

Am NOT trying to get any political dudes here fired up (and wasn't earlier either), but does anyone see NATO actually invoking charter 5 think it is that guarantees coming to the defense of another member if they are attacked?

I understand Ukraine isn't a member, but the way Rasmussen is talking in this article and have seen in others (not on conservative sites) I have to wonder just how far NATO is willing to go and if they do decide to get all uppity, just who is going to provide the muscle?

It's getting dicey.

Edit:

Forgot the link...NATO

#48: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: mooxe,

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:46 am
—
NATO pledges unwavering support. Define support. Unwavering support in delivering non-lethal military support equipment (like Canada).

#49: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:16 am
—
Right Mooxe. How will it start and what will it lead to? Will it begin as humanitarian supplies, then trickle in observation flights/drones, then lend in NATO fighters/bombers?

What happens even if those humanitarian supply aircraft come under fire?

I just spend 10 minutes looking for one article was going to google, thought it was Dick Morris, but it wasn't. Then went round-n-round and can't find it.. Here is one little clip that does show one huge profound weakness and an issue I have with it and Canadians should also:

Quote:

First, the military weakness of Europe has long meant that for all practical purposes, NATO is ATO — the American Treaty Organization. The European Union may have a gross domestic product and population larger than the United States, but on average its members spend far less than half of what America budgets for defense.

US and Canada for that matter have long since pulled the majority of troops away from Europe. Sure, bases are there, but it's a whole different ball game than it was pre Gorby.

Carrier force has been decimated. Yes.. A handful of new ones (super carriers) have been added, but the old stalwarts from 'Nam and slightly before have been moth balled and scrapped by the dozen literally. Forrestal, Lady lex Coral Sea, etc.. the last 20y.

Lets hope this Ukraine situation can be resolved diplomatically. I see no need for a military (NATO) force being involved, even if they are there only in a supposed humanitarian way, unless all members are prepared to pay the piper if the involvement goes sideways.

Edit:

Forgot article link again that the quote came from:

Nato story

#50: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:24 am
—

mooxe wrote (View Post):

As far as I can tell from Snopes, Wikipedia, Forbes and a slew of other sites, Obama has not used as many executive orders as many previous presidents.

Such a compelling argument!

Executive Order #1: Transgenders may now use the Mens and Womens restrooms in the Capital Buildings, White House, and at the Washington Monument.

Executive Order #2: TSA shall and immediately establish security checkpoints at every United States Post Office in America.

#51: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98,

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:02 pm
—
DJ said -

Yes we all heard the Iraq story a 1000 times to justify Russia aggression...we all know Iraq agenda was based on fraud and lies. Different American President & foreign policy...you're hedging...

So has Russia done anything wrong at all? You make it sound like the West and America are the bad guys here and set-up Putin in a conspiracy. Moreover we all have blood on our hands at some point in history. That again does not make it a blank check to get revenge against the "West" and their allies.

The Iraqi story has nothing to do with the supposed Russian aggression to justify anything. It paints a picture to those who aren't blinded by patriotism or apathy. If Russia was such an aggressor then since WW2 just compare the US and Russia / USSR aggressor records. Yes the USA by it's own definition fits the description of a terrorist state. The tell us in your wisdom why the likes for the US and GB feel that liberating countries by killing 114,000 civilians, destroying a countries infrastructure are ok. It doesn't matter what US President is in Office the Foreign policy is the same. Wakey , wakey, it hasn't changed since Vietnam. Then there is the little matter of why the West can do these things with no repercussions. Serbs leaders are tried and some executed and Saddam executed. Is this that thing called Democracy but should be spelt hypocrisy. we all use to laugh at USSR and China with their over the top spying on the general public - now common practice in the West. Nothing justifies the downing of MH17 but only fools jump before any evidence or findings released - DJ that fits you.

As I said Russia isn't perfect but that Foreign Policy records of both countries are light years apart to anyone except those who are sado pologistic, gullible, naive and weak minded. You have proved that point for me thanks again.

What revenge against the West are you talking about. Your whole statements does read like a kids jumble of excuses lacking facts, reason or common sense. I do suggest next time to do a little research so you don't embarrass yourself further with your paranoid rants. Not to mention your generalisations that I lend credence to your statement over Russia assisting the downing of MH17. If you read that into anything seriously seek help - you are deluded. Sorry kid if the facts hurt your view of Hollywood democracy - have a drink of warm milk to settle your frayed nerves.

#52: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj,

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 4:36 pm
—
Trainwreck...laughable comments. John and Schmal FoxNews clones that get all their new info from Partisan right-wing slanted sources. Schmal you in own your own words admitted to watching FoxNews. If I watched FoxNews, I would be indoctrinated into thinking Obama was "lawless" or conspiring to cover-up Bengazhi. How is the lawsuit working out or that $30 million investigation using my tax $ to try to find some dirt on Benghazi? I love how John acts innocent and pretends he never said Obama doesn't have balls...then spin it around and say I'm some political dude when you're the one that instigated.

Mooxe said it best...the Current American President has fewer executive orders compared to other Presidents. Not only that you're conveniently skipping the little part about the Scorch Earth political tactics of the opposition party. They sabotage every thing he does, never even wants to negotiate like any other normal Govt would do. Only the FoxNews clones would take a thread on Russia to spin it around on attack on Obama. Mitch McConnell openly admitted on video that is the #1 agenda of the party is to oppose Obama for everything he tries to do.

As far as Sod's comments are concerned...again way off topic. Serbia? They were caught committing genocide, plain and simple...by the Hague, NOT by Yankee court of law. Again Iraq was already addressed and yes there is huge a difference with Presidents and their policies, you're wrong. If Mitt Romney or Sarah Palin were President they would have Nuked Russia by now. Nice try Sod, you ignored my question about Russia not doing anything wrong and said the "policy" isn't perfect? Really? That was a nice bait and switch to just attack me instead of actually answering my question.

#53: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 4:56 pm
—

mooxe wrote (View Post):

from an outsiders point of view Congress and the Senate both seem like they can't accomplish anything. I figured Obama would of used more of his executive powers in this situation. Anyways, this is a thread on Russia.

Link

#54: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 5:44 pm
—

Quote:

If Mitt Romney or Sarah Palin were President they would have Nuked Russia by now.

Lets try to keep it kind of real at least DJ.

I do have a terrible prediction however, just one of those horrible, off the walll things that one hopes never happens, but we all know is going to one day. The next nuke attack will be a terrorist hit and it will be against the Israelis, probably from Hezbollah on another jab in the dark. I also think the response will bring a terrible response from Israel, not Nuclear, but another terrible weapon in Napalm that could set the Middle East abalze in war.

That thought (terrible, I know) has gone through my head since the Shah of Iran was deposed and it's going to happen one day is my terrible gut feeling.

Apologies for going off topic guys.

#55: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima,

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 5:54 pm
—
So here I am back again from my trip to the Russian Far East and then Iceland Smile

.

Troger,

Troger wrote (View Post):

Dima wrote (View Post):

check how and why the South Ossetia and Abkhazia got independent from Georgia and why Russia had a Peace keeping unit there.

Quote:

Was the brutal subjugation of American Indians taught to you in school?
We conquered Crimea in XVIII century - Osman Empire refused their rights on Crimea after loss in 1774 year war. The remaining Tatars were allowed to leave in Crimea. So?
Why do you bring up the plight of the American Indians? I asked you a serious question, I wasn't being sarcastic. But yes, they teach the history of how early Americans destroyed the Indian way of life, it's not hidden or distorted. And there are some Americans who probably could care less about what happened (the grunts, as you would call them), but most sensible people recognize that it was an atrocity.

I thought you were talking about XVIII century and the massacre we did there...that's why made an anology with Indians.

Quote:

I'm wondering if your history books talk about the more recent treatment of Tartars by the communists. I read and heard so many comments that made it seem like some Russians regarded Crimea as "always" a part of Russia, which is nonsense.

yes, nothing bad in it, they colloborated with the Germans in a very harsh way during the occupation of Crimea and in a whole got what they deserved.
still, you can recall the internment of Japanese in the USA during the war - or is it really different to you? :)

Quote:

And I actually think the annexation of Crimea by Russia is a good thing. The majority of people there are Russian now, so it seems fit for it to be a part of Russia. And, the big plus for the Ukraine is the ~2million less voters who normally vote for the Party of Regions and the communists.

yeah, but it is in so poor condition that Russia has to invest huge amounts to just get it to average Russian standards. F.e. my region, Kaliningrad, will get 10 times less till 2020 from the Federal budget because of Crimea.

Quote:

Dima wrote (View Post):

the militia says they can't get modern ATGM from Russia. Whom should we believe you or them?

Come on Dima, it's a fact that Russia is supplying arms to the rebels. And, why wouldn't Russia arm them? It makes sense for them to support ethnic Russians.

no doubt about small arms, ammo and maybe even some RPGs but for now no evidence of any heavy weapon supplied to them from Russia.

#56: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima,

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:01 pm
—

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Dima wrote (View Post):

Don't you think that having almost 20% less corruption in 3 years is a good results?

No, it doesn’t say Russia has 20 % less corruption. Where can you see that?

Again:

Quote:

is not it a 20% difference (+/-) between place 154 (2010) and 127 (2013)?

Quote:

But the question is… As Putin came to power in 1999, now its 15 years later… The country he rules over is ranked at 35 from the bottom, or 48 at the bottom as thee worst corrupt countries in the world…

but does Russia progress in fighting corruption according to Transparency International in last year? It looks like that for me.

Quote:

And you think Putin is doing fine after 15 years in power?

show me where did I tell that Putin is/was doing fine?

Quote:

Is that all it takes to make Russians happy?

we are happy to see progress Wink

#57: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima,

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:03 pm
—

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Dima wrote (View Post):

{...] stats showing growth for Russia in last years? and again, that's not because of great Putin but because of the good prices for natural resources.

So you do agree afterall.. Kaputin. Very Happy

you are arguing with yourself about Putin not me Wink

#58: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima,

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:15 pm
—

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

sorry to disappoint you but there was Jeltsin and Gorbachev Russia 22 years ago Wink

. so whom to blame?
And here we have the usual blame game of the Russian media/politicians.
If the car doesn’t start in the morning, the average Russian say “its that dammed Jeltsins fault”.. And now if more than half of Africans countries move ahead Russia in the desirable indexes Russians collectively say, “its that dammed …. fault.”.
Remember, not to hold kaputin accountable, he’s only been in power for 15 years…
We heard it a million times, “Its all Jeltsin’s fault and/or Gorbatjev’s fault.”
Is that really so, is it true or is it just a myth, or is the truth some ware in-between?

sometimes it seems to me that you are totally drunk posting these posts Wink

.
you told:

Quote:

Putin Russia had 0 [zero] life expectancy increase in 22 years.

I replied:

Quote:

sorry to disappoint you but there was Eltsin and Gorbachev Russia 22 years ago Wink. so whom to blame?

so look at this chart again:
http://www.indexmundi.com/facts/indicators/SP.DYN.LE00.IN/compare?country=iq#country=ru
and you could see that life expectancy dropped to 65 years by the year 2000.
so obviously Russia made it well to increase it to 69 in 13 years since 2000. SEE?

Quote:

I have a theory, that Jeltsin did both good and bad. Lets see.. As we have debated before, childbirth and that translates to child mortality.. Its rather important indicators as they are not only tragic but also affect the life expectancy. They show how well the health care in a country works, as well as how the state manage to take care of the less fortunate giving everyone a “equal” start in life...
I attach a image of child mortality, and marks the Jeltsin and kaputin era on it.. WHO data.
Now, how about that?

Aaahh, do not you see that that graph 5.9 you attached IS showing that a number of still-birth and death of children is decreasing every year in Russia?! (tip: the less is better here Wink

)

#59: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima,

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:35 pm
—

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Dima mate your funny.

I was funny in Iceland last Sunday after 1l of whiskey Very Happy

Quote:

You have not heard of Aleksandr Gelyevich Dugin::
wow never heard about that guy Smile

looks like a crazy mean bastard

yes, I've never heared about him.
but I've called my friend who is in politics and in charge of the office of Transparency International in Kaliningrad and he told me that he indeed crazy and is an ideologist of Putin, not the UR party though.
always good to know something new Smile

Quote:

And then you point me to this book, to educate me:
mate, the problem was not in war we had but in lost connections in ex-republics..I suggest you to read this book to understand the USSR economics and industry - http://www.amazon.com/Collapse-Empire-Lessons-Modern-Russia/dp/0815731140
And when I reading the book, I fined that the author startes the book with qoutes of Dugin, see the first attachment named Dugin.gif.

good, don't remember he was mentioned there.
did it help you to understand more about USSR? Wink

Quote:

Dima mate, I just cant help it, but it feels just a tiny little bit like you have not read the book at all.
Because the book contradicts most you argued here. I also found this:
(qouts are in the images attached)
1. The author believes that Gorbatjev and the commy should have done what Jeltsin did, liberal economy..
2. The author thinks Russian is playing a blame game, tin foils en masse.. (green aria)
3. (In the first part of yellow, he talks about Jeltsin era) Jeltsin created an economic system that was chock resistant, imperfekt but yet... Then, came the worrying signes... Putin started to reverse things…
4. The free media was destroyed in the early 2000. (blue)
5. He also suggests that the “autonomy” of the regions is just a chasm.
6. The author argues that Russia is lagging behind 50 years, compared with the developed world. . (red)
Attached a image with the qouts..

show me where did I post anything really contradicting these points Wink

.
btw Gaidar was a first prime-minister in Russia and idelogist of all that chock therapy economy that actually led to the huge drop of life level by the year 2000. The grunts still hate him very much Smile

.

Last edited by Dima on Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

#60: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima,

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:38 pm
—

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

As its important to know our future masters..

Let me present our dear Mr: Vladimir Zjirinovskij

Vladimir Zjirinovskij twice vice chairman of the Russian Duma.
He’s a colonel in the Russian army.
Founder and leader of Liberal Democrat Party of Russia. (na, hes not a democrat)

This guys agenda is to retake the former Russian empire borders, and beyond. That includes Finland, Baltics, Poland, Georgia and Ukraine etc etc and even Alaska, even India!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Zhirinovsky

I don’t really like Videos, but take a look at this guy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JnToiuWL2A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbifHevHekE

In any civilized country one such performance is enough…

Theres more vids...

You think he’s a clown..? Your wrong. Within some years, this guy may well be the person who has the keys to half the worlds nukes.

Russians love this man, election result:
year; type of election; result
1991 presidential elections – 8%
1993 Duma elections – 23%
1995 Duma elections – 11%
1996 presidential elections – 6%
1999 Duma elections – 5.98% (it contested them as the 'Zhirinovsky Bloc')
2000 presidential elections – 2.7%
2003 Duma elections – 12%
2007 Duma elections – 8.8%
2008 presidential election – 9.35% [17]
2011 Duma elections – 12.5%
2012 presidential election – 6.2%

just to open you eyes - LDPR/Zhirinovsky is a Kremlin project of 90s to take Empire dreaming electorate from the KPR (commies).

#61: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima,

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:42 pm
—

AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

The “reasons” why Russia is ranked so poor at 124 in the world:

Dima wrote (View Post):

[apart from Russia] has any of these countries been pillaged for 10 years?

Yes, I have a candidate that "matches" that. Germany after WW2… Germany was bombed into crap up to 1945, and what remained of its industry was pillaged and stolen.

Dima wrote (View Post):

the problem [for Russia] was not in war we had but in lost connections in ex-republics..

Yes, I also have a candidate to match that. I suggest we look at Germany after ww2… :

Large arias was taken by the allies, see map. What remained of Germany was divided in 4 zones after WW2. Then they formed 2 states, one capitalistic and one Soviet satellite. Talking about lost connections, Germany was divided by the “iron curtain”, … And 11 [eleven] million Germans was taken as POW’s or slave labours. Many of them did not return to Germany until Stalin died.

So there you have the comparison, the candidate is west Germany after WW2…
From the end of WW2 in 1945 up to 1960, is 15 years. In year 1960 Germany had a life expectancy of 69,5 years. This made Germany rank at the top in the world, at place 18 .

Today , Putins has been in power for 15 years and Russia has a life expectancy of 69 years. This makes Russia rank 124 in the world among the worst preforming countries… After 15 years.....

So if we compare: in the year 1960 Germany = 69,5 thus outperformed Supa KaPutins Russias in 2012 at 69 years….
Now, I argues that the reason why kaPutin has taken control over the media, is because Russian's would be upset if they know how bad Russia is in a comparison..
Oh , i forgot to mention: Today, (2012) Germany has a life expectancy of 81 years..

guess if Russia in 90s got something like Germany by Marshall's plan aid in 50s it could develop much better Sad

.
but of course Germany even in 1945 had way more developed industry than USSR in 1945...

#62: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:58 pm
—

mooxe wrote (View Post):

Anyways, this is a thread on Russia.

Is it? Seems to me its a thread set up to bash Russia. In the beginning anyway. But also, to mention countries that the posters thought were better than Russia. So, I thought if fair to mention countries that I think aren't as good as Russia, like Sweden. But, if I critisize Sweden you put the post in Train Wrecks. Razz

The following countries were mentioned on the first page of the thread alone (not counting any country mentioned in a linked article).

Russia, Ukraine, United States, Great Britain, China, Iceland, Faroe Islands, Nambia, Guinea, Crimea (once a country), Sweden, Pakistan, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Turkey, Georgia, Bulgaria, India, Belarus, Poland, Lithuania, Indonesia, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbecistan, Latvia, Cuba, Moldavia, Azerbaijan, Morocco, Philippines, Fiji, Egypt, Algeria, Iran, Albania, Lebanon, Armenia, Georgia, Jordan, Sri Lanka, Syria, and Vietnam.

#63: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Stwa,

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 7:30 pm
—

Dima wrote (View Post):

guess if Russia in 90s got something like Germany by Marshall's plan aid in 50s it could develop much better Sad

.
but of course Germany even in 1945 had way more developed industry than USSR in 1945...

Ya, no doubt. Exclamation

I supplied a nice vid on the Marhsall Plan, the starvation in Western Europe, and the tuberculosis vaccinations et al, but mooxe sent it to Train Wrecks. The posters were falsely making the assertion that Germany had achieved an 69.5 year life expectancy by 1960 without assistance.

In the years of the Marshall Plan, the vid stated Germany's Gross Domestic Production rose by 32%.

#64: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima,

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 7:40 pm
—

Quote:

well, it's a fact that in the first year of the aid - 1948 - the Germany received USD 2,4bn (something like USD 24bn in 2013 prices) - pretty same as the UK and France altogether same year.

#65: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98,

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:21 am
—
DJ said -

As far as Sod's comments are concerned...again way off topic. Serbia? They were caught committing genocide, plain and simple...by the Hague, NOT by Yankee court of law. Again Iraq was already addressed and yes there is huge a difference with Presidents and their policies, you're wrong. If Mitt Romney or Sarah Palin were President they would have Nuked Russia by now. Nice try Sod, you ignored my question about Russia not doing anything wrong and said the "policy" isn't perfect? Really? That was a nice bait and switch to just attack me instead of actually answering my question.[/quote]

Over Serbia - That was my point if your comprehension was up to it. USA and Allies lied to invaded Iraq. Resulting in 114,000 dead civilians since the illegal invasion - clearly a Crime against Humanity. These deaths far exceed the deaths committed by Serbia yet no accountability.

US Presidents - Little to no change from Bush to Obama - Gitmo still exists, Iraq still has US influence, advisers and now fighter cover. USA foreign policy is still the same as policy is dictated to by big business. Today's issue with Russia is that it presents a active opposition to US mainly open aggression - Arab Spring, Syria, Sth Ossetia and Ukraine among others.

Then your totally over the top comments that Romney and Palin would have nuked Russia just shows just out of touch with reality you are. Also tell me what Russia has done wrong other then what I have already said - they are currently backing the rebels in East Ukraine. Russia was always going to protect it's border especially after many broken agreements by the West - Nuke and Border agreements ( glasnost / perestroika ). Then advise why the US have a vested interest in the Ukraine, it's not a US border just yet ( Empire USA ) Enlighten us with your over the top comments and paranoid factless statements - we all like a laugh.

Then you can advise me if you have compared Russia / USSR foreign policy record to that of the USA since WW2. How do they compare ? Instead of pretending to defend the indefensible try reason, facts and common sense that you previously have lacked. Time to come out of your 60's bunker and see the day for what it is.

Last edited by sod98 on Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:09 am; edited 3 times in total

#66: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Troger, Location: L4W's place, Australia

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:19 am
—
CHOOO CHOOOOOO ... I hear the train coming!

#67: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima,

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:02 am
—

dj wrote (View Post):

If Mitt Romney or Sarah Palin were President they would have Nuked Russia by now..

haha, really? they hate the US population so much?

btw check the German "Iron Sky" movie where Sarah Palin is shown Wink

#68: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98,

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:09 am
—
Troger said -

False. Russian separatists instigated a fight ( Georgia ), just like they have done in eastern Ukraine.

You are wrong. Even Georgia today admits Mikheil Saakashvili ( former Georgian President ) did start the conflict and even rallied the local media with disinformation. UN have also changed their stance. Up date yourself as you are years behind.

Yes you are right in East Ukraine as the rebels are both Russian ethnicity and they did start their own way to their own state. Really no different to when the democratically elected Govt of Ukraine was ousted in the coup. Those rioters wanted something different. as do these - their own state.

#69: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj,

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 4:18 pm
—

johnsilver wrote (View Post):

Quote:

If Mitt Romney or Sarah Palin were President they would have Nuked Russia by now.

Why do you think the Shah was overthrown by his own people?

Real:

Sarah Palin has offered unsolicited advice to US President Barack Obama on containing Russian aggression, saying ''the only thing that stops a bad guy with a nuke is a good guy with a nuke''. Sarah Palin, Dick Cheney, Mitt Romney and all your other Fox & Friends can't help themselves to promote new arms race against Russia and use this as another 9/11 type rouse to drum up the War Hawks.

As far as the accusations of Iraq are concerned and how that compared to Serbia...if it was up to me, I would throw Dick Cheney, Wolfowitz and their gang in jail for the rest of their lives and seize Cheney's huge fortune of cash and give that to the many thousands of U.S. veterans that are severely wounded and the Iraqi people. Especially since Dick Cheney now receives a huge retirement from Halliburton...banana republics don't have corruption and conflicts of interest this bad.

#70: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:14 pm
—
DJ, You are playing with an empty hand and using a terrible bluff there with your Shah play there dude...

Carter himself weakened the Shah. refused to come to his aide. He was all for his the "spiritualists" and the fall of the Shah. I know what was going on there, or fairly well and am fairly well in tune with the debacle he caused with his self inflicted hostage situation.. I was in the USN at the time, a Radioman on board the USS Engage (MSO 433). at that time, it was fairly simple to see incoming from many ships, bases, coms not even those not intended. some of us did while on duty over the teletype.

#71: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Stwa,

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:21 am
—

mooxe wrote (View Post):

NATO pledges unwavering support. Define support. Unwavering support in delivering non-lethal military support equipment (like Canada).

So does NATO also mean USA? It must be nice to be able to spew pure propaganda and not have to worry about having your posts end up in Train Wrecks.

Link

#72: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Troger, Location: L4W's place, Australia

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:50 am
—
Coming to a forum near you:

http://youtu.be/CussBbmJHzI

http://www.buzzfeed.com/maxseddon/documents-show-how-russias-troll-army-hit-america

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2014/06/04/hunting-for-paid-russian-trolls-in-the-washington-post-comments-section/

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/10/russias-online-comment-propaganda-army/280432/

Last edited by Troger on Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:19 am; edited 5 times in total

#73: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:16 am
—

Quote:

I would throw Dick Cheney, Wolfowitz and their gang in jail for the rest of their lives and seize Cheney's huge fortune of cash and give that to the many thousands of U.S. veterans that are severely wounded and the Iraqi people. Especially since Dick Cheney now receives a huge retirement from Halliburton...banana republics don't have corruption and conflicts of interest this bad.

I take it that's more socialist spread the wealth tactics? Why stop there with him. Why not question "your" party on Sorors's dumping of his banking stocks recently.

Then.. There is nothing against that at all is there in a capitalist society is there? Not unless more socialist thinkers, such as yourself get elected and I doubt it will happen in my lifetime.

#74: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Stwa,

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:18 am
—
Very good Troger,

But when working with vids and articles, just try to find one good example. Try to keep the vids as short as possible. There is usually a plethora of them to choose from.

Oh, and use the "youtube" link method, if you are so inclined. It will show a caption and title for the vid, which helps forumites to decide if they want to link to it and watch.

#75: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Stwa,

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:35 am
—

mooxe wrote (View Post):

Anyways, this is a thread on Russia.

Is it? Seems to me it is a NATO propaganda party. So, is Sweden a NATO member. I dunno? Laughing

But Sweden was mentioned by the posters back on page 1, when "Life Expectancy" stats where being bandied about.

Also, the rapes in Sweden were mentioned on page 1 as well. So I would like to repsond to those posts, if you and the CCS shadow government don't mind.

WARNING this video is presented by several US radio commentators with a combined IQ of about 120 (just a guess).

Link

#76: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Troger, Location: L4W's place, Australia

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:56 am
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Stwa, I heard Russia is handing out 3-year residency permits with the option of citizenship, what ya waiting for!?

#77: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Stwa,

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:18 am
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Troger wrote (View Post):

Stwa, I heard Russia is handing out 3-year residency permits with the option of citizenship, what ya waiting for!?

No thanks, I live in Arizona. It's smaller and has fewer people than Sweden or Russia. I believe there is a better Quality of Life in Arizona. Quality of Life statistics were quoted on page 1. So, if the CCS shadow gov wouldn't mind. I would like to express the opinion that perhaps Arizona should be in the top ten, replacing Sweden or Norway or Denmark or ...

In another decade or so, Arizona might be administered by Mexico. So, we didn't cross the border. The border crossed us. So, what are YOU waiting for.

Link

Last edited by Stwa on Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:42 am; edited 1 time in total

#78: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:31 am
—

Quote:

No thanks, I live in Arizona. It's smaller and has fewer people than Sweden or Russia. Most of the people here believe that in another decade or so, Arizona will be administered by Mexico.

A crying shame states didn't have the legal right to form armed bands to stop any type of invasions. I know STWA the people of AZ already have some type of civil force at the border, but they are not really allowed to do anything, same with those groups at Texas. I imagine if those groups were allowed in any situations to use any force, including deadly force those armed groups would slow the deluge of illegals to a drip.

