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#1: Meuse 3.5, my review, thoughts, etc Author: Uberdave, Location: Kansas, USA

Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:59 pm
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My review for Meuse mod for CC TLD (ver 3.5).

All in all, one of the more polished mods out there. Tejzsd has spent years refining it and making it even better. I completed the GC as the French vs German AI. Many good features and cool stuff. Lack of aggressive AI kills the enjoyment of a GC, however. I won easily by Eve of the 13th (see screen below).

Cohesion: Axis 38%, Allies 84%
French Losses: 391 KIA, 339 WIA, 18 armor, 0 vehicles, and 20 guns.
German Losses: 612 KIA, 503 WIA, 119 armor (!), 30 vehicles, and 0 guns.

Likes:
-(Medals) Best unit award goes to a 75mm gun crew which achieved 7 tank and vehicles kills at Pouillon, surviving several battles (and the GC; screen below).
-Love the roofs!! Very realistic and elegant...very French! These are new and not the same stock roofs I witnessed the last time I gave Meuse a spin (back in 2007).
-Like the morn/mid/eve designations on the dates.
-Most unit pics were excellent and gave good visual impressions.
-Rank mod included! I really like this sub-mod, as it gives a quick visual guide to rank and command.
-Grenades and Molotovs were very effective vs German armor, unlike most mid/late war mods. Even took out a few PzIVs with them!
-Spahis! These bad-ass infantry were comparable to the US Rangers in BO, as evidenced by their tenacious defense and ability to sustain morale and counterattack.
-(Elements) Like the 'rocky debris' effect created when a stone fence was crushed by a tank. Was this in the classic version?
-Diverse selection of German and French units.

Observations:
-Design of the Strat Map (using the classic CC5 template) makes the GC interesting, as Germans are entering from the SE corner and seem to have a narrow angle through which to advance.
-Strategic option to blow a bridge is a double-edged sword.

Bugs/fixes:
-2x CTD @ 00:00.
-1x CTD when 'next' to the following turn (from morn to mid on the 13th).
-(Sound) Illumination round has sound cue that is of an airplane whizzing by.
-Beobachter (FO) replicated in 1/1 PzD FPool.
-Beobachter in 1/1 not appearing in battle after being manually placed in German active roster prior to battle (??? - never seen this before). Tested this in a single battle and it worked fine. Also noticed that if they are placed in the active force pool, they are subtracted from the FPool tally...even though they werent killed in battle and never participated to begin with.
-Campaign text error: "Campaign has 23 thirds of a day remaining" (?)
-H38 37mm duplicated in FPool of 14/4eDLC.
-AMR 35 leader also duplicated in FPool of 14/4.
-AMR 35 25mm duplicated in FPool of 5/lereDLC
-Some vehicle shadows too small or skewed (P-19 Mortier)

Gripes:
-As with other mods and the base game engine, the AI simply cannot attack effectively. The GC vs German AI was a no-contest. Maps like Houx turned out to be turkey-shoot, as I slaughtered countless German vehicles and infantry as they bumbled around on the side of the river. Other maps, like Florenville and Pouillon were easy to defend, simply camping and ambushing Germans as they buzzed towards VLs (see screens below). I forced a disband of 3 German BGs in the first two turns.
-One map in particular had a bridge that was accidentally blown, trapping the Germans on the other side for countless battles, only to be slaughtered like sheep. Frustrating, as I had to keep defending in a 'lost cause' scenario.
-As with other mods, AI doesn't seem to use smoke engineers (or smoke itself) effectively.
-Vehicles appeared to be ported from classic CC3. Very dated and often distorted looking. Some (P-19 AC 25mm) had no definition on their chassis, and I couldn't tell what it was.
-ROF on French 60mm mortar is too fast. Its literally out of ammo within two or three minutes if left unchecked.
-25mm Gun (Fr) does not have a rank pic at the bar on the bottom of screen during battle. I noticed this seems to be an issue with small, crew-served weapons. I'm assuming it means the team doesn't have a designated leader or commander.
-Sepia-toned unit pics not as easy on the eyes as are bold b/w photos.
-Arty support button looks crudely pasted in.

