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Good see you modding again. Unfortunately, I see GTC as a death game, the IA is bad and the multiplayer is worse. Bloody First is now the next step. |
Dima wrote (View Post): | ||
GTC is the best CC so far. as far as I heard The Bloody First will not be a success... |
Nomada_Firefox wrote (View Post): |
If GTC is the best CC so far, the CC are dead because it is a piece of shit with a very bad IA as all the other CC with exception from the CC2 and the multiplayer does not run. I have made a mod for GTC but it was a lose of time because when you make a mod for 4 players, it is not too fun. My unique reward was return to look the CC games, enough but I could get the same with less work. |
Dima wrote (View Post): |
GTC is the best CC so far. as far as I heard The Bloody First will not be a success... |
Dima wrote (View Post): |
[quote]as far as I heard The Bloody First will not be a success... |
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Somewhere I read that too, I just cant remember where. The project is in a mess? |
Stwa wrote (View Post): |
Hey Firefox,
I hope you are doing well. I have noticed your interest in this title and with any luck, the project will go gold. [quote] My hope is that this title obsoletes everything before it, but there have been other 3D attempts where this did not happen. |
Tejszd wrote (View Post): | ||
So the added features in PiTF/GTC outweigh the lost features of LSA? - ability to change individual teams? - ability to attack from 2 VL's when you have 2 BG's on a map - ability for a 2nd BG to lend units to the frontline BG - ability to play H2H without going through a Matrix/Slitherine forum/server |
Stwa wrote (View Post): |
For the record, the addition from buildings at CC made at first place at 3D is not new. I used some like this at my Star Wars mod years ago. Even I used a 3D map editor for the maps........ |
Dima wrote (View Post): | ||||
yes, LSA sux. |
Tejszd wrote (View Post): |
. Maybe I just need a higher res monitor?? |
Tejszd wrote (View Post): |
GtC does have some newer features that put it ahead of LSA; camouflage, mortar targeting, vehicles carrying troops, towing guns, and some do consider the ability to not change individual units a plus |
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But in addition to the features lost from LSA I don't know if I'm a fan of the larger scale maps (I thought I would be in favour 1 scale or less different scales) but I do no like how you see less of the map. Maybe I just need a higher res monitor?? |
Pzt_Crackwise wrote (View Post): |
Sorry to say, but GtC has a very messed up multiplayer. Start an operation with a human opponent and come back and report here your crash ratio to the battles launched.
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Nomada_Firefox wrote (View Post): |
Multiplayer---------------------> A piece of shit. IA--------------------------------->Another piece of shit. Big maps------------------------->I see a lot of people lately telling how they would like smaller maps and clearly the IA would be better in them. People playing the game---->Very few. |
Nomada_Firefox wrote (View Post): |
You can mod all you want, at least you can be how nobody go to pay you as you tried at a first moment......
I. |
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Manoi wrote (View Post): |
This topic is about the Stalingrad mod, not on the best choice of CC version for a mod. If nobody will play it, too bad for us but we assume this choice.
And please Stwa and Nomada : don't presume or assert any things that you are not sure only for the pleasure of teasing some conflicts. Thanks |
Stwa wrote (View Post): |
I also ASSERT, that you think all work (mods?) are entitled to salary. I disagree, but suggested a possible method of payment, PRESUMABLY by Matrix. |
Stwa wrote (View Post): |
Then they are creeps!
OK, it has been awile for me. But here goes the map size thing again. I have spoke on this many times in the past. For WW2 ... In deployment tiles (which I believe equate to 24m square) even in the pevious scale. 18x18 - 20x20 = large map 15x15 - 17x17 = medium map 12x12 - 14x14 = small map For CCMT I initially used 25x25 = large map = 600 meters square. An original CCMT map being 4800x4800 pixels / 40 deployment tiles per side = 120 pixels square per deployment tile. An element being 40 pixels square? 600 meters square would be a goodly size for any infantry only conflict, and considered very large for any map containing plenty of obstructions found in a city like Stalingrad. The main conflict is large maps could be needed to satisfy the needs of the campaign game, which could be in direct conflict with using the same map for a single battle, and of course, single battles are used many times for multiplayer. The fact that you cannot have 2 sets of VL (one for campaign games) and (one for single battle and multi player) presents the most formidable challenge. |
Stwa wrote (View Post): |
600 meters square would be a goodly size for any infantry only conflict, and considered very large for any map containing plenty of obstructions found in a city like Stalingrad.