The citizen groups would increase in number, even volunteers. Joe Aparo has a huge amount of volunteers as it is. it's not hard to find them when the cause is a just one.

#79: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Stwa,

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:55 am
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Perhaps,

Mexico, is a very wealthy country. It's economy might be in the top ten. I dunno?

Mexico and Arizona were not mentioned on page 1 of the thread. So I wonder it this post will be sent to Train Wrecks. Razz

Mexico is just exporting their poor to North America. Same as the Europeans did. This immigration cannot be stopped by anyone, let alone Americans who usually stand for nothing (as you can tell from this thread alone).

#80: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:16 am
—

Quote:

STWA,

Think mentioned this here before, that am a native of Florida, as of when it was a beautiful state, as in from the keys to the panhandle. The changes all began when the "invasion" during the mid-late 70's of 10's of thousands of illegal immigrants from haiti, dominican republic and originally.. The cubans who were welcomed, then after the state became flooded, were being shoved away to camps. The "wet foot-dry foot" policy.

It was a double whammy. Coast guard ships wer nearly everywhere for a dozen years, patrolling all along south Florida. I spent my final USN years in the reserves, doing weekend (once a month) going out on another old rickety minesweeper, patrolling and picking up refugees, then taking them to a detention camp so they couldn't land in Florida.

Arizona and Texas are the next battleground state. I have seen how beautiful AZ is, like mentioned to you here when we visited several years back. Florida's beauty is now gone.. Destroyed. I'd hate to see the same thing happen to AZ and Texas.

#81: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Stwa,

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:53 am
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Hey,

You might be interested to know, that there may not be enough water in AZ or some of the surrounding states for "growth". If the drought continues, AZ may go the way of the Anastasi.

And California, Arizona, and Nevada will continue to bash each other for their share of the Colorado River water.

You can say what you like about immigration, but one thing is for certain. It is NEVER going to stop until the US gets changed out with a new entity. Like new Constitution, new states, new fed, new citizens, etc...

BTW, I was born in El Paso-Texas, my wife comes from McAllen-Texas, my mother was born in Austin-Texas, and her father immigrated to Mexico. My uncles used to speak Spanish and English, but before they died, they spoke Spanish only.

There are perhaps 1 million Mexicans that cross over every year, and this rate will be sustained until doomsday. Year after year. They will no longer stop in California and Arizona because there is no more water there. The US does not export poor people. They just put them on welfare.

Arizona has no Navy, no Air Force, no Army, no banks, and no money. If Mexico wanted to take Arizona by force (they don't need too), the US Federal government would NOT stop them.

#82: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:00 pm
—

Quote:

BTW, I was born in El Paso-Texas, my wife comes from McAllen-Texas, my mother was born in Austin-Texas, and her father immigrated to Mexico. My uncles used to speak Spanish and English, but before they died, they spoke Spanish only.

There are perhaps 1 million Mexicans that cross over every year, and this rate will be sustained until doomsday. Year after year. They will no longer stop in California and Arizona because there is no more water there. The US does not export poor people. They just put them on welfare.

Hey STWA,

Thought we had this chat before, but maybe not? My wife is 1/2 Cherokee and her dad was a true, dye in the wool believer in everything to them. I used to listen to all of his stories when he was alive. Customs, the beliefs, just about everything.

Every state has the power to mobilize it's National Guard. Laws changed over enforcement also of the border, it's just an issue of will. Border states, the one who have to suffer the consequences of being overun are the ones who need to bundle together. It is comical in a way to see states like California having to suffer for a change, one of the states that always proclaims everything liberal.. Open border this, open border that getting dumped with load after load of the latest illegals and now having protesters trying to block them. It's funny when the shoe is on the other foot on horrid issues like this.

California and Northeast states should be the target states for all these latest illegals until tough immigration laws can be enacted. I'd 100% guarantee the border is tightened then.

Not so sure that just immediate water shortage will do the trick STWA. I've been reading about the terrible water shortage yourself and the west is suffering also and that new "straw" they are digging out to feed people. Desalination, an expensive, but developing way to quench people's thirst is probably going to be the only way to get it done and have myself thought of as another way to cease and desist the army of illegals entering, a tactic. Israel uses desalination for it's people, without it? They would perish. Leaders in the world in that field and a technology that they could help the US in.

#83: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Stwa,

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:49 pm
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Yes, I remember our chat back in the Ukraine thread. I suggested Salt River Res by Talking Stick. I still live near there, and I purchased the house we had been renting. It is shown on the map I uploaded back then. Me thinks prop values will go down over time here, if water dries up. So, the Anglos can flee to where ... Nebraska? Laughing

I had a roofing contracter out just last week, and he did not speak English, but we figured it all out anyway. He understood how to rip me off, without having to even communicate in my own language. Laughing

So ... the National Guard. They mostly got taken away for the war in Iraq. And what is Texas paying for 1,000 soldiers? 12 million dollars a month. Maybe you and I don't understand Anglos. The states will fleece their own citizens to pay for "the Guard" who will never "Guard" a damn thing, much less the border. Now that sounds like the America I know.

And what will the "Guard" do on the border. Play with their drones? The kids coming from Central America are turning themselves in to the first Authorities they encounter. So the "Guard" will jump up and down and go "BOO!". What, they are gonna shoot em? Are you crazy? They are not gonna shoot anybody.

The Border Patrol runs uncontitutional checkpoints now. They are there to catch the more stoopid drug dealers. They have nothing to do with border security. It is a big cash cow for the feds.

#84: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:41 pm
—

Quote:

And what will the "Guard" do on the border. Play with their drones? The kids coming from Central America are turning themselves in to the first Authorities they encounter. So the "Guard" will jump up and down and go "BOO!". What, they are gonna shoot em? Are you crazy? They are not gonna shoot anybody.

The Border Patrol runs uncontitutional checkpoints now. They are there to catch the more stoopid drug dealers. They have nothing to do with border security. It is a big cash cow for the feds.

Think I've dragged this one too far off topic and killed our conversation here on the "Russia" topic STWA, though remember I mentioned all the "volunteer" deputeess Aparo has several posts back for guarding his county, who could be mobilized (others of course) along the border, given full power to use force and Aparo's tent city style detention city used to hold all immigrants in.

It might be a solution for states where illegals enter to be held there, under there authority. What it would do short term is force them to enter states with lax (liberal) detention and entry procedures, but after they began to get over ran, such as California is now? They themselves would tighten up border and I imagine even make some other standards a little less 'comfy". like living standards, forcing them to live in tents, like Aparo does some of his minimum security prisoners in old army tents.

It's no different than what the US did with it's "wet foot-dry foot" policy. When boat people refugee immigrants were picked up attempting to get to Florida illegally, they lived in open air tents and many were denied entry every year. It's not like there isn't some sort of policy already on the books for this that can be altered to deny entry.

All that is needed is the will.

#85: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Stwa,

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:33 pm
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But, I don't want anyone to use force on these people, and I believe no one will either. They are going to keep coming across for years to come, and that is just the way it is. Over time, maybe the US will be a Latin country, and everthing will be flipped to Spanish. Alot of the Latino politicians are excited about this prospect.

Nice talking to you though. See ya around.

#86: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj,

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:56 pm
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johnsilver wrote (View Post):

DJ, You are playing with an empty hand and using a terrible bluff there with your Shah play there dude...

Carter himself weakened the Shah. refused to come to his aide. He was all for his the "spiritualists" and the fall of the Shah. I know what was going on there, or fairly well and am fairly well in tune with the debacle he caused with his self inflicted hostage situation.. I was in the USN at the time, a Radioman on board the USS Engage (MSO 433). at that time, it was fairly simple to see incoming from many ships, bases, coms not even those not intended. some of us did while on duty over the teletype.

Straight from the Sean Hannity script. So that's great you served in Navy during that era...does that make you an expert on the policy though? Do you not remember WE were the ones the propped-up the Shah as a puppet leader? And actually it was recently confirmed what was suspected all along that America and England actually planted the Shah in the first place. There was a popularly elected Socialist whom was elected. Then we along with the British staged a Coup to overthrow him and that 's how the Shah rose to power. Of course they would NEVER dare say that in the Conservative media would they.

As far as your accusations re: my comments on Dick Cheney and Iraq...yet again another predictable comment that oh....you must be a socialist to spread the wealth to make such a comment. Incredibly ignorant statement - it was to punish Cheney and his entire estate because he personally is the one that advocated fraudulent case for war with Iraq. By the way, he did this immediately after taking office, long before the 9/11 attacks. There again they would never dare say that with Roger Ailes editing all the FoxNews coverage. Nixon would be proud of him.

#87: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:18 am
—

Quote:

Straight from the Sean Hannity script. So that's great you served in Navy during that era...does that make you an expert on the policy though

You don't get it and never will get it about Carter and his entire middle east caused fiasco that the entire world is still paying for do you DJ? How can liberals cover their eyes, so willfully to blind ignorance so many years later and even worse, some even blame it on others?

My post was a clue that was reading incoming teletypes on messages coming in and out of ships and bases. I even posted it wasn't hard back then, which it was not. When ships were in port (ours was most of the time) we used teletypes for communication messages all the time. Incoming messages we were supposed to ignore if not addressed to your specific ship, group, but during that time, or later on during Reagan's hammering of Libya (on another ship then) I know of several RM's who would would check messages for any bit of information.

That doesn't mean security wasn't tight, it was for making sure nothing was to be allowed OUT of the radio shack, a digital wristwatch worn (which could actually be used to broadcast small distances they told us, say to the dock). But will say we read messages with more information regarding the middle east than I remembered reading about.

Only when the actual coms officer had to bring in his cyper card and do a manual cyper was something really important coming in for us and those were few and far between. We would see important information come in classified as *TS* still that didn't require using the Cypher. 35+ years ago, but still.

Just blindly throwing "hannity" and "fox news" at others you disagree with got old months ago DJ. Facts and my USN background of that period are my reply.

#88: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: pvt_Grunt, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:28 pm
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AT_Stalky wrote (View Post):

Russia - Whats goin on..

Whats going on in Russia, and why is all this happening now?

Hey American brothers, this is the topic.

I do understand that rule #1 of forums is to ALWAYS see EVERY world topic EXCLUSIVELY through the lens of domestic US politics, but this has gone on too long.

It is like listening to a Serbian and a Croatian argue about who has the right to have the least number of vowels in their name.

You guys all look the same to us, you sound the same to us, you all have the same politics give or take a few details. AZ, NH, VI, FL - they're all the same to us (except Oregon, they really ARE different)

STALKY - bring us back to Russia. Twisted Evil

#89: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Stwa,

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:36 pm
—
Hey Grunt, feel free to jump in any time. Posting that the thread is off topic (at least the way you did it) ... is also off topic, right? Wink

Now any conversation on forum is essentially just like a conversation in the break area of your work. Your discussions naturally flow into other topics. -mooxe

The following countries were mentioned on the first page of the thread alone (not counting any country mentioned in a linked article).

#90: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: mooxe,

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:07 pm
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I may not be from France, Luxembourg, Texas or Australia but that doesn't stop me from exercising moderation akin to the likes of North Korea or Myanmar. Now when a topic of this subject is created and subsequently combined with our regular posters I am inclined to think that it will derail eventually. We have had many real train derailments in Canada recently, but that's another subject. Lets not Bangladesh this thread anymore, this thread israel conversation and should be taken syrias.

#91: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:24 pm
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Thanks Mooxe. Onward to Moscow it is.

#92: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: jakebullet70, Location: Washington State / Kherson Ukraine

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:20 pm
—

Dima wrote (View Post):

dj wrote (View Post):

If Mitt Romney or Sarah Palin were President they would have Nuked Russia by now..

haha, really? they hate the US population so much?

btw check the German "Iron Sky" movie where Sarah Palin is shown Wink

Great movie!!!

#93: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Stwa,

Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:42 am
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I may not be from France, Luxembourg, Texas or Australia but that doesn't stop me from exercising moderation akin to the likes of North Korea or Myanmar. Now when a topic of this subject is created and subsequently combined with our regular posters I am inclined to think that it will derail eventually. We have had many real train derailments in Canada recently, but that's another subject. Lets not Bangladesh this thread anymore, this thread israel conversation and should be taken syrias. -mooxe

Translation: We are going to use this thread to relentlessly bash Russia with NATO propaganda or we are not going to use this thread at all.

On page 1 and 2 of the thread, the Original Poster attempted to offer various statistics, charts, and maps to discredit Russia and its people. It seemed to me that some of the "statisitcs" used small windows of time from which to draw its observable events, perhaps a single year or decade?

Most of these "stats" cited published reports measureing "Life Expectancy" and "Quality of Life". Trend analysis was offered again over small periods of time, while the poster cherry picked the start and end times of the sample of events, in order to produce the statistic that was more favoralbe to his argument. Stock market analysts use this kind of pure BS to get you to buy stocks all the time.

And what was the argument: RUSSIA SUCKS. That was the argument. Not very REAL and not very SERIOUS either.

I would like to offer the follwoing video, that illustrates "Life Expectancy" and "Average Personal Income" (Quality of Life?) over the last 200 years for 200 countries. I think forumites will get a better perspective, and then they can return to bashing Russia with NATO propaganda if they so choose.

Link

#94: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida

Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:29 am
—

Quote:

Translation: We are going to use this thread to relentlessly bash Russia with NATO propaganda or we are not going to use this thread at all.

What?!? Some dude on TV here has been giving speech after speech the last 6y that the cold war is over and there is nothing to Putin having any Imperialistic thoughts of a new Russian empire!

Are you saying that he's wrong and we should be worried??

#95: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Stwa,

Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:08 am
—

johnsilver wrote (View Post):

What?!? Some dude on TV here has been giving speech after speech the last 6y that the cold war is over and there is nothing to Putin having any Imperialistic thoughts of a new Russian empire! Are you saying that he's wrong and we should be worried?

No. I was attempting to translate the latest message from the collective CCS "think" tank. One of the hobbies of the tank is bashing various countries when they feel the urge. This month it is Russia.

The Russian economy ranks as the ninth largest by nominal GDP and sixth largest by purchasing power parity in 2014. Russia's extensive mineral and energy resources, the largest reserves in the world, have made it one of the largest producers of oil and natural gas globally. The country is one of the five recognized nuclear weapons states and possesses the largest stockpile of weapons of mass destruction. Russia is a great power and a permanent member of the United Nations Security Council, a member of the G20, the Council of Europe, the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation, the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation, the Eurasian Economic Community, the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), and the World Trade Organisation (WTO) and the leading member of the Commonwealth of Independent States. -wiki

Russia

Last edited by Stwa on Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:39 am; edited 1 time in total

#96: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: pvt_Grunt, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:29 am
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I am interested in history, not all topics, but in general European history especially post Roman to rennaisance periods. I have visited Europe twice (Scotland, Austria, Czech republic, France) but I am by no means an expert.
I am, however, a forum poster which means I can espouse many great theories from the comfort of my living room in Frankston (JFGI - Just F-in Google It)

Over the years my interests have changed and morphed, from WW2 (particularly West front 1944) to Saxon era Britain to the role of Tancred in the capture of Antioch in the first crusade.

What has never until now captured my nerdy interest is neither China or Russia. Which is a shame because both are rich in history. I never understood why people were always wishing for a new Eastern front CC.

What HAS grabbed my interest in the last few months is the situation in eastern Ukraine. I have been reading a lot and it has all the makings of a great historic conflict.

First, news IS history, it's just not in library books yet. News is history written BEFORE the winner gets to edit it. Unless you are an Arabic scholar, everything you read about the crusades come from Latin Christian sources.

Second, this is a classic East vs West struggle. Just like Constantinople and Yugoslavia, Ukraine is on the rubbery border of East/West, Latin/Orthodox, NATO/USSR, (almost Muslim/Christian) influence. In this case Ukraine "wants" to join NATO, but Russia sees it as in it's natural sphere of influence. I put "want" in quotes as not ALL Ukrainians want this.

Third, history plays a large part in this struggle. Paranoia about Nazi resurgence, end of era (cold war) empire collapse (think of Pallestine and Iraq being formed by Britain and UN) pining for the "good old days" of communism where the Kremlin was KING.

So - my point is.....I am interested in lots of views on the conflict, not just "NATO propaganda", not just Kremlin revisionism, not just Guardian or Fox news opinions dreassed up as fact. But this takes time and a critical eye to wade through the internets. And not reading Russian is a big disadvantage here, as it is the language of the internet and social media here.

This conflict will play out as all modern conflicts do, in the public eye. It is no longer enough to defeat the enemy on the battlefield like Rommel in Libya, but it must be done in the "media" as well. Repoters are obselete (sadly) as everyone with a smartphone is now a reporter. Can you imagine Omaha beach invasion in 2014? 2 guys with Garrands, 1 with a BAR and 17 with a YOUTUBE INSTAGRAM TWATTER feed that needs feeding!

Also, refer my previous rant (which I quite enjoyed - thank you very much Surprised

) the United States has quite a bit to do with this conflict, as does NATO, but NOT, repeat NOT Obama, or Bush or Palin or any other of those noisy political egos that seem to think they are worldly important.

I havent heard from our mate Vlad this week ( or any other week actually Embarassed

) but I dont believe Putin actually cares who is in the White House on any given day. He believes that Ukraine is HIS sphere of influence and neither Omaba, Bush, Kerry, Romney is going to stop him. SO, forget about the domestic US politics, because you are all the same to every one outside of the US! This is a point I firmly believe many Americans dont get so I'll say it again - You are all the same to every one outside of the US!. Your internal bickering about Tea parties, liberals etc is real, but unimportant. Just like me complaining about Tony Abott's $7 Medicare surcharge, while critically imporatant to my wifes 89 year old Nan, is ABSOLUTELY MEANINGLESS to KG Werfer and his life and health care....

Summary - I am a amateur historian, and news is simply history in the making, and I am listening to ALL different viewpoints, from DIMA to jakebullet70 but I will make up my own mind in the long run. Read everthing, believe nothing is the slogan for the internet age.

Meanwhile I will go back to the wonderfull and ridiculous world of reality - Ukrainian Nazi's, Russian missiles, NATO spies, drunken separatists and dodgy photoshopped satelitte photos released by "news" sites with no satelite access. SO much fun!

Feel free to comment.............................

#97: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: pvt_Grunt, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:46 am
—

Stwa wrote (View Post):

Hey Grunt, feel free to jump in any time. Posting that the thread is off topic (at least the way you did it) ... is also off topic, right? Wink

Now any conversation on forum is essentially just like a conversation in the break area of your work. Your discussions naturally flow into other topics. -mooxe

Good point my YOUTUBE quoting friend...

A thread by it's nature is organic and weaves it's way through an argument, discussion, or topic as it ages.

BUT in this case we must defer to ILL DUCE - MOOXEILLINI and draw a line, perhaps create a spin-off thread or simply consign it to, my favorite, the TRAINWRECKS. Of which I believe you are most familiar with ........

#98: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida

Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 1:05 pm
—

Quote:

I dont believe Putin actually cares who is in the White House on any given day. He believes that Ukraine is HIS sphere of influence and neither Omaba, Bush, Kerry, Romney is going to stop him. SO, forget about the domestic US politics

You make good points there Grunt and I can agree with a bunch of them, more than bait good 'ole DJ into one of his liberal, meaningless blab fests.

Russia.. To me as well as I see it is one of the richest (raw wise) countries in the world. They have nearly every mineral deposit in the world available to them and not afraid of any silly restriction to go about going to get at them. The banking system could be a weakness, or finance as close to government control as it is. A relic of Soviet days.

China is approaching this eminence. Oil might have been the issue, tho they have seemingly fixed this annexing huge areas in the South China Sea.

Back to Russia.. If my memory serves me correctly.. The US has enough Anthracite (white coal) to power the US for 200+ years, not even counting black, or dirty coal, yet the country is treating coal like it's a nasty thing. Russia is the ONLY continent in the world that has more coal than us. THAT is a major factor for an abundant energy supply. Tie that together with massive amounts of natural gas and oil? Russia is indeed a resource rich land.

Most any country would give their eye teeth to have the coal reserves of either the US, or Russia and use them.

#99: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Stwa,

Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 1:57 pm
—
From the end of WW2 in 1945 up to 1960, is 15 years. In year 1960 Germany had a life expectancy of 69,5 years. This made Germany rank at the top in the world, at place 18. Today , Putins has been in power for 15 years and Russia has a life expectancy of 69 years. This makes Russia rank 124 in the world among the worst preforming countries... After 15 years... So if we compare: in the year 1960 Germany = 69,5 thus outperformed Supa KaPutins Russias in 2012 at 69 years. -Original Poster

Grunt - I like history as well.

So, the Original Poster, back on page 2, wanted to make the point that Germany achieved a life expectancy rate of 69.5 years presumably without assistance. Of course, he totally ignored the Marhsall Plan 1948-1952 and the subsidiary plans that followed unitl 1957. Which is not being serious, and outright deceiptful.

The effect of this post WW2 assistance to Western Europe is well documented, and contributed to the recovery of Western European nations, to their morale, quality of life, and life expectancy. Notice in the last video, Hans Rosling stopped the presentation at 1948, the year the Marshall Plan took effect, so from that year forward, the progress (on his graph) could be noticed.

So, I posted a video of the 60th Aniversary of the Marshall Plan, but mooxe put it into Train Wrecks. So for those of you interested you can find it there. But now, here is a video of the 50th Aniversary of the Marshall Plan. Both videos make the point that without the Marshall Plan there may not have been NATO.

Also, at 11:10, there is a nice message for Obama. So check it out.

Again, notice the Original Poster always refers to Putin as KAPUTIN. Just comedy, but NOT SERIOUS nevertheless.

Link

#100: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Tippi-Simo, Location: Helsinki

Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:18 am
—
These sanctions between Russia vs Others will create a bigger black market in Rodina than there already is..

One guy (Russian) was already caught by Russian border guards trying to smuggle 70kg of liver pate..
http://www.iltalehti.fi/uutiset/2014081318570161_uu.shtml

As predicted.. http://barentsobserver.com/en/business/2014/08/predicting-cross-border-shopping-boom-12-08

But also at the same time.. http://barentsobserver.com/en/business/2014/08/russia-orders-three-icebreakers-helsinki-shipyard-11-08

My opinion is that the average loser is a regular Russian citizen. At this moment it is allowed to import Russia 50kg of goods each person. Mostly this stuff is clothes, tires and spare parts.
http://www.iltalehti.fi/uutiset/2014081418572481_uu.shtml

#101: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima,

Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:38 pm
—

Tippi-Simo wrote (View Post):

These sanctions between Russia vs Others will create a bigger black market in Rodina than there already is..

One guy (Russian) was already caught by Russian border guards trying to smuggle 70kg of liver pate..
http://www.iltalehti.fi/uutiset/2014081318570161_uu.shtml

As predicted.. http://barentsobserver.com/en/business/2014/08/predicting-cross-border-shopping-boom-12-08

But also at the same time.. http://barentsobserver.com/en/business/2014/08/russia-orders-three-icebreakers-helsinki-shipyard-11-08

My opinion is that the average loser is a regular Russian citizen. At this moment it is allowed to import Russia 50kg of goods each person. Mostly this stuff is clothes, tires and spare parts.
http://www.iltalehti.fi/uutiset/2014081418572481_uu.shtml

ahh c'mon Putin has agreed for substitution from the South America when he was there a month ago Wink

#102: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Tippi-Simo, Location: Helsinki

Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:20 pm
—
Well, I hope that there is at least Russian beer & vodka left in Saint-Petersburg because I´m going there next week Very Happy

#103: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima,

Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 11:22 am
—

Tippi-Simo wrote (View Post):

Well, I hope that there is at least Russian beer & vodka left in Saint-Petersburg because I´m going there next week Very Happy

alcohol wasn't banned so everything is fine in that matter Wink

.
and I think this ban is good as it will force such giants as Valio to produce more in Russia than on its factories say in Finland Wink

#104: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj,

Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:34 pm
—

jakebullet70 wrote (View Post):

Dima wrote (View Post):

dj wrote (View Post):

If Mitt Romney or Sarah Palin were President they would have Nuked Russia by now..

haha, really? they hate the US population so much?

btw check the German "Iron Sky" movie where Sarah Palin is shown Wink

Great movie!!!

Yea must be a horror movie. Sarah Palin would be President by now if McCain beat Obama in '08 due to stress in office. Look how much a young Obama aged in just 6 years. McCain would probably have to resign or already be dead from all the stress and he's already old as dirt. The horror with Palin's itchy trigger fingers on the nuke button. "Re-load"!

Hard to get movies from Europe here in the U.S. I'll have to check that out.

Russia would never run out of Vodka! Essential must-have. Even American gangsters would figure out way to sell on black market to bypass the embargo.

#105: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida

Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:58 pm
—

Quote:

McCain would probably have to resign or already be dead from all the stress and he's already old as dirt

McCain's physical abilities have been limited since the torture he endured during the ordure he suffered in 'Nam during the 6+ years from the Vietnamese and the Russian trained people "interrogators" that regularly beat him all the time while he was there. He hasn't been able to raise his arms above his shoulders and has issues with both legs thanks to people from both of those countries and the interrogation techniques they used.

What that has to do with his mental ability is just about nothing however. Do agree he was not the correct pick for nomination that year, going with a moderate.

Attacking heroes that endured slave like conditions and brutality in communist prison camps is not the best way to go after someone you don't particularly care for. I don't particularly like the guy either, same with Kerry, another 'Nam hero, but at least McCain didn't return home and sell out everything the country stood for.

#106: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: MajorFrank,

Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:08 pm
—

Dima wrote (View Post):

Tippi-Simo wrote (View Post):

Well, I hope that there is at least Russian beer & vodka left in Saint-Petersburg because I´m going there next week Very Happy

alcohol wasn't banned so everything is fine in that matter Wink

.
and I think this ban is good as it will force such giants as Valio to produce more in Russia than on its factories say in Finland Wink

Does Valio have production facilities in Russia that are allowed to operate and produce goods despite the sanctions? I wasn't aware of this. I know they raided the Valio headquarters in St Petersburg the other day for some reason, maybe suspected money laundering or something.

#107: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima,

Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:20 pm
—

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

Dima wrote (View Post):

Tippi-Simo wrote (View Post):

Well, I hope that there is at least Russian beer & vodka left in Saint-Petersburg because I´m going there next week Very Happy

alcohol wasn't banned so everything is fine in that matter Wink

.
and I think this ban is good as it will force such giants as Valio to produce more in Russia than on its factories say in Finland Wink

yes, of course Valio has factories in Russia - I bet raiding was about pushing Valio to increase output of their Russian facilities.

