Russia - Whats goin on..
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#161: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98,  PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:49 am
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Sounds like more European paranoia again backed up with no evidence. These countries point the finger at Russia continuously, stand a chance of looking like screaming school girls if they keep it up with these accusations and no proof.
#162: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 2:37 pm
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You are probably correct on that Sod. My point of satisfying the Euro's fears was a way of making a point that there is nothing there and really.. Exactly what GOOD, or HARM is a Soviet sub going to do anyway? Does anyone actually think that it would go on an attack mission, or is probing for weaknesses? I imagine the Soviet subs are still the loudest in the world and can be picked up by most any US ship with any AS capabilities. (see Soviet Papa class).
#163: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima,  PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 3:00 am
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johnsilver wrote (View Post):
You are probably correct on that Sod. My point of satisfying the Euro's fears was a way of making a point that there is nothing there and really.. Exactly what GOOD, or HARM is a Soviet sub going to do anyway? Does anyone actually think that it would go on an attack mission, or is probing for weaknesses? I imagine the Soviet subs are still the loudest in the world and can be picked up by most any US ship with any AS capabilities. (see Soviet Papa class).

ahh mate, you are really outdated, Papa class was put out of service in 1988 Smile.
so much has changed since you were in the Navy Wink
#164: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: sod98,  PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 3:52 am
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johnsilver - Totally agree.
#165: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: MajorFrank,  PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 11:02 am
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johnsilver wrote (View Post):
You are probably correct on that Sod. My point of satisfying the Euro's fears was a way of making a point that there is nothing there and really.. Exactly what GOOD, or HARM is a Soviet sub going to do anyway? Does anyone actually think that it would go on an attack mission, or is probing for weaknesses? I imagine the Soviet subs are still the loudest in the world and can be picked up by most any US ship with any AS capabilities. (see Soviet Papa class).


It could be Swedish paranoia, they have a new government stepping in and the Swedish military might be trying to create a 'scene' in order to secure more funding from the new government they feared was going to cut more funding (the new government is center-left).

If there was tangible proof of a sub then yes, I would agree with the Swedes. As there isn't and with the Swedes past history of getting things wrong, I'm not convinced. I guess going to another nations territorial waters is a serious offence, more serious then (accicdentally) breaching their air space. Sending ground troops into their territory is the most serious I guess. But anyway.

The Swedes even thought they had a picture of a Russian saboteur/infiltrator on shore, a guy dressed in black clothing, but it turned out to be a Swedish retiree named Ove who had gone fishing. The whole thing is more like a funny comedy show.

BBC: Sweden called off sub search yesterday
#166: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:57 pm
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Dima wrote (View Post):
johnsilver wrote (View Post):
You are probably correct on that Sod. My point of satisfying the Euro's fears was a way of making a point that there is nothing there and really.. Exactly what GOOD, or HARM is a Soviet sub going to do anyway? Does anyone actually think that it would go on an attack mission, or is probing for weaknesses? I imagine the Soviet subs are still the loudest in the world and can be picked up by most any US ship with any AS capabilities. (see Soviet Papa class).

ahh mate, you are really outdated, Papa class was put out of service in 1988 Smile.
so much has changed since you were in the Navy Wink


You are right have fallen behind in reading, or behind in studying much in Soviet Naval capabilities the last couple of decades Dima, though prior to that and intend no insult to yourself.. The results of Soviet spending to build quite Submarines was not good.. My mention of the Papa class was intentional. It was fast, the fastest in the world, Soviet English name translated to "Golden Egg" because they were so expensive to build, just very noisy and easy to pick up underwater.

I can tell you that Sonar on minesweepers, such as the old boat I was on during the 70's even had the capabilities to ASW duty. Patrol boats are equipped also with it, or were. Not sure how well equipped some of the NATO countries are , but can imagine those dozen McM ships left have some fairly advanced equipment by now.. Hell.. We didn't even have computers back in my day even..

I really doubt submarines (on any force) are of really any use for more than 1 shot, unless the other side has no detection capabilities anyway.
#167: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima,  PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:09 am
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johnsilver wrote (View Post):
You are right have fallen behind in reading, or behind in studying much in Soviet Naval capabilities the last couple of decades Dima, though prior to that and intend no insult to yourself.. The results of Soviet spending to build quite Submarines was not good.. My mention of the Papa class was intentional. It was fast, the fastest in the world, Soviet English name translated to "Golden Egg" because they were so expensive to build, just very noisy and easy to pick up underwater.

read about Kilo diesel subs and the new Graney nuclear subs.