Questions:
-Does anyone know what determines the length of time smoke continues to be effective? I don't remember seeing anything in the data, and I wonder if its somewhere in the exe file.
-How common were 'Tromblons' (rifle grenades) and were they issued to French troops widely? Or is this a compromise; a way to beef up their limited AT defenses? Almost every French infantry team is equipped with them. Maybe I'm wrong, but my understanding is that rifle grenades were not commonly used by most of the armies until mid-war.
-The blurry Nazi flag on PzIIs...was that historical or just an artistic variation?
-Font mismatch? 'Ammo' and 'Fuel' listings on BGs have WAR font?
-A general question, what exactly does an "overrun attack" mean? I'm guessing its indicating a morale compromise among infantry who get too close to objects identified as vehicles, especially tanks?

Suggestions:
-While there is a H2H GC seperate from the traditional one, it could be further customized into a France vs AI or Germany vs AI GC. I created one for the French, removing about 8 of their BGs, but haven't tried it yet.
-Meuse would be an excellent mod to port to LSA!!! It could take advantage of the presence of bridges and the accomodation of 'static BGs' for the French. One could also limit the amount of troops available to each side. This could limit the Germans from having too much armor, or limit the French BGs to only 1.5 or 2 platoons instead of the full three.
-(Sound) Grenade could have 'pull the pin and throw' sound instead of generic explosion.
-(Sound) HHL could be updated as with grenade above.
-New vehicles! I'd love to see a Panhard with detail and defined lines, or Panzers that look larger and more menacing.
-Medals placed along the top of the soldier screen would be helpful in determining the prestige of the award.
-Re: Unit icons during the zoom-out deployment phase screen. Gold borders on HQ units would be helpful to distinguish them from others (they all look like French flags!).
-While I like the French voice-overs, a variety of French speakers in the cues would make it more realistic. The same guy speaks very well, but he can't be everywhere at once!
-Sound could use an overhaul, as most weapon sounds are old CC3 baggage. (Ex: PzBu38 is weak and could sound more like a meaty, AT rifle).
-How about a Vetmod? :)

4/5 Stars!

PS, Just read another thread where maps were introduced by SL...and spoke of porting it to LSA. Excellent...any new word on vers 4.0? Exclamation

#2: Re: Meuse 3.5, my review, thoughts, etc Author: Uberdave, Location: Kansas, USA

Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:02 pm
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Florenville slaughter

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#3: Re: Meuse 3.5, my review, thoughts, etc Author: Uberdave, Location: Kansas, USA

Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:03 pm
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Houx slaughter

Houx-destroyedPz.jpg

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#4: Re: Meuse 3.5, my review, thoughts, etc Author: Uberdave, Location: Kansas, USA

Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:03 pm
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Pouillon, more slaughter

Pouillon-moretankKOs.jpg

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#5: Re: Meuse 3.5, my review, thoughts, etc Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada

Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:42 am
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Thanks for the feedback/review Uberdave!

What level where the sides set at for your GC?

#6: Re: Meuse 3.5, my review, thoughts, etc Author: Uberdave, Location: Kansas, USA

Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 8:21 pm
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Thanks, Teszjd

For my CC mod reviews I always play as the Allies using the hardest settings...15 min battles, FM ON, Hero for me, Recruit for AI, no options checked under my side. I limit armor and vehicles to only two units in Infantry/AB BGs, and 1 platoon/column for armored/mech/recon BGs. I try to give the Axis BG the toughest set of units against what I have (such as 2 units with good AT capability for each tank I have). I avoid giving them guns or open-topped vehicles when the map has lots of large, open areas, and I avoid giving them too much armor when its a city map or narrow roads through the Ardennes.

I also forgot to add that I use Small Soldier mod '95'. I find that its much better in terms of realism (especially in relation to vehicles and buildings) than the stock sizes. Went well with Meuse.

#7: Re: Meuse 3.5, my review, thoughts, etc Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada

Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 2:45 am
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Would have recommended almost exactly that but for the side. I think the human player should be the side that is attacking....

I agree with you on the smaller soldier mod, so it is already included in Meuse Mod.

Last edited by Tejszd on Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:03 am; edited 1 time in total

#8: Re: Meuse 3.5, my review, thoughts, etc Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada

Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:25 pm
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Quote:

Bugs/fixes:
-2x CTD @ 00:00.
-1x CTD when 'next' to the following turn (from morn to mid on the 13th).

An exe issue

Quote:

-(Sound) Illumination round has sound cue that is of an airplane whizzing by.

I can look at this. I believe I used the CC5 sound file unchanged which would not have a sound for illumination (which must have a replaced another sound as the weapon sounds line up/work).

Edit: this is a weird as sometimes it is right and other times not???