#108: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: southern_land,

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:37 am
—
Russia wins in the best sports events though... fuck the olympics, fuck the 'world' series... I give you http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/10392501/Russia-takes-out-Tank-Biathlon

#109: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima,

Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:44 am
—
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/08/15/ferguson-riots-play-big-in-russia/
while I generally agree to this article, I still can't understand why it's ok for police to bash rioters (not only in this case) in the USA (and the EU and other democratic free World countries) but totally unacceptable (under the threat of sanctions and the international court) to do the same say in Kiev or Moscow or Minsk...

#110: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida

Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:18 pm
—
Ferguson is a mess, though it looks like the Ferguson PD isn't the only one having issues with those thugs trying to take over the city, looting everything withing the area, burning, throwing rocks..shooting each other etc..

The FHP that had taken over has just now slammed the "criminals" in Ferguson, arrested just arrested 31 last night alone and 2 were shot (not by the police either) after those same thugs went on a looting spree and in general all night binge of downright uselessness.

Quote:

A visibly angry Johnson said that officers had come under heavy gunfire from protesters and at least two people had been shot. Johnson said he did not know the condition of the shooting victims. Four officers had been injured when they were struck by rocks or bottles, though Johnson claimed that police had not fired a single shot.

Maybe Sharpton/Jackson should use that above quote as the main focus of their next agitation rant? Doubtful..

ferguson

#111: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima,

Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:00 pm
—

johnsilver wrote (View Post):

Ferguson is a mess, though it looks like the Ferguson PD isn't the only one having issues with those thugs trying to take over the city, looting everything withing the area, burning, throwing rocks..shooting each other etc..

The FHP that had taken over has just now slammed the "criminals" in Ferguson, arrested just arrested 31 last night alone and 2 were shot (not by the police either) after those same thugs went on a looting spree and in general all night binge of downright uselessness.

Quote:

Maybe Sharpton/Jackson should use that above quote as the main focus of their next agitation rant? Doubtful..

ferguson

So why don't US officials just let the people express their will? Smile

http://rt.com/news/horrifying-videos-kiev-maidan-901/ - somehow they supported the rioting mob in Kiev half a year ago threatening the Ukranian oficials...

#112: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida

Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:20 pm
—
I don't think the South is seceding from the North (again), even threatening to. Kind of a huge difference there Dima. Not even getting huge loads of weapons/troops loaded in via transport under the guise of humanitarian services and I also don't think those hooligans have attempted to even shoot down any airliners.. They are about as well equipped as the next bunch of street thugs, like in Chicago, Detroit, or most other large city around the western world that thinks everybody owes them something for nothing.

#113: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima,

Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:49 pm
—

johnsilver wrote (View Post):

I don't think the South is seceding from the North (again), even threatening to. Kind of a huge difference there Dima. Not even getting huge loads of weapons/troops loaded in via transport under the guise of humanitarian services and I also don't think those hooligans have attempted to even shoot down any airliners.. They are about as well equipped as the next bunch of street thugs, like in Chicago, Detroit, or most other large city around the western world that thinks everybody owes them something for nothing.

the link i've posted (http://rt.com/news/horrifying-videos-kiev-maidan-901/) shows riots at Maidan in Kiev where the mob paid by someone was assaulting the police with fire bombs. That time there was nothing about seceding or slpliting of Ukraine. And the free World leaders have threatened the Ukranian president by sanctions and court if he uses force against them. Well same was in Syria and Lybia and Egypt AFAIK.

Quote:

Not even getting huge loads of weapons/troops loaded in via transport under the guise of humanitarian services and I also don't think those hooligans have attempted to even shoot down any airliners..

well, some says your officials are good at ramming buildings and Pentagon with aircrafts to start a war(s), no wonder the free world advisors could offer same shit to the Ukranians Wink

.
and it's all about your paranoia regarding humanitarian aid - it was checked by IRC, Ukranian customs and whomnot - unfortunately for you nothing was there but the humanitarian aid.

#114: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida

Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:47 pm
—
Hi Dima,

Yes, I went to the link :-)

BTW, in case you hadn't checked any updates on the US political left with regards to Ferguson, Obama has sent his hatchet man.. Holder there to "check out the situation" and for some reason? A federal autopsy:

Holder

Me thinks some possible good old night stick use could well be the answer to what is needed when these thugs get out of line. FWIW. you probably won't see me as one of the users here getting onto the police, nor Russian police forces, any others either that displace crowds in that manner that are not used by authoritarian governments.

I remember the days when prisoners were transported around in metal caged vehicles, shackled together and when on work crews had guards carrying loaded winchesters and wearing striped uniforms. Return to those days and garbage like happens at every big city and currently at Ferguson will simply not happen. Once the fear is removed, it's too late.

You are correct with that about the latter part and loon speculation. Amazing how many were still screaming that on the far left the latter part of the Bush years, as goofey and nonsensical as it was.

As for the humanitarian aid you/I referenced again.. What exactly did the Ukranians bomb this past weekend then I wonder? I have read several different reports..

convoy

#115: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj,

Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:07 am
—
Noticed that you conveniently left out the part that they shot execution style 18 year old kid in broad daylight, with multiple witness accounts. The cop / jury / executioner has not come out to call the eyewitness accounts liars like Bill O'Reilly did. Come on...you people are so desperate to paint all the Negros as thugs. Just say i'm not a racist...I just hate Negros, Mexicans or anyone else not down with the Fox News crowd. Kind of like when Sean Hannity had to back-track and claim he no longer supported Ted Bundy ranch gangsters after he was caught on camera making racist remarks. OOOPS! as Rick Perry would say.

Police in USA shoot or beat to death innocent people every day...they just never get caught. Never in the history of my local County have they ever charged Police with crime even though they kill citizens almost daily. Sounds like you and the Fox News crowd LOVES the Police State in America. Even Russia has less people in Prison than America...and is not a for-profit corrupt system. Nice touch there with that slant on Obama and turing this into some type of leftist agenda to give those lazy inner city Negros free hand-outs.

As LBJ prophetically said - the Civil Rights and Desegregation laws he passed would cause his party to lose the South for a generation. More like several generations. Notice every single state that fought against America in the Civil War except Florida always vote for the Neo-Confederates.

#116: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima,

Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:00 am
—

Quote:

As for the humanitarian aid you/I referenced again.. What exactly did the Ukranians bomb this past weekend then I wonder? I have read several different reports..
convoy

that was a bluff from the Ukranians as every single action and virtually every single destroyed or captured vehicle is documented (photo or video) there.
and it's obviously they would have taken tons of photos of destroyed Russian vehicles. By now there is 0 photo of Russian (not Soviet) weapons/vehicles used in Ukraine.

#117: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida

Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:10 pm
—

Quote:

they would have taken tons of photos of destroyed Russian vehicles. By now there is 0 photo of Russian (not Soviet) weapons/vehicles used in Ukraine

That part had me wondering. The Kiev government took credit for destroying part of a convoy of "armored vehicles", but never proved any of it was my thoughts also. There is a lot of speculation going on in this mess, much like in the early stages of the Croat-Serb conflict to some extent. This one is for some higher stakes of course with a higher backing it seems from major powers.

Oh DJ.. Have you selectively left out all the "forgotten" video now that is calmly edited out on MSNBC, NBC, ABC, etc, where the robber (believed to be Brown) was robbing a convenience store?

Brown robbery video

Also. Take a close look at the THUGS I am talking about.. They ain't all negroes dude.. honky's, blacks, asians, all types. inner cities are a melting pot of despair for all types of rot and most make the worst of it, then tear it up and make it even worse than it was before, if possible.

Then the left buses in agitators and a few race baiters to fire them up and what you see is what we are left with.. A cauldron of fire. The entire city should be locked down. until the police can regain control of the situation. The civies are the ones who will remain, yet the baiters and agitators are destroying it. How "funny huh? Destroying the very core of the city and expecting them to rebuild it for them for *free*??

#118: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: MajorFrank,

Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:02 pm
—

johnsilver wrote (View Post):

What if nations such as China, Russia, Iran, etc. were supplying these "thugs" with money, intel and even some hardware? And then when you would try to suppress the 'rebels' the nations supporting them would give out a stern ultimatum not to stop their activities?

#119: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida

Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:08 pm
—
Maj Frank,

You can call me a conspiracy theorist or whatever.. But the last few years the country has spread further and further apart. Been torn apart is the more correct word and what is happening in Ferguson is the result. I can see another internal war in this country, based on what media and elitists are currently spreading and far too many regular people let just pass on by without putting a stop to. Just flat out nonsense, by both parties being put out there.

Not looking, or wanting a flame war on this. I see it based mostly along the same areas as it was before, only adding several western states on one side, then having the NE mostly cut off on the other.

Such a large land of people, with so many cultures probably should have split before. Even before the addition of so many more from other areas of the world.

Before, those were open to taking their traditions and melding them to what was, now they are not and it does not work. It raises tensions. The bigger picture always needs to be looked at rather than the smaller one which is always being lost.

#120: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: pvt_Grunt, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:14 pm
—

johnsilver wrote (View Post):

Good point, it has some very similar traits including a lack of clear unbiased facts to report. And two sides who "think" they can use the media to tell laughable bare-faced lies and propoganda. Some of the you tube videos are so amateur you have to wonder who they're really aimed at.

We assume they are trying to sway the Western populations, but perhaps they are aimed at their own one-eyed supporters only.

#121: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj,

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:18 am
—

johnsilver wrote (View Post):

Quote:

they would have taken tons of photos of destroyed Russian vehicles. By now there is 0 photo of Russian (not Soviet) weapons/vehicles used in Ukraine

This is a Tiananmen Square moment in America no matter how desperate the Fox News conservative machine is trying to spin it. Do they have you that indoctrinated in Conservative media, not to mention the Police chief himself said it was NOT Brown in that video. is Bill O'Reilly calling the Police chief a liar too? Personally I was beaten by the Police so bad I could not barely walk for 2 days...when I was only 16 yrs old & never even charged with anything. It unfortunately takes a kid to get shot at 12 noon with multiple witnesses before finally the brutality of the Police State gets exposed.

Please...Fox is hyping as a bunch of thug blacks, when only a small number of protestors are the trouble-makers. Not all the people there are Protestors even. Yea Fox eats that up as a way to make them all look like bums on food stamps, welfare, trying to rob a convenience store or some other slant. Now the Police leaked to media that Brown had Marijuana in his system...as if that made it ok to kill him.

The militarization of American police and our prison system is getting out of control. At this rate we will look like the old Russian Gulags soon.

#122: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:57 pm
—

Quote:

This is a Tiananmen Square moment in America no matter how desperate the Fox News conservative machine is trying to spin it.

I must have missed the armored vehicles rolling over those thugs then? Did the MSNBC cameras catch them by chance?

Something else not being shown on the main spin media is what that thug Brown did to officer Wilson.. Just prior to him being shot.. Have you even bothered to check any facts yet? Even with over a dozen eye witnesses?

injuries

One can google it also. There is also questions on how the gun discharged also. I have this sneaky feeling good old Al may be on another jena 6 failure of justice. Sharpton has this habit of ALWAYS picking the same side, right or wrong and always sticking with the same old stale race race card to the bitter end, then when he's proven wrong? leaving a trail of stink out of the area like a skunk.

Facts never matter to him, just one thing.. the above r-a-c-e.

#123: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: pvt_Grunt, Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:19 pm
    —
Hmm - small time crook assaults policeman, policeman over reacts and shoots him dead. Extremists from both sides rush in to spin the story to suit their message.

Whats happening in Russia?

I imagine this sort of thing would happen often enough. It certainly happens here regularly. We have had plenty here as well, they just dont always strike a media chord the way this incident did.

Now people are pointing their fingers saying "See what we will become if gets elected!!!!!" while ignoring that crime occurs no matter who's in office.
#124: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:07 pm
    —

Quote:

Hmm - small time crook assaults policeman, policeman over reacts and shoots him dead. Extremists from both sides rush in to spin the story to suit their message.

Exactly Grunt, that's how it looks on the cover, but looks can be wrong as we've seen so far in this mess-terpiece. The dude is like 6'3 and nearly 300lbs. An imposing figure and according to some of the other reports that were leaked out.. Friends, police leaks.. It was quite a struggle between Brown and Wilson. Even the gun discharge is in dispute, but I am also of the opinion he shot him. Man.. The guy beat the dickens out of him.. The question will be if he was running away or not, or if brown was trying to finish him off after Wilson was chasing him down and still trying to arrest him.

People should watch news if that's how they prefer to get sources of it, but PLEASE.. If they are going to have opinions? At least have the decency to at look at it from the other side when it even smacks of having a sense of ludicrous to it, as this did. I counted no less than a dozen different web links with orbital fracture and officer wilson on a google search. None went to mainstream media and only one went to fox news.

Prefer to catch opinionated news? At least watch the other side sometimes, or use the internet.

Quote:

Now people are pointing their fingers saying "See what we will become if gets elected!!!!!" while ignoring that crime occurs no matter who's in office.

I agree with you 100% we were promised different, but we've seen totally worse. I don't see it getting better either as have posted. Putin has rightfully even gotten onto Obama regarding this. What right does obama have to get onto putin about anything? obama can't do anything diplomatically. inept there and has racial problems at home he can't control as well he promised to get better and are spiraling out of control as well?
#125: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj, Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 4:56 am
    —
John - are you blind man? Tianamen Square, just one man / protestor stood in front of a column of tanks against an oppressive regime and changed history. The tank never ran over him.
Ferguson USA looks like a third world country. Did you not see all the Armoured vehicles, swat teams, snipers, army of militarized police with assault rifles threatening civilians exercising their Constitutional rights to protest. What is the justification for Police turning cameras off after they drove off media with tear gas? Let me hear your Fox News spin on that one.

You took that Fox News bait that floated around the Conservative media of course. You don't even know what facts even are you are so completely indoctrinated. There is no proof about that story about the allegation of broken bone. It was Fox News that first ran that story and they even had to backtrack and later say they weren't even sure if it was true. Facts don't even matter when you live in the Conservative media bubble. The Police leaked that story to cover their asses for grand jury. Just like how they leaked how Brown had marijuana in his system. Complete hearsay and irrelevant.

This is embarrassing for USA around the world. But it is a good thing. Now there is pressure to force Police to wear "body cameras" to prevent abuse / murder of citizens. Dash cams in Police cars has already been very effective to catch thug Police and a few have lost their jobs because of it. Now finally I hope the oppressive Police State in USA will finally fall after decades of corruption and abuse of power.

Isn't this thread suppose to be about Russia?
#126: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 5:16 am
    —
Get off that self made high horse there DJ.. I also was calling for wait and see..

The anarchists in the city didn't wait for the facts to come in and t seems that the injuries to the officers face you don't believe either. Maybe the district attorney will have to (probably) release them when it's all said and done.

Had the civies in ferguson not acted so rationally upon the outset all the issues could have probably been resolved.

Agree this thread is supposed to be on Russia DJ. We have all sidetracked it again temporarily, this time on Ferguson. Somewhat related, this time with regards to civil unrest which could be related, just thousands of miles away.

Dima's updates on happenings, via english translations of russian media are/were always helpful. I never found any good sites for helpful intel regarding them.
#127: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Tippi-Simo, Location: Helsinki Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:02 am
    —
http://barentsobserver.com/en/security/2014/08/finland-suspects-two-russian-violations-airspace-26-08

Third one happened yesterday (in a week)..
"It´s always the neighbors causing problems" - Russian people

Let´s see what will happen..
#128: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima, Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 4:34 pm
    —

Tippi-Simo wrote (View Post):

http://barentsobserver.com/en/security/2014/08/finland-suspects-two-russian-violations-airspace-26-08

Third one happened yesterday (in a week)..
"It´s always the neighbors causing problems" - Russian people

Let´s see what will happen..

yes, everything went out of track since recently.
noone can understand what's going on now - but seems bets are too high .
#129: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Cathartes, Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:30 pm
    —
The old Russian Bear is yearning to expand his territory these days, and he's in a foul mood:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-28971901
#130: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Tippi-Simo, Location: Helsinki Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:26 pm
    —
First of all, it was a mistake to Finland to join to the EU. And it was done without a referendum.
The government made that decision. Finnish people have been always peaceful, we don´t like war (but we will take arms if necessary).
I wish that the Russian government see no threat here.
#131: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima, Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:29 pm
    —

Cathartes wrote (View Post):

The old Russian Bear is yearning to expand his territory these days, and he's in a foul mood:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-28971901

that's a stupid bullshit.
but what to expect from a media that refers to http://censor.net.ua/ without prooves .
#132: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima, Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:35 pm
    —

Tippi-Simo wrote (View Post):

First of all, it was a mistake to Finland to join to the EU. And it was done without a referendum.
The government made that decision. Finnish people have been always peaceful, we don´t like war (but we will take arms if necessary).
I wish that the Russian government see no threat here.

now it doesn't depend on you (or me) or your country decisions unfortunately.
let's just wait and see.

my suppliers from Switzerland (with factories in Latvia and Slovakia) were really surprised to loose their Euro 1mln a year from me as we switched to the Russian suppliers. Still are asking what they did wrong. Down with the sanctions .
#133: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Tippi-Simo, Location: Helsinki Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:44 pm
    —
On May I got 50 rubles for one euro, now only 48.
This will make Ruble stronger for sure I don´t doubt that!
#134: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima, Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:47 pm
    —

Tippi-Simo wrote (View Post):

On May I got 50 rubles for one euro, now only 48.
This will make Ruble stronger for sure I don´t doubt that!

yeah it was actually in January when it first reached 50.
bought alot of Euros that time just to loose money on it in 1 month .
#135: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Tippi-Simo, Location: Helsinki Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 7:04 am
    —
http://en.delfi.lt/lithuania/foreign-affairs/russia-reopens-criminal-cases-against-lithuanians-who-refused-to-serve-in-soviet-army.d?id=65776132

No comment..
#136: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: MajorFrank, Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:07 pm
    —
Nice image I saw in Finnish media. It's from a Russian military exercise in Moscow last August.

#137: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: mooxe, Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:28 pm
    —
Space shuttle in the background?
#138: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: MajorFrank, Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:34 pm
    —
It could be the Buran, the Soviet space shuttle.

Buran
#139: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima, Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:41 am
    —

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

Nice image I saw in Finnish media. It's from a Russian military exercise in Moscow last August.

this picture is from The Tank Biathlon competition.
Yes, space shuttle Buran is on back ground.
#140: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima, Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:48 am
    —
At last somebody said it straight:

Putin is the dominant figure in Russia today, and he makes the final decisions on foreign policy. But we need to remember that he operates in a political context and does not have a free hand, as he must balance the competing factions around him to maintain his own position. Moreover, he is a product of the Russian elite, and he gives voice to its consensus on Russia’s role in the world, which has deep roots in history and strategic tradition. His departure might lead to a change in style, but it will have little impact on the substance of Russian foreign policy. In short, we have a Russia problem, not a Putin problem.
http://perspectives.carnegie.org/us-russia/a-russia-problem-not-a-putin-problem/
#141: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj, Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 4:08 pm
    —
I disagree with that statement. Boris Yeltsin would never had acted so aggressively. There are tangible differences with Russia's leaders over the years. Even in USSR days, huge differences with each leader. In America we too have a massive political/corporate machine that no President individually can change. However Putin personally is accountable for the policy in Ukraine. Also he has been in power since the late 90's after Yeltsin's death...so he acts like he is entitled to stay in power indefinitely.
#142: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima, Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:02 pm
    —

dj wrote (View Post):

I disagree with that statement. Boris Yeltsin would never had acted so aggressively.

so you don't remember how under Eltsin our troops were fighting in Abkhazia and South Ossetia againts Georgians, in Prednestrovie againtst Moldavians, and in Chechna against separatists

Quote:

There are tangible differences with Russia's leaders over the years. Even in USSR days, huge differences with each leader. In America we too have a massive political/corporate machine that no President individually can change. However Putin personally is accountable for the policy in Ukraine. Also he has been in power since the late 90's after Yeltsin's death...so he acts like he is entitled to stay in power indefinitely.

you know there is a popular game Zombies vs Plants, choose your side
#143: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Ramcke, Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 1:12 am
    —
its a power struggle; Ukraine has nukes and more nukes makes Russia more powerful

just my thoughts
#144: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima, Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 4:01 am
    —

Ramcke wrote (View Post):

its a power struggle; Ukraine has nukes and more nukes makes Russia more powerful
just my thoughts

reading your posts in these couple of days i thought you were stupid but looks like I overstimated you.
#145: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Antony_nz, Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 10:32 am
    —
The Ukraine does not have nukes. Some have criticized the removal of them.
But i don't think this is about nukes. And i don't think more nukes will make Russia more powerfull.
#146: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Stwa, Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 3:07 pm
    —
Ukraine should settle this with nukes.

Link

#147: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj, Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:26 am
    —

Dima wrote (View Post):

dj wrote (View Post):

I disagree with that statement. Boris Yeltsin would never had acted so aggressively.

so you don't remember how under Eltsin our troops were fighting in Abkhazia and South Ossetia againts Georgians, in Prednestrovie againtst Moldavians, and in Chechna against separatists

Quote:

There are tangible differences with Russia's leaders over the years. Even in USSR days, huge differences with each leader. In America we too have a massive political/corporate machine that no President individually can change. However Putin personally is accountable for the policy in Ukraine. Also he has been in power since the late 90's after Yeltsin's death...so he acts like he is entitled to stay in power indefinitely.

you know there is a popular game Zombies vs Plants, choose your side

Not a valid analogy Dima. Although you are correct, Yeltin was trying to prevent those provinces from breaking away. It is not the same thing as what Putin is doing in Ukraine. To my knowledge, the international community never officially considered Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Moldavia, or Chechna independent nations. Whereas Ukraine has long been established a sovereign independent nation for some time now. Clinton had bad policy to support the Chechnans. Many of these people join the ranks of Islamic jihadi's maybe even some now are in the ranks of ISIS.

What did you mean about Putin not being individually accountable for actions? Do you think the defense companies in Russia or industrialists are putting pressure on him to start war and expand? I kind of doubt that would be the case - it seems he is using this action to bring Russia back to glory days of imperialist power. It has been a long time since Russia has been able to go on offense and expand its borders. Here in America, the defense corporation has an army of lobbyists along with many business partner industrialists that seek to perpetually grow spending. Not sure if Russia has that issue.
#148: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima, Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:07 am
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dj wrote (View Post):

Not a valid analogy Dima. Although you are correct, Yeltin was trying to prevent those provinces from breaking away. It is not the same thing as what Putin is doing in Ukraine. To my knowledge, the international community never officially considered Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Moldavia, or Chechna independent nations. Whereas Ukraine has long been established a sovereign independent nation for some time now.

Abkhazia
The conflict involved a 13-month-long War in Abkhazia, beginning in August 1992, with Georgian government forces and a militia composed of ethnic Georgians who lived in Abkhazia on one side and Russian-backed separatist forces consisting of ethnic Abkhazians, Armenians and Russians who also lived in Abkhazia on the other side. The separatists were supported by the North Caucasian and Cossack militants and (unofficially) by Russian forces stationed in Gudauta. The conflict resulted in an agreement in Sochi to cease hostilities, however, this would not last.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abkhaz%E2%80%93Georgian_conflict#War_in_Abkhazia

Transnistria
The War of Transnistria followed armed clashes on a limited scale which broke out between Transnistrian separatists and Moldova as early as November 1990 at Dub?sari. Volunteers, including Cossacks, came from Russia and Ukraine to help the separatist side.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnistria#War_of_Transnistria

Does it sound so much different from Ukraine?

Quote:

Clinton had bad policy to support the Chechnans. Many of these people join the ranks of Islamic jihadi's maybe even some now are in the ranks of ISIS.

Not maybe.

Quote:

What did you mean about Putin not being individually accountable for actions? Do you think the defense companies in Russia or industrialists are putting pressure on him to start war and expand? I kind of doubt that would be the case - it seems he is using this action to bring Russia back to glory days of imperialist power. It has been a long time since Russia has been able to go on offense and expand its borders. Here in America, the defense corporation has an army of lobbyists along with many business partner industrialists that seek to perpetually grow spending. Not sure if Russia has that issue.

Putin is not an evil genious. He is just a member/leader of one of the clans deciding the Russian politics.
#149: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: pvt_Grunt, Location: Melbourne, Australia Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 11:42 am
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An interesting article about the effects of totalitarianism in Russia.

In 2006 and 2007, Michelle Parsons, an anthropologist who teaches at Emory University and had lived in Russia during the height of the population decline in the early 1990s, set out to explore what she calls “the cultural context of the Russian mortality crisis

http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2014/sep/02/dying-russians/
#150: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Stwa, Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:19 am
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Hey Grunt,

Interesting article, but after reading, I wondered about China being the country with the largest population, and why they were not afflicted with conditions similar to Russia.
#151: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: pvt_Grunt, Location: Melbourne, Australia Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:48 am
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Stwa wrote (View Post):

Hey Grunt,

Interesting article, but after reading, I wondered about China being the country with the largest population, and why they were not afflicted with conditions similar to Russia.

I think the writer sort of jumped a few points. They compare each individual vice with another country as a way of ruling that factor out. Ex smoke like a Greek, drink like a Czech, eat like an Englishman - but fails to acknowledge that if you do ALL of these at the same time, your life expectancy WILL decrease.

Either way, I agree that a lack of future, the grinding down of hope is a feature of totalitarian regimes that will lead to these behaviours.

I posted this because the life expectancy was one of the factors talked about earlier in this thread.
#152: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 5:58 am
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Troger says - False. Saakashvili is not wanted for "starting the war." He's been summoned for question regarding a murder case.

Actually he is wanted for starting the war. The charge is corruption while in Office. Currently he is living in Miami with all the other overthrown dictators.

I can't help but laugh at those who were gullible enough to believe the rubbish backing the now crumbling Ukraine Govt a couple of months ago. All those stories that the Russia Army had invaded, shelling Ukraine from Russia etc - still no proof. The only proof to date is that the Nationalist Govt in Kiev is falling apart - resignations, corruption, attacks on foreign journo's, further riots, ran away prices for gas and consumables etc. Then there is the matter of the Ukraine Army being beaten by a militia aided by Russia and mass desertions.

USA pretty much have handed Russia a free hand in the Ukraine now after it's own illegal strikes in Syria without Syrian Govt permission. An act of war by any other name. The Brit's are refusing to bombing Syria as they know it's illegal and repercussions to follow.
#153: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima, Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:09 am
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Investigation about the Russian troops in Ukraine with photos and references. Google translate it.
http://top.rbc.ru/politics/02/10/2014/542c0dcfcbb20f5d06c1d87a
#154: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Tippi-Simo, Location: Helsinki Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:18 am
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Next week to Saint-Petersburg. Hopefully I am not arrested..