Quote:
I can tell you that Sonar on minesweepers, such as the old boat I was on during the 70's even had the capabilities to ASW duty. Patrol boats are equipped also with it, or were. Not sure how well equipped some of the NATO countries are , but can imagine those dozen McM ships left have some fairly advanced equipment by now.. Hell.. We didn't even have computers back in my day even..

yes, known and well adressed problem, they say it was fixed since Kilo.

Quote:
I really doubt submarines (on any force) are of really any use for more than 1 shot, unless the other side has no detection capabilities anyway.

I think they understood that in USSR times, my father beeing on practice at Liepaya (modern Latvia) Naval base says that the rocket sub he was appointed to was standing at the dock with London being a permanent target for all her ballistic rockets. Guess the other rockets subs were aiming at other objectives all the time so they just needed to fire once, yes.
#168: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:45 am
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Quote:
I think they understood that in USSR times, my father beeing on practice at Liepaya (modern Latvia) Naval base says that the rocket sub he was appointed to was standing at the dock with London being a permanent target for all her ballistic rockets. Guess the other rockets subs were aiming at other objectives all the time so they just needed to fire once, yes.


I should have made it more plain.. Boomer's of any nationality are one shot, no matter how stealthy they are. those missile's breaking surface are going to pinpoint location and they can't run that fast underwater where aircraft won't locate.
#169: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Stwa,  PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:07 pm
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Yada, yada, yada ...

Obama will be go down in American history as one of the smartest presidents ever. He is going to deliver a 1-2 punch that will secure Ukraine for NATO.

And he will not even use a single submarine.

First he will send in the pro Russian jihadies.  Arrow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AT36cbr8C4

Then, for the knockout punch, Obama will send in the gays.  Arrow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB5D07Z1hfU
#170: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: CloseCombatRob,  PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:21 pm
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You can say how Russia are evil for taking Crimea yada yada, heck the people in Crimea prefer to be part of Russia, but whatever the media says about Russia is always heavily biased and over exaggerated, and its not like the US and other NATO countries haven't ever invaded non NATO countries for there own personal greed so to say Russia is evil is like saying, "oh Russia we can do this since were the USA and we do what we want but you can't because your a different nation", also the US is provoking Russia so much recently, so Russia flies a few bombers next to the US and then there's a story about how Russians are evil again, I'm not for war at all, but this is just silly games between the 2 nations if anything, it's like the cold war has started again.
#171: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Stwa,  PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 6:11 am
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Excellent post CloseCombatRob!

I hope above I was able to partially answer what was going on in Russia (or a sebset of Russia), Ukraine.

Here is a video that adequately show what is not going on in Ukraine/Russia.

It is the stated goal of NATO to eliminate the culture of Ukraine, and replace it with Muslims, gays, and Africans. (et al. David Cameron)

It has nothing to do with fascism or communism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5kJJL9BNdM
#172: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: dj,  PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 6:06 pm
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So how Russia is innocent and being oppressed by Fascist puppet state in Ukraine?  It's getting ridiculous.  With the sanctions, collapse of Russian currency and free-falling oil prices...Putin is getting desperate.  

Unbelievable how so many years after WW2, Russia and Ukraine are calling each other Nazi's, making references to Adolf and trying to humiliate POW's in parades much as they did during the war.
#173: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima,  PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:13 pm
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Quote:
So how Russia is innocent and being oppressed by Fascist puppet state in Ukraine?  It's getting ridiculous.

of cause Russia is not oppressed by Ukraine, that would be really ridiculous if it would happen.
But if Ukraine is in state of war with Russia, why do Ukranians planes fly to Russia? Why does Ukraine buy oil, gas and coal from Russia? Why do we have thousands of West Ukranians in Russia hiding from mobilization? Why does Motor-Sich still produce engines for the Russian helicopters?
Is it not strange?
 
Quote:
With the sanctions, collapse of Russian currency and free-falling oil prices...Putin is getting desperate.

people of Russia start getting desperate, Putin seems to be not.
Again, his approval rating circa January 2015 is 85%.

Yesterday, the guy I know decided to go as a volunteer to Donbass as he lost his job and had nothing to loose here...hopefully he will survive.
#174: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:18 am
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Quote:
With the sanctions, collapse of Russian currency and free-falling oil prices...Putin is getting desperate.