Quote:

-Beobachter in 1/1 not appearing in battle after being manually placed in German active roster prior to battle (??? - never seen this before). Tested this in a single battle and it worked fine. Also noticed that if they are placed in the active force pool, they are subtracted from the FPool tally...even though they werent killed in battle and never participated to begin with.

I saw this when testing Bloody Omaha for TLD and reported it to Matrix but they could not replicate it in the base game so it was never fixed. Only suggestion I rec'd was the computer tried to place it in a spot it could not be put and thus removed the unit but no explanation why it doesn't just try another spot.

Quote:

-Campaign text error: "Campaign has 23 thirds of a day remaining" (?)

The exe counts down the days in the Campaign but in the mod days are actually a third of a day (morn, mid and eve) I tried to reword the message to make it accurate

Quote:

-Beobachter (FO) replicated in 1/1 PzD FPool.
-H38 37mm duplicated in FPool of 14/4eDLC.
-AMR 35 leader also duplicated in FPool of 14/4.
-AMR 35 25mm duplicated in FPool of 5/lereDLC

I can look at these but I bet while the team/vehicle names match the experience and or morale of the crews are different

Quote:

-Some vehicle shadows too small or skewed (P-19 Mortier)

Can be looked at but vehicles are a definite skill I'm lacking

Last edited by Tejszd on Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:39 am; edited 1 time in total

#9: Re: Meuse 3.5, my review, thoughts, etc Author: Tejszd, Location: Canada

Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:28 pm
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Quote:

Gripes:
-As with other mods and the base game engine, the AI simply cannot attack effectively. The GC vs German AI was a no-contest. Maps like Houx turned out to be turkey-shoot, as I slaughtered countless German vehicles and infantry as they bumbled around on the side of the river. Other maps, like Florenville and Pouillon were easy to defend, simply camping and ambushing Germans as they buzzed towards VLs (see screens below). I forced a disband of 3 German BGs in the first two turns.

I would recommend against the AI that players play the attacking side

Quote:

-One map in particular had a bridge that was accidentally blown, trapping the Germans on the other side for countless battles, only to be slaughtered like sheep. Frustrating, as I had to keep defending in a 'lost cause' scenario.

I have a newer version of the Dinant map that adds another way across for infantry (though it will still be a bottle neck for the AI). If I do an update for TLD/WAR I may put in.

Quote:

-As with other mods, AI doesn't seem to use smoke engineers (or smoke itself) effectively.

An exe issue

Quote:

-Vehicles appeared to be ported from classic CC3. Very dated and often distorted looking. Some (P-19 AC 25mm) had no definition on their chassis, and I couldn't tell what it was.

Not sure where the original mod makers got the vehicles from. I changed the size of a few of them as they were not consistent but doing all new vehicles I can't do.

Quote:

-ROF on French 60mm mortar is too fast. Its literally out of ammo within two or three minutes if left unchecked.

DONE, made it slightly slower.

Quote:

-25mm Gun (Fr) does not have a rank pic at the bar on the bottom of screen during battle. I noticed this seems to be an issue with small, crew-served weapons. I'm assuming it means the team doesn't have a designated leader or commander.

Quote:

-Sepia-toned unit pics not as easy on the eyes as are bold b/w photos.

In LSA I will change to a gold/yellow border around the selected unit

Quote:

-Arty support button looks crudely pasted in.

DONE

#10: Re: Meuse 3.5, my review, thoughts, etc Author: Volksjager_cn, Location: Washington state, USA

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:38 am
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Hi Tejszd,

Thank you for updating this mod. This mod is one major reason for me to go back to Close Combat series after 4 years of not playing. After playing this latest Meuse mod, I did notice some of my previous recommendations were implemented. Great. Very Happy

I do notice one issue while playing the German in grand campaign. On day 2, one French BG re-appear at the eastern most map (Wresse-sor-Semois) while I already fully control the second lines of maps. The French BG appear out of no where, I believe this particular BG was disbaned at the previous day.

Thanks

#11: Re: Meuse 3.5, my review, thoughts, etc Author: Uberdave, Location: Kansas, USA

Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:47 pm
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Awesome, thanks for the feedback, Teszjd!

I'd love to paint some new vehicles for the mod, especially the LSA port. But my time is pretty stretched with other projects. Maybe down the road, I'll let you know.

I totally agree about playing the attacking army vs AI in CC. I'm just testing all mods as the Allies.

Looking forward to the LSA version!

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