Seems like people here don´t care that much what is going on in Ukraine because the train is fully booked which I travel..
#155: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: MajorFrank, Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:59 pm
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The Swedes have been tracking a Russian sub or mini sub. Today they said they "made contact" with "something", possibly a Russian made listening device. No tangible proof of a sub as of yet.

BBC news story about the sub hunt.
#156: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj, Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:50 am
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Why are they lurking? Sounds suspicious or they are doomed with accident like the other nuke sub disaster the Russians had.
#157: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: MajorFrank, Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 3:54 pm
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Well the Swedes don't exactly have any listening device, a kind of sonar bouy, to prove that there was a Russian sub to begin with. They claim they ran into one but didn't manage to haul it onboard. So that makes me suspicious that there never was one to begin with. Finnish media has been drumming up this incident but with no tangible proof of a sub...just doesn't convince me. The Swedes have previously mistaken swimming otters (?) as Russian subs so I'm calling Swedish flub on this one.

More BBC news about the whole debacle.
#158: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj, Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:15 am
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Good article. Funny how Russia views the accusations with "disdain". I do find it hard to believe Russia would waste time with Sweden so I thought maybe another sub accident tragedy was more likely.

Or this could be another USO incident as reported near Canada's Nova Scotia coast?

"Russians have treated the allegations with disdain, even suggesting it might be a Dutch submarine. But the Ukraine crisis has revived many of the trappings of the Cold War. In the space of a couple of months

Estonia has accused Russia of abducting a security official
Finland has said Russian planes entered its airspace and one of its research boats was interfered with in international waters in the Baltic Sea
Nato says a Russian spy plane briefly entered Estonian airspace on 21 October after flying near Denmark and Sweden..."
#159: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Stwa, Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:18 am
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Swedish Institute of Public Health identifies GAY submarine.

Link

#160: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:42 am
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If they really want to locate potential Russian subs in the Baltic.. Why not temporarily detach a unit of the new MCM class of mine sweepers to Nato.. Run some bogus fleet tests with Sweden, Finland.. Whoever and coordinate with the air? Wooden hulled Sweeper's (like I was on) were capable of sweeping and had the capability of scanning the ocean depths, at any position for submarines.. Had a submersible even which suspect the new McM class is leaps and bounds ahead technology wise 35y later..

Deploy 2-4 to the Baltic with the most advanced sonar, radar and other under sea detection equipment in the world and lets see if Russia has a sub hiding or not
#161: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:49 am
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Sounds like more European paranoia again backed up with no evidence. These countries point the finger at Russia continuously, stand a chance of looking like screaming school girls if they keep it up with these accusations and no proof.
#162: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 2:37 pm
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You are probably correct on that Sod. My point of satisfying the Euro's fears was a way of making a point that there is nothing there and really.. Exactly what GOOD, or HARM is a Soviet sub going to do anyway? Does anyone actually think that it would go on an attack mission, or is probing for weaknesses? I imagine the Soviet subs are still the loudest in the world and can be picked up by most any US ship with any AS capabilities. (see Soviet Papa class).
#163: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima, Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 3:00 am
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johnsilver wrote (View Post):

You are probably correct on that Sod. My point of satisfying the Euro's fears was a way of making a point that there is nothing there and really.. Exactly what GOOD, or HARM is a Soviet sub going to do anyway? Does anyone actually think that it would go on an attack mission, or is probing for weaknesses? I imagine the Soviet subs are still the loudest in the world and can be picked up by most any US ship with any AS capabilities. (see Soviet Papa class).

ahh mate, you are really outdated, Papa class was put out of service in 1988 .
so much has changed since you were in the Navy
#164: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 3:52 am
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johnsilver - Totally agree.
#165: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: MajorFrank, Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 11:02 am
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johnsilver wrote (View Post):

You are probably correct on that Sod. My point of satisfying the Euro's fears was a way of making a point that there is nothing there and really.. Exactly what GOOD, or HARM is a Soviet sub going to do anyway? Does anyone actually think that it would go on an attack mission, or is probing for weaknesses? I imagine the Soviet subs are still the loudest in the world and can be picked up by most any US ship with any AS capabilities. (see Soviet Papa class).

It could be Swedish paranoia, they have a new government stepping in and the Swedish military might be trying to create a 'scene' in order to secure more funding from the new government they feared was going to cut more funding (the new government is center-left).

If there was tangible proof of a sub then yes, I would agree with the Swedes. As there isn't and with the Swedes past history of getting things wrong, I'm not convinced. I guess going to another nations territorial waters is a serious offence, more serious then (accicdentally) breaching their air space. Sending ground troops into their territory is the most serious I guess. But anyway.

The Swedes even thought they had a picture of a Russian saboteur/infiltrator on shore, a guy dressed in black clothing, but it turned out to be a Swedish retiree named Ove who had gone fishing. The whole thing is more like a funny comedy show.

BBC: Sweden called off sub search yesterday
#166: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:57 pm
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Dima wrote (View Post):

johnsilver wrote (View Post):

You are probably correct on that Sod. My point of satisfying the Euro's fears was a way of making a point that there is nothing there and really.. Exactly what GOOD, or HARM is a Soviet sub going to do anyway? Does anyone actually think that it would go on an attack mission, or is probing for weaknesses? I imagine the Soviet subs are still the loudest in the world and can be picked up by most any US ship with any AS capabilities. (see Soviet Papa class).

ahh mate, you are really outdated, Papa class was put out of service in 1988 .
so much has changed since you were in the Navy

You are right have fallen behind in reading, or behind in studying much in Soviet Naval capabilities the last couple of decades Dima, though prior to that and intend no insult to yourself.. The results of Soviet spending to build quite Submarines was not good.. My mention of the Papa class was intentional. It was fast, the fastest in the world, Soviet English name translated to "Golden Egg" because they were so expensive to build, just very noisy and easy to pick up underwater.

I can tell you that Sonar on minesweepers, such as the old boat I was on during the 70's even had the capabilities to ASW duty. Patrol boats are equipped also with it, or were. Not sure how well equipped some of the NATO countries are , but can imagine those dozen McM ships left have some fairly advanced equipment by now.. Hell.. We didn't even have computers back in my day even..

I really doubt submarines (on any force) are of really any use for more than 1 shot, unless the other side has no detection capabilities anyway.
#167: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima, Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:09 am
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johnsilver wrote (View Post):

You are right have fallen behind in reading, or behind in studying much in Soviet Naval capabilities the last couple of decades Dima, though prior to that and intend no insult to yourself.. The results of Soviet spending to build quite Submarines was not good.. My mention of the Papa class was intentional. It was fast, the fastest in the world, Soviet English name translated to "Golden Egg" because they were so expensive to build, just very noisy and easy to pick up underwater.

read about Kilo diesel subs and the new Graney nuclear subs.

Quote:

I can tell you that Sonar on minesweepers, such as the old boat I was on during the 70's even had the capabilities to ASW duty. Patrol boats are equipped also with it, or were. Not sure how well equipped some of the NATO countries are , but can imagine those dozen McM ships left have some fairly advanced equipment by now.. Hell.. We didn't even have computers back in my day even..

yes, known and well adressed problem, they say it was fixed since Kilo.

Quote:

I really doubt submarines (on any force) are of really any use for more than 1 shot, unless the other side has no detection capabilities anyway.

I think they understood that in USSR times, my father beeing on practice at Liepaya (modern Latvia) Naval base says that the rocket sub he was appointed to was standing at the dock with London being a permanent target for all her ballistic rockets. Guess the other rockets subs were aiming at other objectives all the time so they just needed to fire once, yes.
#168: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:45 am
    —

Quote:

I think they understood that in USSR times, my father beeing on practice at Liepaya (modern Latvia) Naval base says that the rocket sub he was appointed to was standing at the dock with London being a permanent target for all her ballistic rockets. Guess the other rockets subs were aiming at other objectives all the time so they just needed to fire once, yes.

I should have made it more plain.. Boomer's of any nationality are one shot, no matter how stealthy they are. those missile's breaking surface are going to pinpoint location and they can't run that fast underwater where aircraft won't locate.
#169: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Stwa, Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:07 pm
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Yada, yada, yada ...

Obama will be go down in American history as one of the smartest presidents ever. He is going to deliver a 1-2 punch that will secure Ukraine for NATO.

And he will not even use a single submarine.

First he will send in the pro Russian jihadies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AT36cbr8C4

Then, for the knockout punch, Obama will send in the gays.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB5D07Z1hfU
#170: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: CloseCombatRob, Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:21 pm
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You can say how Russia are evil for taking Crimea yada yada, heck the people in Crimea prefer to be part of Russia, but whatever the media says about Russia is always heavily biased and over exaggerated, and its not like the US and other NATO countries haven't ever invaded non NATO countries for there own personal greed so to say Russia is evil is like saying, "oh Russia we can do this since were the USA and we do what we want but you can't because your a different nation", also the US is provoking Russia so much recently, so Russia flies a few bombers next to the US and then there's a story about how Russians are evil again, I'm not for war at all, but this is just silly games between the 2 nations if anything, it's like the cold war has started again.
#171: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Stwa, Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 6:11 am
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Excellent post CloseCombatRob!

I hope above I was able to partially answer what was going on in Russia (or a sebset of Russia), Ukraine.

Here is a video that adequately show what is not going on in Ukraine/Russia.

It is the stated goal of NATO to eliminate the culture of Ukraine, and replace it with Muslims, gays, and Africans. (et al. David Cameron)

It has nothing to do with fascism or communism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5kJJL9BNdM
#172: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj, Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 6:06 pm
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So how Russia is innocent and being oppressed by Fascist puppet state in Ukraine? It's getting ridiculous. With the sanctions, collapse of Russian currency and free-falling oil prices...Putin is getting desperate.

Unbelievable how so many years after WW2, Russia and Ukraine are calling each other Nazi's, making references to Adolf and trying to humiliate POW's in parades much as they did during the war.
#173: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima, Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:13 pm
    —

Quote:

So how Russia is innocent and being oppressed by Fascist puppet state in Ukraine? It's getting ridiculous.

of cause Russia is not oppressed by Ukraine, that would be really ridiculous if it would happen.
But if Ukraine is in state of war with Russia, why do Ukranians planes fly to Russia? Why does Ukraine buy oil, gas and coal from Russia? Why do we have thousands of West Ukranians in Russia hiding from mobilization? Why does Motor-Sich still produce engines for the Russian helicopters?
Is it not strange?

Quote:

With the sanctions, collapse of Russian currency and free-falling oil prices...Putin is getting desperate.

people of Russia start getting desperate, Putin seems to be not.
Again, his approval rating circa January 2015 is 85%.

Yesterday, the guy I know decided to go as a volunteer to Donbass as he lost his job and had nothing to loose here...hopefully he will survive.
#174: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:18 am
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Quote:

With the sanctions, collapse of Russian currency and free-falling oil prices...Putin is getting desperate.

I agree with your response on that Dima. merkel has came out early and warned not to do anything to "spook" Putin. She knows there isn't anyone going to stand up to him at the moment. Nobody in Europe for certain, nor anyone in North America until at least 2016.

Putin has a free reign for a couple of years to take back the former Russian states, nobody will interfere in any meaningful way. As long as the Russian economy can hold on, he might as well continue. He's popular enough from within.
#175: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima, Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:35 am
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johnsilver wrote (View Post):

I agree with your response on that Dima. merkel has came out early and warned not to do anything to "spook" Putin. She knows there isn't anyone going to stand up to him at the moment. Nobody in Europe for certain, nor anyone in North America until at least 2016..

well it's obvious - if US supplies lethal weapons to Ukraine we supply more advanced weapons to LDNR that would just lead to more victories of LDNR.
to change the situation US needs to send specialist with the weapons or it will be same shit as in Iraq vs ISIS.

Quote:

Putin has a free reign for a couple of years to take back the former Russian states, nobody will interfere in any meaningful way. As long as the Russian economy can hold on, he might as well continue. He's popular enough from within.

hope you are correct and it will be only a couple of years for him...

what we all tell to each other here now is that hopefull there will not be a War.
#176: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:05 am
    —

Quote:

to change the situation US needs to send specialist with the weapons or it will be same shit as in Iraq vs ISIS.

I see it taking time before even sending Kiev government defensive weapons. The US administration won't even send the Kurds but a fraction of needed supplies and they are the only group thus far to repel the isis attackers and the Kurds have only been sent humanitarian supplies. Israel has supposedly sent them more military supplies than has the US.

I don't see Washington confronting Putin until after the 2016 elections, no spine there and Putin knows it. He'll bluster and use words to delay defensive weapons sent to Kiev for awhile, maybe get none shipped period. What has happened foreign policy wise the last 6y regarding the US is a disgrace.
#177: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Drizzt, Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:59 am
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I think Putin can’t lose his face blatantly abandoning russian people of Ukraine: there is no “URSS” design for what I can understand. Just local nationalism against local nationalism, exploited by “super-powers” in both directions. It's always a matter of nationalism in Europe. I's a really old story.. not a good story. 2016? The same policies, as always.

Drizzt
#178: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima, Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:12 am
    —
But if Ukraine is in state of war with Russia, why do Ukranian passenger planes fly to Russia? Why does Ukraine buy oil, gas and coal from Russia? Why do we have thousands of West Ukranians in Russia hiding from mobilization? Why does Motor-Sich still produce engines for the Russian helicopters?
Is it not strange?
#179: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Drizzt, Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:17 am
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Not sure if you ask me Dima: for how is it the present situation, I agree with you (I have spoken about local nationalism).
My impression is that, after Crimea, some russian people of east Ukraine don't see any kind of reason to don't do the same route as Crimea, and I'm not sure that russian governement, in private, is so happy about this fact. Of course, I don't forget that part of russian reaction (that has brought to Crimea annexion) is a direct consequence of the coup d'etat in Ukraine favoured by western powers to push Nato influence more east.

Drizzt
#180: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima, Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:08 pm
    —

Drizzt wrote (View Post):

Not sure if you ask me Dima: for how is it the present situation, I agree with you (I have spoken about local nationalism).

for most of the Ukranians especially in the West Ukrain, their nationalism ends with mobilization summonses. As after that they drive fast to Russia to work instead of "defending their motherland".
Right now we have around 1 mln refugees from Ukraine. How come if Ukraine has a war with Russia?!

Quote:

My impression is that, after Crimea, some russian people of east Ukraine don't see any kind of reason to don't do the same route as Crimea, and I'm not sure that russian governement, in private, is so happy about this fact. Of course, I don't forget that part of russian reaction (that has brought to Crimea annexion) is a direct consequence of the coup d'etat in Ukraine favoured by western powers to push Nato influence more east.

the Ukranian agency GfK made a poll in Crimea last month http://www.gfk.com/ua/documents/presentations/gfk_report_freecrimea.pdf that shows 82% of Crimeans fully support joining Russia with 11% more generally support so 93% in total.
also from there: 21% got more income after joining Russia, 30% most likely got more income and 35% have same income.

Edit: and a Bloomberg article about this poll http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-02-06/one-year-later-crimeans-prefer-russia
#181: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Drizzt, Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:42 pm
    —
Where I say that they are in war as nations? We agree. I know about refugees.
About how strong it's western ukranian nationalism, it can be you have reason, but there is a difference between who govern the country and the common people. Usually, a strong nationalist minority that lead a nation can make a difference in worse (we hope not). The strong nationalist feeling often arize from a organized minority. Propaganda do the rest after they have taken the power. Anyway, I don't see a real point of discussion: do you like this Ukranian governement (and how it has taken the power)? I think not.

About Crimea, what I should say? I agree. I think it was clear (the first mistake it was the coup d'Etat, Crimea situation it's a reaction, in a certain sense a defensive reaction).

Drizzt
#182: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj, Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:13 pm
    —

Dima wrote (View Post):

But if Ukraine is in state of war with Russia, why do Ukranian passenger planes fly to Russia? Why does Ukraine buy oil, gas and coal from Russia? Why do we have thousands of West Ukranians in Russia hiding from mobilization? Why does Motor-Sich still produce engines for the Russian helicopters?
Is it not strange?

Points well-taken. That epitomizes how this is phony war. If the west or even the Ukraine was serious, then they would suspend all trade/business with Russia. I read some where that U.S. Oil Corporation, do not recall which one, conducted some type of oil deal with Russia despite the sanctions.

It reminds me how British Petroleum and U.S. Big Oil industry negotiated huge deal with Libya's Khaddify despite his regime obvious support for radical islam and the Pan Am tragedy.

Just proves that countless incidents in history are characterized as Political theater. Yet behind closed doors for centuries nations negotiate for $ regardless of the what the alleged disputes are between regimes.
It has nothing to do with politics...it has everything to do with $.
#183: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima, Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:32 pm
    —

dj wrote (View Post):

Points well-taken. That epitomizes how this is phony war. If the west or even the Ukraine was serious, then they would suspend all trade/business with Russia. I read some where that U.S. Oil Corporation, do not recall which one, conducted some type of oil deal with Russia despite the sanctions.

you probably don't know but the US Antares and Atlas-3/5 space rockets are powered by the Russian engines and the last contract for 60 more engines (around USD 1bln) was signed on January 16th 2015.
#184: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj, Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:16 am
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Dima, they just reported on my local news that the Mail Order Bride business in both Russia and Ukraine is thriving industry. Many thousands of Americans are still flying to Russia for Mail Order Brides. So much for the sanctions.
#185: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Stwa, Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 2:33 pm
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I just saw an article at fidelity.com that said Ukraine and Russia had agreed to a ceasfire.

https://news.fidelity.com/news/news.jhtml?articleid=201502120753RTRSNEWSCOMBINED_KBN0LG1KL_1&cat=Top.Investing.RT&IMG=Y
#186: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj, Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 4:48 am
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Perfect now it is safe to return to Russia or Ukraine for Mail Order Brides:

History of the term "mail order brides"
1. American men from eastern lands arrived to reclaim the west coast, achieved considerable financial success, but one thing clouded their lives - the inability to start a family. Very few women lived in those places at that time, so it was extremely difficult for a man to find a spouse. Potential suitors have written letters to churches and private ads published in magazines and newspapers. In turn, women wrote response letters and sent them their photos. Courtship and getting to know each other was through correspondence until she agreed to marry a man whom she had never seen in real life. Many women are pushed to take this step a desire to change your current lifestyle, to find financial prosperity, and just to see how their lives have changed in the new western lands.

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#187: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Stwa, Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:41 am
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Byzantines take on Rus in Macedonia, on their way to Ukraine. (Tribus Sarmatae?)
#188: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: MajorFrank, Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:26 pm
    —
Finland drops depth charges in 'submarine' alert

Ok now the Finnish navy have picked up some signals that point to an unknown entity in Finnish territorial waters. Not necessarily a Russian sub but that's one possibility. Not sure if this is going to be another 'wild goose chase' as was with the Swedes.
#189: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:42 am
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Ok now the Finnish navy have picked up some signals that point to an unknown entity in Finnish territorial waters. Not necessarily a Russian sub but that's one possibility. Not sure if this is going to be another 'wild goose chase' as was with the Swedes.[/quote]

Just chasing more shadows in the media war. Throw enough mud some of it will stick. Some of these countries would be better off sorting out their own internal issues rather than creating something from nothing like the Swedes and the Estonians.
#190: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Tippi-Simo, Location: Helsinki Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:12 pm
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If you want to know what is really stirring the Russian minds is the Kremlin horn.. Gazeta something.. I have posted it here before, but can´t remember it now :O

Never underestimate the power of TV & radio
#191: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 12:17 pm
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Never underestimate the power of TV & radio [/quote]

Yes it can be a great weapon on it's own. Just like how 90pc of all US media is owned by three Multinational Corporations. The very same who get the lions share of Defense and Reconstruction contracts.
#192: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj, Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 3:28 pm
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Multinational corporations not only own the US Media, but they use their own $ to directly influence political officials & write their laws or trade treaties. They do not have to disclose their political donations either so it can be kept a secret to the public.
#193: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Sat May 02, 2015 12:45 am
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dj wrote (View Post):

Multinational corporations not only own the US Media, but they use their own $ to directly influence political officials & write their laws or trade treaties. They do not have to disclose their political donations either so it can be kept a secret to the public.

..........and that's a democracy.

Funny enough as time goes on more information appears to be coming to light on who helped the coup in the Ukraine. A Polish MP last week exposed how their country helped train the snipers who happened to shoot both Police and protesters. He says this was done on behalf of the CIA. Video footage of the Right Sector guys leave a Hotel a day after the last of the shootings clearly carrying gun bags. Then top top it off, another video prior to the coup of a Ukraine MP in the House fore telling exacting what was about to happen and how US Ambassador ( Geoffrey R. Pyatt ) in Kiev was running meetings for those to topple the then Govt. Also Chevron suggesting a change in Govt would bring US dollars - Ukraine Oil's now 2ic - Joe Bidens son.

Looking forward to the release if ever of the findings of MH17. Sadly all I can see will be excuses why they can't pin point anyone country or people.
#194: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima, Posted: Sun May 03, 2015 12:42 am
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Surprisingly Russia is doing quite ok nowadays but the federal budget is suffering from Ruble got much stronger in last months as budget is made with 61 RUR/USD.

The producers aimed for local market are doing much better than 1 year ago as even with 50 RUR against USD it's profitable to produce in Russia instead of importing goods from say Poland. Was not with the rate of 30 RUR to 1 USD.

The exporters are having Golden age .

Most likely the RUR will go down next months but that will only help the goverment to get more income trading natural resources. Otherwise there will be a lot of problems for the goverment fullfilling their obligations.
#195: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: US_Brake, Location: USA Posted: Sun May 03, 2015 10:25 pm
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Finnish military preparing 900,000 reservists for 'crisis situation'

http://europe.newsweek.com/finish-military-preparing-900000-reservists-crisis-situation-326712
#196: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Mon May 04, 2015 12:42 am
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[quote="US_Brake";p="80317"]Finnish military preparing 900,000 reservists for 'crisis situation'

Another over reaction ( this time by Finland ) based on what - no proof just more accusations.
#197: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: MajorFrank, Posted: Tue May 05, 2015 7:28 pm
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US_Brake wrote (View Post):

Finnish military preparing 900,000 reservists for 'crisis situation'

http://europe.newsweek.com/finish-military-preparing-900000-reservists-crisis-situation-326712

The sending of this letter isn't connected to the recent events, the possible submarine sighting or the Ukraine trouble. It was planned to send this letter to Finnish reservists already in 2011 I think. So it's the media blowing this up and making it something it isn't.

I will get one of these letters too, I wish I could tell you guys what's in it but my lips (and fingers) are sealed. You see it's top secret.
#198: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: US_Brake, Location: USA Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 7:40 pm
    —
Former top Russian general: Russia will defend eastern Ukraine, even if it means taking Kiev

dramatic headline from Vox story today.

http://www.vox.com/2015/5/7/8566035/former-top-russian-general-russia-will-defend-eastern-ukraine-even-if

Phony war or is Putin marching on Keiv in 2015?

----------------------------------------------------
Wargaming Russia's Military Options in Ukraine

https://youtu.be/LCMn-WDTIf8
#199: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: US_Brake, Location: USA Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 9:05 pm
    —
Russia Unveils Its Groundbreaking New Tank

https://youtu.be/X-jxwQ4K5ZI

Russia's T-14 Armata Main Battle Tank Concept

https://youtu.be/OKlKZ1idRcQ

A.jpg

Description:

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Viewed: 313 Time(s)

#200: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima, Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 10:26 pm
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No worries, these tanks are not aimed against NATO as there are 1.500 IBR aimed instead with 45.000 warheads
#201: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: US_Brake, Location: USA Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 10:52 pm
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May the best drones win
#202: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima, Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 11:02 pm
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US_Brake wrote (View Post):

May the best drones win

pray for it
#203: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima, Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 11:05 pm
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Thing is most of the armies have forgotten how to act against the army and not the insurgents.
Somehow the US drones are just falling aground when anti-drone measures are working in Donbass
#204: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 5:26 am
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Dima wrote (View Post):

Thing is most of the armies have forgotten how to act against the army and not the insurgents.
Somehow the US drones are just falling aground when anti-drone measures are working in Donbass

........and Iran. They are producing US styled drones from captured ones flying over their air space.
#205: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: US_Brake, Location: USA Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 6:55 am
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Sod you should really consider teaching Political History at Kim Il-sung Military University.

Or better yet, a reality TV show called I am not Russian.
#206: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 8:33 am
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US_Brake wrote (View Post):

Sod you should really consider teaching Political History at Kim Il-sung Military University.

Or better yet, a reality TV show called I am not Russian.

Or maybe I could just be a gullible person who believes all the propaganda put out for the weak and naive. In other words for those who never question but believe the comic book history at present. For some reason you seem to think only one side tells the truth - truth is the first casualty of war. By saying I'm not Russian, I try to easy the paranoia of many others whom this affliction affects that anyone with a different view is a Russian on these issues. Calm down and use facts and not school boy rants might help you. Try not to write through emotion as it clouds your better judgement.

Last edited by sod98 on Wed May 13, 2015 1:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
#207: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: US_Brake, Location: USA Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 4:47 pm
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My President said it best in his speech last September. I agree with him and the US policy.

“Russian aggression in Europe recalls the days when large nations trampled small ones in pursuit of territorial ambition" - President Barack Obama

https://youtu.be/xiI6crx4Z9k
#208: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj, Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 5:25 pm
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Yes how is America always guilty when Russia is the one that seized Crimea and was caught on satellites aiding the pro-Russian factions? We have done some stupid policies with Imperialist Presidents of our own...but we are the ones seeking Peace. If Mitt Romney got elected he would have already pushed the Nuke button. The war hawks are hard-up to start another war but they lost the last 2 elections. No need to blame America for all the world's problems. Other nations are accountable. How many times has Ukraine and Poland been carved up and invaded over the centuries? That was not America that did that either.
#209: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 10:45 am
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dj wrote (View Post):

Yes how is America always guilty when Russia is the one that seized Crimea and was caught on satellites aiding the pro-Russian factions? We have done some stupid policies with Imperialist Presidents of our own...but we are the ones seeking Peace. If Mitt Romney got elected he would have already pushed the Nuke button. The war hawks are hard-up to start another war but they lost the last 2 elections. No need to blame America for all the world's problems. Other nations are accountable. How many times has Ukraine and Poland been carved up and invaded over the centuries? That was not America that did that either.

The carving up of Poland etc changed after WW1 when the laws of conquest were changed. It didn't stop the Allies in WW2 redrawing borders post WW2 though.

73 countries attacked since WW2 by the USA says that you are wrong that USA is a country providing peace. The only peace it wants is a piece of other countries assets and resources - oil etc.