I agree with your response on that Dima. merkel has came out early and warned not to do anything to "spook" Putin. She knows there isn't anyone going to stand up to him at the moment. Nobody in Europe for certain, nor anyone in North America until at least 2016.

Putin has a free reign for a couple of years to take back the former Russian states, nobody will interfere in any meaningful way. As long as the Russian economy can hold on, he might as well continue. He's popular enough from within.
#175: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima,  PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:35 am
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johnsilver wrote (View Post):
I agree with your response on that Dima. merkel has came out early and warned not to do anything to "spook" Putin. She knows there isn't anyone going to stand up to him at the moment. Nobody in Europe for certain, nor anyone in North America until at least 2016..

well it's obvious - if US supplies lethal weapons to Ukraine we supply more advanced weapons to LDNR that would just lead to more victories of LDNR.
to change the situation US needs to send specialist with the weapons or it will be same shit as in Iraq vs ISIS.

Quote:
Putin has a free reign for a couple of years to take back the former Russian states, nobody will interfere in any meaningful way. As long as the Russian economy can hold on, he might as well continue. He's popular enough from within.

hope you are correct and it will be only a couple of years for him...

what we all tell to each other here now is that hopefull there will not be a War.
#176: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: johnsilver, Location: Florida PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:05 am
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Quote:
to change the situation US needs to send specialist with the weapons or it will be same shit as in Iraq vs ISIS.


I see it taking time before even sending Kiev government defensive weapons. The US administration won't even send the Kurds but a fraction of needed supplies and they are the only group thus far to repel the isis attackers and the Kurds have only been sent humanitarian supplies. Israel has supposedly sent them more military supplies than has the US.

I don't see Washington confronting Putin until after the 2016 elections, no spine there and Putin knows it. He'll bluster and use words to delay defensive weapons sent to Kiev for awhile, maybe get none shipped period. What has happened foreign policy wise the last 6y regarding the US is a disgrace.
#177: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Drizzt,  PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:59 am
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I think Putin can’t lose his face blatantly abandoning russian people of Ukraine: there is no “URSS” design for what I can understand. Just local nationalism against local nationalism, exploited by “super-powers” in both directions. It's always a matter of nationalism in Europe. I's a really old story.. not a good story. 2016? The same policies, as always.

Drizzt
#178: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima,  PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:12 am
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But if Ukraine is in state of war with Russia, why do Ukranian passenger planes fly to Russia? Why does Ukraine buy oil, gas and coal from Russia? Why do we have thousands of West Ukranians in Russia hiding from mobilization? Why does Motor-Sich still produce engines for the Russian helicopters?
Is it not strange?
#179: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Drizzt,  PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:17 am
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Not sure if you ask me Dima: for how is it the present situation, I agree with you (I have spoken about local nationalism).
My impression is that, after Crimea, some russian people of east Ukraine don't see any kind of reason to don't do the same route as Crimea, and I'm not sure that russian governement, in private, is so happy about this fact. Of course, I don't forget that part of russian reaction (that has brought to Crimea annexion) is a direct consequence of the coup d'etat in Ukraine favoured by western powers to push Nato influence more east.

Drizzt
#180: Re: Russia - Whats goin on.. Author: Dima,  PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:08 pm
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Drizzt wrote (View Post):
Not sure if you ask me Dima: for how is it the present situation, I agree with you (I have spoken about local nationalism).

for most of the Ukranians especially in the West Ukrain, their nationalism ends with mobilization summonses. As after that they drive fast to Russia to work instead of "defending their motherland".
Right now we have around 1 mln refugees from Ukraine. How come if Ukraine has a war with Russia?!

Quote:
My impression is that, after Crimea, some russian people of east Ukraine don't see any kind of reason to don't do the same route as Crimea, and I'm not sure that russian governement, in private, is so happy about this fact. Of course, I don't forget that part of russian reaction (that has brought to Crimea annexion) is a direct consequence of the coup d'etat in Ukraine favoured by western powers to push Nato influence more east.

the Ukranian agency GfK made a poll in Crimea last month http://www.gfk.com/ua/documents/presentations/gfk_report_freecrimea.pdf that shows 82% of Crimeans fully support joining Russia with 11% more generally support so 93% in total.
also from there: 21% got more income after joining Russia, 30% most likely got more income and 35% have same income.

Edit: and a Bloomberg article about this poll http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-02-06/one-year-later-crimeans-prefer-russia
Close Combat Series -> The Mess


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