Post your Strategies!
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Close Combat Series -> The Mess
#21: Re: Post your Strategies! Author: vobbnobb,  PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:16 pm
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Hide your tanks in the forest or under a tree. They are a lot harder spot and hit by shells and small arms in that shadowy cover rather than in the open, especially half tracks and armored cars and open carriage tanks like Marder variants and M10 wolverine. Watch your speed in them as you can break axels and lose tracks if you go too fast through fast through that terrain. There will be times you will lose tank crew to small arms fire, but if you can hardly spot them in the shadows, the enemies  chances of hitting someone does go down drastically as suppression and panic will also.

Last edited by vobbnobb on Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:34 am; edited 1 time in total
#22: Re: Post your Strategies! Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:47 pm
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I cant say for sure that speed has anything to do with vehicles getting immobilized inside a heavily wooded area as I've always used slow for movement,but I have seen many times I can make it through with less problems if I use every way point available, and just avoid the tree trunks.
#23: Re: Post your Strategies! Author: vobbnobb,  PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 4:38 am
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platoon_michael wrote (View Post):
I cant say for sure that speed has anything to do with vehicles getting immobilized inside a heavily wooded area as I've always used slow for movement,but I have seen many times I can make it through with less problems if I use every way point available, and just avoid the tree trunks.


Sure it does.. (As it would with any vehicle that have axels, speed in rough areas is what breaks it) I have noticed sneak mode rarely breaks anything. Move mode breaks sometimes and move fast almost always breaks something. I have also witnessed tanks coax/bow mg problems and crew trying to repair or gun jammed message as well in thick wooded areas. The pre-planed movement dots are what I use as well.
#24: Re: Post your Strategies! Author: Range10,  PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 10:10 pm
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Does anyone have ideas to make the AI decision making any better? I understand the approach of making the AI's troop quality better and so forth, but that does not up the level of decision making, does it?
#25: Re: Post your Strategies! Author: platoon_michael, Location: Right behind you PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:36 am
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About AI in CC re-releases
Per Steve Mclair at Matrix

Battle plans

The initial state is the base battle plan from Campaign.txt, for the given BG matchup (i.e. infantry vs. armor, etc.)

This base plan will be adjusted up or down one level of aggressiveness based on:
1.the aggressiveness of the commander
2.the 'depth' of the battlegroup (how many teams it has left in its force pool)
3.the strength ratio of the two sides, which is a value arrived at by evaluating all the teams for each side. A Panther tank is worth far more than a sniper team, for example.
4.whether or not the enemy is winning the operation/campaign.
5.in addition to this, there is a final check that is made -- if the battlegroup is /just/ entering the map this turn, it will always start with a minimum of a limited attack, to try and take territory. If a battlegroup is in position on a map and the enemy has just moved onto it, the battlegroup will start with a maximum of 'defend' aggressiveness.

When attacking the AI will choose a Victory Location as its ultimate objective.
1.For an 'All Out Attack' this will (generally) be the VL the AI wants to use to leave the map. So it will attack all the way across the map from where it started.
2.A 'Limited Attack' tends to aim for capturing VLs near the center of the map.
3.A 'Probing Attack' means the AI wants to capture one VL near its starting locations.
4. Defend = Try to hold as many of its VLS as it can.
5. Survive = Only try to hold its exit VL so it can retreat off the map.

Commander's qualities

Aggression is how much the commander favors attack over defense. Higher aggression makes the AI more likely to attack, and more likely to make an all-out attack when it does so. Low aggression makes the AI more likely to defend, and more likely to use a limited attack when it does attack.

Eg. -5 Aggression = Be defensive in most situations and make only cautious attacks. Defensive posture with a small reserve (-5 Caution) simply means most of the teams are forward to meet the enemy at the start.

Caution is used to determine how many and what teams are assigned to the reserve group, if any. The higher the commander's caution, the more teams he will want in his reserve group .

Eg.If you want more AI teams on the front line fighting, give them a -5 caution. So -5 caution would cause the maximum number of teams to be committed at the start.

Charisma has a minor effect on the morale of teams at the start of the battle. It is usually not significant enough to notice unless you've fought a BG down to near exhaustion. It has no effect on tactics or attack/defense decisions.

Tactical plans are the basic strategies the AI uses -- frontal attack, flanking attack, double envelopment, etc. The worse the commander's tactics score the less of these he has to choose, and the simpler the plans are. Low tactics levels will result in piecemeal attack and defense, or simple 'line up and fight' strategies. This does not effect aggressiveness directly, just what plan is chosen once an 'attack' or 'defend' posture is decided upon.

AI Internal Groups

The AI divides its teams into internal groups:
1.a recon group,
2.a support group
3.a reserve group
4.1-3 combat groups.
Some of these groups may have zero teams in a weak battle group.