Yes Russia is in the East Ukraine but not as Russian Forces. How - like GB was during Vietnam when 2000 soldiers served in Australian and NZ armies. Russia was invited into Afghanistan by the Sovereign Govt at the time. Russia was asked by Sth Ossetia to help against invading Georgian Armies - Mikheil Saakashvili - now wanted by Interpol over corruption in leading his country to war and misleading by Georgia its self. Russia is no angel but compare this to USA who always plays away from home - 73 countries.

USA is no more seeking peace than than any other Emperialistic countries as Wall St etc were referring to US no more than 2 years ago - Empire USA. USA aided and trained Al Nusra, ISIS and FSA rebels in Jordan, Qatar and Saudi A. Reuters ran an article nearly a year ago before ISIS came to fame in Iraq. It showed pics of US Senator John McCain posing with fighters. GB informed US Govt that Al Nusra were a branch of Al Qeada. ISIS according to the article were trained solely for Syria. Further article in Reuters says ISIS found easier pickings in Iraq. USA number 1 Military weapons supplier for the last 10 years plus. Has installed and backed more dictatorships than the rest of the world since WW2 - even Saddam. USA undermines eco and polit sovereign countries - Venezuela, spies on Allies and citizens, uses drones to kill in sovereign countries - Pakistan, coverups of media and civilian deaths, illegally detains and imprisons, sell to both sides in some conflicits - Sudan good business sense. Tortures, assassinates, illegally bombs - Syria ans illegally invades countries - Iraq plus much more
Check out Youtube video. It is a fore tale of events to come at the time in Kiev and Ukraine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9hOl8TuBUM

Ukraine oil 2ic Joe Bidens son. US Ambassador to Ukraine holding tech camps to overthrow Ukraine Govt. Nuland in Kev speaking of a coup. Chevron Oil openly stating a change in Govt would bring US investment dollars. CIA Fish head post coup stating he had lost 20 Greystone ( Blackwater ) Operatives in Kiev. USA still to date denies involvement - yeah right.

Much more to add but Game of Thrones then Total War Attila awaits.
#210: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Stwa, Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 2:36 am
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dj wrote (View Post):

If Mitt Romney got elected he would have already pushed the Nuke button.

But Obama got elected and he pushed the GAY button and the ISIS button ... and the NSA button ... and the TSA button ... and the DHS button ... and the fake Sandy Hook button ... etc.

Link

#211: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj, Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 2:58 am
    —

sod98 wrote (View Post):

dj wrote (View Post):

Yes how is America always guilty when Russia is the one that seized Crimea and was caught on satellites aiding the pro-Russian factions? We have done some stupid policies with Imperialist Presidents of our own...but we are the ones seeking Peace. If Mitt Romney got elected he would have already pushed the Nuke button. The war hawks are hard-up to start another war but they lost the last 2 elections. No need to blame America for all the world's problems. Other nations are accountable. How many times has Ukraine and Poland been carved up and invaded over the centuries? That was not America that did that either.

The carving up of Poland etc changed after WW1 when the laws of conquest were changed. It didn't stop the Allies in WW2 redrawing borders post WW2 though.

73 countries attacked since WW2 by the USA says that you are wrong that USA is a country providing peace. The only peace it wants is a piece of other countries assets and resources - oil etc.

Yes Russia is in the East Ukraine but not as Russian Forces. How - like GB was during Vietnam when 2000 soldiers served in Australian and NZ armies. Russia was invited into Afghanistan by the Sovereign Govt at the time. Russia was asked by Sth Ossetia to help against invading Georgian Armies - Mikheil Saakashvili - now wanted by Interpol over corruption in leading his country to war and misleading by Georgia its self. Russia is no angel but compare this to USA who always plays away from home - 73 countries.

USA is no more seeking peace than than any other Emperialistic countries as Wall St etc were referring to US no more than 2 years ago - Empire USA. USA aided and trained Al Nusra, ISIS and FSA rebels in Jordan, Qatar and Saudi A. Reuters ran an article nearly a year ago before ISIS came to fame in Iraq. It showed pics of US Senator John McCain posing with fighters. GB informed US Govt that Al Nusra were a branch of Al Qeada. ISIS according to the article were trained solely for Syria. Further article in Reuters says ISIS found easier pickings in Iraq. USA number 1 Military weapons supplier for the last 10 years plus. Has installed and backed more dictatorships than the rest of the world since WW2 - even Saddam. USA undermines eco and polit sovereign countries - Venezuela, spies on Allies and citizens, uses drones to kill in sovereign countries - Pakistan, coverups of media and civilian deaths, illegally detains and imprisons, sell to both sides in some conflicits - Sudan good business sense. Tortures, assassinates, illegally bombs - Syria ans illegally invades countries - Iraq plus much more
Check out Youtube video. It is a fore tale of events to come at the time in Kiev and Ukraine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9hOl8TuBUM

Ukraine oil 2ic Joe Bidens son. US Ambassador to Ukraine holding tech camps to overthrow Ukraine Govt. Nuland in Kev speaking of a coup. Chevron Oil openly stating a change in Govt would bring US investment dollars. CIA Fish head post coup stating he had lost 20 Greystone ( Blackwater ) Operatives in Kiev. USA still to date denies involvement - yeah right.

Much more to add but Game of Thrones then Total War Attila awaits.

You are obviously a hater of US no matter what the facts are. What country has US invaded lately? If you're talking drone strikes that is not really a valid argument. Iran is aiding Yemen. Nobody is complaining about that.

Although I agree about the mishaps with ISIS. That does appear to be McCain with one of their thugs. Also today the media (Seymour Hersh) exposed lies about the Bin Laden raid. Pakistani intelligence had informant whom tipped us off. They knew he was there since 2006. The Govt got caught in lies but that is standard in the world of Intel and warfare. They also lied what happened with his body. Our govt is seriously confused about how to deal with Islamist factions. We had no business even considering arming gangster thugs in Syria. And Iraq was a train wreck. If Saddam was still in power there would be no ISIS in the first place. One Trillion $ down the drain for nothing.
#212: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 5:47 am
    —
You are obviously a hater of US no matter what the facts are. What country has US invaded lately? If you're talking drone strikes that is not really a valid argument. Iran is aiding Yemen. Nobody is complaining about that.

I don't hate the USA anymore than I like Russia. But it's about the truth and not fudging things to fool your populous. I like how you push the blame as to how I am a US hater rather than confront the truth - 73 countries attacked. What countries have the US invaded lately - Iraq, Somalia and Afghanistan. Remember Al Qeada were based in Afghanistan not running it. Then there is the illegal attacks on Syria, Libya, aiding the Arab Spring etc. Iran is now aiding the rebels in Yemen. But your media purposely and falsely forgot that the Houthis were ridding themselves of a Saudi backed dicitatorship. It's not a sectarian conflict but a largely united one against the Govt. They have been fighting ISIS there before Western interest was aroused. Notice how Saudi Arabia hasn't bombed ISIS in Yemen. It hasn't gone unnoticed by Euro media. Iran to start with wasn't in Yemen but was another smoke screen to justify Saudi aggression to support their puppet Govt in Yemen.

Now the US has the fall out from Investigative Journalist Seymour Hersh's claims of US / Paki lies over Bin Laden incident. Remember Hersh exposed My Lai, Abu Ghab, Noriega etc. So this guy is very good at his job. Your Govt's Foreign Policy is what I don't like, not the US or any US citizen. Paranoia sadly creates this notion that people dislike the US but that is wrong. Maybe with the fallout over this incident, just maybe it will change attitudes at home in the US. It won't change your Govt's as there is too much money to be made from death.

Last edited by sod98 on Wed May 13, 2015 11:22 am; edited 1 time in total
#213: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: US_Brake, Location: USA Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 8:19 am
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Seymour Hersh is flat wrong about the bin laden mission his story is BS. But his career is on the upswing now. CNN was happy to spin the story as "Obama is a Liar." They got their ratings. This is Republican campaign strategy smoke and mirrors swift-boat style. If it smells like Bush family politricks at work again? It is. Republicans are desperate to regain power but it will be 16-20 years before any Republican will be elected President again. Obama's critics use every foreign policy conspiracy theory they find (or invent) and the US right wing and US critics eat it up.

What has been President Obama's top 5 foreign policy blunders? I don't know of any.

His diplomacy and military leadership has been outstanding. The President communicates US policy effectively and has repeatedly shown wisdom, and restraint while wielding US power to help solve problems in the world in a thoughtful and intelligent way. His success as Commander-in-chief and the success of the CIA and military against al qaeda has been a major achievement that every American and American allie should celebrate.
#214: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 9:09 am
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What has been President Obama's top 5 foreign policy blunders? I don't know of any.

1. Promise to close down Gitmo concentration camp 6 years ago.
2. Aiding the Arab Spring - Syria, Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Iraq and many others.
3. Lying about US backing of Ukraine coup - US Ambassador running " tech camps " prior to coup etc.
4. Aiding and training of Al Nusra - branch of Al Qeada, ISIS and FSA at camps in ME and lying again - Reuters approx 12 mths ago.
5. Orchestrated lies over Assad use of Sarin gas so US can bomb Syria - doing it now anyway - Crime against Humanity. Venezuela and destabilizing their Govt for Oil.

6. The very embarrassing Bin Laden saga. This Investigative Journo is very well known for his accuracy before going public. Good bye many times failed US Foreign Policy.

Burying your head in the sand won't make the problem go away. It will just draw more flies to the sh-t. In fairness to Obama, it doesn't matter Repub or Democrat, Obama, Clinton, Bush or who ever. They are just figure heads as your Foreign policy since WW2 hasn't changed - 73 countries attacked. World opinion is starting to wise up to it also - United Fakes of America.

Obama Administration has charged 8 " Whistleblowers " now. That is worse than all previous US Administrations put together. Emphasising US need to hide it's illegal activities - drone kills, media and civilian death coverups, torture, spying on Allies and citizens, assassinations, invasions and bombings of sovereign countries, install and backing of dictatorships, undermining economically and politically countries, Govt backed espionage upon Foreign commerce, US Military blunders - ( blue on blues, fake operations ), aiding and training terrorist groups and many other such things.

Freedom of speech is nothing. Freedom to ask questions is everything.
#215: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: US_Brake, Location: USA Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 6:27 pm
    —
BUK Missile System CATCHES FIRE At Russian Victory Day Parade

https://youtu.be/1tMvBFgnmY8

T-14 Armata Russian "Super Tank" BREAKS DOWN During Military Parade Rehearsal In Moscow

https://youtu.be/kFoikbucn2Y

Last edited by US_Brake on Thu May 14, 2015 12:00 am; edited 1 time in total
#216: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima, Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 10:43 pm
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US_Brake wrote (View Post):

T-14 Armata Russian "Super Tank" BREAKS DOWN During Military Parade In Moscow
https://youtu.be/kFoikbucn2Y

that was a rehearsal on May 7th. Nothing happend during the Parade.
#217: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 6:20 am
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March 2015 - A major vulnerability that allowed French submarine to “sink” aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt and most of its escort during drills was apparently revealed by the French Navy and Defense Ministry in blogposts that were quickly wiped out.

The exercise was meant to be straight forward for the Battle group to take out the very old and out of date French sub. After the exercise the US Govt and Navy asked ( more like pleaded ) to remove any media releases and forget this debacle. Too late French media and then the Brit's published the drubbing.

There is a story going around that the US Navy wants to buy that very sub for testing ? The French have apparently said they will gladly sell it in a few years time. Just goes to show that not all new tech is better and certainly not in the examples given.
#218: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima, Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 9:47 pm
    —

US_Brake wrote (View Post):

My President said it best in his speech last September. I agree with him and the US policy.
“Russian aggression in Europe recalls the days when large nations trampled small ones in pursuit of territorial ambition" - President Barack Obama
https://youtu.be/xiI6crx4Z9k

That's a lesson for your President that when you make an anti-Russian coup in a country bordering with Russia you are should expect the retaliation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G93SlyJIQSg
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/02/17/us-eu-paying-ukrainian-rioters-protesters-paul-craig-roberts/
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article37599.htm
http://www.globalresearch.ca/how-and-why-the-u-s-government-aided-a-coup-led-by-neo-nazis-in-ukraine/5371940

But did he say anything about US agression in Middle East and North Africa?
#219: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: US_Brake, Location: USA Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 11:30 pm
    —
In 2014, Russian President Vladimir Putin seized Crimea, fomenting conflict in eastern Ukraine. In this Brookings Essay, Chrystia Freeland details Ukraine’s efforts to maintain its sovereignty.

The Ukraine
#220: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima, Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 11:32 pm
    —

US_Brake wrote (View Post):

In 2014, Russian President Vladimir Putin seized Crimea, fomenting conflict in eastern Ukraine. In this Brookings Essay, Chrystia Freeland details Ukraine’s efforts to maintain its sovereignty.
The Ukraine

That's a lesson for your President that when you make an anti-Russian coup in a country bordering with Russia you are should expect the retaliation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G93SlyJIQSg
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/02/17/us-eu-paying-ukrainian-rioters-protesters-paul-craig-roberts/
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article37599.htm
http://www.globalresearch.ca/how-and-why-the-u-s-government-aided-a-coup-led-by-neo-nazis-in-ukraine/5371940
#221: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj, Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 2:17 am
    —
Strange articles with sources that don't even appear to be real. Anybody can post a blog online and develop an alias or spin statements around to make an argument. One of your articles compares Obama admin to the Neo-Conservatives build-up to the Iraq war in 2003. What War has Obama started?

And funniest quote was "War-mongers like John Kerry" . Fox News clones would laugh at that.
#222: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 6:10 am
    —
If the Ukraine was worried about it's sovereignty then maybe they should have questioned why was Nuland and Chevron Oil both openly suggesting a change in Govt would bring investment dollars. Why did US Ambassador to Kiev - Geoffrey R. Pyatt hold Tech Camps last last being 14th & 15th Nov 2013 to overthrow Ukraine Govt. Greystone in Kiev prior to the coup - Greystone fmr - Blackwater. Greystone primarily protects US Assets. Joe Bidens son now 2ic of Ukraine Oil. Polish MP recently admitted that Poland trained the snipers for the Maidan on behalf of the CIA. Some NATO countries have their greedy prints all over this incident.

Yes Russia took back Crimea and have backed the Rebels. But in comparison to the continued whittling down of countries around Russia expect them to bite back at sometime. Remember no former Warsaw Pact countries are meant to be able to join Nato - Glasnost and Perestroika. NATO is only meant to act in defence of a member state not create others.
#223: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Captain-Insano, Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 7:39 pm
    —

US_Brake wrote (View Post):

Seymour Hersh is flat wrong about the bin laden mission his story is BS. But his career is on the upswing now. CNN was happy to spin the story as "Obama is a Liar." They got their ratings. This is Republican campaign strategy smoke and mirrors swift-boat style. If it smells like Bush family politricks at work again? It is. Republicans are desperate to regain power but it will be 16-20 years before any Republican will be elected President again. Obama's critics use every foreign policy conspiracy theory they find (or invent) and the US right wing and US critics eat it up.

What has been President Obama's top 5 foreign policy blunders? I don't know of any.

His diplomacy and military leadership has been outstanding. The President communicates US policy effectively and has repeatedly shown wisdom, and restraint while wielding US power to help solve problems in the world in a thoughtful and intelligent way. His success as Commander-in-chief and the success of the CIA and military against al qaeda has been a major achievement that every American and American allie should celebrate.

Hersh was spot on about the whole 911 narrative it was a complete fairytale beginning to end, and all obama does is read the teleprompter just as Grimace would if they rolled him out there for the media. The latest whistleblower to detail US government involvement in terrorism is David Steele, a 20-year Marine Corps intelligence officer, and the second-highest-ranking civilian in the U.S. Marine Corps Intelligence. He is a former CIA clandestine services case officer, and this is what he had to say:

“Most terrorists are false flag terrorists, or are created by our own security services. In the United States, every single terrorist incident we have had has been a false flag, or has been an informant pushed on by the FBI. In fact, we now have citizens taking out restraining orders against FBI informants that are trying to incite terrorism. We’ve become a lunatic asylum.” You can watch the whole interview here RTThe Steele interview starts at about 12:23 but i suggest you watch the whole show. I know RT is funded by the Russian government but it is a great place to get information on the corruption of the US government but not the corruption of the Russian government. Here is Hillary talking about RT and losing the infowar. RT If you don't trust RT here is the nytimes reporting about fbi involvement in terrorism. NYTIMES

Off topic my post drumming up support for my TLD public campaign at gameranger was deleted for some reason, I'm still waiting for an explanation CCS.
#224: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj, Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 8:31 pm
    —
Not sure what to make of Hersh. I think he brought up some interesting points but it is essentially impossible to fact-check because he uses secret undisclosed sources. He blames Obama for using Bin Laden as political advantage.
Duh? What was Iraq all about? Not 9/11 but they hedged and took advantage of that situation too. All I know is America is turning into a Stalinist Police-State like the Gulags with for-profit Prison corporations. Google the "cash for kids" scandal in Pennsylvania, it's disgusting. Mexican-American U.S. Citizen whose father was Vietnam Vet ended up in ICE detention prison for over 1 year due to "clerical error", while the for-profit corporation bilks taxpayers for $.

@Sod - you're conflating facts. Just because Chevron and other American business interests are sending $ and negotiating trade deals does not equate to U.S. Govt conspiracy to invade Ukraine. The Ukraine govt is free to make their own decisions. Last time I checked we don't have boots on ground. Also point fingers all you want but FACT, the Baltic states have asked for military assistance, not vice versa. The articles Dima cites also blames Germany and accuses them of trying to form a Fourth Reich, etc. Completely pie in the sky.
#225: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 9:02 pm
    —

dj wrote (View Post):

Not sure what to make of Hersh. I think he brought up some interesting points but it is essentially impossible to fact-check because he uses secret undisclosed sources. He blames Obama for using Bin Laden as political advantage.
Duh? What was Iraq all about? Not 9/11 but they hedged and took advantage of that situation too. All I know is America is turning into a Stalinist Police-State like the Gulags with for-profit Prison corporations. Google the "cash for kids" scandal in Pennsylvania, it's disgusting. Mexican-American U.S. Citizen whose father was Vietnam Vet ended up in ICE detention prison for over 1 year due to "clerical error", while the for-profit corporation bilks taxpayers for $.

@Sod - you're conflating facts. Just because Chevron and other American business interests are sending $ and negotiating trade deals does not equate to U.S. Govt conspiracy to invade Ukraine. The Ukraine govt is free to make their own decisions. Last time I checked we don't have boots on ground. Also point fingers all you want but FACT, the Baltic states have asked for military assistance, not vice versa. The articles Dima cites also blames Germany and accuses them of trying to form a Fourth Reich, etc. Completely pie in the sky.

These so called trade deals where " change your Govt for dollars". The new Ukraine Govt was still almost made up of the old Govt members. The meetings at the US Embassy and the request for a change in Govt happened prior to the coup. A video exists of a Ukraine MP divulging the plan of the coup weeks, maybe months before it happened and who was involved - US Ambassador to Ukraine. I'm pretty sure the US hasn't had countries send Ambassadors to it's country recently envoking civil unrest for dollars, running coup camps, inserting Merc's and training snipers etc.

You talk of the Batic states and facts. What is Russia doing to these countries - evidence - none exists. That said, there is clear evidence you have ignored sanctions on Russia over their backing of Rebels. Any sanctions on USA over Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Libya, Sth Sudan, Venezuela and the list keeps going. There is now at least two documentaries that exist, filmed by independant groups - Western European. Both doco's concluded outside influences - Nuland, Oil companies, CIA etc. Also I have never said US troops on the ground in Ukraine and not responsible for what others say. Some of the former Warsaw Pact countries now have puppet govts backed by the US. they are anti - Russian at best and are experiencing a rise in nationalism / fascism - Ukraine, Estonia, Latvia etc. Not sure if your media shows the marches in Ukraine of the Right Sector - Azov Brigade - Das Reich symbol as their symbol. There is far more to this conflict than what you appear to know and would only guess that your media doesn't give both sides of the story. If your media is US, I'm not surprised with 90pc of all US media owned by 6 Mutli Nat Corp's. The same 3 parent companies that receive the Lions share of all Military and reconstruction deals - Iraq, Afghanistan etc - conflict of interest.

Last edited by sod98 on Thu Jun 04, 2015 8:54 am; edited 3 times in total
#226: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima, Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 11:12 pm
    —

Quote:

The articles Dima cites also blames Germany and accuses them of trying to form a Fourth Reich, etc. Completely pie in the sky.

haha, don't you see that's happening?! Who is the leader of the EU getting other around it?
#227: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 10:54 am
    —

Dima wrote (View Post):

Quote:

The articles Dima cites also blames Germany and accuses them of trying to form a Fourth Reich, etc. Completely pie in the sky.

haha, don't you see that's happening?! Who is the leader of the EU getting other around it?

Well the EU is totally dominated by Germany. Germany is part of the constant attacks upon Russia and legitimized the coup in the Ukraine.
#228: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Flaggellumdei, Location: Sweden Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 3:08 pm
    —
Boris Nemtsov, there is a Russian hero.
#229: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 5:26 am
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Flaggellumdei wrote (View Post):

Boris Nemtsov, there is a Russian hero.

I guess hero is a word used too easily these days then.
#230: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj, Posted: Wed May 20, 2015 5:12 am
    —
Russian gangsters "thieves in law" have been quiet these days. In America we had huge Motorcycle gangster war, with 9 people killed and 200 arrested. Russian govt must be cracking down on the gangs. In America they are growing stronger, Jails are full the max, no more space.
#231: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Wed May 20, 2015 8:04 am
    —

dj wrote (View Post):

Russian gangsters "thieves in law" have been quiet these days. In America we had huge Motorcycle gangster war, with 9 people killed and 200 arrested. Russian govt must be cracking down on the gangs. In America they are growing stronger, Jails are full the max, no more space.

In Russia the crims are given very special jobs - mine clearance. Shoulder to shoulder walking across fields. Saves taxs and keeps prisons clear.
#232: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Tippi-Simo, Location: Helsinki Posted: Wed May 20, 2015 3:47 pm
    —

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

US_Brake wrote (View Post):

Finnish military preparing 900,000 reservists for 'crisis situation'

http://europe.newsweek.com/finish-military-preparing-900000-reservists-crisis-situation-326712

The sending of this letter isn't connected to the recent events, the possible submarine sighting or the Ukraine trouble. It was planned to send this letter to Finnish reservists already in 2011 I think. So it's the media blowing this up and making it something it isn't.

I will get one of these letters too, I wish I could tell you guys what's in it but my lips (and fingers) are sealed. You see it's top secret.

Oh yeah baby, lock ´n load!

Of corse we have nothing to worry about.. Russia is always peaceful
#233: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Flaggellumdei, Location: Sweden Posted: Wed May 20, 2015 4:12 pm
    —
Anyone who dies trying to tell the truth is a hero. In Russia there are many heroes.
#234: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Thu May 21, 2015 6:04 am
    —

Flaggellumdei wrote (View Post):

Anyone who dies trying to tell the truth is a hero. In Russia there are many heroes.

Nazi Germany did kill many Russians / Soviets in WW2 .That's the difference. In the west we often are told lies as the truth.Fake heroes and all, some of which have won medals. Just have to looking at WMD's in Iraq, Assad use of Sarin Gas etc - all lies and the Wests media reported verbatim Govt releases as truth. How many hundreds of thousands have died since.

I guess Greenwald, Assange and Snowden must be heroes then for exposing corrupt and aggressive countries. They just haven't died yet but their nemesis will be working on that.
#235: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: US_Brake, Location: USA Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 4:22 am
    —
The most spectacular Russian military failures of all time

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-most-embarrassing-russian-military-failures-2015-5?op=1&utm_content=bufferc6ac5&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer
#236: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 12:03 pm
    —
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-most-embarrassing-russian-military-failures-2015-5?op=1&utm_content=bufferc6ac5&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer[/quote]

I think they also forgot Afghanistan. That in it's self was pretty massive. Also the use of the lower 22 caliber over the 30 caliber ( 5.56 from the 7.62 ). The theory that wounding enemy would create greater impact on enemy resources. Of course that was wrong.

The West also fell for the smaller round and still does use it. The Wests disasters are pretty much up there. i couldn't find a site on the net so I just listed a few.

3 recent lost conflicts to peasant militias - Somalia, Afghanistan and Iraq ( pos twice with the ISIS in Iraq ), the F35 Flying Brick, Bay of Pig - Cuba, Vietnam and the M16, helicopter crash while trying to rescue Iranian held hostages, 3 x panic attacks that almost lead to US using nukes in Cold War, being fooled by Saddam in the 1st Gulf War over his Rep Guards, fooled into training ISIS and Al Nusra terrorists if that was a mistake, training the fore runner to Al Qeada then have them come back and use skills on the West, backing the coup openly in Venezuela hours before the Chavez supporters retakes power, use of concentration camps and torture - Gitmo and Abu Ghraib etc, inviting world media to Tora Bora as it was captured by US Special forces - only to be thrown out by Al Qeada and have the Brits SAS do the job, have the Brit's teach US forces how to do night patrols in Iraq as they had lost their confidence, having the Russians teach Iraq insurgents how to use cheap parachute grenades to knockout M1A1 tanks easily,old French sub sinking most of a very modern US battle group in an exercise off Florida and then trying to cover it up - too late and I'm sure there is many others.
#237: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima, Posted: Sun May 24, 2015 4:38 am
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Flaggellumdei wrote (View Post):

Anyone who dies trying to tell the truth is a hero. In Russia there are many heroes.

ok, there are 20 coffins of RA marines came from Debaltsevo area to Kaliningrad region - am I a hero?
#238: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Sun May 24, 2015 8:19 am
    —

Dima wrote (View Post):

Flaggellumdei wrote (View Post):

Anyone who dies trying to tell the truth is a hero. In Russia there are many heroes.

ok, there are 20 coffins of RA marines came from Debaltsevo area to Kaliningrad region - am I a hero?

Good point.
#239: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Tippi-Simo, Location: Helsinki Posted: Sun May 24, 2015 7:37 pm
    —

Dima wrote (View Post):

Flaggellumdei wrote (View Post):

Anyone who dies trying to tell the truth is a hero. In Russia there are many heroes.

ok, there are 20 coffins of RA marines came from Debaltsevo area to Kaliningrad region - am I a hero?

Yes you are. You are the hero of all CCSers <3
#240: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima, Posted: Sun May 24, 2015 7:58 pm
    —

Tippi-Simo wrote (View Post):

Dima wrote (View Post):

Flaggellumdei wrote (View Post):

Anyone who dies trying to tell the truth is a hero. In Russia there are many heroes.

ok, there are 20 coffins of RA marines came from Debaltsevo area to Kaliningrad region - am I a hero?