The main conflict is large maps could be needed to satisfy the needs of the campaign game, which could be in direct conflict with using the same map for a single battle, and of course, single battles are used many times for multiplayer. . |
Manoi wrote (View Post): | ||
every work deserves salary but I have understood now that my best reward will be the satisfaction of the (eventual) players... |
Nomada_Firefox wrote (View Post): |
At the end, you should not try sell us BF as worse than GTC. From BF we do not know too much and from GTC we know everything. |
Drizzt wrote (View Post): |
to Manoi: I had misunderstood about Vls (I thought you speak about also the normal Vls). Now it's clear. In this case.. Yes, east: maybe not all toghether so much at east (not too much near one each other), but anyway yes, all in the "second part" of the rectangle.
About square shape and IA: I agree with you. The maps of my examples are rectangles "more high", but yes, also them can be less competitive than a "classic" rectangle map. I think that the important thing it's don't carry to the extreme this concept (map rectangles really too low), for don't lose the possibility to flank the enemy or sneak behind him. Anyway, I have trust in your judgement. Drizzt |
Nomada_Firefox wrote (View Post): |
??? I work on TBF! |
Manoi wrote (View Post): | ||
If you work at BF, why are you speaking bad about it? |
Pzt_Crackwise wrote (View Post): |
Firefox, I think Manoi opened this thread to get input for his mod. No need to start an unnecessary flame war here. Send him a private message or something instead, if you really want to ask him other stuff. |
Manoi wrote (View Post): | ||||||
People sayed how it would not be a success and you did not defend the game. Just you were selling the good points from GTC. One thing which I can understand. But not about BF.;) Pzt_Crackwise, are you a moderator? you are nobody for say to the people what they must speak. [quote]You do not want maps like some of those in CC4 which were small and lacked cover which resulted in immediate fire fights between soldiers/tanks and then artillery/mortar support dropping into the small entry area. There was no tactics on maps like that.... |
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I know you are trying to present what you believe to be the truth concerning these titles. |
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PJ I remember also had a way to address this for his Stalingrad mods besides the smaller maps, don't recall exactly what he did. |
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I´m not speaking about what I believe. I speak about believe the players. |
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I do not speak about lose or not $30, but most of the GTC titles are more expensive than $30. However, I have bought most of them. |
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But I was speaking about three problems from the game. |
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-Bad IA. |
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-Bad multiplayer. |
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-Very few players. |
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If Manoi wants ignore all these three points very good. But at least as DJ says, he can try improve some of them with smaller maps. With smaller maps, he would fix the two first points. |
DAK_Legion wrote (View Post): |
PJ said.....you are an american fat...... |
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I have never paid more than $30 for any modern CC title. Perhpas you need self discipline or therapy or both. |
Nomada_Firefox wrote (View Post): |
Even the old CCMT cost more of $30. http://www.matrixgames.com/products/350/details/Close.Combat.-.Modern.Tactics. |
johnsilver wrote (View Post): | ||
Hi DJ, Yeah, PJ and Selhexe were talking about that on one of the OLD Stalingrad post/topics long ago and PJ posted how he did it, it was when PJ went ballistic over Selhexe making that vetmod for DK. Digging up that topic should find the answer. Werf |
Manoi wrote (View Post): |
Patch 1.02 for GTC is available. I think (and I hope) there are no more excuses to continue the mod now.
I will begin a new thread about Angriff! in the GTC section. |
Nomada_Firefox wrote (View Post): |
Now perhaps you can delete the multiplayer problem from the equation but you should value the IA problem with big maps. |
Manoi wrote (View Post): | ||
I will limit the size. Maybe no small maps as CC4 but more medium maps that allow flanking moves. |
Nomada_Firefox wrote (View Post): | ||||
Just two points, first this is a close combat and second the IA will not flank you, never. |
Manoi wrote (View Post): |
the problem is to find a compromise between single and multiplayer. |
Manoi wrote (View Post): | ||||||
the problem is to find a compromise between single and multiplayer. |
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Single players should choose CC2, CC3, COI, or CCMT and avoid CC4, CC5, WAR, TLD, LSA, PitF, and GTC. |
johnsilver wrote (View Post): | ||
There is a theme at play there and it goes beyond small/large maps. |
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Perhaps, I just don't have the energy to get that determined, one way or another.