Daniel

PS. "If a battlegroup is in position on a map and the enemy has just moved onto it, the battlegroup will start with a maximum of 'defend' aggressiveness." Nevertheless, AI's infantry battlegroup attacked my armour battlegroup in the first turn, losing its only Stug III.
The initial battle plan of the BG should be 'defend', but the battle plan is re-evaluated by the AI as the game goes on. If the Infantry BG had a large advantage of strength/depth and/or an aggressive commander it could decide to switch over to the attack after a few minutes.
#26: Re: Post your Strategies! Author: Range10,  PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:05 am
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Platoon Michael,

Thank you for this information. It very useful in the discussion of strategies and confirms the suspicion that the CC AI is formulaic and predictable.

My question is - Could the good folks on these forums, who have enjoyed the CC franchise and would like to see it improve, come up with a better solution?

Clearly H2H allows for more flexibility, enterprise, creativity, etc. But for many of us, due to crazy time schedules and other challenges, playing against the AI is how we know CC.

What if the forum could develop a 'super AI?' Something that CC fanatics could play against on line whenever the opportunity allowed. Something that 'learned' from playing human opponents and got progressively better much like a chess player does by seeing lots of moves and counter-moves. In the era of 'big data' and 'Watson,' it would seem that a cloud hosted AI could develop really challenging tactics for every map and every scenario and then combine that with knowledge of how particular players set up, use terrain, attack/defend, etc. etc.

You could log on at any time of the day, from anywhere, enter the CC title and battle/campaign desired, and go for it. I'd pay for membership in that.
#27: Re: Post your Strategies! Author: Schmal_Turm,  PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 10:38 pm
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When my forces are in play I try to conceal ALL of my forces, including the armor, by committing them far enough away so that they are effectively out of site. That includes behind buildings and far into the woods. Any armor that is spotted is liable to be hit by any type of fire, including artillery, which will immobilize if not destroy. That can effectively put it out of operation. After my infantry have a chance to spot the enemy armor then I try to move up in "sneak" mode in order to be able to shoot as soon as I am able to spot the enemy. I try to take on the forces piecemeal as I find that my odds decrease the more pieces I have to take on. One thing I have noticed is that if the targeting dot is only a darkened green it is still enough to take out the enemy which also seems to have some trouble making out where the fire is coming from.

To make this work really effectively I generally make armor and AT guns "hot keys" starting with the largest gun, with the armor first, from 1-9. If I have any mortars I put them on the opposite end from 9-7, or whatever you need. I will also put MGs on a hot key if I have any available.  

I have been wondering how often immobilized vehicles are put back in the battle roster. I noticed that a vehicle "tracked" by hitting a tree or something did come back but I was wondering if that is different than a AT shell. My mind set is that any damage done to a vehicle is liable to make it become a casualty in battle. Being that I am usually playing the Germans and they generally have a limited amount of armor I try to be especially careful when using them in battle, even trying to move them out of an artillery barrage if possible.
#28: Re: Post your Strategies! Author: DoktorPaj, Location: Norrköping PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 12:16 am
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I use small low value units to bait the enemy artillery and mortars early in the battle. By ordering a cheap team to open fire on the first enemy I spot they will often use their artillery barrage and sometimes fire with other concealed units, giving away their positions.
#29: Re: Post your Strategies! Author: vobbnobb,  PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 7:42 pm
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Shooting on the move is at least 75% less effective if the tank is still or sneak mode. Why? Well the majority of  tanks just didn't have the gyros to do that as they can today. Sure you can fire on the move and be effective at short range but at longer ranges it is a problem.
(sherman did and I think there was a German tank that did as well)Even with gyros they were NOT that great I mean this was the 40's here. Everything had to be compensated still for manually firing. Moving and firing on flat roads or surfaces makes the hit percentage rise as well as there are no slopes or angles for gunner to compensate for.
#30: Re: Post your Strategies! Author: Stwa,  PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:01 am
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As a general rule, I only use indirect fire with mortars.

I let the troops and vehicles decide when and why to fire. It is more fun that way.
#31: Re: Post your Strategies! Author: vobbnobb,  PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:28 pm
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Friendly tank mortars are not just to mask tanks from enemy fire. enemy soldiers won't shoot at your tanks unless the turret is open, but they will at your soldiers crossing a road, use your tank smoke mortar to cover a road for other friendly troops to cross. Loading a shell for smoke takes longer and if an enemy tank approaches you don't want to be caught with a smoke round in the chamber.  Plus there is more shells for the smoke mortars than actual cannon smoke rounds.

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#32: Re: Post your Strategies! Author: vobbnobb,  PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 2:57 am
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Many tanks have serious problems aiming climbing or descending hills.  You will notice "steep angle" on the crews status.. Trying to take one out on a hill will be a fine example of using the terrain to your advantage.