Yes you are. You are the hero of all CCSers <3

haha mate, come to Kaliningrad again
I've bought 2 new cars to drive you around .
#241: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Tippi-Simo, Location: Helsinki Posted: Sun May 24, 2015 8:45 pm
    —

Dima wrote (View Post):

Tippi-Simo wrote (View Post):

Dima wrote (View Post):

Flaggellumdei wrote (View Post):

Anyone who dies trying to tell the truth is a hero. In Russia there are many heroes.

ok, there are 20 coffins of RA marines came from Debaltsevo area to Kaliningrad region - am I a hero?

Yes you are. You are the hero of all CCSers <3

haha mate, come to Kaliningrad again
I've bought 2 new cars to drive you around .

Offtopic, but yes, next Friday going to apply for a visa
#242: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima, Posted: Sun May 24, 2015 10:39 pm
    —

Tippi-Simo wrote (View Post):

Dima wrote (View Post):

Tippi-Simo wrote (View Post):

Dima wrote (View Post):

Flaggellumdei wrote (View Post):

Anyone who dies trying to tell the truth is a hero. In Russia there are many heroes.

ok, there are 20 coffins of RA marines came from Debaltsevo area to Kaliningrad region - am I a hero?

Yes you are. You are the hero of all CCSers <3

haha mate, come to Kaliningrad again
I've bought 2 new cars to drive you around .

Offtopic, but yes, next Friday going to apply for a visa

Let me know if you need an Invitation or any support .
And let me know if you decide to come to Kaliningrad again
#243: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj, Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 6:14 am
    —

sod98 wrote (View Post):

Dima wrote (View Post):

Quote:

The articles Dima cites also blames Germany and accuses them of trying to form a Fourth Reich, etc. Completely pie in the sky.

haha, don't you see that's happening?! Who is the leader of the EU getting other around it?

Well the EU is totally dominated by Germany. Germany is part of the constant attacks upon Russia and legitimized the coup in the Ukraine.

This is rubbish. I know a lot of Europeans are haters of Germany simply because they have strong involvement in EU. Some Hungarian I work with says the same thing and blames Germany for problems in Greece. It is not Germany's fault Greece has crap economy. Germany leads EU for a very good reason, they have dominate economy, education and standard of living for its citizens. Germany has developed the first large city that is 100% self-sufficient with renewable energy, totally off the grid with Solar and other sources. 20 years ago it had to absorb East Germany in shambles after Soviet Union withdrew and now they are dominating the economy in EU. It has nothing to do with these allegations that they are attempting sinister 4th Reich and trying to secretly conspire with US against Russia. That is total bullshit. Germany spends only a tiny fraction of the Defence budgets of Russia or US.
They invest their $ into education and modern energy and infrastructure instead of corrupt Defence military-industrial complex.
#244: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 7:48 am
    —
DJ - I don't think Germany is aiding USA either or anything to do with a 4th Reich. But one thing I do believe is that Germany does dominate the EU because of it's very strong economic and Industrial base. That's not a fault with Germany. It is however a fault with Democracy - two wolves and a lamb deciding what to eat for lunch. Germany is in a Economic Community but is just looking out for themselves forsaking all others - Greece, Italy Spain etc. Keeping in mind Germany was also helped bu Western Powers post WW2 while victim countries right throughout Europe were mostly forgotten.

EU will only ever benefit the big boys - Germany and France. One of the many reasons GB hasn't gone over to the Euro Dollar. Also why Turkey won't follow suit. Germany will get stronger off the backs of the weaker countries. Maybe Germany should pay back some of their war debts to countries as a sign of good will - it's over due.

Last edited by sod98 on Sat May 30, 2015 11:51 am; edited 1 time in total
#245: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: notprop, Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 9:42 am
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As a Briton I have never heard anyone suggest Germany conspires to do anything like the above. I actually find the idea that Germany would want Russia to annexe Ukraine or even just Crimea preposterous. From my seat I see Germany wanting nothing more than stability for the Eurozone area, an aggressive Russia next door would be the antithesis of this.

Far from hating on Germany I don't know any Europeans that has a negative view of them as a nation, my office well represented by Poles, a Czech, Austrians and not a few Yeoman Brits.

As for Germany dominating the Eurozone, well of course this is the case. Germany with France represents the most populous and prosperous areas of that economic zone. The disadvantage of an arrangement such as the Euro is that it will inevitably pull toward the main member counties as they effectively are reinforcing other smaller economies. Greece was happy to suck up Euro's fro this economic block, they really can't get upset when they get called on pissing it up the wall. I still think that the best thing the EU could do is cut Greece loose as a warning to other nations against defaulting their agreements and responsibilities. To be fair to Greece though they are at least towing the line now so we shall see. Angela Merkel is the sort of leader that would/could do such a thing but it shows the belief and not a little benevolence that this has not happened.

Anyway how does a discussion on Russian belligerence get on to EU/German economics, unless we are suggesting that Vladimir will annexe that to prop up Russia's failing economy.
#246: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 12:33 pm
    —
Greece was happy to suck up Euro's fro this economic block, they really can't get upset when they get called on pissing it up the wall. I still think that the best thing the EU could do is cut Greece loose as a warning to other nations against defaulting their agreements and responsibilities. To be fair to Greece though they are at least towing the line now so we shall see. Angela Merkel is the sort of leader that would/could do such a thing but it shows the belief and not a little benevolence that this has not happened.

Anyway how does a discussion on Russian belligerence get on to EU/German economics, unless we are suggesting that Vladimir will annexe that to prop up Russia's failing economy. [/quote]

Well not sure where this conspiracy theory of yours comes from.

Far from Greece sucking up Euro's - GB was one of the countries at the end of WW2 to reinstall the pro Nazi dictator from the war back into power in Greece. That was the start of the many years of corruption in Govt office. Just like many other countries post WW2 - Italy being another. Former fascist henchmen given respectable jobs post WW2. Angela Merkel only has the interest of her own country and rightly so. But Germany should be one of the last countries to talk about debt when their war time debt has been overlooked and it's not as though Greece failed to ask for the repayt of it til now either. It certainly isn't my opinion Germany hates Russia more or less than any other country particularly after USA was caught spying on their Allied Germany and Merkel.

I guess the discussion changed when people failed to understand the many the times broken western agreements with Russia today and former USSR - Glasnost and Perestroika. They ignorantly posted rants based on bias and paranoia ( scared ) of Russia. Once again another naive and gullible posting about a countries economy that is laughable. While Russia's GDP is low it's Foreign debt is only 23pc 31 Mar 2014. However we will use GB as an example for you - foreign debt 406pc of GDP at the same time period. Living far beyond their means as their debt is worse than many 3rd world countries in real terms. Too many people are caught up in media propaganda - normally the weak and feeble minded and you are one. Russia's economy is no more failed than GB's is strong.

If you haven't heard your Govt's reservations about the EU I simply don't know what cave you have been hiding in sorry. As far as conspiracy theories, it's called facts but guess if you haven't heard or seen the truth for a while you might not know what it looks like. Even France is thinking of pulling out of the EU as they see Germany becoming stronger while others weaken. Globalisation is another failed concept that only favours the strong like Multinational Corporations as an example.

Please do your home work next time so you don't embarrass yourself further with school boy rants.

ps. don't use Wiki either - Hope that helped you somewhat.
#247: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: US_Brake, Location: USA Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 4:53 pm
    —
Putin Poison

http://on.msnbc.com/1Qeh0d8
#248: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: kweniston, Location: Netherlands Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 7:44 pm
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US_Brake wrote (View Post):

Putin Poison

http://on.msnbc.com/1Qeh0d8

False flags, the speciality of the CIA. Nemtsov for example, was a complete nobody in Russia. So Putin would have this guy killed right on the Kreml doorstep, yeah right.

Not saying Russia is a princess, but compared to NATO/US, which have been involved into so much anti-Russian propaganda since Ukraine (the spontaneous 'revolution' was a 5 billion $ project by Victoria 'F* the EU' Nuland/McCain and Pyatt by the way), that your eyes should see be able to see the light by now. In Russia they recognize their propaganda, in the West we actually believe ours, a quote I agree with.
#249: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima, Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 8:16 pm
    —
Btw this week my company was awarded with the "Gold Mercury" as the best small/medium sized industrial exporter in Russia.
The most independent and valuable prize for the Russian small/medium sized company .
https://www.facebook.com/FisheringService/photos/pcb.879105155488289/879103502155121/?type=1&theater - me with the prize .

Funny thing is that alot of other nominees we saying WE WON BECAUSE OF THE SANCTIONS hehe.
So that's the first time since long the Russians are mainly united against the "enemy"...funny IMO .

But hate us as long as you fear us .
#250: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 8:54 pm
    —

US_Brake wrote (View Post):

Putin Poison

http://on.msnbc.com/1Qeh0d8

Once again no proof just conjecture and finger pointing. A bit like when the US accused Saddam of having WMD's in Iraq, Assad govt use of Sarin gas and the Nth Korean leader had executed his girl friend - all lies as time showed.

Can you show us real evidence and not crack pot journalism like the above examples.
#251: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: kweniston, Location: Netherlands Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 8:55 pm
    —
I'm Dutch, and I'm supposed to hate you Russians because your country 'supposedly' killed 193 of my fellow countrymen in the MH-17 downing. Accidentally, my interest in this very topic (fueled by the fact I flew back from my first holiday to Russia 4 days earlier), has made me realize the overwhelming amount of propaganda which we are served here in the West on a daily basis (something which we so happily accuse the rest of the world of). The inprobable amount of 'facts' and allegations hurdled at me in the first few hours after the crash let me dive into the rabbit hole. Still digging every day.

Turns out that it is near impossible to escape the narrative of the US and NATO views and interests, and the strict selection of news topics, and general framing and blaming that come with it, things which are unquestioned and funneled to the public by the mainstream 'free' media. And to my surprise, non-Western media cover a much broader range of topics and different point of views than my country's, things I associate with the notion of "press freedom". I have been far too ignorant for too long, I ashamedly confess.

Congrats on your prize though! Holland's business suffers a lot by the BS sanctions we helped to implement, but good to see at least someone is profiting .
#252: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima, Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 9:08 pm
    —

Quote:

I'm Dutch, and I'm supposed to hate you Russians because your country 'supposedly' killed 193 of my fellow countrymen in the MH-17 downing. Accidentally, my interest in this very topic (fueled by the fact I flew back from my first holiday to Russia 4 days earlier), has made me realize the overwhelming amount of propaganda which we are served here in the West on a daily basis (something which we so happily accuse the rest of the world of). The inprobable amount of 'facts' and allegations hurdled at me in the first few hours after the crash let me dive into the rabbit hole. Still digging every day.

Turns out that it is near impossible to escape the narrative of the US and NATO views and interests, and the strict selection of news topics, and general framing and blaming that come with it, things which are unquestioned and funneled to the public by the mainstream 'free' media. And to my surprise, non-Western media cover a much broader range of topics and different point of views than my country's, things I associate with the notion of "press freedom". I have been far too ignorant for too long, I ashamedly confess.

we got to live in this World but interesting is that even the guys who hated Mr.Pu so much before here started to defend his actions during last year .

Quote:

Congrats on your prize though! Holland's business suffers a lot by the BS sanctions we helped to implement, but good to see at least someone is profiting Wink.

I work with the Dutch companies as well, today we have shipped a new gear to Ijmuiden for the P&P fishing company (the largest in the EU)
and on Monday I will collect the goods in Ijmuiden to be imported to Russia 3 days after .
that's the way it is...
#253: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: kweniston, Location: Netherlands Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 9:29 pm
    —

Dima wrote (View Post):

Quote:

Congrats on your prize though! Holland's business suffers a lot by the BS sanctions we helped to implement, but good to see at least someone is profiting Wink.

I work with the Dutch companies as well, today we have shipped a new gear to Ijmuiden for the P&P fishing company (the largest in the EU)
and on Monday I will collect the goods in Ijmuiden to be imported to Russia 3 days after .
that's the way it is...

Have to admit that the Dutch are masters at keeping good relations with everybody, friends and enemies alike, as long as there is profit to be had. Better ship fish to evil Russia than cluster bombs to 'friendly' Saudi Arabia, me thinks.
#254: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima, Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 9:41 pm
    —

kweniston wrote (View Post):

Dima wrote (View Post):

Quote:

Congrats on your prize though! Holland's business suffers a lot by the BS sanctions we helped to implement, but good to see at least someone is profiting Wink.

I work with the Dutch companies as well, today we have shipped a new gear to Ijmuiden for the P&P fishing company (the largest in the EU)
and on Monday I will collect the goods in Ijmuiden to be imported to Russia 3 days after .
that's the way it is...

Have to admit that the Dutch are masters at keeping good relations with everybody, friends and enemies alike, as long as there is profit to be had. Better ship fish to evil Russia than cluster bombs to 'friendly' Saudi Arabia, me thinks.

maybe because the businessmen in Holland know that Russia is not the enemy?
#255: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Stwa, Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 10:43 pm
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kweniston wrote (View Post):

Have to admit that the Dutch are masters at keeping good relations with everybody, friends and enemies alike, as long as there is profit to be had.

Perhaps, but isn't most of Holland below sea level?

A few bunker buster bombs here and there, and Holland becomes part of the North Sea.
#256: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: kweniston, Location: Netherlands Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 11:25 pm
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Stwa wrote (View Post):

kweniston wrote (View Post):

Have to admit that the Dutch are masters at keeping good relations with everybody, friends and enemies alike, as long as there is profit to be had.

Perhaps, but isn't most of Holland below sea level?

A few bunker buster bombs here and there, and Holland becomes part of the North Sea.

Very well possible, but then you would lose the Dutch' knowledge of how to keep the water out... which is expertise that is quite appreciated in some western countries nowadays, or so I've read .

Also, being the European delta and entry port (Rhine/Meuse), it would maybe not be wise to bomb the country to pieces. But hey, if you convince John McCain, he could arrange it for you, np.
#257: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima, Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 12:00 am
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Stwa wrote (View Post):

kweniston wrote (View Post):

Have to admit that the Dutch are masters at keeping good relations with everybody, friends and enemies alike, as long as there is profit to be had.

Perhaps, but isn't most of Holland below sea level?

A few bunker buster bombs here and there, and Holland becomes part of the North Sea.

Putin's daughter lives in Holland so it's immune to the Russian strikes .
Or do you mean that the US will bomb the Dutch dams?
#258: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: schrecken, Location: Sydney, Australia Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 8:38 am
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The Russians already fucked their economy up for 70 years after WWII will they be stupid enough to do it again... I say yes.
#259: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: kweniston, Location: Netherlands Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 9:54 am
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schrecken wrote (View Post):

The Russians already fucked their economy up for 70 years after WWII will they be stupid enough to do it again... I say yes.

For sure, but the US already has a centrally planned economy as well... Not much learned. And the day that US' economical statistics are no longer manipulated upwards (and 'seasonally adjusted', lol), we will recognize the dire state of the US economy. Would hate to have dollar holdings by that time.

Every empire has a beginning and an end, imho the US is in the end of the beginning of the end (since 1971). Power is noticably shifting eastwards. Lot of changes coming for us all, let's hope it will not result in WWIII.
#260: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 11:46 am
    —
For sure, but the US already has a centrally planned economy as well... Not much learned. And the day that US' economical statistics are no longer manipulated upwards (and 'seasonally adjusted', lol), we will recognize the dire state of the US economy. Would hate to have dollar holdings by that time.

US economy is already in the toilet. In real terms their Foreign debt is 106pc of their GDP. Although not at 3rd world rates of debt, it's catching fast. Compare that debt to Russia who has a much smaller GDP. But Russia's Foreign debt is just 23pc of their GDP. Put that in terms of household debt. If you owe more than you earn and over many years. At some time comes the bust. US already pays the lowest possible amount of interest for hold off default repayts, hyper inflation and run away debt. USA can't keep living beyond their means and keep printing cash that only creates a false economy. Just too many are too scared to admit the truth before them.
#261: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima, Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 12:08 pm
    —

schrecken wrote (View Post):

The Russians already fucked their economy up for 70 years after WWII will they be stupid enough to do it again... I say yes.

USSR was ruled by the Georgians and then Ukranians till 80s.
when the first Russians came to power USSR started PERESTROYKA.
so yes, unfortunately we, the Russians, were occupied and forced to do bad things
#262: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj, Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 7:21 pm
    —
@Sod - American politicians in Congress are just too afraid of offending their Big $ lobbyists in military-industrial complex, for profit-prison and police state factions and the pharmaceutical industries...just to name a few. Also because they are afraid of raising taxes on their ultra wealthy Billionaire donors. America could basically pay off the entire debt immediately by cutting the budget, modest tax increases, and closing scam loopholes that are written into the the tax code by various interests.

It does not seem likely that America will cut its bloated Defense budget any time soon if ever. The War Hawks are on steroids right now trying to conflate Iraq or any other crisis into a blank check to raise spending even more. Even though we had the greatest increase in spending while we simultaneously cut taxes for the wealthy (cutting our revenues)...they keep wanting to spend more and more. Which may end up making America like USSR and go kaput in the future.
#263: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Stwa, Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:56 am
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kweniston wrote (View Post):

Very well possible, but then you would lose the Dutch' knowledge of how to keep the water out...

Yes, the Dutch know how to keep water out, and how to keep gays in. The West will never relent in their quest to make every living man, woman, and child gay.

Link

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#264: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Stwa, Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:56 am
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Dima wrote (View Post):

Or do you mean that the US will bomb the Dutch dams?

No, I was thinking these guys. Sometimes it works both ways.

Link

#265: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: kweniston, Location: Netherlands Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:46 pm
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sod98 wrote (View Post):

US economy is already in the toilet. In real terms their Foreign debt is 106pc of their GDP. Although not at 3rd world rates of debt, it's catching fast. Compare that debt to Russia who has a much smaller GDP. But Russia's Foreign debt is just 23pc of their GDP. Put that in terms of household debt. If you owe more than you earn and over many years. At some time comes the bust. US already pays the lowest possible amount of interest for hold off default repayts, hyper inflation and run away debt. USA can't keep living beyond their means and keep printing cash that only creates a false economy. Just too many are too scared to admit the truth before them.

Only thing saving US still is the dollar reserve currency status (being able to print money without the negative effects locally), which is is under attack from multiple sources, and exactly that is what the US is protecting fiercely (Iraq/Libya wanted to pay for oil in Euro for example, see what happened). World politics is pretty simple once you start to see the main drivers, i.e. oil/dollar/gold and access to natural resources.
#266: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: US_Brake, Location: USA Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:04 pm
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Iran to Receive Russian Air Defense Missiles

http://thediplomat.com/2015/05/confirmed-iran-to-receive-russian-air-defense-missiles/
#267: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: kweniston, Location: Netherlands Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:07 pm
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US_Brake wrote (View Post):

Iran to Receive Russian Air Defense Missiles

http://thediplomat.com/2015/05/confirmed-iran-to-receive-russian-air-defense-missiles/

Why the US can sell weapons to everyone (incl. banned clusterbombs), but Russia can not, and why Iran is set away as the muslim "axis of evil", even while USA's 'big friend' of Saudi Arabia is the epitome of muslim extremism (including supposed backing of the 9/11 hijackers and IS, for whatever is true of those stories), beats me. Hypocritical is a eufemism.
#268: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 1:34 am
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Why the US can sell weapons to everyone (incl. banned clusterbombs), but Russia can not, and why Iran is set away as the muslim "axis of evil", even while USA's 'big friend' of Saudi Arabia is the epitome of muslim extremism (including supposed backing of the 9/11 hijackers and IS, for whatever is true of those stories), beats me. Hypocritical is a eufemism.[/quote]

USA is the Number 1 Military weapons supplier for the last 10 years. Not bad as they have fooled the public into believing things like providing democracy, freedoms and liberty. Really they provide death, destruction and misery. Every country they have attacked is now far worse off economically and politically unstable.
#269: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: US_Brake, Location: USA Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:43 am
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Russian Lies
Today false Russian media claims that Russian planes forced US warship to head away from Russian territorial waters.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/01/politics/russia-plane-navy-uss-ross/index.html

https://youtu.be/jno04lAG6D4
#270: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:26 am
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[quote="US_Brake";p="80850"]Russian Lies
Today false Russian media claims that Russian planes forced US warship to head away from Russian territorial waters.

All sides use propaganda. How do you know that they weren't forced away from Russian T. CNN brought us WMD's in Iraq, justification for the illegal invasion of Iraq, Sarin gas use by Assad Govt. As did other US media and all were lies. Somewhere in between is the truth on this matter.
#271: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj, Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 7:41 am
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Governments all have ways to manipulate media especially in their own nation. It is a routine part of Government. Russia is reverting back to old days with control over media. You are wrong about CNN. Yes they do tend to like to promote war stories because they will get a boost in ratings which means more $ from advertisers. Facts don't matter as long as they get ratings.

Iraq was sold to CNN and media by Dick Cheney and his War Hawk snake oil salesmen. Finally there is at least one person (Paul) in his party with balls to confront Cheney, McCain, Graham and the snake oil salesmen that led America into Iraq based on a pack of lies.
#272: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: kweniston, Location: Netherlands Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:41 pm
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I thought we had press freedom here in the Netherlands, but I now realize the narratives here are completely controlled by higher powers (government/NATO/US). The selectiveness of the news and downright propaganda is shocking, once you know the actual facts (by checking multiple sources). For the average Joe, reading the paper and watching the eight o'clock news, the worldview is quite distorted from reality. You need to actively look for different sources, usually outside your own country, to understand the news and the world, at least for a little bit.
#273: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj, Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 5:53 am
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So it is Yankee and Kraut imperialist conspiracy then? And Russia is innocent and never lies or does anything wrong?

What about the part that the world is controlled by uber wealthy multi-national corporations or billionaires that have ownership stake over media, such as Fox News Corp. Corporate media giants pedal their own agendas or what they think their big $ & Partisan sponsors want to hear. I don't blame the people, I blame the corporations or state-run media that intentionally dumbs-down the news and distort facts for ratings. If I see one more news story on Bruce Jenner or Realty TV gender identity gossip, i'm going to throw my television out the window. What a heap of crap the media is throwing at us like a bunch of monkeys. That is an insult to monkeys.
#274: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Stwa, Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:27 am
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What about the part that the world is controlled by uber wealthy multi-national corporations or billionaires that have ownership stake over media, such as MSLSD or ABC123.
#275: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:23 am
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Stwa wrote (View Post):

What about the part that the world is controlled by uber wealthy multi-national corporations or billionaires that have ownership stake over media, such as MSLSD or ABC123.

So finally you have done some research and found out that what I have said is true about US media being owned by the Multi Nats.The percentage is growing rapidly. Just like in the early 1980's 56 Corps owned 90% of all US media. Keep going and you will find out that the richest 1% of the world own 48pc of all the worlds wealth. That is a conservative figure,but that is all that can be traced to date. The figure could go as high as 60% tops.
#276: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:48 am
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Stwa wrote (View Post):

What about the part that the world is controlled by uber wealthy multi-national corporations or billionaires that have ownership stake over media, such as MSLSD or ABC123.

Stwa - Did you see this in the media recently

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jan/18/richest-62-billionaires-wealthy-half-world-population-combined
#277: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Sapa, Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:23 pm
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Before chased away by two Gripen Summer 2015

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#278: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj, Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:20 am
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Wow so Russia is messing with Sweden too? They got shot down by Turkey recently, never heard about this incident in Sweden. Looks like SU-27 armed with at least 5 AA missiles.
#279: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Sapa, Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 1:21 pm
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And even the Swedes do it (but with a litte more safety zone)

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#280: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:03 pm
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dj wrote (View Post):

Wow so Russia is messing with Sweden too? They got shot down by Turkey recently, never heard about this incident in Sweden. Looks like SU-27 armed with at least 5 AA missiles.

That shooting down of the Russian aircraft was more to do with Russia stopping stolen Syrian oil going into Turkey ( IS ) than anything else. They all have a process for air violations over Iraq and Syria. Turkey never used it. Greece have said that if Turkey wants to go by those rules then they would be shooting Turkish aircraft down every other day. Sadly Turkey appears one of the countries aiding IS but want to hammer the Kurds.
#281: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj, Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:58 am
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Sod, where are you getting this information? Sounds like a credible justification. Not a single word about that was mentioned by US media. The Invasion of Iraq and take-out of Saddam Hussein is looking to be quite possibly the worst American foreign policy blunder in our nation's history. Iraq was the perfect balance of power check against Iran and the Shia's. Now we have an absolute train wreck with Turkey supposedly being part of our alliance on paper much like the Saudi's Sunnis. But in reality those governments have very little control if any to regulate sympathetic factions that not only support the ISIS cause but give them significant financial support. Worse is that they have an extremely effective recruitment strategy which has a limitless pool of over a Billion muslims or even non-muslims that can be indoctrinated to join their cause. I don't trust a single word politicians say about ISIS because the vast majority have absolutely no clue what they are talking about.
#282: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 2:30 am
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dj wrote (View Post):

Sod, where are you getting this information? Sounds like a credible justification. Not a single word about that was mentioned by US media. The Invasion of Iraq and take-out of Saddam Hussein is looking to be quite possibly the worst American foreign policy blunder in our nation's history. Iraq was the perfect balance of power check against Iran and the Shia's. Now we have an absolute train wreck with Turkey supposedly being part of our alliance on paper much like the Saudi's Sunnis. But in reality those governments have very little control if any to regulate sympathetic factions that not only support the ISIS cause but give them significant financial support. Worse is that they have an extremely effective recruitment strategy which has a limitless pool of over a Billion muslims or even non-muslims that can be indoctrinated to join their cause. I don't trust a single word politicians say about ISIS because the vast majority have absolutely no clue what they are talking about.

Here's just one site with a video of an attack upon a convoy taking oil into Turkey - IS stolen Syrian oil. The Brit's are saying the two biggest buyers of Syrian oil - Turkey and Israel. There are also independent interviews with " moderate terrorists " saying how they entered Syria after training in Turkey, naming the towns etc, trained by Turkish Officers. The latest is that Turkey is once again allowing reinforcements of IS forces to stream into Syria while the Turks are taking care of the Kurds. Most of the early bombings in Turkey were upon the Kurds who the Turks immensely dislike as they fear they will set up a Kurdish state at some stage in regions bordering - Turkey, Iraq, Iran etc. Turkey and Saudi A are up to their necks in IS, Al Nusra, Jaysh al-Muhajirin wa al-Ansar, then the so-called moderates who once trained by the West seem to end up in one of the former militias with their Toyota pickups.