With not too much work, a single player could put CC5 in play by cutting down a few maps and re-locating the corresponding victory locations. |
dj wrote (View Post): |
Listen, we ran numerous surveys in the past and the majority of people prefer Single Player vs AI. Not because they don't like Muliti-player / H2H, it is because they have issues with networks, security, slow internet connection, they are not allowed to use employer's PC to dial-in to game networks, etc. Or people are just too busy and only have time to play quick 15 minute battle.
Yes I think only the original CC2, CC3 and maybe CC4 are the only games suitable as is for AI gameplay. Ever since CC5 it has fallen off a cliff and AI has only gotten worse with the re-writes. Some mods are barely playable against AI but not many. |
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CC producers, developers, and modders, have simply ignored the modern trends to single player game play. |
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“There’s more problems with the old engine than Close Combat fans realise, probably,” McNeil says. “The UI, for example, is completely impenetrable. Place a first-time player in front of Close Combat 3 today. It will probably be 10 minutes before they get a rifle team to move.” |
Nomada_Firefox wrote (View Post): |
How many maps do you go to add? how have you avoided the limits from GTC? because clearly some rows are set forever for some settings and if you move them, it will give you errors. In fact, I´m not sure if more maps, arrows and connections than the original can be added. Less, probably yes but more........who knows.....because I do not know at this moment. Other question. Do you use the Bloody First map editor for your maps? Steve told how it can export a image from the terrain and other from the objets for improve manually the maps. But I suppose how it can be used for other CC maps. |
Nomada_Firefox wrote (View Post): |
You do not know the true and you are being too hard. You should read more..... |
Stwa wrote (View Post): |
Matrix as a business is very successful and they will not be made or broken based on the performance of the various CC titles. |
Nomada_Firefox wrote (View Post): | ||
...if you had read the interview, the unique interview about Bloody First. You had read this.
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Ivan_Zaitzev wrote (View Post): |
Maybe you should take your discussion to another topic and leave this one for the Stalingrad mod. |
Manoi wrote (View Post): |
I will begin a new thread about Angriff! in the GTC section.
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Stwa wrote (View Post): |
The options for the producers were as follows: Use smaller maps, re-code the AI, or attract multi players back to the CC franchise. Using smaller maps is not an option because in so doing you break the campaign game. But if you use large maps, that breaks the AI. So, the only solution left is more multi players. |
Stwa wrote (View Post): |
The options for the producers were as follows: Use smaller maps, re-code the AI, or attract multi players back to the CC franchise. Using smaller maps is not an option because in so doing you break the campaign game. But if you use large maps, that breaks the AI. So, the only solution left is more multi players. |
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Published on 1 DEC 2010 12:14pm by Scott Parrino
WG: For Steve, were there any big hurdles to clear in programming when doing the remakes of the older Close Combat titles? Steve: The biggest programming challenge is the size and age of the Close Combat code base. This is a game engine that is some 15 years old now, has been through roughly a dozen major releases, and has been worked on by a lot of different developers over the years. There is a fair bit of baggage, as the engine was originally designed for Mac and Windows cross-platform development, and there are some design compromises, as it needed to perform well, in real-time, on the hardware available 15 years ago. So fitting new features into the existing structure can be a challenge, and some of the existing components can be tricky to modify. As a result it’s sometimes preferable to just re-write a whole component from scratch, and of course this takes extra time. |
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I don't use the TBF editor for some reasons, I think it's not the best tool to make 2D maps even if it is possible. I' working with blender and photoshop. |
Stwa wrote (View Post): |
The options for the producers were as follows: Use smaller maps, re-code the AI, or attract multi players back to the CC franchise. Using smaller maps is not an option because in so doing you break the campaign game. But if you use large maps, that breaks the AI. So, the only solution left is more multi players. |
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