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#33: Re: Post your Strategies! Author: vobbnobb,  PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 4:11 am
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Air Support

Know what kind of air support you have, bombers are better than fighters and vise versa in certain situation. You will have to know what types of ammo are on board
(it is usually stated in the manual). Never call in a fighter to attack a wooded or greatly protection area. Chances are the strike will do little or nothing at all. If that's what's available on the the strike screen. The event text box will show you what kind is in your area for support.

Use a recon team to spot for the aircraft (make enemy visible) as I have found it increases the accuracy of the hit. You don't have to use the air support right away, wait until the enemy moves out of cover, troops stand up to run or walk and vehicles starting to move would be the perfect time. Move your right mouse click  over the area of attack if you see a "poor" cover display and enemy is there it is an excellent spot for an airstrike. If you see great or excellent maybe you should wait for the target to expose itself or select a better one.

When to use Bombers to bomb
A moving or sitting tank in the open is almost a guaranteed kill with a bomber. When I say in the open I mean with no protection from trees.
Large number of AT or AA guns in one close together area. Use recon or a sniper in a multi story building like a tower to spot locations of them also works well with mortar artillery  barrages this way.
Large number of troops hiding in town buildings, that you need to enter.
A large number of vehicles tanks or troops moving down a road or across an open field

When to use Fighters to strafe
Strafe AT or AA guns in the open that may be a threat to your armor or troops
Hard surfaced roads
Troops running or walking and/or light vehicles moving on a road or in an open field
Some wooden buildings and other lightly protected areas
#34: Re: Post your Strategies! Author: vobbnobb,  PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 3:11 am
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Mortars And Recon work together.

Use smoke mortars to provide recon teams some cover far away while crossing open terrain to capture flags in the 'move' command AI will use the cover greatly. Don't forget you can throw smoke to cover as well as use the mortar smoke cover. Throw smoke into areas that have 'poor' labeled on terrain, throwing it into great cover will just waste it and leave you less cover. Have a bright green line to throw so it lands at the area you want.

Use the same recon team to spot targets in LOS for the mortar HE to make the mortar shots hit the target better.
#35: Re: Post your Strategies! Author: vobbnobb,  PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 4:10 am
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Your mortars possibly have an effect on enemy tanks accuracy while shooting at your team. No matter if mortar can penetrate the tank or not. Unconfirmed but most likely.

Last edited by vobbnobb on Sat Jul 11, 2015 7:38 am; edited 1 time in total
#36: Re: Post your Strategies! Author: vobbnobb,  PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 7:36 am
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Shooting  enemy tanks and AT pieces either abandoned and working / damaged or immobile making them explode or catch on fire (a real tactic for germans in WW2) which can be done as allies, prevents your vehicles from being fixed and reused after the battle in campaign mode. Manual in some cc games states they can be fixed, if they are not damaged bad, so you better be destroying them completely with indirect fire.

unconfirmed but most likely.
#37: Re: Post your Strategies! Author: mooxe,  PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:59 pm
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vobbnobb wrote (View Post):
I would like to know if it's possible to hold the enemy in center of a map while cutting off supplies by taking outer roads that lead off map is possible until the moral and ammo run low for a mass surrender a couple battle later.


Controlling the the road network is how grand campaigns are won.
#38: Re: Post your Strategies! Author: vobbnobb,  PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:22 am
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FRONTLINE WWII: Rifle Platoon Tactics - This was made after the war.

This was really neat, much planing before entering a town.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnTZbx89a2M

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#39: Re: Post your Strategies! Author: ke_mechial,  PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:22 pm
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vobbnobb wrote (View Post):
FRONTLINE WWII: Rifle Platoon Tactics - This was made after the war.

This was really neat, much planing before entering a town.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnTZbx89a2M


Thanks for sharing vobbnobb! excellent finding.

It is actually nice to see, the real commanders planned the same way just like a CC player. Take that building, cover there, advance, etc. In game, it would be great to be able to give commands to teams just like this before the battle began. I wish in the next release.

However, I suppose during real WWII operations, commanders did not have enough time to plan everything that elaborately with the pressure from seniors to seize an objective very quickly.
#40: Re: Post your Strategies! Author: vobbnobb,  PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:49 pm
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ke_mechial wrote (View Post):
Thanks for sharing vobbnobb! excellent finding.

It is actually nice to see, the real commanders planned the same way just like a CC player. Take that building, cover there, advance, etc. In game, it would be great to be able to give commands to teams just like this before the battle began. I wish in the next release.





You have plenty of time in the setup phase to do just that and can plan it in cc by renaming the teams, getting rid of specific units and replacing them with a certain unit better for the task, (don't always take what the computer automatically has for you on the battle, YOU are in charge) and sectioning them off for the areas they will assault or cover or defend.

ke_mechial wrote (View Post):


However, I suppose during real WWII operations, commanders did not have enough time to plan everything that elaborately with the pressure from seniors to seize an objective very quickly.




The real thing, would be different like you say even if it is planned it sometimes does not go the right way.
Close Combat Series -> The Mess


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