It doesn't pay to read just your own countries news release as they do tend to slant it the way they want their population to see it. BBC, Reuters etc have all covered Turkey's aiding of IS even from the early days. Turk's are great people, I love the country and will be going back there soon so I'm not trying to bag them either.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/footage-shows-russian-jets-bombard-6955770

Another by the Guardian on Turkey's possible motives.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/18/turkey-cut-islamic-state-supply-lines-erdogan-isis
#283: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj, Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:28 am
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Strange that we still do not any credible explanation of what occurred during this incident in Swedish territorial waters. Seemed like Russia was at fault considering their aggressive stance. However just watched Discovery channel documentary. Russia appears to have nothing to do with this, despite their recent aggressive military actions. The documentary also mentioned some important facts that actually Sweden has a history of several other incidents. In the 60's crew onboard navy ship fired shots in fear that they were under attack at some type of sub they could not identify. Numerous witnesses on board were witnessed. During WW2 suspected V1 bombs were witnessed flying over Swedish territorial waters that were seen submerging.

Russia would first need to invade Finland again to even make it worthwhile to mess with Sweden. So not adding up why Russia would want to mess with Sweden with subs lurking around their home waters.

MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

Finland drops depth charges in 'submarine' alert

Ok now the Finnish navy have picked up some signals that point to an unknown entity in Finnish territorial waters. Not necessarily a Russian sub but that's one possibility. Not sure if this is going to be another 'wild goose chase' as was with the Swedes.

#284: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj, Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:32 am
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Correction...I got the Finland incident mixed-up with Sweden as both nations have been reporting similar incidents in recent years.
#285: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:16 am
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dj wrote (View Post):

Correction...I got the Finland incident mixed-up with Sweden as both nations have been reporting similar incidents in recent years.

Once again Paranoia is King in some countries - http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/sweden-suspected-foreign-submarine-turned-out-be-fishing-boat-n342036

Wasn't there another country that did report a similar incident that turned out to be a seal - true.
#286: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj, Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 5:24 pm
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AT_Stalky called it. Going back to 2014 Russian Govt under Putin has been going berserk with Hybrid warfare against USA & their NATO allies. Still not exactly clear what Putin's agenda is other than weaken Western influence in Eastern Europe and keep out of former USSR states that he wants more control over. Interesting to know what exactly Flynn discussed with Putin along with Jared Kushners secret meeting last December in Trump Tower. No free lunches in the world of business and politics.
#287: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:03 pm
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Nato has pushed itself onto the Russian borders not the other way round. A quick look at any map from the 1990's would prove this. Also the number of Nato bases around Russia since the Cold War have increased but also increased around China. Russia in the last year cut it's military budget by 25% while US along with others have increased their military spending. Your statement really doesn't hold water but is full of holes. Interesting though that now Germany, Austria and Hungary are all looking at life without Nato but a European Defence. Austria, Hungary and several other countries want closer military, economic and trade ties to Russia in the future.

An article in Forbes magazine predicts Russia to be Euro economic powerhouse and China worlds economic powerhouse by 2050. I can see why some countries feel threatened and a little scared of what they might lose. Predict based upon current factors as well.
#288: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: MajorFrank, Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:05 pm
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There's also been some airspace violations by Russia into Finnish airspace. For a while they weren't reported in the media but at one point the Finnish military decided to start reporting them in the media to put more pressure on Russia to fix it I guess. Which is kind of funny really. "Look, look, they're doing it again!" Oh well.

As long as the Ukraine conflict drags on, the sanctions will probably stay in place in some form and the situation won't be normalised. That whole thing has already had a huge effect on Russian economy, and on the economy of many European nations that deal a lot with Russia.
#289: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj, Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:01 am
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The Protesters in Moscow looked very bad for Putin. I saw the video footage, they roughing up people. Putin is starting to face some more serious opposition to his dictatorship. One of Putin's political opponents has flying drone video footage trying to expose corruption.

Still no answer on all the suspected sub incidents in Finland and Swedish coastal waters. The Russians possibly are hiding stealth sub based near St Petersburg?

Situation in Syria looks very sketchy. Not sure what Russia gains except for maybe arms trade deals with Syrian govt. Russia is hurting from sanctions not worth it.
#290: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:53 am
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dj wrote (View Post):

The Protesters in Moscow looked very bad for Putin. I saw the video footage, they roughing up people. Putin is starting to face some more serious opposition to his dictatorship. One of Putin's political opponents has flying drone video footage trying to expose corruption.

Still no answer on all the suspected sub incidents in Finland and Swedish coastal waters. The Russians possibly are hiding stealth sub based near St Petersburg?

Situation in Syria looks very sketchy. Not sure what Russia gains except for maybe arms trade deals with Syrian govt. Russia is hurting from sanctions not worth it.

What was the stats on the protesters in Moscow to the actual population in percentages was less than 1%...............lol. Once again it was another illegal protest. No one shot for being black thank god. It does appear it was the same old LBGT, so no one important.

The sub is what it is - it only exists in the minds of the fools - Russophobia.

Russian gain in Syria is that they back their Allies when they are correct. Unlike the war criminals in the US who currently back terrorist like ISIS and Al Nusra................even backing the ISIS White Helmets, making doco's and movies on these terrorists.................lol. Arms deals are a good idea as the Russian tech does appear to be the front runners in military tech currently. No F35 Flying Bricks, Subs that can't go under the water or ships that are unseaworthy. Funny enough in the first Gulf War Syria was allied to the USA. But so was Saddam previously, Manuel Noriega, Ngo Dinh Diem, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi and many others all removed through regime change. It doesn't appear to be a good idea to be allied to the US. When you say sketchy that's short for another paranoid guess..........lol.

Russia's aggression on the West - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-nato-border-forces-map-where-are-they-positioned-a7562391.html
#291: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:51 am
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Fake News - http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jun/27/donald-trump-charges-fake-news-after-cnn-producer-/
#292: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: pvt_Grunt, Location: Melbourne, Australia Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:27 am
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An interesting article about hacking as a weapon. We've all seen it in movies, the reality is different of course but just as effective as strategic bombing.
https://www.wired.com/story/russian-hackers-attack-ukraine/
#293: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:35 am
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pvt_Grunt wrote (View Post):

An interesting article about hacking as a weapon. We've all seen it in movies, the reality is different of course but just as effective as strategic bombing.
https://www.wired.com/story/russian-hackers-attack-ukraine/

WIRED is about as reliable as Germany's propaganda WW2 was truthful. They are one of the backers of the " White Helmets " story. They ran articles backing the " Syrian Observatory for Human Rights " even well after they were outed as a fraud. A one man band ( SOFHR ) operating out of a house in England. The guy used photos from many conflicts and made up stories. Very easy to check this one piece out alone. Many other articles written by these guys put them into that class of media known as propaganda.

The hacking story could still be correct. But with absolutely no evidence again other than a very unreliable report I suggest it belongs with the rest of the fake news. Funny enough lots of hackers are Ukrainian. However for the top 10 countries Russia only comes in at number 6. USA are the overwhelming winners - https://www.businessinsider.com.au/worlds-10-cybercrime-hotspots-in-2016-ranked-symantec-2017-5?r=UK&IR=T

Still it would make for a good movie alone side another remake of Red Dawn.
#294: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:56 am
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Round two of the same - http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jun/28/cnns-van-jones-calls-russia-story-nothing-burger-l/

Caught again with the same lies. When will it all stop.
#295: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: MajorFrank, Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:10 am
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dj wrote (View Post):

The Protesters in Moscow looked very bad for Putin. I saw the video footage, they roughing up people. Putin is starting to face some more serious opposition to his dictatorship. One of Putin's political opponents has flying drone video footage trying to expose corruption.

Still no answer on all the suspected sub incidents in Finland and Swedish coastal waters. The Russians possibly are hiding stealth sub based near St Petersburg?

Situation in Syria looks very sketchy. Not sure what Russia gains except for maybe arms trade deals with Syrian govt. Russia is hurting from sanctions not worth it.

About subs, I think they speculated that Russia is probably operating with mini-subs in the region. Or not.

There's one Russian sub, a big one, that sometimes surfaces near a ferry that operates between Helsinki, the capital of Finland, and Tallinn, the capital of Estonia. Just kind of surfaces and tourists snap pictures of it. Doesn't seem hostile but it's not really normal either.
#296: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:22 am
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MajorFrank wrote (View Post):

dj wrote (View Post):

The Protesters in Moscow looked very bad for Putin. I saw the video footage, they roughing up people. Putin is starting to face some more serious opposition to his dictatorship. One of Putin's political opponents has flying drone video footage trying to expose corruption.

Still no answer on all the suspected sub incidents in Finland and Swedish coastal waters. The Russians possibly are hiding stealth sub based near St Petersburg?

Situation in Syria looks very sketchy. Not sure what Russia gains except for maybe arms trade deals with Syrian govt. Russia is hurting from sanctions not worth it.

About subs, I think they speculated that Russia is probably operating with mini-subs in the region. Or not.

There's one Russian sub, a big one, that sometimes surfaces near a ferry that operates between Helsinki, the capital of Finland, and Tallinn, the capital of Estonia. Just kind of surfaces and tourists snap pictures of it. Doesn't seem hostile but it's not really normal either.

That would be very different - cheers
#297: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: pvt_Grunt, Location: Melbourne, Australia Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:28 pm
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sod98 wrote (View Post):

pvt_Grunt wrote (View Post):

An interesting article about hacking as a weapon. We've all seen it in movies, the reality is different of course but just as effective as strategic bombing.
https://www.wired.com/story/russian-hackers-attack-ukraine/

WIRED is about as reliable as Germany's propaganda WW2 was truthful. They are one of the backers of the " White Helmets " story. They ran articles backing the " Syrian Observatory for Human Rights " even well after they were outed as a fraud. A one man band ( SOFHR ) operating out of a house in England. The guy used photos from many conflicts and made up stories. Very easy to check this one piece out alone. Many other articles written by these guys put them into that class of media known as propaganda.

The hacking story could still be correct. But with absolutely no evidence again other than a very unreliable report I suggest it belongs with the rest of the fake news. Funny enough lots of hackers are Ukrainian. However for the top 10 countries Russia only comes in at number 6. USA are the overwhelming winners - https://www.businessinsider.com.au/worlds-10-cybercrime-hotspots-in-2016-ranked-symantec-2017-5?r=UK&IR=T

Still it would make for a good movie alone side another remake of Red Dawn.

It's 2017, hackers dont have nationalities. It's posible the individuals are all in separate countries, including Ukraine and USA. The question is who is paying them?
And it doesnt matter if Russia is number 1000 on the list, that it just a distraction type argument.

My point is that this sort of warfare is already common. And unlike strategic bombing, the weapons dont carry a countries insignia.

But ask yousrelf, "Who would be behind this and why?"
Unless you subscribe to the Serbian nationalist argument that "They blew up their own market to make us look bad" Markale market , the obvious backer is Russia (and no, I dont have proof) just a logical mind that sees through the old "But that side is worse" type arguments. Cheers
#298: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj, Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:42 am
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Boom - first source of evidence announced in story in Wall Street Journal today. Flynn said to have ties to Russians hackers via Partisan supporter Peter W. Smith. Whom allegedly died just 10 days after his meeting with WSJ reporters. 81 years old but no mention of how he died. This is basically the first real evidence. WSJ is NOT fake news:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/gop-operative-sought-clinton-emails-from-hackers-implied-a-connection-to-flynn-1498770851

Re: unknown sub incidents in Baltic, it is hard to say why all the issues. Since this is such a critical region for Russia, I would guess they have some stealth sub or even new sub drones that could explain.
Some incidents are not adding up.

...So the Russian "bank" executive that met with Jared in December in NY, turns out to just be front for Russian govt. The "bank" actually has no capital or cash. It is just a front for financial transactions for Russian govt. Deutchbank gave Jared $200M loan just a few months ago that he personally is the guarantor. Russians were masterful in their manipulation of Flynn, Mannafort and others.
#299: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:43 am
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dj wrote (View Post):

Boom - first source of evidence announced in story in Wall Street Journal today. Flynn said to have ties to Russians hackers via Partisan supporter Peter W. Smith. Whom allegedly died just 10 days after his meeting with WSJ reporters. 81 years old but no mention of how he died. This is basically the first real evidence. WSJ is NOT fake news:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/gop-operative-sought-clinton-emails-from-hackers-implied-a-connection-to-flynn-1498770851

Re: unknown sub incidents in Baltic, it is hard to say why all the issues. Since this is such a critical region for Russia, I would guess they have some stealth sub or even new sub drones that could explain.
Some incidents are not adding up.

...So the Russian "bank" executive that met with Jared in December in NY, turns out to just be front for Russian govt. The "bank" actually has no capital or cash. It is just a front for financial transactions for Russian govt. Deutchbank gave Jared $200M loan just a few months ago that he personally is the guarantor. Russians were masterful in their manipulation of Flynn, Mannafort and others.

SDo the words " likely to be Russian " mean much to you DJ. As in it's a guess again...............lol. How many times have MSM said likely and never produced evidence.
#300: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:49 am
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It's 2017, hackers dont have nationalities. It's posible the individuals are all in separate countries, including Ukraine and USA. The question is who is paying them?
And it doesnt matter if Russia is number 1000 on the list, that it just a distraction type argument.

My point is that this sort of warfare is already common. And unlike strategic bombing, the weapons dont carry a countries insignia.

But ask yousrelf, "Who would be behind this and why?"
Unless you subscribe to the Serbian nationalist argument that "They blew up their own market to make us look bad" Markale market , the obvious backer is Russia (and no, I dont have proof) just a logical mind that sees through the old "But that side is worse" type arguments. Cheers [/quote]

I guess in fairness to you that article missed the point where the two most hacked countries from this latest hacking are Ukraine and Russia. Certainly the first two victims were Russia and Ukraine as well - https://www.businessinsider.com.au/petya-cyberattack-hit-64-countries-no-kill-switch-2017-6?r=US&IR=T

It is a very dangerous thing to draw conclusions from small pieces of information without the full picture as I hope you have now seen.
#301: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:59 am
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SDo the words " likely to be Russian " mean much to you DJ. As in it's a guess again...............lol. How many times have MSM said likely and never produced evidence.[/quote]

Typo - So do the words.............
#302: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: JFFulcrum, Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 4:23 pm
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pvt_Grunt wrote (View Post):

An interesting article about hacking as a weapon. We've all seen it in movies, the reality is different of course but just as effective as strategic bombing.
https://www.wired.com/story/russian-hackers-attack-ukraine/

Nice story. Not a single word about Ukrainian cyberwarfare activities, like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inform_Napalm , which with its 'ukrainian patriots hacking groups' is a public mask of Ukraine military 72th center of information and psychological operations (BTW, Ukraine have 4 of such 'centres' just in ministry of defense, their intelligence agency SBU maintain own forces).
#303: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj, Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:33 pm
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Hacking is just one small part of the Ops conducted by Russia and their puppet regimes in former USSR. Here is a very old but interesting article about Paul Mannafort's role working for the pro-Russia premier Viktor Yanukovych whom was later ousted. Paul Mannfort also had close ties to Rinat Akhmetov whom introduced him to Viktor. Now like in the past Mannafort has virtually gone into hiding. Unlike in the past though, he refused to disclose he received 10's of millions to work as foreign lobbyist until journalists recently revealed.

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/03/paul-manafort-ukraine-104263?o=0
#304: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: JFFulcrum, Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:47 pm
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Quote:

pro-Russia premier Viktor Yanukovych

Oh, how i like this. Lets count, what pro-russian Yanukovich done:

- Accelerated the association agreement with EU, done in two years more than pro-US president Yuschenko in four years previously.
- Highly promised during his election campaign 'dual language law' was delayed for three years, and even after signing no budget was planned for implementation
- Departed and banned from Ukraine pro-Russian former Crimea president Meshkov
- Imprisoned a premier Timoshenko, who signed a crucial for Russia gas contract, and prepared a lawsuit in the Stockholm arbitration about contract
- Even after, well, kind of bribing from Russia with USD 15 bln credit line, instead of just signing the agreement with EU and doing nothing to really implement it (like Turkey did in 13 years before) decided not to sign with no public reason and authorized to beat the protesters, resulting in upraising, loss of power, loss all of russian influence in Ukraine, loss of all the russian-owned business in Ukraine and USD 50 bln of investments into ukrainian economy.

All for Russian glory, of course.
#305: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:59 am
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http://www.politico.com/story/2014/03/paul-manafort-ukraine-104263?o=0[/quote]

A very poorly written article. It really just outlines a timeline of Maniforts time working for the Ukraine Govt. Much like how former Blackwater now called Constellis Holdings is working for the current Ukraine Govt - money talks. Provides no surprises esp as he worked for the Ukraine. Also it shows no relevance to Russia.

Here is a better view of what happened in the Ukraine from a better media outlet - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/russia-ukraine-war-kiev-conflict
#306: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: pvt_Grunt, Location: Melbourne, Australia Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:47 am
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JFFulcrum wrote (View Post):

pvt_Grunt wrote (View Post):

An interesting article about hacking as a weapon. We've all seen it in movies, the reality is different of course but just as effective as strategic bombing.
https://www.wired.com/story/russian-hackers-attack-ukraine/

Nice story. Not a single word about Ukrainian cyberwarfare activities, like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inform_Napalm , which with its 'ukrainian patriots hacking groups' is a public mask of Ukraine military 72th center of information and psychological operations (BTW, Ukraine have 4 of such 'centres' just in ministry of defense, their intelligence agency SBU maintain own forces).

I have no doubt the Ukraine gov is at it as well. They'd be foolish not to, even more foolish to tell us about it!
For all I know it could be the same hackers working for any side who pays. I've worked in many industries where the actual workers move between companies freely, where "competitors" share the same contractors.
I am wary of any one asking for my allegiance to a flag, nation, corporation. They are usually in it for themselves.

Go back to the famous STUXNET incident.The engineers from Symantec looked at the code for 2 years. They could see the individual styles of different people who had worked on the virus, but independently. They surmised that the hackers writing the code probably had no idea who they were working for or what the code would be used for.
No different from a worker in a rifle factory. He/She would have no idea where the weapon would end up and probably wouldn't even ask.

ps - I know you dont respect WIRED. I chose that story as I read the book it refers to "Countdown to Zero Day"

pps - welcome to the forum, I've not seen you here before?
#307: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:05 am
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pvt Grunt - fair comment, good comments.

It does look as though with these hack tools you can make yourself out to be anyone. Agreed that they do have their own individual styles and maybe that's what will give them away one day. Particularly on their past history if they have been caught previous. People always revert back to what they know and use common practices.

I'm just starting to understand why the US Intel community went after Dotcom. It had little or nothing to do with his pirating site - Mega Upload. More to do with him and his associates - hackers. He seems to have close ties with Assange, Greenwald, Snowden and others of the same ilk. Then there is his encryption files the FBI tried to move heaven and earth for and to this day have failed to get a result. Some say that's where Snowden hid his info ? Even the raid was very interest - FBI taking part in the raid in New Zealand at his mansion. NZ Armed Police with no identification's visible etc.
#308: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: MajorFrank, Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:55 pm
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https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/gavleborg/uppgifter-misstankt-ubat-i-gavle-hamn

Another one of these possible Russian mini-submarine sightings, this time in a harbour that's pretty far 'inland'. Could be true, could be false.
#309: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: JFFulcrum, Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:26 am
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Quote:

it could be the same hackers working for any side who pays

Well, some end-coders - may be, but such complex things like Stuxnet unlikely was made 100% by individuals - like any modern software cyberweaponry requires an industrial approach to plan it, manage its development and finally to assembly from pieces and deploy. So there WAS some gov or corporation behind famous attacks, which uses some 'underground' peoples to hide traces and reduce costs.

Quote:

know you dont respect WIRED

Have nothing against the Wired, but when i see common tropes like 'There was a peaceful day when <insert>, good man from <insert> drinks his coffee and THEN ugly orks form <insert> invaded", i think that some media should be treated like legit military targets nowdays.

P.S. I`m here for some years, but have not much to write about, cause CS classics finished long time ago and remakes looks to bad to spend money for them. Although currently studying the Caen part.
#310: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj, Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:23 am
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Ok so the shit is really going to hit the fan in the U.S. Businessman Bill Browder insists the woman whom tried to meet Trump Jr is trying to end his efforts to pushback on Russian corruption practices. His Russian representative was tortured and killed in Russia jail. Bill Browder also insists he was a target as well for revenge by Russian government. He even goes so far to accuse the Russian government as being tied to the famous Russian mafia. I thought Boris Yeltsin was said to have the Russian mafia interfering in their affairs. It is a like a puzzle all inter-connected.

Rumours are that Trump Jr was seen as extremely dumb and easy to influence. Surprised that Mannafort and Jared Kushner would agree to take the meeting though with Natalia. I am convinced the Russians were extremely smooth con-artists and easily were able to influence the Trump people. Plus already this year, Trump sold multiple properties and it would be completely legal for him to sell to Russian-back LLC's and whatever "price" he wanted to. If that is not money laundering, I don't know what is. This is like the BCCI scandal of the early 90's except the bank is just a front for Russian government transactions. Follow the $$$...

Re: the strange subs or drones in Baltic...so many sightings in Nordic nations near Russian ports. My guess is that Russians built new mini stealth subs or drones. Biggest issue is power source that is sustainable and powerful enough and satellite comm issues. Still no explanation about the sightings in 1960's, I think it was Swedish navy that thought they were under attack and shot at suspected sub they could not identify.
#311: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:23 am
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These guys you name are CIA stooges. Remember Browder, Safra, Magnitsky and others were involved in the $7 billion from the IMF funds to refurbish the Kremlin in 2000 - pay off to Yeltsen. Some were killed in prison awaiting trial, others in places like Monaco were assassinated. If I can find the article that outlined these stooges plan to take over / place a man in the top job in Russia I will post it ( election interference ). All of the blame has been placed on Russia as you would expect. But several things stood out for me like the assassination in Monaco where Safra, were his bodyguard of some 20 men were stood down for the night of the assassination. These guards were obviously stood down by persons with influence and in the world's biggest tax haven. Where security is paramount and cash is King. What's the saying - an assets is only an asset while it has worth, then it becomes a liability.

Trump's son it appears has fallen to a CIA trap. There are other stories like concerning Safra's jet being used in the Iran / Contra deals etc. Browder being outed as a spy master ( like Putin was ) for the CIA etc.

Like all of these stories of Russian collusion, they promise so much but delivery nothing. What did Trumps camp gain from the meeting - nothing, what was passed to the deal brokers - nothing. The only victim were those dumb enough to fall into it's trap - Team Trump. This rubbish will continue for the next 4 years to try to ensure Trump doesn't get re-elected and not because it's true.

The submarine business. Who knows if all of these sub's are Russian ? After all non have definitely been identified and most have been hoax's.

Did you hear about the building in Mosul being bombed that contained 200 women and children in it as one ISIS fighter was on it's roof.......war crime. Not good. And now the US are looking to pull out of the Agreement in the SW of Syria.......not good.
#312: Re: Russian money laundering in real estate schemes Author: dj, Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:55 am
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Nice try...you always have some type of excuse, justification or conspiracy theory for every complaint about Russia or Trump family. Browder is not a CIA agent did you "read" that on another blog? And now this is Boris Yeltsin's fault?

Now there is plenty of evidence, even Trump's own son released it. Only after the NY Times warned him they would do it if he didn't. And now Mike Pence's spokesman refuses to answer question from Fox News of all places if he ever met with Russian officials. Pence already got caught lying repeatedly about Flynn in multiple interviews. Before he knew they would be caught.

Why did Natalia tell Trump Jr she was busy in New York City court case earlier that day before the meeting? Because she was helping settle $230M Tax Fraud Money Laundering lawsuit against Russian organized crime ring. Case was later settled. Now there is also news about more Russian real estate transactions with Trump just as predicted by experts. And no surprise it was a front, Cyprus-baed real estate corp...i'm sure LLC so they can try to hide links to Russian robber barons agents of Putin regime.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/manhattan-us-attorney-announces-civil-forfeiture-complaint-against-real-estate

https://www.moneylaunderingwatchblog.com/2017/05/forfeiture-case-based-on-alleged-230-million-russian-money-laundering-and-fraud-scheme-settles-for-5-9-million/
#313: Re: Russian money laundering in real estate schemes Author: sod98, Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:21 am
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dj wrote (View Post):

Nice try...you always have some type of excuse, justification or conspiracy theory for every complaint about Russia or Trump family. Browder is not a CIA agent did you "read" that on another blog? And now this is Boris Yeltsin's fault?

Now there is plenty of evidence, even Trump's own son released it. Only after the NY Times warned him they would do it if he didn't. And now Mike Pence's spokesman refuses to answer question from Fox News of all places if he ever met with Russian officials. Pence already got caught lying repeatedly about Flynn in multiple interviews. Before he knew they would be caught.

Why did Natalia tell Trump Jr she was busy in New York City court case earlier that day before the meeting? Because she was helping settle $230M Tax Fraud Money Laundering lawsuit against Russian organized crime ring. Case was later settled. Now there is also news about more Russian real estate transactions with Trump just as predicted by experts. And no surprise it was a front, Cyprus-baed real estate corp...i'm sure LLC so they can try to hide links to Russian robber barons agents of Putin regime.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/manhattan-us-attorney-announces-civil-forfeiture-complaint-against-real-estate

https://www.moneylaunderingwatchblog.com/2017/05/forfeiture-case-based-on-alleged-230-million-russian-money-laundering-and-fraud-scheme-settles-for-5-9-million/

Have a look yourself. It's you who again is pedaling the conspiracy theories - Russian meddling etc. To date no evidence just Chinese whispers.........lol.. I'm just trying to give you the other side of the story and once again in this case it's the correct one. You are like a dog with a bone when it comes to anything Trump related. I have already stated Trump's rubbish but these stories in themselves are a form of corruption - fake news. Trump's son was too easy a target. That Russian lawyer has even stated now she doesn't work for the Russian Govt and why would they want her anyway. She is Joe average like this story. You have constantly placed rubbish stories that have gone nowhere and Trump is still in power. Here's a little of Yeltsin's corruption and from a Western media - https://www.theguardian.com/world/1999/oct/17/russia.business

How many times have I provided you the evidence now...........it's embarrassing. Still to find the rest of the story as I hope I will - it was a while ago and these stories disappear and become hard to find sometimes. Here's just a story from one of the guys involved - very interest as he was innocent - https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/uncategorized/so-who-really-tried-to-blackmail-yeltsin-takeover-russia-nsa-cia-or-investment-bankers/

Vanity Fair at the time ran a very interesting piece on Safra his life and death - easy to find even for you DJ. All of your why's add up to exactly nothing once again. In fact we should have a bet on this. If I'm right that this story goes nowhere you leave this site. If I'm wrong I will do the same. I will wait for your answer. You have nothing to lose as you really don't offer anything. I have tried to lead you to water but you persist in drinking poison.
#314: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj, Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:35 am
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Russian's own emails that were publicly disclosed to the media said Natalia is a lawyer representing the Russian Government. Trump Jr. is not even disputing the contents of emails. Sod you are a troll. What other side? The facts are the facts. Always cry "fake news" as smokescreen when the facts don't suit your viewpoints. The Russians always use fronts or intermediaries. They would never admit one of their own government employees met personally with Trump family. All foreign intel agencies do the same thing, otherwise they would be liable. So the CIA trapped Trump Jr to meet with the Russians? Makes absolutely no sense as usual, your stories have no logic whatsoever.

Richard Smith, the political activist whom admitted to the Wall Street Journal in May he attempted to work via Russia is now allegedly said to have committed suicide. Just 10 days after his interview with WSJ. Smells very fishy. I would not be surprised if Russian Intel helped silence him as favor to Trump. WSJ reporter disputes the story that Smith was inclined to kill himself.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/07/14/exclusive-doubt-surfaces-about-suicide-claim-of-clinton-investigator/
#315: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:54 am
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dj wrote (View Post):

Russian's own emails that were publicly disclosed to the media said Natalia is a lawyer representing the Russian Government. Trump Jr. is not even disputing the contents of emails. Sod you are a troll. What other side? The facts are the facts. Always cry "fake news" as smokescreen when the facts don't suit your viewpoints. The Russians always use fronts or intermediaries. They would never admit one of their own government employees met personally with Trump family. All foreign intel agencies do the same thing, otherwise they would be liable. So the CIA trapped Trump Jr to meet with the Russians? Makes absolutely no sense as usual, your stories have no logic whatsoever.

Richard Smith, the political activist whom admitted to the Wall Street Journal in May he attempted to work via Russia is now allegedly said to have committed suicide. Just 10 days after his interview with WSJ. Smells very fishy. I would not be surprised if Russian Intel helped silence him as favor to Trump. WSJ reporter disputes the story that Smith was inclined to kill himself.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/07/14/exclusive-doubt-surfaces-about-suicide-claim-of-clinton-investigator/

I think so far you have presented one thing on this site that has turned out to be correct. Sadly I can't remember what that was with the mountain of incorrect information, guesses, paranoid statements and rants given by you. Natalia doesn't work for the Russian Govt as once again I supply you another Western media release and please read this interesting article. It might help you a little - Browder............but I doubt that - http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/natalia-veselnitskaya-russian-lawyer-met-donald-trump-jr/story?id=48537631

You talk of facts but present unsubstantiated media releases.These aren't facts, they are mere media releases............lol.. ( that's embarrassing ). US media releases bit's of truth when it comes to politics but rarely offer full disclosure unless it's one of their targeted few. Instead of dismissing these stories that I have shown you. Stories that have been investigated and not just printed verbatim. Do a little research to save yourself further embarrassment like this rant you have posted. Is it just an excuse not to take up the bet. You mustn't really believe the rubbish you continuously spew.

This story is a dead duck and your story of Russian Intel silencing Smith takes you to a new level of Russophobia, paranoia, naivety, gullibleness and small mindedness. Logic has no place in your mind and sadly my replies appear to go right over your head.

On better note how is your Doomsday Prepping going...................lol.
#316: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj, Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:08 am
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Sod you are a troll. Not wasting my time even reading your gibberish statements. Smith never wrote notes in ALL CAPS and life insurance policies do not cover suicides. Smith happened to commit suicide 10 days after his interview with Wall Street Journal?

New Republic documents Trump business dealings with Russian mafia figureheads. Trump's relationships with Russia go back 30 years. The Government eventually will do a full audit of all his activities with Russia. Special division of FBI has financial crimes investigation.

https://newrepublic.com/article/143586/trumps-russian-laundromat-trump-tower-luxury-high-rises-dirty-money-international-crime-syndicate

"..Russians spent at least $98 million on Trump’s properties in Florida—and another third of the units were bought by shadowy shell companies."
#317: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:10 am
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DJ if I'm a troll then you must be a mindless fool. You keep referring to media releases like they are proof when they aren't. Obviously education wasn't a high priority where you come from. The Queens English is very easy to understand. It might be too many big words and English might not be your first language - Mexican ? Also it appears you still can't back yourself with that bet. Suggesting you don't believe your rants or the statements from media releases in reality. I have constantly given you proof and you delve in hype.

Life Insurance policies aren't paid in cases of suicide but that too has to be proved. Like what I have been saying to you for some 3 years - facts, evidence and witnesses. Not guessing, paranoia and baseless supposition ( a belief without proof - just for you ). Smith never wrote notes in caps - so. No person commits suicide til they do child...............lol.

If Trump and his family etc are so guilty where are their arrests then. A lack of proof etc, will mean these investigations will go no where. How hard is it for you to understand this or are you just to scared to face a Trump Presidency. Or in the case of Russia - hacking, election interference and bribes where's the prrof ? Don't go giving me more media releases that suggest, say believe us or it appears - this simply doesn't cut the mustard.

Trump has the backing of the military as a whole. Clinton / Soro's and the others have the Intel Community. One reason Trump doesn't trust them and hasn't from the start. Stop embarrassing yourself. New Republic................lol. What comic next kid. Just keep expecting this rubbish from the media to continue to the next elections - smear campaign.

Or is it time for you to admit that you were wrong. As I have when I thought Trump might be good for the rest of the world with his foreign policy, for him to reneged upon it once elected.
#318: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:18 am
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"..Russians spent at least $98 million on Trump’s properties in Florida—and another third of the units were bought by shadowy shell companies." [/quote]

DJ - Russians are business people too. Some with lots of cash to throw about. Check the monies the Clinton Fraudation have received from them to ease your very paranoid mind. Some of the cash was given immediately post Mining deals in the US when Hillary last had some influence within Govt. Also people will invest where they already have a previous good working relationship and if that's Trump's businesses so be it. What's you point but remember use facts and proof not more paranoia, supposition and guess work.

Aren't I the anti American some of you guys have called me. Here I am backing a president I don't like or trust. But you can't condemn a person without evidence people. DJ where is your mind these days.
#319: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj, Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:35 pm
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Real Estate industry is the most corrupt business in the U.S. 10 years ago almost caused Global Financial meltdown. China dumps their monopoly currency manipulated $ in U.S. real estate. They are buying up everything in sight here in California. Approaching majority ownership of many neighborhoods. Russia had already been purchasing U.S. real estate properties for over 30 years.

More from the New Republic article:

..When Trump Tower was built, as David Cay Johnston reports in The Making of Donald Trump, it was only the second high-rise in New York that accepted anonymous buyers.

In 1987, just three years after he attended the closing with Trump, Bogatin pleaded guilty to taking part in a massive gasoline-bootlegging scheme with Russian mobsters. After he fled the country, the government seized his five condos at Trump Tower, saying that he had purchased them to “launder money, to shelter and hide assets.” A Senate investigation into organized crime later revealed that Bogatin was a leading figure in the Russian mob in New York. His family ties, in fact, led straight to the top: His brother ran a $150 million stock scam with none other than Semion Mogilevich, whom the FBI considers the “boss of bosses” of the Russian mafia. At the time, Mogilevich—feared even by his fellow gangsters as “the most powerful mobster in the world”—was expanding his multibillion-dollar international criminal syndicate into America.

...In 1987, on his first trip to Russia, Trump visited the Winter Palace with Ivana. The Soviets flew him to Moscow—all expenses paid—to discuss building a luxury hotel across from the Kremlin.

Over the past three decades, at least 13 people with known or alleged links to Russian mobsters or oligarchs have owned, lived in, and even run criminal activities out of Trump Tower and other Trump properties. Many used his apartments and casinos to launder untold millions in dirty money. Some ran a worldwide high-stakes gambling ring out of Trump Tower—in a unit directly below one owned by Trump. Others provided Trump with lucrative branding deals that required no investment on his part. Taken together, the flow of money from Russia provided Trump with a crucial infusion of financing that helped rescue his empire from ruin
#320: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:00 am
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dj wrote (View Post):

Real Estate industry is the most corrupt business in the U.S. 10 years ago almost caused Global Financial meltdown. China dumps their monopoly currency manipulated $ in U.S. real estate. They are buying up everything in sight here in California. Approaching majority ownership of many neighborhoods. Russia had already been purchasing U.S. real estate properties for over 30 years.

More from the New Republic article:

..When Trump Tower was built, as David Cay Johnston reports in The Making of Donald Trump, it was only the second high-rise in New York that accepted anonymous buyers.

In 1987, just three years after he attended the closing with Trump, Bogatin pleaded guilty to taking part in a massive gasoline-bootlegging scheme with Russian mobsters. After he fled the country, the government seized his five condos at Trump Tower, saying that he had purchased them to “launder money, to shelter and hide assets.” A Senate investigation into organized crime later revealed that Bogatin was a leading figure in the Russian mob in New York. His family ties, in fact, led straight to the top: His brother ran a $150 million stock scam with none other than Semion Mogilevich, whom the FBI considers the “boss of bosses” of the Russian mafia. At the time, Mogilevich—feared even by his fellow gangsters as “the most powerful mobster in the world”—was expanding his multibillion-dollar international criminal syndicate into America.

...In 1987, on his first trip to Russia, Trump visited the Winter Palace with Ivana. The Soviets flew him to Moscow—all expenses paid—to discuss building a luxury hotel across from the Kremlin.

Over the past three decades, at least 13 people with known or alleged links to Russian mobsters or oligarchs have owned, lived in, and even run criminal activities out of Trump Tower and other Trump properties. Many used his apartments and casinos to launder untold millions in dirty money. Some ran a worldwide high-stakes gambling ring out of Trump Tower—in a unit directly below one owned by Trump. Others provided Trump with lucrative branding deals that required no investment on his part. Taken together, the flow of money from Russia provided Trump with a crucial infusion of financing that helped rescue his empire from ruin

There I was thinking politics was the most corrupt business in the US today. All that you all shown me here is exactly what goes on around the world in every city and every country. Whether it's Russian mafia, Chinese Mafia / Triads or corrupt Multinat's selling them selves off as great employers and good for your country - Du Pont, Chevron, Dow, Coca Cola, Dyn, Monsanto etc. The Russian's doing business with Trump........big deal. The Russian's doing business with Clinton's ......big deal. This is your globalization in action. Just look at how countries and businesses are selling weapons to Saudi A that are ending up in ISIS and Al Nusra hands. Not to mention the Yemen conflict that the UN and others are calling human rights abuses, war crimes and crimes against humanity being routinely conducted. What's wrong with your law enforcement doing next to nothing is what I would be asking. It's like the Bush Family - Carlyle Group selling weapons to conflicts undermining Govts around the world. Or the recent US deal selling coal to the Ukraine at 4x times the going rate - making America great again.

It appears you only whinge when your country or you are a victim and don't care about anyone else. You certainly have bigoted views on Russians. You need to experience other cultures and countries and I don't mean Mexico or Canada. Or just grow up and open your eyes.
#321: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:26 am
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Here is a very good foreign policy decision - https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/syrian-rebels-feel-betrayed-by-us-decision-to-end-cia-support-it-will-weaken-americas-influence/2017/07/20/6476f252-6cbc-11e7-abbc-a53480672286_story.html?utm_term=.c4bcc51ed1bb#comments
#322: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj, Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:49 am
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You're an idiot. Rambling troll. Go back to your movie threads you're a pest.
#323: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:16 am
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dj wrote (View Post):

You're an idiot. Rambling troll. Go back to your movie threads you're a pest.

Calm down DJ. It appears you have nothing to say other than Troll or Anti-American when you are wrong . You need to venture outside of your comfort zone a little to see the real world. Rambling........if that's what you call the truth. How many times have I pointed out things to you and the others like - McCain meetings with ISIS and Al Nusra. That the White Helmets were terrorist and not the good guys you believed them to be. Even that the US Polls, media etc were going to be wrong - Trump would win and did. That your little rants over Trump would all come to nothing......and they did. US history of aggression since WW2. Plus much more. Things that you seem not to be aware of.

I'm not sorry If I have upset you. You seem to have truth issues.Your failure to understand the basics of politics, world history, culture, personalities, and general knowledge speaks volumes of your poor schooling and lack of common sense. If I'm a pest it's because you appear to be a stranger of the truth. When confronted with the truth, facts, evidence etc you go off that subject or just never mention it again.........lol.

You must read too many LBGT releases that have poisoned your better judgement.........if you ever possessed such a thing. Enjoy friend.
#324: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima, Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:34 am
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Hey c'mon of course we elected the US president and will elect your new senate next time.
Putin is almighty!

dj wrote (View Post):

You're an idiot. Rambling troll. Go back to your movie threads you're a pest.

that's quite the same what your officials reply on questions regarding proves...
but unfortunately for you an idiot is you.

ahh I forgot to say thank you as without you (not you personally) there won't be the Russian nation once again after 90s for a long time .
#325: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:58 am
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Dima wrote (View Post):

Hey c'mon of course we elected the US president and will elect your new senate next time.
Putin is almighty!

dj wrote (View Post):

You're an idiot. Rambling troll. Go back to your movie threads you're a pest.

that's quite the same what your officials reply on questions regarding proves...
but unfortunately for you an idiot is you.

ahh I forgot to say thank you as without you (not you personally) there won't be the Russian nation once again after 90s for a long time .

Dima you are wasting your time. I have constantly provided evidence and links to media releases on this subject and others. Sadly some people appear to be too far gone for help and even your humour is wasted upon them. That's supposing they even get it. All they do is try to change the subject or jump to the next fake media release in hope a President being removed or hope of the golden nugget on election interference or hackings. To date nothing but they will cling to this hope for the next 3.5 years in their denial.

Really it's quite pathetic and shows how shallow some of become. 17 spy agencies, numerous allied spy agencies - Fives Eyes etc, worlds biggest electronic interception agency - NSA and they can't find one piece of evidence. To a normal person that might suggest there simply is nothing to find.............................lol.
#326: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: mooxe, Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:41 pm
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17 spy agencies... Do those 17 include the DEA and the Coast Guard? They definitely have not found any evidence or hacking! But saying 17 holds more weight than context.

Five Eyes. Did each of these countries come out and claim no evidence? Was New Zealand even searching for any?

Context
Context
Context
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#327: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: JFFulcrum, Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:38 pm
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Dima wrote (View Post):

Hey c'mon of course we elected the US president and will elect your new senate next time.
Putin is almighty!

BTW, Obama was also an our minion! http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/cia-director-mike-pompeo-of-course-russia-interfered-in-the-2016-election-and-the-one-before-that/article/2629307
#328: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:25 am
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mooxe wrote (View Post):

17 spy agencies... Do those 17 include the DEA and the Coast Guard? They definitely have not found any evidence or hacking! But saying 17 holds more weight than context.

Five Eyes. Did each of these countries come out and claim no evidence? Was New Zealand even searching for any?

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Yes 17 Spy Agencies................I know that's really paranoid, take a look for yourself - https://www.businessinsider.com.au/17-agencies-of-the-us-intelligence-community-2013-5?r=US&IR=T#the-central-intelligence-agency-spies-on-foreign-governments-and-organizes-covert-ops-1

Also they haven't found any evidence of Russian hack or electoral interference - that's what we were talking about. They keep saying it's happened but to date they haven't fronted with anything at these investigations. I do believe I said " 17 spy agencies, numerous allied spy agencies - Fives Eyes etc, worlds biggest electronic interception agency - NSA and they can't find one piece of evidence ". No where have I said that all or most were investigating but referred to the number of spy agencies that have that ability - all feed from the same trough. " Like Five Eyes etc " - there is also 14 and 9 Eyes.

Five Eyes members as you obviously aren't aware, aren't permitted to spy domestically upon their own citizens. So the way around this is to have their other member countries like Canada, NZ, Oz or the GB to do their spying. Of which Snowden has revealed on more than one occasion. In late 2013, Canadian federal judge Richard Mosley strongly rebuked the CSIS for outsourcing its surveillance of Canadians to overseas partner agencies. A 51-page court ruling asserts that the CSIS and other Canadian federal agencies have been illegally enlisting FVEY allies in global surveillance dragnets, while keeping domestic federal courts in the dark

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/02/nsa-files-spying-allies-enemies-five-eyes-g8

https://www.rt.com/news/330530-canada-halts-intelligence-sharing-nsa/

New Zealand like the other members countries collect all electronic data including metadata using various methods :
- PRISM – Operated by the NSA together with the GCHQ and the ASD[53][54]
- XKeyscore – Operated by the NSA with contributions from the ASD and the GCSB[55]
- Tempora – Operated by the GCHQ with contributions from the NSA[56][57]
- MUSCULAR – Operated by the GCHQ and the NSA[58]
- STATEROOM – Operated by the ASD, CIA, CSE, GCHQ, and NSA

Was NZ searching / and others - they gather also electronic data as that's where the Domestic spy agencies ( NSA passes it on ) gets a wealth of their electronic intel from. There is so much more in Snowden's and Wikileaks doco's, it's got to be embarrassing for our Govt's that this info is out there. But to find something there has to be something to find - no evidence except extreme paranoia.

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If you need anything else explained just ask.

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#329: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:00 am
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You were right mooxe and DJ about election meddling / interference. My apologies - straight from a US source and every case appears to be correct - https://ww2.kqed.org/lowdown/2017/03/02/a-history-of-u-s-meddling-in-foreign-elections/
#330: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: mooxe, Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:18 pm
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So you're saying the Coast Guard and the DEA did search and found no evidence?
#331: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:15 am
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mooxe wrote (View Post):

So you're saying the Coast Guard and the DEA did search and found no evidence?

Did I say that..............no. I said " 17 spy agencies, numerous allied spy agencies - Fives Eyes etc, worlds biggest electronic interception agency - NSA and they can't find one piece of evidence ". That's not saying Volunteers George Bush acting for the Coast Guard checked emails coming and going from Russia to the US. It's saying they had numerous assets that could find something but as there is nothing to find....................they found nothing. Whoever we do know that the likes of NSA, FBI and some others were and are still looking.......well they say they are.

It's another reds under the beds Russophobia - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdLuNtbSAck

Same old rubbish but still fooling some.
#332: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:41 am
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mooxe - tell me what you thought of the US history of interference in other countries elections. Do you think it's a bit rich / two faced to cry over interference in light of this ? Or is this just more exceptionalism.

In light of this - massive history of interference in others elections. Being world top hacking country 23.96% of all hacks are from the US. There is a more than even chance all of this Russophobia is more propaganda playing on the fears of the good people of the USA. The UN should think about sanctions..............lol. When you write the rules you can also change the rules to suit.
#333: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: mooxe, Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:40 am
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When you say 17 agencies, the Coast Guard and the DEA are included in those 17. So you're either parroting a talking point or you have info on what those two agencies did. If you didn't say that "Did I say that..............no." then list those 17 agencies you are using to make your point.
#334: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:58 pm
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mooxe wrote (View Post):

When you say 17 agencies, the Coast Guard and the DEA are included in those 17. So you're either parroting a talking point or you have info on what those two agencies did. If you didn't say that "Did I say that..............no." then list those 17 agencies you are using to make your point.

You truly are trying to be weird about this and succeeding.They are two of the 17 Agencies if you have read what I have posted, they are listed there. I would suggest you are confusing yourself again. 17 Spy Agencies as listed not by me but by the US Govt who the NSA being the biggest supplier to them of their electronic data. The Coast Guard does have a section dedicated to gathering Intel...........is that news to you. Remember the small issue of illegals cross the border...........not into Canada. But nowhere have I said 17 Spy Agencies were looking for evidence. USA has 17 Spy Agencies that all receive intel from the same trough - NSA. To date no evidence. You have tried to be clever but you not. Once again you have done my job for me. I can't make you look stupid you do it yourself.

Like the transgender business where you just can't admit to being wrong. Read what's in front of you not what you want to see.

You didn't comment on the history of interference I see...................lol. You suffer from a bad case of cherry picking what knowledge / facts you want to see. Talk about denial................lol.
#335: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Schmal_Turm, Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:53 pm
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With 17 or so spy agencies then you can understand the point of the book, Three Felonies A Day: How the Feds Target the Innocent, written by a liberal, Harvey A. Silvergate, with a forward by Alan Dershowitz, write about the kind of society we have become.

From the Amazon site:

The average professional in this country wakes up in the morning, goes to work, comes home, eats dinner, and then goes to sleep, unaware that he or she has likely committed several federal crimes that day. Why? The answer lies in the very nature of modern federal criminal laws, which have exploded in number but also become impossibly broad and vague. In Three Felonies a Day, Harvey A. Silvergate, reveals how federal criminal laws have become dangerously disconnected from the English common law tradition and how prosecutors can pin arguable federal crimes on any one of us, for even the most seemingly innocuous behavior. The volume of federal crimes in recent decades has increased well beyond the statute books and into the morass of the Code of Federal Regulations, handing federal prosecutors an additional trove of vague and exceedingly complex and technical prohibitions to stick on their hapless targets. The dangers spelled out in Three Felonies a Day do not apply solely to “white collar criminals,” state and local politicians, and professionals. No social class or profession is safe from this troubling form of social control by the executive branch, and nothing less than the integrity of our constitutional democracy hangs in the balance.
#336: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: mooxe, Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:36 pm
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Sod I am making note of what you are cherry picking. Why boast that 17 agencies found no info, when we really have no idea if all 17 were tasking with gathering evidence. Its unlikely that some of those agencies were tasked given what their role is.

"Really it's quite pathetic and shows how shallow some of become. 17 spy agencies, numerous allied spy agencies - Fives Eyes etc, worlds biggest electronic interception agency - NSA and they can't find one piece of evidence." You implied they are all looking.

Off-topic onto transgender now. Whoever can make the requirements to serve in a trade, can serve. Having any blanket rule such as no women, no gay, no transgender can serve is wrong. I am not wrong saying transgenders can serve, they already do, they met the requirements to join. You have admitted a bias towards those people with jokes laced through your comments.

With your repeated comments that everyone is paranoid, anti transgender jokes and incessant reposting of the same anti-US anti-West opinion with a weak counterbalance attempt to look fair and unbiased by one post about NZ, you cannot be taken seriously!
#337: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:02 pm
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mooxe wrote (View Post):

Sod I am making note of what you are cherry picking. Why boast that 17 agencies found no info, when we really have no idea if all 17 were tasking with gathering evidence. Its unlikely that some of those agencies were tasked given what their role is.

"Really it's quite pathetic and shows how shallow some of become. 17 spy agencies, numerous allied spy agencies - Fives Eyes etc, worlds biggest electronic interception agency - NSA and they can't find one piece of evidence." You implied they are all looking.

Off-topic onto transgender now. Whoever can make the requirements to serve in a trade, can serve. Having any blanket rule such as no women, no gay, no transgender can serve is wrong. I am not wrong saying transgenders can serve, they already do, they met the requirements to join. You have admitted a bias towards those people with jokes laced through your comments.

With your repeated comments that everyone is paranoid, anti transgender jokes and incessant reposting of the same anti-US anti-West opinion with a weak counterbalance attempt to look fair and unbiased by one post about NZ, you cannot be taken seriously!

I never implied that and never meant that. Read my statement and to see it clearly shows I have commented on the number of assets to which if they was evidence to find they would have found something. What part of that is so hard for you to understand. The 17 Spy Agencies etc have no need to search for what doesn't exist..................lol. Easy even for you.........maybe not DJ. It's my comment and sadly you have taken it out of context even when presented links and explanation.The FBI have been looking they are part of that 17 so yes. Even you must know that. Without drawing you pictures to help you, you appear beyond help.

Transgenders fail on the grounds of mental illness - they suffer from depression as those articles showed you. Easy again.

Anti - Western. I'm from New Zealand that's western the last time I looked. trying using and accepting facts. Our countries have been up to no good fro very long periods of time. NZ post - remember the NZ SAS article, the Dotcom articles etc. You are living in a life of denial. Just admit you have it wrong and move on and stop being so paranoid. End of the day our comments mean what .........................exactly, nothing. They are just informative....well some are.
#338: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: mooxe, Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:00 pm
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Sod - Really it's quite pathetic and shows how shallow some of become. 17 spy agencies, numerous allied spy agencies - Fives Eyes etc, worlds biggest electronic interception agency - NSA and they can't find one piece of evidence.

MOOXE - You implied they are all looking.

Sod - I never implied that and never meant that.

You can have last word, then thread locked.
#339: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj, Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:54 am
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Sod is a troll idiot don't even waste your time. This thread was about Russia. Nobody cares about transgenders less than .001 of the population, you took the bait for diversionary distraction from criminal investigations. Today they announced Paul Mannafort's home was raided by FBI.

Most successful act of international political sabotage in history. USA is almost completely paralyzed politically with constant distractions from criminal investigations. Putin is well aware the achilles heel of Western "democracy" is the $$$ and bribery.

Schmal_Turm - Dershowitz is criminal defense attorney and ACLU fanatic. Criminal defense attorneys always will try to say everyone is innocent. Richard Painter whom was Bush's ethics attorney said it unconstitutional:
...no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.
#340: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98, Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:57 am
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At least mooxe you do listen and try to understand. We simply have far differing views on recent history and current political events. That's not a bad thing. I know I haven't helped with digs and sarcasm. I have given more than fair links and evidence on political events. Whether you chose to open your eyes is up to you ( and no right or wrong ).

DJ - Coming from just about anyone else I might be concerned about your comments. However you are living proof that the brain isn't a vital organ to sustain life. Therefore along with your baseless rants, naive and paranoid thoughts, they show on nearly every post you only provide endless laughs and all at your expense. You are so far out of touch with reality I sometimes think you send these messages from your hospital bed.

The comments on transgenders was between mooxe and myself and didn't really need your below par comments again. You have always had issues with the truth and facts which speaks loudly of your fibre or lack of. " Most successful act of international political sabotage in history. USA is almost completely paralyzed politically with constant distractions from criminal investigations. Putin is well aware the Achilles heel of Western "democracy" is the $$$ and bribery " - here's an example. I'm still waiting for one piece of evidence of Russian interference / hacking during the US elections.

mooxe is right I have often used the word paranoid too often but in your case it's fitting. See I have admitted to being wrong and it's that easy. DJ you still can't / won't back up your rhetoric with that bet. Even your paranoid mind refuses to let you take that bet.........................lol. Trump hasn't picked on the Dorothy's either.
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